Author Topic: Alamy Creativity? (Read 23086 times)

Ed · « **on:** May 14, 2012, 19:33 »

This came up on the Alamy Forum. Anyone heard of the agency "Alamy Creativity"? There appears to be close to 350,000 images in this "Agency" collection and they appear to be images of micro contributors (Elena, AndresR, Phakimata, PancakeTom, etc)

Here's a link to the Agency Images on the site => http://tinyurl.com/6sqv48f

Ed · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2012, 19:42 »

This is a bit suspicious to me....from the perspective that it appears to be an agency that is re-marketing images. The issue I have is Alamy licenses images at higher fees than the micros...are these fees being reported back to us at a decent return or are we getting the short end of the stick? These aren't just top contributors - these are contributors with portfolios of all sizes.

traveler1116 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2012, 19:46 »

Nevermind

RacePhoto · « **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2012, 22:36 »

Quote from: traveler1116 on May 14, 2012, 19:46

Nevermind

Alamy "Creative Collection" nothing new, select people, 2010

http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/1647676/alamy-launches-creative-collection-unveils-look-update

The rest is just a search using that name? AT least that's what it looks like to me?

sharpshot · « **Reply #4 on:** May 15, 2012, 03:14 »

It's not the creative collection. Looks like one of the microstock sites is uploading to alamy. Could it be 123rf? They really need to stop duplicates, as we earn much less selling through a microstock site because they take their cut.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #5 on:** May 15, 2012, 03:27 »

I don't think it is 123, it doesn't seem to have my images there which pretty much rules out the top eight in the poll result list.

sharpshot · « **Reply #6 on:** May 15, 2012, 03:39 »

I was guessing by the pseudonym they have for my photos there. I also use it with Veer, do you use them?

fotografer · « **Reply #7 on:** May 15, 2012, 05:03 »

Photos go to Alamy through Zoonar if you opt them in.

Ed · « **Reply #8 on:** May 15, 2012, 08:32 »

Quote from: fotografer on May 15, 2012, 05:03

Photos go to Alamy through Zoonar if you opt them in.

Zoonar has it's own psuedonym with 67,400 images. This is a bit strange.

click_click · « **Reply #9 on:** May 15, 2012, 08:49 »

Anyone can create any pseudonym as often as they like.

I can create a pseudonym called Mercedes or IBM. Even other contributors can create pseudonyms with the same names like mine.

It's very confusing.

ShadySue · « **Reply #10 on:** May 15, 2012, 09:54 »

Spomeone has posted on the Alamy forum that at least one of the files is also available from Stockfresh (at about 1/100th of the price); don't know if that's a helpful clue.

sharpshot · « **Reply #11 on:** May 15, 2012, 10:07 »

I didn't opt in to alamy with Zoonar and it's not Stockfresh, because my photos come under a name that I don't use there. I asked alamy and they wont let me know who it is, as pseudonyms are confidential. The site I still think it could be is Veer but would they use alamy when they are part of Corbis?

pancaketom · « **Reply #12 on:** May 15, 2012, 10:53 »

My guess is Veer, since it looks like there are images of mine there that I don't think are on 123RF or Stockfresh. I wish that they wouldn't strip out the copyright not to mention I'd rather sell it through Alamy myself and get 60% instead of whatever I would get through the second hand sale - 30% of 60% = 20% of the original price. It would be nice if Alamy could let me remove the duplicates - but then again as far as they are concerned maybe they'd let "creative collection" delete my images.

Frustrating to see this happening. I wonder how long before some site puts our stuff on all the other microstock sites.

Ed · « **Reply #13 on:** May 15, 2012, 11:14 »

Quote from: pancaketom on May 15, 2012, 10:53

Frustrating to see this happening. I wonder how long before some site puts our stuff on all the other microstock sites.

The frustrating part of this is I contribute to other image collections that also pull images from Alamy. As an example, I contribute to Inmagine...Inmagine pulls 123RF images onto their site and markets them at a lower price point. Inmagine also pulls images from Alamy to market to their premium collection. As a contributor to Inmagine, if I upload images that are also on micros, they will delete my portfolio per my contractual agreement.

So...I could upload an image onto Veer and 123RF. That image could potentially be added to the lower price point collection at Inmagine. If that image is at (presumabley Veer) another micro agency that markets also through Alamy, Inmagine can unknowingly add that image from Alamy as a "premium image". So...the end result is I could have that same image selling at two different price points at the same agency.

Fred · « **Reply #14 on:** May 15, 2012, 12:01 »

Quote from: pancaketom on May 15, 2012, 10:53

My guess is Veer, since it looks like there are images of mine there that I don't think are on 123RF or Stockfresh. I wish that they wouldn't strip out the copyright not to mention I'd rather sell it through Alamy myself and get 60% instead of whatever I would get through the second hand sale - 30% of 60% = 20% of the original price. It would be nice if Alamy could let me remove the duplicates - but then again as far as they are concerned maybe they'd let "creative collection" delete my images.

Frustrating to see this happening. I wonder how long before some site puts our stuff on all the other microstock sites.

I'm guessing Veer. I don't have an Alamy or Stockfresh account but some of the 47 of mine that show up in Alamy Creativity are only on Veer and Bigstock.

lff

click_click · « **Reply #15 on:** May 15, 2012, 13:10 »

Quote from: Fred on May 15, 2012, 12:01

I'm guessing Veer. I don't have an Alamy or Stockfresh account but some of the 47 of mine that show up in Alamy Creativity are only on Veer and Bigstock.
lff

I'm on Alamy and with all "major" micros including Veer, Bigstock, 123RF, Stockfresh etc. and my images don't show up in the Creativity pseudonym.

This is getting fishy.

ShadySue · « **Reply #16 on:** May 15, 2012, 13:53 »

I tried a few at random via GIS. Well, not total random: I picked images that would be easy to match.
Some had no matches.
1 was found on 123RF.
2 on Shutterstock and YayMicro
1 on a site I'd never heard of called colourbox
1 at Stockfresh and Shutterstock
1 on 123RF, Graphic Leftovers and Shutterstock
1 on 123RF and Shutterstock

I'm not sure if any conclusion would be reached by checking more.

click_click · « **Reply #17 on:** May 15, 2012, 14:03 »

I did find a couple of mine in the Creativity section now but they do not show up in my regular pseudonym, where they technically should be.

I'm not sure if this is to prevent duplicates in their collection but it's pretty weird that clients would not be able to find these images in my pseudonym, just because Alamy moved them into a different collection...

Fred · « **Reply #18 on:** May 15, 2012, 15:12 »

Quote from: click_click on May 15, 2012, 13:10

Quote from: Fred on May 15, 2012, 12:01
I'm guessing Veer. I don't have an Alamy or Stockfresh account but some of the 47 of mine that show up in Alamy Creativity are only on Veer and Bigstock.
lff
I'm on Alamy and with all "major" micros including Veer, Bigstock, 123RF, Stockfresh etc. and my images don't show up in the Creativity pseudonym.

This is getting fishy.

Even if it is Veer the selected 47 on Alamy Creativity have nothing else in common that I can figure out. They are not good sellers (most have never sold on Veer at all) not subject matter (animals, scenic, objects etc. are in the 47). Selection looks random.

fred

pancaketom · « **Reply #19 on:** May 15, 2012, 19:01 »

I checked with Veer and they confirmed that it was a new partner (and they hadn't realized it had gone live yet).

I wonder how Alamy feels about the duplicated content? - and how much less we get for a sale through this channel.

click_click · « **Reply #20 on:** May 15, 2012, 20:06 »

Quote from: pancaketom on May 15, 2012, 19:01

I checked with Veer and they confirmed that it was a new partner (and they hadn't realized it had gone live yet).

I wonder how Alamy feels about the duplicated content? - and how much less we get for a sale through this channel.

So you're saying that Veer is supplying Alamy?

I can't see any of my Veer content at Alamy.

I only see certain, already uploaded Alamy content moved away from my pseudonym into the Creativity pseudonym.

This is still confusing.

Pixart · « **Reply #21 on:** May 15, 2012, 20:34 »

It looks like I have 143 photos but only about 300 keywords. Where . did all the keywords go? Can't imagine much getting purchased with 1-3 keywords.

pancaketom · « **Reply #22 on:** May 15, 2012, 23:57 »

Quote from: Pixart on May 15, 2012, 20:34

It looks like I have 143 photos but only about 300 keywords. Where . did all the keywords go? Can't imagine much getting purchased with 1-3 keywords.

I wonder how they are dealing w/ the keywords. Maybe slap the first chunk into field one, then the next heap into field 2, and then any remaining in the last field - I don't think you can see all the keywords of the images, maybe only the 3rd field. I am not sure, I could be wrong.

I doubt that Veer is spending heaps of time carefully listing the most important keywords etc. though, so it is probably going to be a bit random which keywords go where if they do it at all.

I just checked one of my images and it comes up in a search for words that aren't in the 3 listed, so there are more somewhere - it seems that when I look at the images I uploaded it only shows 3 or so keywords too. At least they are listed at the same price. I wonder if Alamy Creativity is available for Novel Use?

It does seem to open up a mess of questions.

sharpshot · « **Reply #23 on:** May 16, 2012, 02:08 »

As alamy don't deal with duplicates, can we opt out of supplying alamy through Veer? I haven't uploaded much of my microstock portfolio to alamy but I will now. I would rather get 60% commission than 20%.

RT · « **Reply #24 on:** May 16, 2012, 02:10 »

Well unless Veer allow us to opt out of this deal I'll be removing my portfolio from them.

edit:

Just found this on Veers contributor FAQ -

Can I opt out of the API?
No. At this time, all registered Veer contributors are automatically opted in to the partner program.

I've emailed them to confirm whether or not we can opt out.

If not it's goodbye Veer from me.

For info for anybody else that doesn't want their Veer portfolio on Alamy, from the Veer contributor agreement:

A. Contributor may terminate this Agreement at any time by providing Veer with thirty (30) days notice by
using the Contact Us page to provide notice to Veer or by following the written notice provision below.

D. Upon termination of this Agreement:
(i) Veer will remove your Content from the Site within a thirty (30) day period, and will use reasonable
efforts to cause Content to be removed from the Sites of any affiliates and partners within sixty (60) days
from the removal from the Site, provided, however, that Veer may retain a copy of your Content for
archival and record-keeping purposes. Contributor acknowledges and agrees that Veer, its affiliates and
partners may continue to license the Content in accordance with this Agreement until the Content is so
removed.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #25 on:** May 16, 2012, 03:03 »

Quote from: sharpshot on May 16, 2012, 02:08

As alamy don't deal with duplicates, can we opt out of supplying alamy through Veer? I haven't uploaded much of my microstock portfolio to alamy but I will now. I would rather get 60% commission than 20%.

Is that 20% of 100% or 20% of 60%, which = 12%?

RT · « **Reply #26 on:** May 16, 2012, 03:18 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on May 16, 2012, 03:03

Is that 20% of 100% or 20% of 60%, which = 12%?

Whatever the percentage one thing is absolutely clear - you'll make a lot less money selling your content on Alamy through Veer than you would by selling it there yourself.

As someone pointed out above after Alamy where else are Veer going to sell your stuff? iStock, Shutterstock, DT, FT - allow them to get away with this and soon you could be getting a small cut of a small percentage on all the microstock sites with your portfolio removed under your own name.

hjalmeida · « **Reply #27 on:** May 16, 2012, 03:32 »

If Veer don't give us a choice, i will leave Veer.

But are you sure that is only Veer? i found one of my photos twice on the Creative Colection (+1 in my colection).

Paulo M. F. Pires · « **Reply #28 on:** May 16, 2012, 04:41 »

Concerning duplicates...

Actually I've 453 files on Alamy, and none of them are on creative collection. On Veer I have less than 400 files, and I'm sure they are the same on both sides.

So, images previously sent trough Alamy will be replaced by veer "similar"?

Wim · « **Reply #29 on:** May 16, 2012, 04:53 »

But the fact that we sell our micro images at macro prices does not concern you guys?

rubyroo · « **Reply #30 on:** May 16, 2012, 05:18 »

@ Wim

When uploading to Alamy, you have to tell them whether the image is to be sold as RM or RF.

RF on Alamy does not sell at RM prices.

ShadySue · « **Reply #31 on:** May 16, 2012, 05:23 »

Quote from: rubyroo on May 16, 2012, 05:18

@ Wim

When uploading to Alamy, you have to tell them whether the image is to be sold as RM or RF.

RF on Alamy does not sell at RM prices.

Indeed: it can often be more, depending on usage, and depending on negotiated discounts for certain RM usages.

RT · « **Reply #32 on:** May 16, 2012, 05:30 »

Quote from: Wim on May 16, 2012, 04:53

But the fact that we sell our micro images at macro prices does not concern you guys?

Same image different license, hence the price difference. it's not much different to selling the same image across all the microstock sites, each charges a different fee.

However - we are not selling images, we are selling a license to use an image. The standard Alamy RF license is the equivalent to most microstock sites enhanced license where in many cases it's more expensive than buying the from Alamy.

rubyroo · « **Reply #33 on:** May 16, 2012, 05:45 »

Agreeing with Sue and RT here.

As long as we have done nothing wrong (contractually or ethically), there's no problem. It's entirely up to the agency how they licence or price the imagery, and we can't control that.

Wim · « **Reply #34 on:** May 16, 2012, 06:03 »

Quote from: ShadySue on May 16, 2012, 05:23

Quote from: rubyroo on May 16, 2012, 05:18
@ Wim

When uploading to Alamy, you have to tell them whether the image is to be sold as RM or RF.

RF on Alamy does not sell at RM prices.

Indeed: it can often be more, depending on usage, and depending on negotiated discounts for certain RM usages.

I have my micro (and macro) port at Alamy, an RF at Alamy sells for much more than an EL on micro.

RT · « **Reply #35 on:** May 16, 2012, 06:20 »

Quote from: Wim on May 16, 2012, 06:03

I have my micro (and macro) port at Alamy, an RF at Alamy sells for much more than an EL on micro.

An EL on iS covering all possibilities (minus their worthless 'legal guarantee') will cost you $450 (GBP £280 approx) , all of that's included in the standard Alamy RF license which at full price would cost you £210. Don't the Alamy USD figure as I'm in the UK and I get prices in GBP.

Admittedly iS are one of the most expensive micros, but they're also the market leader, and don't forget Alamy discount many of their fees at the drop of the hat, either way the price difference to a buyer on a like for like basis between micro and Alamy is not the difference most people think. From a contributors point of view the price difference is huge as Alamy pay a respectful 60% commission and micros, as we all know, pay a heck of a lot less.

qwerty · « **Reply #36 on:** May 16, 2012, 06:49 »

extended licence on photodune ?

Karimala · « **Reply #37 on:** May 16, 2012, 09:05 »

Quote from: sharpshot on May 15, 2012, 10:07

I didn't opt in to alamy with Zoonar and it's not Stockfresh, because my photos come under a name that I don't use there. I asked alamy and they wont let me know who it is, as pseudonyms are confidential. The site I still think it could be is Veer but would they use alamy when they are part of Corbis?

Yes. Corbis actually has a collection at Alamy.

ShadySue · « **Reply #38 on:** May 16, 2012, 09:14 »

Quote from: RT on May 16, 2012, 06:20

Quote from: Wim on May 16, 2012, 06:03
I have my micro (and macro) port at Alamy, an RF at Alamy sells for much more than an EL on micro.

An EL on iS covering all possibilities (minus their worthless 'legal guarantee') will cost you $450 (GBP £280 approx) , all of that's included in the standard Alamy RF license which at full price would cost you £210. Don't the Alamy USD figure as I'm in the UK and I get prices in GBP.

Admittedly iS are one of the most expensive micros, but they're also the market leader, and don't forget Alamy discount many of their fees at the drop of the hat, either way the price difference to a buyer on a like for like basis between micro and Alamy is not the difference most people think. From a contributors point of view the price difference is huge as Alamy pay a respectful 60% commission and micros, as we all know, pay a heck of a lot less.

But iStock also frequently have discount codes, which are disseminated over the web, even if they're only supposed to be for if you tried to get in when the site was down. Plus they have big buyers who can negotiate down from the minimum quoted on the buy credits page. Plus, if CR are to believed, there are gazillions of old 10c credits out there from about 2006. So your $450/$280 EL could easily be under half that.

So no way even to estimate an 'average' sale price on either site. It's all smoke and mirrors.

sharpshot · « **Reply #39 on:** May 16, 2012, 17:04 »

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