Author Topic: 41mp phone camera (Read 2612 times)

sharpshot · « **on:** February 27, 2012, 12:35 »

Just found this on Photo Rumours. Have a look at the samples. They might be interpolated but downsize them to a reasonable size and they look OK. Could be useful as a take everywhere camera.

http://photorumors.com/2012/02/27/who-doesnt-want-a-41mp-camera-in-their-cell-phone-nokia-808/#more-22106

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #1 on:** February 27, 2012, 13:25 »

That certainly seems impressive for what it is.

RacePhoto · « **Reply #2 on:** February 27, 2012, 16:37 »

It's March 1st not April first right?

I like everything it claims, if it's true the audio is digital quality, the video is good enough for television, and 41MP? LED and flash, pretty impressive.

No it's not going to replace anything serious, but for a P&S that's a phone, that is COOL!

Just remember that Carl Zeiss optics can be made out of plastic and be the size of a shirt button. It's mostly marketing the brand name.

"It uses some clever interpolation jiggery-pokery that condenses four or five pixels into one pixel, to produce a smaller file size for the output image" In other words, it's really a 5MP camera?

And finally $760 or €450 for a darn nice toy. I'm impressed in many ways and won't be owning one for all the easy reasons.

cidepix · « **Reply #3 on:** February 27, 2012, 18:13 »

If nokia doesn't stop using symbian operating system, they will soon be in history books, regardless of how many pixels their camera-phones can shoot..

luissantos84 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 27, 2012, 18:47 »

http://www.petapixel.com/2012/02/27/untouched-sample-shots-captured-with-nokias-new-41mp-camera-phone/

some samples

Perry · « **Reply #5 on:** February 27, 2012, 19:01 »

I need a new phone soon, and I think this will be my choice. This would be very handy when I have left my "real" cameras at home.

Suljo · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2012, 19:51 »

Well Im not impressed at all. Chicken eye size plastic lens cant produce nothing what Im interested for...

Fran · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2012, 21:10 »

Quote from: RacePhoto on February 27, 2012, 16:37

"It uses some clever interpolation jiggery-pokery that condenses four or five pixels into one pixel, to produce a smaller file size for the output image" In other words, it's really a 5MP camera?

Kind of, it's pretty smart. Instead of reading "the number of photons" from one well (pixel), it reads a certain number of wells, sums them up and then treats them as one pixel. So, effectively, it's 5mpx, but with reduced noise cause it averages out over more wells (random noise has zero average over an infinite number of samples). Now, the smart thing is that they can zoom digitally, so they assign a smaller portion of the sensor to the final image, and they reduce the number of wells (again, you can just think of pixels) they sum up to keep the result at 5mpx. Effectively they trade noise for zoom.

Metsafile · « **Reply #8 on:** February 28, 2012, 02:02 »

It's funny they put this new camera into the Symbian operating system and not the Windows Phone.

sharpshot · « **Reply #9 on:** February 28, 2012, 03:26 »

Quote from: Fran on February 27, 2012, 21:10

Quote from: RacePhoto on February 27, 2012, 16:37
"It uses some clever interpolation jiggery-pokery that condenses four or five pixels into one pixel, to produce a smaller file size for the output image" In other words, it's really a 5MP camera?

Kind of, it's pretty smart. Instead of reading "the number of photons" from one well (pixel), it reads a certain number of wells, sums them up and then treats them as one pixel. So, effectively, it's 5mpx, but with reduced noise cause it averages out over more wells (random noise has zero average over an infinite number of samples). Now, the smart thing is that they can zoom digitally, so they assign a smaller portion of the sensor to the final image, and they reduce the number of wells (again, you can just think of pixels) they sum up to keep the result at 5mpx. Effectively they trade noise for zoom.

I remember a lecture over 20 years ago about what cameras will be like in the future. One of the key points was that the camera would have a fixed lens and would zoom by cropping. Imagine a medium format size sensor with a fixed wide angle lens that could also be used like a telephoto. I'm sure camera design will get more radical, look at the Lytro. That might not be a great camera but it will make people think. The camera manufacturers need to keep innovating to make us want to buy their latest products.

lagereek · « **Reply #10 on:** February 28, 2012, 07:15 »

Hasselblad SWC, with the 38 mil Biogon fixed lens will soon be a digital, only the new zoom, is a 38-90 mil, f4. fixed lens and will retail at around, 35K.

RacePhoto · « **Reply #11 on:** February 28, 2012, 14:40 »

Found a later interview with someone from Nokia who's being honest.

"Even on a bright day there'll be grainy bits in the sky when you blow it up big,"

That's from the Mfg. not some reporter or best guess. The camera is described in one place as 7MP another as 5MP. It combines seven pixels into one for a sharper image. That would put it at about 6MP. Wow numbers are all over the place.

Expensive, toy with over-blown specs. Fine. Now about that audio and video?

Fran · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28, 2012, 20:33 »

Quote from: sharpshot on February 28, 2012, 03:26

I remember a lecture over 20 years ago about what cameras will be like in the future. One of the key points was that the camera would have a fixed lens and would zoom by cropping. Imagine a medium format size sensor with a fixed wide angle lens that could also be used like a telephoto. I'm sure camera design will get more radical, look at the Lytro. That might not be a great camera but it will make people think. The camera manufacturers need to keep innovating to make us want to buy their latest products.

It's reasonable. If manufacturing sensors tends to cost less in the long term than manufacturing lenses, it makes sense to build huge sensors and then crop to zoom. In general producing silicon scales in terms of costs very very quick.

sharpshot · « **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2012, 06:02 »

There's a review here. When I downsize the sample photos to around 8mp, they look good enough for the stock sites. I'll wait and see what the video quality is like.
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/8083837371/review-nokia-808-pureview

Wim · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2012, 07:32 »

grp_photo · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2012, 10:12 »

I have the 808 since a few days. It's still a phone camera but a very good one the quality can be very good but the circumstances have to be good (wideangle and enough light for the lowest iso), It's also a very good phone with a great free Navigator (maps are also free for the whole world). I'm satisfied.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2012, 16:20 »

Quote from: Fran on February 28, 2012, 20:33

Quote from: sharpshot on February 28, 2012, 03:26
I remember a lecture over 20 years ago about what cameras will be like in the future. One of the key points was that the camera would have a fixed lens and would zoom by cropping. Imagine a medium format size sensor with a fixed wide angle lens that could also be used like a telephoto. I'm sure camera design will get more radical, look at the Lytro. That might not be a great camera but it will make people think. The camera manufacturers need to keep innovating to make us want to buy their latest products.

It's reasonable. If manufacturing sensors tends to cost less in the long term than manufacturing lenses, it makes sense to build huge sensors and then crop to zoom. In general producing silicon scales in terms of costs very very quick.

But they want to sell lots of expensive lenses.

gostwyck · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2012, 16:52 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on July 31, 2012, 16:20

Quote from: Fran on February 28, 2012, 20:33
Quote from: sharpshot on February 28, 2012, 03:26
I remember a lecture over 20 years ago about what cameras will be like in the future. One of the key points was that the camera would have a fixed lens and would zoom by cropping. Imagine a medium format size sensor with a fixed wide angle lens that could also be used like a telephoto. I'm sure camera design will get more radical, look at the Lytro. That might not be a great camera but it will make people think. The camera manufacturers need to keep innovating to make us want to buy their latest products.

It's reasonable. If manufacturing sensors tends to cost less in the long term than manufacturing lenses, it makes sense to build huge sensors and then crop to zoom. In general producing silicon scales in terms of costs very very quick.

But they want to sell lots of expensive lenses.

What about the creativity of selective focus? I'd love to see how they are going to isolate a telephoto subject against the background via 'cropping'.

jm · « **Reply #18 on:** September 06, 2012, 02:35 »

Nokia's new PureView ad is amazing, too bad it's faked
http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/5/3294545/nokias-pureview-ads-are-fraudulent

leaf · « **Reply #19 on:** September 06, 2012, 03:02 »

Quote from: jm on September 06, 2012, 02:35

Nokia's new PureView ad is amazing, too bad it's faked
http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/5/3294545/nokias-pureview-ads-are-fraudulent

I know hey? After seeing that ad last night I was thinking - that phone isn't half bad. Maybe I should give up my iPhone and switch over to a windows phone with the new Nokia ... then this morning I saw that the ad was fake and who knows how good it 'really' is.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #20 on:** September 06, 2012, 06:09 »

Quote from: gostwyck on July 31, 2012, 16:52

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on July 31, 2012, 16:20
Quote from: Fran on February 28, 2012, 20:33
Quote from: sharpshot on February 28, 2012, 03:26
I remember a lecture over 20 years ago about what cameras will be like in the future. One of the key points was that the camera would have a fixed lens and would zoom by cropping. Imagine a medium format size sensor with a fixed wide angle lens that could also be used like a telephoto. I'm sure camera design will get more radical, look at the Lytro. That might not be a great camera but it will make people think. The camera manufacturers need to keep innovating to make us want to buy their latest products.

It's reasonable. If manufacturing sensors tends to cost less in the long term than manufacturing lenses, it makes sense to build huge sensors and then crop to zoom. In general producing silicon scales in terms of costs very very quick.

But they want to sell lots of expensive lenses.

What about the creativity of selective focus? I'd love to see how they are going to isolate a telephoto subject against the background via 'cropping'.

The more the image was digitally zoomed the more critical the point of focus would become, just the same way that a telephoto image that looks entirely in focus on a thumbnail develops selective focus when viewed full size in PS. The problem with this huge sensor would be understanding that you have to get ultra-sharp focus on the subject if you plan to crop, and that you can't zoom in on anything except that subject without getting a fuzzy result.

Another problem would be that either your pixels are packed as tight as in a camera phone. with the resulting quality constraints, or you would need a massive lens to throw the necessary size image circle onto the sensor.

To some extent we already do this "sensor zooming" by cropping the edges off images, either with a crop sensor in processing.