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Author Topic: Shutterstock's "Bridge to Bigstock" program  (Read 29459 times)

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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2011, 18:49 »
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As long as they don't migrate my BigStock images to SS, I'm ok.

 ;D

Yeah, you've always had much love for SS Madelaide.  Just out of curiosity, what is your RPD like at sites like FT and DT?  You might be surprised to learn that many of us have pretty good RPDs at SS.  I generally average about 45 cents per download once I factor in On Demand sales.  In months when I get EL's, I often average close to $1 per download...which is pretty much what I average at BigStock.


« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2011, 19:54 »
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Just out of curiosity, what is your RPD like at sites like FT and DT?
I don't follow that, but DT has the answer in their stats: in 2010, disregarding one month with EL, it ranged from 91c to 2.36, year average was 1.59. It's around US$1 also in BigStock. Dec in FT was 65c.

I still think SS created an unnecessary precedent with subscriptions, making cheaper what was already too cheap.  I never supported that model.  I stopped uploading to FT when subs were introduced.  To DT also, I think.  I've started uploading to SF, but if they become a mainly subs site, I'll remove my stuff from there.

« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2011, 18:18 »
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I just got some follow up questions answered about this and blogged it:

http://www.niltomil.com/microstock-world/bridge-bigstock-program-qa/

Hope that gives a bit more info on the program.

xst

« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2011, 18:27 »
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Its obviously not going to be for everybody.
SS accepts nudity and BS doesnt allow at all - bare butt is no-no, Im not even talking about nipples visible.

« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2011, 07:42 »
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How dissapointing! I've been waiting for this to go live since December (and hoping they would do this for a lot longer) but now it seems it's only for selected contributors. I've read all the info over and over but still have the same question. Is this just initially for selected people and then intended to be available to everyone down the line? Or is it only ever going to be for selected portfolios? I can't tell one way or the other from what's been said so far. Anyone know any more on that one? I know Scott from Bigstock follows this forum so perhaps he would be kind enough to let us know. Regards, David.   

« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2011, 14:36 »
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Hello David,

Unfortunately, the program is only for selected contributors, but it's still good news for everyone.  Some of this is covered in our answer to Matt Antonino's questions, linked below, but I'll summarize here. 

In a nutshell, the program is generally targeted at a small number of high sales / high volume contributors who most benefit from a single submission process or those who would find it difficult to move a portfolio over.  If there's a specific contributor whose work is high quality and fills a content need at Bigstock, we may go outside of the core group to invite that person as well. We're going to be inviting contributors in phases, but we won't be inviting every Shutterstock contributor.  Most of our initial invites will go out in the coming month.

There are a few reasons why we're not inviting everyone:

First, with every portfolio that we move over, we need to de-duplicate images and perform other tasks that require staff support.  A smaller invite list will keep those tasks manageable.

Second, we're intentionally not duplicating the collections.  Bigstock and Shutterstock service different kinds of customers.  We want to make sure that we provide the appropriate content for each group.

Of course, contributors with lower volume will find it more manageable to submit to both services. We made a number of improvements to the batch editing process last year and I'm confident that some more optimizations and improvements will be coming.  Your input is always considered and appreciated.  We'd like to do something for everyone.

The good news for all is that we've created this program because Bigstock is growing (as are the needs of the customer base) and we're going to be continuing to increase investments in marketing this year.  The improvements we made last year are only the beginning.  You may have noticed that we just launched (2) more languages (German and Spanish), support for (4) more currencies, and three separate domains to better service international customers.

We're already getting positive reviews in international press (in German):
http://www.fotoskaufen.de/bildagenturen/bildagentur-bigstock-test-preisvergleich.html

A few more details about the Bridge program will be found in Matt's blog here:
http://www.niltomil.com/microstock-world/bridge-bigstock-program-qa/

Needless to say, we're very excited about this year. :)

I'm always available for additional questions.

Best Regards,

Scott

grp_photo

« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2011, 15:47 »
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I'm confident that some more optimizations and improvements will be coming.  Your input is always considered and appreciated.  We'd like to do something for everyone.
Get rid of the demand of the seven word description!

« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2011, 15:48 »
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Thanks, Scott, for clarifying that. Much appreciated. Not the answer I was hoping for (obviously) but at least I know where I am. There's no problem continuing to uploading to both sites for me -but I do have had a lot more accepted at Shutterstock than at Bigstock so I was hoping to double my port overnight with you (especially my archive celeb shots -selling at SS and rejected for "grain" at BS  :'(). But, anyway, thanks again for your response. Kind regards, David.

lisafx

« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2011, 16:21 »
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Thanks for weighing in Scott.  I didn't realize it was for limited to certain contributors.  Thanks for including me :)

As I understand it, the migration of images hasn't started yet.  When is it due to start, and until it does, should I continue to upload to both sites? 


« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2011, 17:05 »
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Get rid of the demand of the seven word description!

Hi GRP - we may change our metadata requirements with time, but one thing I'd like to point out is that at this juncture in microstock, accurate and robust metadata is definitely your friend.  When we look at high-performing portfolios, many of the contributors with top downloads have as many as 30-40 keywords per photo, as well as carefully written titles and descriptions.

When there are hundreds of photos of a "business handshake," having a photo of a "business handshake with an African American businesswoman" gives you some room to stand out in both subject matter and search results.

I can't tell you how many times we speak with customers and they say they want "images of diversity."  I'll show the customers photos we have and some of the best images don't have critical keywords, descriptions or captions that would allow those photos to be found in search.  What a bummer!  It's pure lost sales. :(  Also - metadata plays a role in SEO as well, allowing images to appear in both Google's images search.

Even if we were to change things, I'm a big advocate for good metadata.

Best,
Scott

 

lisafx

« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2011, 17:35 »
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Lisa - you should upload once to Shutterstock if you've already opted in.  There's a little work that's still being done to enable the end-to-end process, but we hope to see the initial batches making their way in this week or next.

Best,
Scott

Sounds good Scott.  I have been busy uploading, so there will be new content to ship over. 

Good advice on the SEO too.  Thanks :)

« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2011, 06:08 »
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As long as they don't migrate my BigStock images to SS, I'm ok.
Why not? Shutterstock is my best earning stock site by far, and this seems to be the case for most people. The rate per download might be low but more than made up for in volume

grp_photo

« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2011, 15:31 »
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Even if we were to change things, I'm a big advocate for good metadata.

Best,
Scott

 
I'm a big fan of tighten keywords, keyword-spam is Microstock's desease and one of the main points in quality difference between micro and "real" macro (Getty and Corbis).
Veer used to be a great site with good search results now you are swamped with pictures of "woman in lingerie" if you look for a child helping her mum with her laundry - it is really that awful, and you can't microimages turn off - only macro!.
But "isolated potatoes on white" doesn't really need a seven word description, it is okay to demand a description, but let the photographer decide how many are needed sometimes three words are enough to describe a photo thoroughly and sometimes you need twenty words - it depends on the image - and believe me, we know our images best!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 15:39 by grp_photo »

RacePhoto

« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2011, 16:14 »
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I disagree GRP that's "isolated sliced tomatoes on white." :)

Scott by encouraging people to have 40 keywords you are embracing and enhancing bad searches. Yes a seven word description may be useful, but 40 keywords just makes for a mess as people spam their images. God search for red apple and see the cornucopia or a field with on tiny red apple tree way in the background, or something where red apple isn't the main subject, but people have 40 keywords, including the ant on the cookie jar. :)

Good metadata would be forcing people to have accurate and relevant data only.

Can you enhance this bit a little. I've seen it a couple of times, referring to BS buyers and the collection, and also as who might be added to The Bridge. "content that fills specific needs at Bigstock" Can you explain what specific needs might be? More specific examples?

Thanks for continuing to come to the forum with helpful answers and advise from BigStock.



Even if we were to change things, I'm a big advocate for good metadata.

Best,
Scott

I'm a big fan of tighten keywords, keyword-spam is Microstock's desease and one of the main points in quality difference between micro and "real" macro (Getty and Corbis).
Veer used to be a great site with good search results now you are swamped with pictures of "woman in lingerie" if you look for a child helping her mum with her laundry - it is really that awful, and you can't microimages turn off - only macro!.
But "isolated potatoes on white" doesn't really need a seven word description, it is okay to demand a description, but let the photographer decide how many are needed sometimes three words are enough to describe a photo thoroughly and sometimes you need twenty words - it depends on the image - and believe me, we know our images best!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 16:24 by RacePhoto »

« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2011, 22:29 »
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I have 2,500+ images (with many multiracial shots) on Shutterstock and 0 on BigStock.  I have never gotten around to uploading them to BigStock myself, and at this point I never will.  I asked support politely if they might consider including me in the program, as there would be no filtering for duplicate images required and they mentioned it was invitation only.  So either my portfolio is insufficiently performing, or they actually don't need my photos on BigStock.

« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2011, 22:55 »
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Hi guys,

ON KEYWORDING:

I completely agree that keyword spam can be an issue, which is why you'll see me use the words "accurate" and "relevant" whenever talking about metadata.  The goal is to provide robust metadata that's accurate.   We always argue for best practices and responsible keywording in our tutorials and blogs:

http://www.bigstockphoto.com/blog/theupload/2010/07/keyword-tips/

An isolated object might be a tough example, but I'd argue that even a single object could have a better description, such as "Single raw potato isolated on a white background."   Or "Two baked potatoes isolated on a white background."   If you left out "single" or "one," "raw," or "baked," you'd might not appear as high in a search in which someone was looking for that specific thing. What if the buyer is looking for red potatoes instead of brown?  Detailed metadata is helpful as long as it's accurate.  

Of course - different microstock agencies use different search algorithms, and those algorithms may weigh keywords, titles and descriptions differently, so there's no guarantee that what works for one agency works for others.  

The 7-word requirement may change at some point in the future, but it's something to consider.

RE: CONTENT NEEDS

In terms of the Bridge to Bigstock, a invitee who fills "content needs" can refer to someone who has a very strong collection of images of multicultural professionals.  Or a contributor who has creative, conceptual images with very high production values (i.e., produced shoots); or an illustrator who has an extensive collection of contemporary vectors.  Those contributors aren't the focus of the program, but in the interest of transparency, we want to let people know that there might be occasions in which we might invite a contributor who is not in the highest volume category for sales or uploads.

Also, this will be a phased program and we've only invited an initial small number of contributors thus far.  Thanks for everyone's patience as we kick this off. 

Best,

Scott
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 23:24 by scottbraut »

« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2011, 14:19 »
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On the 7 word description issue, it may seem like a little thing, but when I upload to all sites with mass upload software such as the new microstocksubmitter software (or other software) I have to check off don't upload to bigstock, because it is the only one of all the sites that has this silly restriction so the software will force me to re-keyword everything (which I am not doing). This means I would have to spend hours re-keywording my metadata on hundreds of images (some people have thousands) just so that I can get my images on one of the lowest earning sites?  If the whole goal is to make it easier for people to get images on the site then "little" things like this compounded over thousands of people and thousands of images can make all the difference. When I do take the time to upload to big stock I find myself having to use filler (spam) words just to fill the quota. An image of "poison ivy" becomes "green poison ivy leaf on sunny day"  that to me is forcing contributers to do "soft spamming", when someone is looking for "poison ivy" leaf they do not want images with keywords sunny day and green that will return too much unrelated stuff such as hundreds of pages of green grass on sunny day with no "poison ivy" to be found. 

Anyway I just wanted to let my voice be heard, what seems like a tiny requirement is actually keeping many images from being uploaded and helping to force spam. I wish there was an industry standard with metadata requirements. the pay is not enough to warrant special attention to any one site let alone a low earning site with odd requirements.

lisafx

« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2011, 15:07 »
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I realize it may not be an ideal solution, but why not just add 7 word descriptions to all your images in the first place.  That's what I do and so it's never been a problem uploading to BigStock. 

« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2011, 15:33 »
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I realize it may not be an ideal solution, but why not just add 7 word descriptions to all your images in the first place.  That's what I do and so it's never been a problem uploading to BigStock. 

You are right, I will add the 7 words for future images but I am not going back and editing the past.  I know it really seems like a petty and minor issue but with absolutely no standardization in the industry it is always the artist who is expected to make the time consuming adjustments. I am tired of jumping these little hurdles... they do add up after a while and make for major keyword fatigue, and I only have a few hundred images, I can't imagine what a new contributer to Bigstock who already has a few thousand images keyworded would have to go through just because of such a simple thing. Anyway I think we beat this dead horse enough.  Hmm, "beating a dead horse".... anyone up for a totally sick concept shot? * still only coming up with 4 words for descriptions.   :P

« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2011, 15:45 »
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Lightscribe - you make an important point and I think the answer is somewhere in between.  

From the perspective of a search engine, metadata is critical to showing *accurate* results.  For example,

-----
Title: Red Rose

Description: Macro closeup of a single open red rose  

Keywords: affection, anniversary, background, beautiful, beauty, bloom, blossom, botanical, closeup, color, decoration, elegant, floral, flower, fresh, gift, holiday, love, macro, nature, passion, petal, plant, red, romance, romantic, rose, single, texture, valentine, natural
-----

From the search engine perspective, the system knows that this is definitely a red rose; it should be a single red rose; and it's a macro or closeup image.   The search engine now also knows that it might be related to the concept of a "gift" or "romance," but those concepts are loosely related.  If this were a gift box, then the title would be "Gift Box" and the description would be "Single gift box with Christmas wrapping paper."   The system would then know that the image is definitely a gift box (etc..., etc...) and probably has a Christmas theme, etc..., differentiating it from the first photo - a red rose that might be given as a gift.  

If people *accurately* enter metadata, this should create very (relevant) search results.  Arguments could be made that the "short titles" should be more robust for SEO purposes, but in general, that will work.

Now if people rush through metadata, it's a moot point.   But everyone should keep in mind that metadata is how people find your images. If you put in *inaccurate*metadata, you'll just frustrate buyers and dilute the overall search experience for everyone.  If you put in insufficient metadata, when a buyer searches for "single red rose white background," your image might not come up and you'll lose the sale.

None of this is really a secret, but good metadata practices are something that the top sellers often use to their advantage.  

As always, our policies might get relaxed, but we're here to help and to ensure the best experience for both our contributors and buyers.  We want you to be successful...creating a good search experience is a shared effort.

 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 15:47 by scottbraut »

grp_photo

« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2011, 19:08 »
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Well Scott,
you have actually a lot of pictures on your site with less than a seven word description with the "bridge to bigstock" program you may have a majority with pictures with less than a seven word description on your site in the future.

Would it just make more sense to have the SAME Metadata requirement on SS and BS?

And as lightscribe mentioned you fill up the description with silly words like "isolated potatoes on a happy sunny day". As a native speaker it is maybe easier to fill up the seven word requirement with something more useful but as a non-native speaker you fill it up with something silly just look at your own site for some examples. That requirement isn't the key to good Metadata thats just unnecessary nonsense.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 19:24 by grp_photo »

« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2011, 08:39 »
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Try logging in and out to both sites a few times.  It seems to be popping up intermittently...

It's only for high performing ports, selective.  No nearly everyone will be invited.  Only a few high performance artists will be invited (for now, per SS admin).

I'm already on both anyway but I bet invitees who do it get preferred placement in the search.

Slovenian

« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2011, 17:30 »
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deleted text due to an error (can't delete the post)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 17:32 by Slovenian »

« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2011, 08:44 »
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To new/low volume to get invited, so I decided to upload manually.  Just wondering if duplicating the keywords used for the images already uploaded to Shutterstock is an acceptable approach for Bigstock uploads?  I do see that some changes need to be made, for example Latina is acceptable on SS, but not on BS as a keyword for Hispanic Woman.  Speaking in general though, are Shutterstock keywords going to fare well within Bigstock's search engine?


 

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