MicrostockGroup

I have had a 7D since they first came out.  I love that camera..... BUT....

There is a lot of noise in the dark or shaded areas of a low light shot that show up at ISO400 viewed at 100%.  I use Topaz denoise to get rid of it.  Does a great job it also robs some sharpness and detail.  And I am too lazy to do the 2 layer PS masking thing to fix it.

So I thought I would get a full frame...5DMKII for the higher ISO performance.

I posted a similar post on dpreview... and got a quick education about how my DOF will narrow.  To get the same DOF as my crop camera I will probably have to push the aperture open a couple of stops....which is about what I gained in ISO performance.  So it almost looks like its better to stick with my cropped 7D for those close in, low light shots.

Thoughts?

The 5DMII also has noise like any other camera. Maybe less noise, but it's still there. So I don't think your expectation should be that it lacks noise.

Unless it's a bright evenly exposed scene, ISO400 will probably still require work on the noise.

And I prefer the DOF of full frame over crop.

So, I'm not sure if you'd be any happier with a 5DMII. You may want to see if you can borrow or rent one to compare.

Noise problems are usually caused by user error, not by the camera. If you're getting unacceptable noise in the 7D, switching to the 5D II won't fixt the problem. Work out what is giving you problems and you'll get better results. I can't see why you'd need NR in either camera at these ISOs if the image is exposed properly.

The DOF difference is closer to 1 stop, not a couple (I assume that means 2).

Holgs,  is right, noise is often caused by wrong in-camera settings, unless youre using very high ISO, see you got to remember, the digital cameras are not perfected yet, not even the D3s, which is supposed to be the most noiseless camera on the planet.

I presume you shoot in Raw?  then turn sharpness OFF, noise-reduction OFF and a neutral picture setting, etc. When working on the shot in PS, try and avoid any sharpening.

Everything I do is in RAW.  I usually shoot in AV and bracket each shot at three shutter speeds, each about 1/3 to 2/3's of a stop difference in case I have not metered correctly.

My Histograms are usually centered and usually have to pull in the blacks and whites on curve adjustments to get a full spectrum curve.

Because of the available light and the fact that I am doing hand held held shots I am force into f2.8- 5.6 shots.  Many times the shots are from about 3' away.  I am using a 17-55mm 2.8 IS lens and speeds now lower than 1/40 sec.  Usually taking shots closer to the 55MM.   So my DOF is just a 2-3 inches.  All of this is only possible at ISO's of 400+.      So.... I normally have to clean up noise in the shadows and its tricky to get the DOF exactly where you want it and where it will be accepted by the microstock places.  I have found that with microstock a wider DOF image is much more likely to be accepted than a narrow one.  Or said another way.  A narrow DOF image must be very well done.

I am slowly convincing myself that the FF camera will not be a panacea for my problem.  And I just need to "man up" and bring a monopod or tripod to the farmers market with me (one of my favorite shooting spots).  And then kiss inconspicuousness away.

I have both cameras the image-output is a lot better with the 5DMarkII therefore I use the 7D only as a back-up or in situations where I need the faster AF, better syncro or the crop (in a sense that I have more tele).

I almost convinced myself there was no advantage for the kind of shooting that I do.

But I think I agree with you that bottom line image IQ, in most cases, will be the same or better than cropped frames.

So I think I will keep saving and wait for the 5DMIII so I can get the newest technology

Pulling shadows = huge increase in noise. Its better to shoot near the overexpose rather then trying to pull too dark frames. Just 0,7EV underexposure is sometimes enough to produce horrible noise. Especially sunsets with lot of dark areas are complete horror.

f32 on APS-C is nonsense, because of diffraction the result will be likely much worse then f16-22.

The DOF differenece between FF and APS-C is just one f-stop = good bright lens like 17-55/2,8 IS USM on 7D is regarding DOF the same like 24-105/4 L on 5D. In other words, except extreme shallow DOF at f1,4 or less, you can achieve the same on both APS-C and FF, its just the matter of the lens used. Extreme shallow DOF pics would not be accepted on micros anyway.

Right now, it's 8:30 AM, cloudy, raining, and pretty dim where I'm at.

A quick check on a dimly lit subject with my 5DMII with a 50mm shows a shutter speed of 60 at F11 and ISO100. At ISO400 it's at 250.

So like I said, it must be dark or indoors.

Here is an interesting possible reason for some lousy noise with tiny pixels...

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/an_open_letter_to_the_major_camera_manufacturers.shtml

basically with large f-stops (large openings) the light comes to the sensor at an angle, but the sensors don't "see" this light, so the camera makers cheat by essentially boosting the gain at those f-stops so you end up with more noise, and maybe not as much shallow DOF and bokeh as you might expect...

I'd really like to see something like the 7D with around 13 or 14 MP or a FF with around 18.

--=Tom