Author Topic: Alamy strange keywording requirements (Read 31765 times)

Phadrea · « **on:** June 18, 2013, 04:29 »

having just been accepted at Alamy I am finding, even with keywords encrypted into my metadata the file editing is going to be a long long haul. Most sites just require you to select the categories and Bob's your uncle. Alamy require a 3 tier keywording, caption, description AND other info. As this will slow things right down my question is will it be worth it as regard sales and income ? If not I will keep adding here and there. If it isn't as good earner as canstock, DT I won't bother as the latter are poor sellers for me.

fotografer · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2013, 04:39 »

I've been uploading to Alamy for a year now and average just under 100$ a month. I think it's worth the extra effort just to see some of the higher priced sales. Most of my sales have been 29$ or 27$
sales of which I get 40% but I love to see the occasional high one that has given me a couple of hundred commission. I do tend to take a while to go in and finish them off after approval especially as for some reason they never carry all my keywords over so I have to go to the image and get the keywords again.
eta I've just had a look and average commision for me is 18$

Phadrea · « **Reply #2 on:** June 18, 2013, 06:43 »

How many files do you have with them?

sgoodwin4813 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2013, 07:56 »

I've been submitting there for about 1.5 years and have made some sales, but far less than fotographer reported per month. Their system is a nuisance, but not all of those fields are required. I put the most important 7-8 keywords at the front, so it is easy to copy the first 50 characters and put them into the most important keywords (also useful for ft and panthermedia). Just leave the rest in the main keywords, unless they won't fit. Sometimes it reads the title correctly and sometimes not, so I just copy and paste from an Excel spreadsheet when necessary. I mostly ignore all of the other information - not sure if that hurts sales.

When I first started I had a couple of decent sales in the $60-$96 range (my part), but over the past year all of my sales have netted me from 50 cents to a little over $10 each. I am doing en experiment to test whether it is better to submit editorial-type images as RF editorial on the micros or RM Alamy. Different images of course so it's not a direct test but similar subjects often shot on subsequent days. So far RF editorial sells OK on the micros, but no RM sales yet at Alamy. It's still a small sample so will continue for another few months. All of my sales on Alamy have been RF, the same images available on the micros and it's surprising which ones sell.

The additional time to upload to Alamy is small once you get used to their system and the occasional large sale is nice so I think it's worth it. I do make more on CanStock and Dt than on Alamy but have far fewer images - too much trouble to upload all of my older images.

ShadySue · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2013, 08:06 »

Alamy keywording is a major PITA, and it's hard to say if it's worth it, as these are RM files I'm not submitting anywhere else.

You need to be quite careful as although they hae the essential main and others, in fact any combination of keywords can be looked for in a search. Also be aware that words in your caption can also be found in a search. So you can end up having your files found on totally irrelevant search results, which will hit your CTR and thus your Alamy Rank. To some extent, we are all hit this way; but if you can somehow avoid it, your AR will be better.

Phadrea · « **Reply #5 on:** June 18, 2013, 09:32 »

Sounds like it won't be worth it as I only sell RF, not exclusive.

fotografer · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2013, 10:13 »

Quote from: Herg on June 18, 2013, 09:32

Sounds like it won't be worth it as I only sell RF, not exclusive.

Mine are all RF and the same images I upload to all the other sites. My highest sale netted me over 200$ and could have been had from any of a dozen other sites as a sub sale.

ShadySue · « **Reply #7 on:** June 18, 2013, 10:15 »

Quote from: Herg on June 18, 2013, 09:32

Sounds like it won't be worth it as I only sell RF, not exclusive.

RM at Alamy doesn't need to be exclusive, you can also sell the files at any other non-exclusive RM outlet. You just can't sell RM at Alamy and RF elsewhere.

Ron · « **Reply #8 on:** June 18, 2013, 11:36 »

Alamy wrote me an email today and I am just flabbergasted by the secrets they gave away on how to sell more images. I had never thought of this:

How to sell more images

Hi Ronald

The fastest way to improve your chances of making a sale is to check your keywords.
Technique (top tips to get the best out of the system):
•   Use spaces to separate keywords
•   Add plurals if you think they're relevant - flower and flowers
•   Add words with the same meaning - mum, mom and mother
•   Make sure your keywords are relevant (our system is clever - irrelevant keywords will make your images harder to find)
Language (think about the words you’re using):
•   Literally - what's in my image? dog, car, woman, man, child, flower
•   Attributes - what does my image show? happy, calm, young, old
•   Locations - where is my image?
•   Specific - what's my image of? The White House, Washington DC, USA
•   Generic - what's my image of? house, school, office
•   Interaction - what's happening in my image? running, walking, shouting, touching, flying
•   Broad subjects - what's the subject of my image? travel, sport, business, lifestyle, wildlife
•   Techniques - have you used any specific techniques? black and white, digital manipulation, grainy, blurred

And finally, one aspect of keywording that is often overlooked by contributors is:
•   Concepts - moods, emotions and metaphors - heat, power, happiness, strength, humour, teamwork, tranquillity
Think like a buyer! What would you search for?

It is completely beyond me how such a large and professional agency can write me such a overabundant email with absolutely nothing clever to say. Thats an email for the newest of newbies. Not for the type of contributor that submits to Alamy.

stockastic · « **Reply #9 on:** June 18, 2013, 11:52 »

I've never understood Alamy's keywording and description system - the 3 keyword tiers and all that. Too tedious and arcane. I just put all my keywords in 'main', copy a few to 'essential' and hope for the best.

Ron · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2013, 12:17 »

Ever since I started to follow their rules of keywording and had been adding more images, my CTR dropped from around 0.5 to 0.14. So I wont sell a thing ever again there. sales were picking up but it seems my port is completely hidden now. No zooms, no sales.

stockastic · « **Reply #11 on:** June 18, 2013, 15:50 »

Quote from: Ron on June 18, 2013, 12:17

Ever since I started to follow their rules of keywording and had been adding more images, my CTR dropped from around 0.5 to 0.14. So I wont sell a thing ever again there. sales were picking up but it seems my port is completely hidden now. No zooms, no sales.

Their system is now too complicated for the human mind.

Phadrea · « **Reply #12 on:** June 18, 2013, 16:47 »

Why do they need a description twice ? brief description in caption and another description on the next page.

ShadySue · « **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2013, 16:55 »

sgoodwin4813 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2013, 16:57 »

I think it's just if you have more information than will fit into 128 characters. I use it if I have digitally modified an image then I put the modification there in case anyone wants to know. Otherwise just skip it.

ShadySue · « **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2013, 17:14 »

Quote from: sgoodwin4813 on June 18, 2013, 16:57

I think it's just if you have more information than will fit into 128 characters. I use it if I have digitally modified an image then I put the modification there in case anyone wants to know. Otherwise just skip it.

Yes, deleted my too-hasty post above.
Definitely for more information.

Also very useful for news images.
Say you were shooting a crowd waiting for the Queen to appear on the balcony at Buck House.
Your News Caption (which can be much longer than a regular caption) could be something like:
A London crowd of several thousand people surround the Victoria Fountain and spill down the Mall and Constitution hill outside Buckingham Palace in central London, England, UK to see Her Majesty the Queen on the occasion of ....... on (date).
However, Maj isn't actually in the photo, but as it's in the caption, it's searchable by buyers wanting a photo of "The Queen".
So after the event is not longer hot news, it's good to go back in and move the 'bits you can't see' into the description, which isn't searchable.
This would also apply to other explanations about a photo that help to contextualise an image for buyers, but shouldn't be searchable.

I don't use it very often, but it's very useful when I need it!

Sedge · « **Reply #16 on:** June 18, 2013, 18:27 »

For you Alamy experts: what's the best way to keyword a phrase? Take for example a travel photo of Santa Barbara. If you enter the city name as two separate words, I imagine someone searching just for "Santa" wouldn't appreciate having to wade through photos of the city. Do you use quotation marks for keyword phrases on Alamy?

madelaide · « **Reply #17 on:** June 18, 2013, 18:56 »

Quote from: Sedge on June 18, 2013, 18:27

Do you use quotation marks for keyword phrases on Alamy?

When they have an unrelated meaning separately, yes. Like you said, "Santa Barbara". But not, for instance, for Copacabana Beach, as either word is correctly associated with the subject.

However, they don't isolate the phrases. Santa will still be picked, in your example. Perhaps it makes a difference in relevance.

pancaketom · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2013, 21:26 »

At one point they said they would link words together with [] like [santa barbara]. As far as I can tell that never happened. It would be a pain to go back and include that, but it could potentially greatly improve their search.

ann · « **Reply #19 on:** June 19, 2013, 00:19 »

My average commission is rather good, considering the times, and this is probably a big reason why: when potential buyer 'g images' any of my A files, they're available only on my site & perhaps other macro site.

Phadrea · « **Reply #20 on:** June 19, 2013, 08:51 »

If only they let you pre-set the attributes as a tenplate as well as able to copy and paste from images that are similar like Dreamstime lets you do.

Ron · « **Reply #21 on:** June 19, 2013, 09:49 »

Quote from: Herg on June 19, 2013, 08:51

If only they let you pre-set the attributes as a tenplate as well as able to copy and paste from images that are similar like Dreamstime lets you do.

They have a batch editor, which works better then the tedious DT editor

stockastic · « **Reply #22 on:** June 19, 2013, 14:15 »

I just wish they'd fix a few simple things. We're always hearing about big plans, new marketing, suggestions for how contributors could do better; but hey if the site would just put the keywords in 'main' by default- so we didn't have to do that mindless cut-and-paste on every image, every time...

Phadrea · « **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2013, 09:55 »

Well I have nearly 200 images with them but no sales as yet $:-\$

ShadySue · « **Reply #24 on:** June 20, 2013, 10:02 »

Quote from: Herg on June 20, 2013, 09:55

Well I have nearly 200 images with them but no sales as yet $:-\$

I was 8 months and over 800 images before I had a sale.

Phadrea · « **Reply #25 on:** June 20, 2013, 10:26 »

Quote from: ShadySue on June 20, 2013, 10:02

Quote from: Herg on June 20, 2013, 09:55
Well I have nearly 200 images with them but no sales as yet $:-\$
I was 8 months and over 800 images before I had a sale.

And you think the keywording time is worth it ?

ShadySue · « **Reply #26 on:** June 20, 2013, 10:29 »

Quote from: Herg on June 20, 2013, 10:26

Quote from: ShadySue on June 20, 2013, 10:02
Quote from: Herg on June 20, 2013, 09:55
Well I have nearly 200 images with them but no sales as yet $:-\$
I was 8 months and over 800 images before I had a sale.

And you think the keywording time is worth it ?

I very much dislike the process, but hey, what else would I be doing?
It would be easier if the QC time were more predictable, then I could plan out blocks of time; and I'd prefer if it were done at uploading and gets checked by QC; but it gets done when it gets done.

Gannet77 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 20, 2013, 10:30 »

Quote from: Herg on June 20, 2013, 10:26

Quote from: ShadySue on June 20, 2013, 10:02
Quote from: Herg on June 20, 2013, 09:55
Well I have nearly 200 images with them but no sales as yet $:-\$
I was 8 months and over 800 images before I had a sale.

And you think the keywording time is worth it ?

If they can't find them, they can't buy them.

ShadySue · « **Reply #28 on:** June 20, 2013, 10:50 »

Quote from: Herg on June 20, 2013, 10:26

Quote from: ShadySue on June 20, 2013, 10:02
Quote from: Herg on June 20, 2013, 09:55
Well I have nearly 200 images with them but no sales as yet $:-\$
I was 8 months and over 800 images before I had a sale.

And you think the keywording time is worth it ?

Note that Alamy isn't SS - you certainly won't get many quick sales as many people here report for SS.
They have said on here that the sort of images which do well on micro don't 'tend' to do well on Alamy, but of course there are no absolutes.

Phadrea · « **Reply #29 on:** June 21, 2013, 03:24 »

Then I might be in with a chance as I don't do at all well on SS considering they are supposed to be the top earner.

ShadySue · « **Reply #30 on:** June 21, 2013, 05:52 »

Quote from: madelaide on June 18, 2013, 18:56

Quote from: Sedge on June 18, 2013, 18:27
Do you use quotation marks for keyword phrases on Alamy?
When they have an unrelated meaning separately, yes. Like you said, "Santa Barbara". But not, for instance, for Copacabana Beach, as either word is correctly associated with the subject.

However, they don't isolate the phrases. Santa will still be picked, in your example. Perhaps it makes a difference in relevance.

Hard to know about the relevance thing. Not only will it show up for Santa, but let's say you have a photo of the City Hall in Santa Barbara (if there is such a thing). Your photo would also show up in a search for the hypothetical celeb called Barbara Hall.

It can be both educational and frustrating to check your search results. I had one today 'suit cutting'. I know I don't have any tailors, so I checked the image. In the caption I had written "... cutting edge Asian fashion ..." and in Main I had inter alia, punjabi suit. Sometimes that way you can think of a way of rephrasing your caption, but the system will surely find another way of confounding your efforts.

Sometimes you have to wonder what the buyer actually wanted, e.g. "150 years", "Margaret" (can't remember her second name, let's just search all Margarets).

Xanox · « **Reply #31 on:** June 21, 2013, 09:56 »

their system is broken and they know it.

there's just no way to rank 30-40 million images properly, google can do it with trillion of web pages but they rank based on more than 200 different factors and especially who's linking to that specific page etc .. .with photos there's no way to do that, all you can check is the number of views, zooms, and sales but for a lot of queries it will not be useful as you need a decent amount of data to bring decent results.

automatic ranking of images is the most stupidiest idea in the search industry in my opinion and alamy is also suffering from serious keyword spam.

stockastic · « **Reply #32 on:** June 21, 2013, 11:54 »

All the microstocks are coming up against this limitation. There is only so much you can do, to make a retailing business run itself, without actually knowing in detail what's on your shelves. But these companies can't afford to actually look at, keyword and categorize - and rate, for quality and relevance - every photo. Especially not since they've let prices sink down through the floor.

No amount of "AI", heuristics, or clever programming can really produce good search results when they have to rely on contributors doing their own keywording.

Xanox · « **Reply #33 on:** June 21, 2013, 14:01 »

categories are totally irrilevant when you've already dozens of keywords.

i can't believe so many agencies still use categories, what am i supposed to get clicking on category "travel" for instance ? a flood of 10 million random images ? what's the point, and will it ever lead to any sales ?

ShadySue · « **Reply #34 on:** June 21, 2013, 14:03 »

Quote from: Xanox on June 21, 2013, 14:01

categories are totally irrilevant when you've already dozens of keywords.

i can't believe so many agencies still use categories, what am i supposed to get clicking on category "travel" for instance ? a flood of 10 million random images ? what's the point, and will it ever lead to any sales ?

I don't think there are categories on Alamy.

wordplanet · « **Reply #35 on:** June 21, 2013, 15:04 »

RE: Keywording, pricing, CTR:

I've been with Alamy since 2008. Average prices have dropped substantially since then. Sales volume has increased; so has the size of my portfolio. My CTR is usually decent though at times I've seen it dip when something unavoidable happens (like people searching for Christmas images using the term "Santa" and coming up with irrelevant photos of Santa Barbara). It's unfortunate that after many of us spent hours re-keywording our images and putting in terms like [Santa Barbara] on Alamy's announcement that they'd be changing their search engine, Alamy then abandoned the idea. As ShadySue says, keywording is a PITA but currently there's no way around it.

The bulk editor makes it a lot simpler though. You just pull the ones that have similar but not identical words into the bulk uploader and after you replace all words, scroll through them one by one to tweak.

Re: Editorial:

I was invited to join Reportage in its initial incarnation and then to become a News contributor when Live News first started. The CEO invited a bunch of News shooters to meet him down at their Brooklyn office when he was in town, and I was very excited by the prospect. The News Editor has been helpful too in providing letters for me a couple of times so I could get press credentials for events my usual editorial clients wouldn't be interested in, but while I've sold a lot of editorial travel images, I have never sold a news photo there. All my press events have been in the US (though they all had international interest). Acquaintances in the UK who shoot news for them do better.

I've done better making sales on SS with On the Red Carpet for far less interesting events, and as a 3-way comparison, a few years ago I put my best NY Marathon pix on Alamy News and my "seconds" on SS & DT. Those "seconds" have sold around the world and continue to sell on both SS and DT from time to time even a few years later.

Editorial travel sells well on Alamy.

Depends on what you shoot. I'd experiment with news/editorial stuff and see which does better for you.

stockastic · « **Reply #36 on:** June 21, 2013, 15:22 »

I've never paid any attention to the CTR because I didn't think it really mattered. But some of you seem to be saying that it does, and that if it's low it's because your keywording is bad, in some arcane way that would be a PITA to correct.

My average CTR is .77. Is that good or bad? How would I know?

ShadySue · « **Reply #37 on:** June 21, 2013, 16:31 »

Quote from: stockastic on June 21, 2013, 15:22

I've never paid any attention to the CTR because I didn't think it really mattered. But some of you seem to be saying that it does, and that if it's low it's because your keywording is bad, in some arcane way that would be a PITA to correct.

My average CTR is .77. Is that good or bad? How would I know?

Seems the average for the last month is .53.

I give up. My CTR was at almost 1 for a few weeks when my sales were almost non-existent; now I see it's down to .57, but I've had more sales this month.

So whether it actually designates anything important is moot.

Xanox · « **Reply #38 on:** June 22, 2013, 00:49 »

Quote from: ShadySue on June 21, 2013, 14:03

I don't think there are categories on Alamy.

and thanks god !
but what i mean is from a technical viewpoint agencies should just give up any hope regarding automation in image search but i've never seen any discussion about it, all they do is claiming their engineers will be "tweaking" the algorithms a bit.

see Alamy with their new "creative" collection, as far as they said it's totally hand made, and it can't be otherwise, but to make things worse they marked as creative the entire portfolios of a bunch of photographers they consider creative so that even random cr-ap got into the creative collection and there's nothing you can do about it, he'll rank higher than you and thanks for all the chips.

ShadySue · « **Reply #39 on:** June 22, 2013, 04:40 »

I certainly agree that it's extremely difficult to discern the criteria which make certain images 'creative' and other very similar images uncreative.
While I understand that 'creative' isn't the same as 'relevant', where there are just a couple of rows of creative, then the 'sort by relevance' starts, it's often a bit embarrassing how 'irrelevant' some of the 'creative' pics are, where the main 'creativity' is 'creative writing' in the keywording.

Phadrea · « **Reply #40 on:** June 28, 2013, 14:57 »

well, to me it's a lot of hassle keywording for no sales. Still nothing for me

ShadySue · « **Reply #41 on:** June 28, 2013, 15:02 »

Quote from: Herg on June 28, 2013, 14:57

well, to me it's a lot of hassle keywording for no sales. Still nothing for me

I thought you posted two weeks ago that you'd "just been accepted".
You need to manage your expectations.
Alamy buyers typically have a long lead time (often months) and often get three or even six months to report a sale, so you can see an in-use months before the sale is reported.

pancaketom · « **Reply #42 on:** June 28, 2013, 15:52 »

I went over a year (with admittedly a pretty small port) before my first Alamy sale. Since then I have had some very good months, and plenty of good months. Things have been pretty slow there the last few months for me though. My one sale this month was a distributor sale, which is extra painful there now. Still, I would say that the upload and keyword hassle has been worth it for me. Especially if there are more very good months in my future.

Phadrea · « **Reply #43 on:** July 05, 2013, 05:29 »

Well I got a first sale for $29. That's excellent. Well happy and encouraged to continue uploading.

ShadySue · « **Reply #44 on:** July 05, 2013, 05:31 »

Quote from: Herg on July 05, 2013, 05:29

Well I got a first sale for $29. That's excellent. Well happy and encouraged to continue uploading.

$29 to you? or gross as quoted?
Anyway, that is a really fast first sale, congratulations

Phadrea · « **Reply #45 on:** July 05, 2013, 05:39 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 05, 2013, 05:31

Quote from: Herg on July 05, 2013, 05:29
Well I got a first sale for $29. That's excellent. Well happy and encouraged to continue uploading.
$29 to you? or gross as quoted?
Anyway, that is a really fast first sale, congratulations

Thanks. It just says "$29 total"

Ron · « **Reply #46 on:** July 05, 2013, 05:46 »

Quote from: Herg on July 05, 2013, 05:39

Quote from: ShadySue on July 05, 2013, 05:31
Quote from: Herg on July 05, 2013, 05:29
Well I got a first sale for $29. That's excellent. Well happy and encouraged to continue uploading.
$29 to you? or gross as quoted?
Anyway, that is a really fast first sale, congratulations

Thanks. It just says "$29 total"

Check the balance of your account and check out the deductions. You will see a credit line, which is your gross sale, and your debit line, which is the commissions taken by Alamy and a distributor. You either have a 30% net or 50% net sale.

ShadySue · « **Reply #47 on:** July 05, 2013, 05:48 »

Quote from: Herg on July 05, 2013, 05:39

Quote from: ShadySue on July 05, 2013, 05:31
Quote from: Herg on July 05, 2013, 05:29
Well I got a first sale for $29. That's excellent. Well happy and encouraged to continue uploading.
$29 to you? or gross as quoted?
Anyway, that is a really fast first sale, congratulations

Thanks. It just says "$29 total"

Go into Balance of Account in My Alamy and you'll find out if it was an Alamy sale (50% of the $29 to you) or a Distributor sale (30% to you). When I started, it was about 50-50, but in the past year it seems to be more Alamy sales (for me).

PS: Ron beat me to it!

Phadrea · « **Reply #48 on:** July 05, 2013, 06:01 »

Ah yes, I see it now thanks. I was on the wrong page. I got 50% which is still good. Much better than other rates.

cobalt · « **Reply #49 on:** July 05, 2013, 06:52 »

I have to add plurals??

Guess, I need to back in and add more keywords.

Ron · « **Reply #50 on:** July 05, 2013, 06:57 »

Quote from: cobalt on July 05, 2013, 06:52

I have to add plurals??

Guess, I need to back in and add more keywords.

And spelling differences

ShadySue · « **Reply #51 on:** July 06, 2013, 02:35 »

Quote from: Ron on July 05, 2013, 06:57

Quote from: cobalt on July 05, 2013, 06:52
I have to add plurals??

Guess, I need to back in and add more keywords.

And spelling differences

And it couldn't do any harm to put in translations of important keywords, especially if significant of your culture and the local word is different from the English word. AFAIK, Alamy doesn't translate keywords.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #52 on:** July 08, 2013, 20:17 »

Yes, Alamy search is totally literal and not intuitive at all. You must add plurals.

Yes, words together are weighted more heavily than just existing in the same keywords. No "doesn't do anything" and neither does the proposed [words here] brackets.

Yes the word order matters, first words are stronger than later words.

Alamy has yet again changed the search. First they dropped Description, then swapped around what showed, now they dropped Location.

Here's the simplest breakdown of keyword/searchrank. That doesn't explain how much Very High is more than High? 25%, 50%, 10%?

Essential = Very High
Main = High
Comprehensive = Medium
Caption = Low

According to Alamy... Word order and Proximity count. Same three words "Red Dog Walking" searched, would in theory show in this order in the search.

1) Red Dog Walking across bridge
2) Red haired man walking dog across bridge
3) Boat under walking bridge man rowing barking dog lady red dress

#1 has all three words in the right order, close together. #2 has all three words, wrong order, but close together #3 all three words, all wrong order, divided by many other words. All have the same three words. Add in that if the same three words are in different fields, it changes the order and power.

The search isn't as dumb as some people try to make it out to be. It finds what you search for. Good search words = better results. Yes it will find ALL words. What would someone want, to have the search NOT find words that the artist put in the keywords?

You have a really key, important, keyword, put it first in Essential. Have two or three words that go together? Put them together.

I honestly think the system at Alamy combats spam and penalizes people who pump up their keywords with fluff. I don't particularly care or watch CTR, because it's the result not the cause. There could be 10 other reasons why people aren't clicking images, besides keywords. Like composition, colors, contents, specifics, location, mistakes... and the photo isn't what they wanted. Blaming it all on keywords is a bit short sighted.

Quote from: cobalt on July 05, 2013, 06:52

I have to add plurals??

Guess, I need to back in and add more keywords.

ShadySue · « **Reply #53 on:** July 09, 2013, 03:42 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 08, 2013, 20:17

Yes, Alamy search is totally literal and not intuitive at all. You must add plurals.

It's perfectly logical/intuitive to search for e.g. 'horses' or 'four horses'.

KB · « **Reply #54 on:** July 09, 2013, 09:43 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 09, 2013, 03:42

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 08, 2013, 20:17
Yes, Alamy search is totally literal and not intuitive at all. You must add plurals.
It's perfectly logical/intuitive to search for e.g. 'horses' or 'four horses'.

Yes, but many other agencies automatically pluralize keywords, so if you keyword only 'horse' it will still match when someone searches for 'horses'. But not all do, so this isn't that unusual, just irksome.

ShadySue · « **Reply #55 on:** July 09, 2013, 09:59 »

Quote from: KB on July 09, 2013, 09:43

Quote from: ShadySue on July 09, 2013, 03:42
Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 08, 2013, 20:17
Yes, Alamy search is totally literal and not intuitive at all. You must add plurals.
It's perfectly logical/intuitive to search for e.g. 'horses' or 'four horses'.
Yes, but many other agencies automatically pluralize keywords, so if you keyword only 'horse' it will still match when someone searches for 'horses'. But not all do, so this isn't that unusual, just irksome.

The problem with the CV on iS (of which I'm a huge fan) is that when you type 'horses' it reverts to 'horse' and you get a lot of single horse photos. So the searcher has to qualify it with a number or 'many'. Why hack off a buyer?
SS search 'horses' also has a lot of single horse images; DT is much better: most 'horses' have >1 horse; Alamy has some single horse images in a search for 'horses', and some quite surprising-until-you-see-the-caption images, but mostly multiple horses.

KB · « **Reply #56 on:** July 09, 2013, 11:36 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 09, 2013, 09:59

SS search 'horses' also has a lot of single horse images; DT is much better: most 'horses' have >1 horse; Alamy has some single horse images in a search for 'horses', and some quite surprising-until-you-see-the-caption images, but mostly multiple horses.

SS is one of those agencies that pluralizes keywords. (In fact, if you include both the singular and plural versions of a keyword when submitting, it automatically removes one of them.) DT, OTOH, does nothing special with plurals, IIRC.

But I can see what you mean about making it more difficult to search for exactly what you are looking for.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #57 on:** July 10, 2013, 11:46 »

Yes I agree and it can be an advantage when the HUMAN does the plurals and variations, including us inserting our specific keywords.

What I meant, and may not have been clear about, is this. The Alamy programed search itself, is not intuitive. It does NOT do CV and plurals. Yes, it's fine and intuitive for humans who understand how to use it to be able to control what they get for better results.

The others that are helping, actually can make for worse results in some cases. Some sites you type in "horse" and you get Horses (maybe horseshoe and horsepucky too?) as a feature. Alamy you only get the identical word "Horse".

Meanwhile the idea is, if you want a buyer to find something on Alamy, it has to be there, exactly as they type it. Don't expect the search to interpret and be intuitive, finding partial words or plurals. This could include spelling variations and some people even have included wrong spellings that are common. Saint and St. are different.

Pitfalls in using abbreviations? Some:

ST   Street
ST   State
ST   Saint
ST   Star Trek
ST   Stanza
ST   Short-Time
ST   Start
ST   Spring Training (baseball)
ST   Subject to (math)
ST   Special Training
ST   Science And Technology
ST   Short-Term
ST   Standard Time
ST   Sunday Times (newspaper; various locations)
ST   Stores (on-line ordering and catalog system)
ST   Systems Technology
ST   Student/Teacher
ST   Stone (British weight;14 pounds)
ST   Space Technology

We could do a whole thread on Color / Colour - Curb / Kerb - Tire / Type Etc. Maybe someone could do a standard translation English to English dictionary?

Quote from: ShadySue on July 09, 2013, 03:42

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 08, 2013, 20:17
Yes, Alamy search is totally literal and not intuitive at all. You must add plurals.

It's perfectly logical/intuitive to search for e.g. 'horses' or 'four horses'.

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Author Topic: Alamy strange keywording requirements (Read 31765 times)

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