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Author Topic: Few doubts about Alamy submission  (Read 9671 times)

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lagereek

« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2011, 13:29 »
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Thank you ShadySue for such a descriptive explanation. Let me ask once more to be sure that if i have sold a pic in exclusive RF licence in and then i get an offer for the same pic under RM licence then can i sell it now as RM or I will have to remove the pic from the gallery/stock itself for a specific period of time once i have sold it as any form of exclusivity ?

Look!  do yourself a favour here, its very touchy stuff, find out via the agencies, etc. Once a picture has been sold as RF or Micro, it can NEVER be sold as RM. At Alamy you yourself decide RM or RF, you can change as long as the picture havent sold as RF.
Be careful, any RM breech and you will land in court.

Christian, technically a previously sold as RF can be sold as RM - no problem. Can even be sold exclusively if past history is accepted by buyers. HOWEVER, Getty doesn't accept this (RF to RM).

OK then, good to know!  I know Getty would never accept that but obviously Alamy does.

thanks,  cheers.


« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2011, 14:04 »
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Could someone here write a sticky about the difference of RM and RF as well as exclusivity?

This would make things a lot easier for everyone.

RacePhoto gave an excellent explanation above. 

« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2011, 17:27 »
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In my very little experience licensing directly, I never had anyone requesting exclusivity, maybe because what I do is mostly editorial content.

One site that handles licensing history very well is MyLoupe. You can enter information about existing licenses (usage, time frame, geographic restrictions, etc), so if you licensed an image elsewhere, the information is available. I have never checked however if the information is available to the site admin only or to the buyer.

Uncle Pete

  • Evidence please...

« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2011, 02:19 »
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Could someone here write a sticky about the difference of RM and RF as well as exclusivity?

This would make things a lot easier for everyone.

Doesn't matter, I tried, and others have tried. There are some tiny loopholes, like if you are caught with the smoking gun in your hand and they don't read you, your rights, you go free, because they got the evidence illegally. But the rest of the time, you'll get the chair. (except in CA and France of course)

You can't sell RF as RM, if it has been sold RF. Not if it's been offered RF, but if it has SOLD. And in general say it's some micro shot that sold 500 times to, no-one-knows-who, it's pretty difficult to provide any record of where it's being used. So yes...

If the buyer is a total idiot and want's that shot "exclusive" and doesn't care that you sold it for 25c yesterday, and they can buy it for a buck, BUT they want to pay you $500 for an exclusive world license. It's possible. Unlikely, improbable and it's probably not going to happen, but it's not "impossible". The buyer would have to agree and like I mentioned (with full disclosure, before they buy it, not after) be a total idiot, because they can but it RF with an extended license for $28.

The problem is that some people offer the same images, at the same time, concurrently, as RF and RM, and claim, well if it sells RM, I'll pull the RF license sites and I'm fine. OK how about, selling unreleased photos and if someone buys it, I can always get a model release later. (no kidding someone said that!)

Are people grubbing and scuffling for whatever they can get, so much that they lose site of basic legality and integrity? Is one Sub sale going to make a difference to how your family lives? Because it's one tiny sub sale that can forever make a photo RM! I don't know why people have to play games and try to controvert the system, bend all the laws, for one more potential sale? There's something wrong when that's how desperate people get to make a buck.

Once it sells RF it's always RF.

Plus a small detail, every agency I know of, that lists terms of sale which mention this, will include that you can't sell images as RF and RM at the same time. There's a nice simple reason. Because they say we can't.  :o
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 02:22 by RacePhoto »

« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2011, 02:49 »
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Basically the two (RM and RF) are only two different ways of determining the price of a license - that's it. RF it is priced according to size, whilst RM is priced according to usage. Different agencies might have extra requirements, there might be "moral" implications or integrity reasons. Logically, proper exclusivity can only really be obtained with RM that has never been sold as RF. Nothing prevents RF or even mRF to be sold as RM, unless the agency prohibits it. Unfortunately many of today's RM licenses are almost RF like in the sense that they span very long time (seen up to 10 years) and for very broad usages - thus eliminating the possibility for the same image to sell exclusively for almost any other usage.

BUT in the real world WE shouldn't sell previous RF or mRF as RM, and absolutely not the same image as RF and RM at the same time.

Quite a good write-up regarding this issue can be found here: http://www.youngimaging.com/Article-WhyNotLicenseAnImageAsRFAndRM.asp
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 04:22 by CarlssonInc. Stock Imagery Production »

ShadySue

« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2011, 08:35 »
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hello everyone,
I am planning to submit 4 (1st time) images for QC in Alamy. But i have few terms what i don't understand.
(1) What does RM (Right Management) category ? Does it mean that if we choose submit photo for RM then those photos must be exclusive (I mean is it related to become Exclusive Alamy photographs? )

Also bear in mind that if you have unreleased people, or even part of an unreleased dot of a person in shot, or any product which would need a property release (read up all you can about this if you're not sure. When in doubt, I always tick 'needs PR') and you haven't got releases, your picture will automatically be assinged as RM. You only have a choice of assigning RF to photos which have all the appropriate releases or don't need any.

« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2011, 03:04 »
0
hello everyone,
I am planning to submit 4 (1st time) images for QC in Alamy. But i have few terms what i don't understand.
(1) What does RM (Right Management) category ? Does it mean that if we choose submit photo for RM then those photos must be exclusive (I mean is it related to become Exclusive Alamy photographs? )

Also bear in mind that if you have unreleased people, or even part of an unreleased dot of a person in shot, or any product which would need a property release (read up all you can about this if you're not sure. When in doubt, I always tick 'needs PR') and you haven't got releases, your picture will automatically be assinged as RM. You only have a choice of assigning RF to photos which have all the appropriate releases or don't need any.

[1]You mean without releases a photo with a person or some property will be included to "editorial" ? does it mean all editorials are essentially RM ?

[2]Another thing.. please tell do we need to submit releases with (4) photos in the approval procedure ?

[3] Which is safer.. posting a photo in RM/RF and which pays us more money RF/RM?

Thank you all friends for your valuable suggestion and response, Sorry that i could not replied you earlier.

ShadySue

« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2011, 06:11 »
0
hello everyone,
I am planning to submit 4 (1st time) images for QC in Alamy. But i have few terms what i don't understand.
(1) What does RM (Right Management) category ? Does it mean that if we choose submit photo for RM then those photos must be exclusive (I mean is it related to become Exclusive Alamy photographs? )

Also bear in mind that if you have unreleased people, or even part of an unreleased dot of a person in shot, or any product which would need a property release (read up all you can about this if you're not sure. When in doubt, I always tick 'needs PR') and you haven't got releases, your picture will automatically be assinged as RM. You only have a choice of assigning RF to photos which have all the appropriate releases or don't need any.

[1]You mean without releases a photo with a person or some property will be included to "editorial" ? does it mean all editorials are essentially RM ?

[2]Another thing.. please tell do we need to submit releases with (4) photos in the approval procedure ?

[3] Which is safer.. posting a photo in RM/RF and which pays us more money RF/RM?

Thank you all friends for your valuable suggestion and response, Sorry that i could not replied you earlier.

[1] Yes.

[2] No

[3] Safer: RM, because you know what use has been paid for and can spot any misuses. With RF the buyer can use it for (almost) any purpose and as often as they like and in any ways they like. That said, Alamy (and apparently several other agencies) won't help you if someone lifts your image from one website and puts it on their own (because it's not a 'breach of the license', like e.g. paying for a print use and putting it also onto their website would be). However, they graciously allow you to pursue it on your own. (From what I'm hearing, several companies have that policy - I guess it would be very expensive for them to pursue, and it would come out of our commission, which on Alamy is 60% or 40%. Getty pursue aggressively, but as they only pay contributers 20%, they have the money to do so.)
Pays more: How long is a piece of string? Impossible to answer as buyers can often negotiate prices for uses. Depends in each case how unique your image is. I hear that generally RF pays better, but it just depends - you never know. From a buyer's point of view, if they only want a simple, non-exclusive use, RM makes more sense. If they want to use a pic on their brochure, packaging, adverts and a website, non-exclusively, RF is better value. Prices are spiralling downwards, of course, as a consequence of RF licenses and micro. If you have a unique image, and a buyer wants wide exclusive usage, you could be in the money. Of course, like on the micros, if you have a unique image, it may be simply that buyers at that agency aren't interested in that subject.
Also if you read their occasional request info, it's always model-releases and property released images buyers are requesting.
If you have releases, you can still choose to set the file as RM, you don't have to set it RF: again a difficult decision, but probably RF for 'general' stuff and RM for more unique stuff, e.g. if you can get releases it would be difficult for someone else to get.

Caveat: if selling editorial, you need to build up a huge port (thousands) before you see regular sales. Also, before submitting anything, it might be worth having a look at what's there already - usually loads - and consider whether your pics are significantly better with what's already there and has established Alamy Rank (where you place on the search - this is by contributer, not by image). As a newbie, you will be assigned a medium rank, so your pics will be in the middle of any search, which won't matter if there are only 20 images in a search, but will matter where results are in the thousands.

« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2011, 06:49 »
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Thank you very much Sue for your well explained note.. I see what can i do in Alamy.   :)

ShadySue

« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2011, 07:34 »
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Thank you very much Sue for your well explained note.. I see what can i do in Alamy.   :)

Oh, sorry, a modifier to my answer to [2]: if your submission photos are accepted, they go directly into the collection, so you'll be asked when you keyword etc them if you have releases.

And just FI: I was almost 8 months/300 pics on Alamy before I got my first sale. YMMV.

« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2011, 07:50 »
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Thank you very much Sue for your well explained note.. I see what can i do in Alamy.   :)

Oh, sorry, a modifier to my answer to [2]: if your submission photos are accepted, they go directly into the collection, so you'll be asked when you keyword etc them if you have releases.

And just FI: I was almost 8 months/300 pics on Alamy before I got my first sale. YMMV.

So we have option there at the time of approval also whether photo is for editorial or RF  ? but its after the 4 images are accepted.. not during submission of pix in QC..right ?

and you could sold your image after 8 months while you had 300 pix collection ????

« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2011, 08:00 »
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I have another curiosity.. what currency should one set for payment in alamy,as they have option for GBP, Euro and USD.. i have chosen USD through paypal but as far as my country's currency is concerned, GBP has highest value for our currency.. so is it beneficial to choose GBP for me ? i asked so because i searched in alamy gallery and found the pix by the photographers from my country has value in GBP..so if anyone can suggest me about this as well....

and what is digitally altered option in submission page in alamy ? are change in contrast,brightness,noise removal etc basic things also come in "digital alteration" ? and does it affect the acceptance by Alamy ?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 08:08 by dr_skn08 »

ShadySue

« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2011, 08:16 »
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Thank you very much Sue for your well explained note.. I see what can i do in Alamy.   :)

Oh, sorry, a modifier to my answer to [2]: if your submission photos are accepted, they go directly into the collection, so you'll be asked when you keyword etc them if you have releases.

And just FI: I was almost 8 months/300 pics on Alamy before I got my first sale. YMMV.

So we have option there at the time of approval also whether photo is for editorial or RF  ? but its after the 4 images are accepted.. not during submission of pix in QC..right ?

and you could sold your image after 8 months while you had 300 pix collection ????

[1] yes, you upload first then you keyword etc (which I personally find time consuming and fairly difficult) and at that point, when you set your attributes, you choose RF or RM - but as noted above if you need but don't have MR or PR, it will be automatically RF RM.
NOTE: to protect yourself, if you're not sure whether a PR is needed, tick yes. Then the onus is 100% on the buyer.

[2] I don't really understand the question. I built up about 300 photos (I had no 'back catalogue' for Alamy as I'd only just got the 5D2 when I applied), with no sales until the eighth month. Of course, you might get a sale the day after your photo goes online, I'm just 'managing your expections'.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 08:47 by ShadySue »

« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2011, 08:21 »
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[/quote]

[1] yes, you upload first then you keyword etc (which I personally find time consuming and fairly difficult) and at that point, when you set your attributes, you choose RF or RM - but as noted above if you need but don't have MR or PR, it will be automatically RF.
NOTE: to protect yourself, if you're not sure whether a PR is needed, tick yes. Then the onus is 100% on the buyer.

[/quote]

I did not get you this time.. i thought that if i have no MR/PR then photo will go automatically to Editorial i.e RM but you said her it will go to RF (as for RF it is necessary to post releases)
 ???

ShadySue

« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2011, 08:44 »
0


[1] yes, you upload first then you keyword etc (which I personally find time consuming and fairly difficult) and at that point, when you set your attributes, you choose RF or RM - but as noted above if you need but don't have MR or PR, it will be automatically RF.
NOTE: to protect yourself, if you're not sure whether a PR is needed, tick yes. Then the onus is 100% on the buyer.

[/quote]

I did not get you this time.. i thought that if i have no MR/PR then photo will go automatically to Editorial i.e RM but you said her it will go to RF (as for RF it is necessary to post releases)
 ???
[/quote]

Sorry - typo. I should not have typed RF but RM. My fingers work faster than  my brain! I'll correct my post too. Thanks for pointing it out. You can be my (unpaid!) proofreader any time!
What happens in the system is that when you set Attributes, if you click MR needed/not available and/or PR needed/ not available, RF is not available as an option for that image, it sets to Rights Managed automatically.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 08:48 by ShadySue »

« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2011, 08:59 »
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lol what is "proofreader" Sue ?

Can you answer my other question about currency of payment ?

ShadySue

« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2011, 09:03 »
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lol what is "proofreader" Sue ?

Can you answer my other question about currency of payment ?

Proofreader is someone who reads someone else's writing and points out all the errors.

Can't help about currrency, I'm paid in UKP because that's where I live, and I have direct payments to my bank.

BTW, just today they've announced that they're lowering the payout threshold to $175, no doubt in line with falling prices.

PS: if you post any beginner questions on the Alamy forum, be sure to be wearing your 'big boy trousers' - they can sometimes be really aggressive with newbies (not everyone, of course).

« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2011, 09:09 »
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hahahahahah thats so funny  :D  hey sue can i see you portfolio in alamy..?
can't we know how many times a photo in alamy is downloaded or has been sold as we can know good detail about pix in DT ?

ShadySue

« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2011, 09:53 »
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hahahahahah thats so funny  :D  hey sue can i see you portfolio in alamy..?
[PMd]
can't we know how many times a photo in alamy is downloaded or has been sold as we can know good detail about pix in DT ?
You have these details about your own images, but not about other people's images (to discourage copy-catting, I guess. On iStock I use dl figures for the very opposite, because it there are ten perfectly good images of something on iStock which haven't sold, it's clear people who are looking for that subject don't look at iStock). Once you're accepted, you have access to something called Alamy Measures, but it's only of limited usefulness.

ShadySue

« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2011, 09:57 »
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and what is digitally altered option in submission page in alamy ? are change in contrast,brightness,noise removal etc basic things also come in "digital alteration" ? and does it affect the acceptance by Alamy ?
No, these are all OK, and normal image correctons don't count. What counts is alteration of the image, e.g. cloning etc. There is some debate on site as to whether that would include removing bird poo, small pieces of litter, bubblegum on the pavement etc. Some people say these should be marked as altered, others say not so long as the removals were of tiny items, not significant in the photo, especially if ten minutes later, the litter might have blown elsewhere.
How many 'secondary editorial' image buyers care whether a photo has had tiny 'improvements', i.e. whether they'd prefer 'natural' or 'improved',  I couldn't possibly say.

« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2011, 01:29 »
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does alamy accept photos of insects landscapes and macro shots and how is their sale in alamy ?

ShadySue

« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2011, 05:38 »
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does alamy accept photos of insects landscapes and macro shots and how is their sale in alamy ?
Yes, they accept them: but have a really good, hard look at the opposition already on the site before you submit anything like that. There are some real  nature experts (including a few big names) who have been submitting for years there, or who submit via another agency and they show up on Alamy. There's no point in uploading something unless it's significantly different (e.g. a different behaviour) or significantly better than what's already there.

« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2011, 06:52 »
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ya thats true sue.. thanks for reply :-)

« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2011, 08:22 »
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There are 2 section above search box in alamy... 1 is all of alamy and 2 is creative..
what is creative search.. and how is it different from "all of alamy" search ?

« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2011, 11:49 »
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If one fails his QC 1st time then after how many days he can retry the QC once again...?

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