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Author Topic: Change in Commission Structure for *ALL* 123RF.com Contributors  (Read 49250 times)

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helix7

« Reply #225 on: February 15, 2012, 11:30 »
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Not sure I'm entirely doing the math right here, but based on recent months earnings and projecting for the rest of this year, I will likely drop to either 40% or 45%. Thanks, 123RF.

Guess what Alex, if you guys are having trouble getting profits up, it has nothing to do with us. Your suggestion to just work harder and build up a better portfolio is offensive at best, downright ignorant at worst. There is nothing wrong with my workflow, my style of images, and certainly not my productivity as evidenced by steady growth at most agencies and huge growth at SS and a few others. For lack of a better phrase, "it's not me, it's you."

I won't leave 123RF because of a 45% rate. I won't even leave because of the meager earnings you guys manage to generate with my work (you're near the bottom of the list every month out of the 20 agencies I work with). But I can easily justify a loss of just 1% of my monthly microstock earnings and cut you guys loose based on that slap-in-the-face response, and that I need to "build up a solid portfolio."

Unbelievable. Thanks for getting me all pissed off on what was an otherwise nice Wednesday morning.


« Reply #226 on: February 15, 2012, 11:36 »
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Price changes are very sensitive, we cannot just raise prices willy nilly. But we will take things under advisement and we'll improve from day to day.

Alex,

Why are you setting your sites so low?  You've got 10.5 months to work hard and build up a reputation amongst buyers that can separate you from the rest and justify a "Willy Nilly" price increase.  Have faith in yourself.  Heck, you will even have video to offer! 

Mat

« Reply #227 on: February 15, 2012, 11:40 »
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Dear 123, on behalf of all microstock photographers - you are very welcome.  

You were nothing when we met.  I take pride in the fact that I made you who you are today.   I told all my friends about you and they grew to love and trust you, and now I look like a fool.  Because of my faith in you, you earned a share of the market that grows day by day while notable competitors exhibit signs of self-destruction.  We did this together -- you and me.  I invested a significant amount of money into my tools to supply you with a pefect collection that you boast as your own.  

Today I am hurt and confused.  What have I done wrong?  Why don't you love me any more?  Has success made you arrogant and caused us to drift apart?  Do you need a salary raise at my expense?  Do you need a new boat?  Tell me what is going on, we are partners.  I made a committment to you.  What exactly do you intend to do with MORE.  You haven't explained.  

It would hurt to part ways, but face it - I don't need you to survive.  

Can you survive without me?

« Reply #228 on: February 15, 2012, 11:48 »
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Will the strategy work?  Time will tell, but as a business person, you have to see there is logic in it.

seriously.. why havent you answered to my "questions".. why it is FAIR what 123RF is doing? name me the agencies to blame

« Reply #229 on: February 15, 2012, 12:11 »
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Will the strategy work?  Time will tell, but as a business person, you have to see there is logic in it.


seriously.. why havent you answered to my "questions".. why it is FAIR what 123RF is doing? name me the agencies to blame


Edited.  No point.

This answer is better: http://kotaku.com/358523/someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 12:14 by stockmarketer »

« Reply #230 on: February 15, 2012, 12:17 »
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Will the strategy work?  Time will tell, but as a business person, you have to see there is logic in it.


seriously.. why havent you answered to my "questions".. why it is FAIR what 123RF is doing? name me the agencies to blame


Edited.  No point.

This answer is better: http://kotaku.com/358523/someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet


dude you are a BLAST! you entered this topic saying the blame is joining small agencies, this and that.. now you step out :D

« Reply #231 on: February 15, 2012, 12:25 »
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Well said, Pixart! Bravo!

« Reply #232 on: February 15, 2012, 12:51 »
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Hi everyone,

The new commission structure is up. You can read it as you log into 123RF and the structure is right below the captcha entry.

I thank you for your patience and for those who have afforded us some amount of faith - I personally thank you very much. I am open to all questions and I promise to answer each and every one. As usual we'll be upfront about things.

All I can say is, allow our track record to speak for itself. We came from humble beginnings have outlasted quite a few agencies and we aren't stopping our growth. I do apologize for dismal review times, I acknowledge we're a bit slow but we're hammering out the videos platform this month, our attention is focused there somewhat.

We are making quite a number of changes most importantly - we've been given the go ahead to expand the operations department threefold. I believe in about 2 months time, long review times will be a thing of the past.

I welcome your questions.... As usual :)

Alex.


To recap you will be expanding your operations department threefold "At Our Expense"!  Soon we will be seeing job postings bragging about stellar company benefit packages while we suffer the consequences.

I do not know about the rest of this bunch but I am sick to the bones at seeing others benefit at my expense. http://www.microstockgroup.com/shutterstock-com/day-in-the-life-jon-oringer-wsj-slideshow/

Our costs continue to rise, the companies are doing well, they are hiring and yet our standard of living continues to deteriorate.

Pathetic and dispicable!

« Reply #233 on: February 15, 2012, 12:56 »
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To recap you will be expanding your operations department threefold "At Our Expense"!  Soon we will be seeing job postings bragging about stellar company benefit packages while we suffer the consequences.

I do not know about the rest of this bunch but I am sick to the bones at seeing others benefit at my expense. http://www.microstockgroup.com/shutterstock-com/day-in-the-life-jon-oringer-wsj-slideshow/

Our costs continue to rise, the companies are doing well, they are hiring and yet our standard of living continues to deteriorate.

Pathetic and dispicable!


So it has finally happened.  The "Occupy Wall Street" mentality has officially set up camp outside the walls of "Big Microstock."

« Reply #234 on: February 15, 2012, 13:00 »
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To recap you will be expanding your operations department threefold "At Our Expense"!  Soon we will be seeing job postings bragging about stellar company benefit packages while we suffer the consequences.

I do not know about the rest of this bunch but I am sick to the bones at seeing others benefit at my expense. http://www.microstockgroup.com/shutterstock-com/day-in-the-life-jon-oringer-wsj-slideshow/

Our costs continue to rise, the companies are doing well, they are hiring and yet our standard of living continues to deteriorate.

Pathetic and dispicable!


So it has finally happened.  The "Occupy Wall Street" mentality has officially set up camp outside the walls of "Big Microstock."


why are you so happy about your 2% increase? LOL

« Reply #235 on: February 15, 2012, 13:22 »
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@stockmarketer: Not sure how you get any parallel between the Occupy movement and complaints about agencies changing the split between contributors and agency.

We create what the agencies sell. They don't direct, fund, own (and sometimes barely market) our product. Complaints about predatory moves by agencies are more like the sports lockouts, SAG and writer's guild actions or any actor's or writer's complaint about their agent. The agencies wouldn't exist without us, but we need them for the storefront for our work. There's no "down with the rich" stuff in our complaints, but there is anger (justified IMO) in these unilateral, non-negotiated changes in terms which - no surprise - solely benefit the agency and not contributors.

Adding more reviewers isn't going to sell more product. 123rf would have to be pouring that money into doubling the sales volume before I'd be interested in talking about handing over more money to them.

« Reply #236 on: February 15, 2012, 13:44 »
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@stockmarketer: Not sure how you get any parallel between the Occupy movement and complaints about agencies changing the split between contributors and agency.

We create what the agencies sell. They don't direct, fund, own (and sometimes barely market) our product. Complaints about predatory moves by agencies are more like the sports lockouts, SAG and writer's guild actions or any actor's or writer's complaint about their agent. The agencies wouldn't exist without us, but we need them for the storefront for our work. There's no "down with the rich" stuff in our complaints, but there is anger (justified IMO) in these unilateral, non-negotiated changes in terms which - no surprise - solely benefit the agency and not contributors.

Adding more reviewers isn't going to sell more product. 123rf would have to be pouring that money into doubling the sales volume before I'd be interested in talking about handing over more money to them.

I agree with the above!

stockmarketer name one business that is happy with stagnant or worse yet decreases in royalty rates while their own costs of doing business rises across the board!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 13:46 by gbalex »

lisafx

« Reply #237 on: February 15, 2012, 13:59 »
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Unlike, apparently, most others in this thread, I am having trouble determining where I would fall in the hierarchy.  And to be honest, not sure how much time I should devote to figuring it out. 

What I do know is that the very notion of RC credits makes me want to vomit.  You guys at 123RF have picked the WRONG example to emulate.  Hope you figure that out before 2013. 

PaulieWalnuts

  • You talkin' to me?
« Reply #238 on: February 15, 2012, 14:17 »
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Today I am hurt and confused.  What have I done wrong?  Why don't you love me any more?  

You haven't done anything wrong. But you have confused a personal relationship (love and trust) with a business relationship (financials and leverage).

Whenever a business has leverage over something (employees, distributors, etc) it will almost always take advantage of the leverage to optimize its financials.

I'm going to repeat this again and I hope someone is paying attention. Bookmark this. You are all slowly being herded herding yourselves toward Shutterstock with your "support the fair" mentality. When you all end up in the SS corral, they will have the absolute maximum leverage to make changes that inflict massive damage to contributors. I'm not saying they will. I would like to hope that they won't but history suggests otherwise.

« Reply #239 on: February 15, 2012, 14:26 »
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I'm going to repeat this again and I hope someone is paying attention. Bookmark this. You are all slowly being herded herding yourselves toward Shutterstock with your "support the fair" mentality. When you all end up in the SS corral, they will have the absolute maximum leverage to make changes that inflict massive damage to contributors. I'm not saying they will. I would like to hope that they won't but history suggests otherwise.

Mooo!!!!

lisafx

« Reply #240 on: February 15, 2012, 14:32 »
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Okay, just did the math.  Based on 2011 numbers, I am in the 50% category, but the low end.  No chance of getting higher up, but a real chance of slipping down.  Just like Istock, I am hanging on to the rate I have earned, but just barely, and for how long? 

Paulie, I definitely get what you are saying, but do you really think Istock exclusivity offers any better protection? 

« Reply #241 on: February 15, 2012, 14:35 »
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Today I am hurt and confused.  What have I done wrong?  Why don't you love me any more?  

You haven't done anything wrong. But you have confused a personal relationship (love and trust) with a business relationship (financials and leverage).

Whenever a business has leverage over something (employees, distributors, etc) it will almost always take advantage of the leverage to optimize its financials.

I'm going to repeat this again and I hope someone is paying attention. Bookmark this. You are all slowly being herded herding yourselves toward Shutterstock with your "support the fair" mentality. When you all end up in the SS corral, they will have the absolute maximum leverage to make changes that inflict massive damage to contributors. I'm not saying they will. I would like to hope that they won't but history suggests otherwise.

I think SS is already making those changes, we are just too trusting to notice!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 14:40 by gbalex »

« Reply #242 on: February 15, 2012, 14:53 »
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Okay, just did the math.  Based on 2011 numbers, I am in the 50% category, but the low end.  No chance of getting higher up, but a real chance of slipping down.  Just like Istock, I am hanging on to the rate I have earned, but just barely, and for how long?  

Paulie, I definitely get what you are saying, but do you really think Istock exclusivity offers any better protection?  


I realize I may be perceived as biased (one of the "bitter ex girlfriends" as an exclusive with a tart tongue described us), but entering iStock exclusivity at the moment is career suicide.

Staying exclusive is a different issue, and for a newbie with nothing much to lose, I wouldn't advise exclusivity, but I don't think it matters much one way or the other.

Lisa, I will personally come and tear apart your fence (I hear Florida weather's nice this time of year) if you even give a nanosecond's thought to exclusivity at this point!

I do realize that having any agency become more powerful doesn't help contributors much in the long run if that agency uses the power in an anti-contributor fashion. However, at the moment we have to play the hand we have, not the one we think we should have in a fair and just universe.

It's sort of an aside, but there's some very interesting reading in a boycott of a large and apparently greedy journal publisher, Elsevier, by the academics who volunteer as editors for the journals. See the blog that started it all, a NY Times article about it yesterday and other coverage here and here.

The situations aren't directly comparable, but this does talk about the possibility of opening up new avenues to disseminate journals - especially as almost all the work is done by people other than the journal publishers and distribution in print is no longer as important as it was - more than changing the behavior of the existing publisher. I think my point is that sometimes things can change - just as iStock changed things way back when it started and before it became assimilated into the Borg :)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 14:57 by jsnover »

« Reply #243 on: February 15, 2012, 15:15 »
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Okay, just did the math.  Based on 2011 numbers, I am in the 50% category, but the low end.  No chance of getting higher up, but a real chance of slipping down.  Just like Istock, I am hanging on to the rate I have earned, but just barely, and for how long? 

Paulie, I definitely get what you are saying, but do you really think Istock exclusivity offers any better protection? 

Did I miss something? Aren't most of us grandfathered into 50% (for now)?

CD123

« Reply #244 on: February 15, 2012, 15:21 »
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Well it seems like the old saying stays true, if you want loyalty get a dog. Have been rooting for you all the way up to now - getting the dog tomorrow.  >:(

rubyroo

« Reply #245 on: February 15, 2012, 15:23 »
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Did I miss something? Aren't most of us grandfathered into 50% (for now)?

Yes you missed something.

No we're not (any more).

If you refer back to messages #159 and #160 in this thread, you'll see the grim news.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 15:25 by rubyroo »

« Reply #246 on: February 15, 2012, 15:23 »
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Did I miss something? Aren't most of us grandfathered into 50% (for now)?
Yes, you did miss something.  It's based on royalty credits (man I loathe that phrase) in 2013.  Yes, I know - after the end of the world in December and all that so what am I getting excited about?

« Reply #247 on: February 15, 2012, 15:28 »
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Whenever a business has leverage over something (employees, distributors, etc) it will almost always take advantage of the leverage to optimize its financials.

The HUGE, glaring difference between this move by 123rf and other sites that have made similar moves is that 123rf doesn't have the leverage you have referred to Paulie.  

I know I've only got around 1,000 images in my port there so I'm not one of their big shooters by any stretch of the imagination but still at 1,000 pics I have yet to earn even $40 in a month.  Based on all the love and hype for 123rf seen in so many threads here, my expectations were far higher.  As a result, if asked what I think about 123rf my answer would be "I don't."  

The drop in commission equates to very few real dollars for me at this point.  The devaluation of my images by offering them so cheap could be far more costly.  

« Reply #248 on: February 15, 2012, 15:36 »
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Agencies seem to have only three goals as it comes to contributors these days:

-Keep back new contributors from joining
-Discourage contributors who want to learn, work hard and steadily build up a good portfolio
-Drive away experienced and high selling contributors to the macros and to search other and new ways to sell their work

Well, I suppose they can spill their lifeblood as they wishat least for the time being.

« Reply #249 on: February 15, 2012, 15:51 »
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At my current sell through rate I'll need at least 2500 images to keep my current royalty percentage.  It took me three years to get 1250 images approved and will probably take me another three years to get the second half (I do have a day job).  123 should honor their previous statements and grandfather the royalty rate for established contributors who's work helped their site grow and survive.  

Microstock InsiderPhotoDune

 

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