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Author Topic: Image storage options  (Read 12558 times)

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« on: September 19, 2009, 19:40 »
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Hi all:

Wanted to get your thoughts on how you usually store your photography images. My external hard drive  (seagate to be precise) decided to call it quit on me less than a year of purchase. Needless to say, I have to weigh the loss of my images versus the cost of recovering the data.

For you professional photographers out there, what is your advice on image storage option? Would love to hear your thoughts so no one, including myself, will not have to go through this nightmare.

Thank you,


« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2009, 02:25 »
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I run a Network Attached Storage with 2 terabyte drives on it. Backup every time that I add new photos. I've got a Linksys/Cicso NAS200 which is VERY slow, but it keeps my data safe. There are other, more expensive options out there, but I couldn't see spending the extra money to save a few seconds...

« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2009, 08:48 »
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I use http://carbonite.com/ for online backup. I have a second internal hard drive to storage my images. From time to time I burn DVD and then delete the data of the hard drive. If I need the files again, then I can load it from the DVD again.

« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2009, 14:34 »
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I use the Amazon S3 storage service via the JungleDisc backup client.  Once set up, it's a no-brainer.  Once a day it uploads anything new to my 'mirror' on S3.

« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2009, 15:46 »
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Call me paranoid, but I worry about 2 things when using online storage:

1. What might they be doing with my files without my knowledge?
2. What happens if the close?

I'm sure that all of you heard the massive outcry when tiny.url was going to close. Now imagine if the had all of your images! YIKES!! :o

« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2009, 16:24 »
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Professional Photographer Magazine has some excellent advice on a series of articles:  the bottom line is to have several backups, on HD, NAS and optical drives.

« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2009, 16:27 »
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I use a Sans Digital 4 bay RAID: http://tinyurl.com/n95rkb

« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2009, 16:39 »
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Hi all:

Wanted to get your thoughts on how you usually store your photography images. My external hard drive  (seagate to be precise) decided to call it quit on me less than a year of purchase. Needless to say, I have to weigh the loss of my images versus the cost of recovering the data.

For you professional photographers out there, what is your advice on image storage option? Would love to hear your thoughts so no one, including myself, will not have to go through this nightmare.

Thank you,

In what way has it "decided to call it quits"?

If it's still spinning and can be recognised by the BIOS there's a good chance the data is recoverable without great expense...

« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2009, 08:14 »
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1. Main storage location on my main workstation
2. weekly backup on an external HD, after sync stored it in a secure location (flood, bomb, earthquake proof - no joke)
3. weekly backup on a second external HD, after sync stored in a secure location, different place than #2.

Should be pretty safe...

bye!

lisafx

« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2009, 09:47 »
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One backup drive is not enough.  You should have every image stored on at least two different drives, that way when one fails or needs to be replaced you have everything on another drive to xfer to the new one.

I had tried a couple of different solutions including a DROBO, which I had heard really good things about.  In my case the DROBO died a couple of hours after being hooked up and nothing their support team tried could get it working again.  I probably just got a lemon, but was very glad it didn't die after I spent time loading all my data on it.

In the end, a few people recommended the Western Digital Mybook Mirror Raid external drive and I have had it for nearly a year with no problems.  I did end up configuring it for the full 2tb instead of two 1tb redundant units.  Because I am paranoid I have to have everything backed up on a separate unit anyway (2tb Lacie) so no reason not to use my full 2tb.

I admit, my solution isn't pretty.  I have currently 6 external drives lined up on my desk area, but at least there is no way I am losing anything :D

« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2009, 09:51 »
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elvinstar, you can't eliminate every risk.  Amazon S3 includes an option for strong encryption of your files, if you're worried about someone at Amazon stealing your images.   Amazon is a big and successful company, I'm not worried about them going down anytime soon and even if they did, they wouldn't just go dark overnight because many big businesses are using S3 storage.  For example, I believe all of SmugMug's content is on S3.

« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2009, 10:09 »
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I have 14 WD myBooks of varying size on my bookshelf, and archives of those away from my house.

PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2009, 13:03 »
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I just picked up an Acer H340 Windows Home Server.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859321013

Pretty slick.

Comes with a 1TB drive and has 3 empty drive swappable bays for a total of 7TB of space (or 8TB if you replace the original drive with a 2TB)

The multiple drives can be configured for RAID so if one drive fails you swap it out and it regenerates.

You can connect up to 10 computers and it can do full auto backup and restore. And by restore I mean if your PC dies it will fully restore it. You can also restore specific files and folders instead of a full restore. I haven't tried this but from what I've read it works pretty well.

Also allows remote access to computers via Remote Desktop. One downside I already found is that it will back up any Windows XP, Vista, 7 computer but only allows remote access to Windows systems that support Remote Desktop like XP Professional.

It's a full backup system at less than the cost of a NAS. Plus it does quite a bit more.

So I'd say this is worth a look.

alias

« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2009, 13:23 »
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To the people using only NAS, RAID and multiple drives attached, ultimately, to a single power source: an electrical failure, power surge or lightening strike could take it all out. Surge protection is not a guarantee especially if something fails upstream.

The multiple backup drives should not be connected simultaneously.

« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2009, 14:06 »
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I understand the appeal of managing your own backup hardware. You're in control and you know what you have.  But Amazon S3 relieves me of al that effort and expense for a few dollars a month.  My images are backed up offsite, redundantly stored on servers managed by Amazon.  I'm out of the hardware business altogether.  Lightning could strike my power lines, or a fire could take out my whole house and I'd still have my images.


« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2009, 15:53 »
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I understand the appeal of managing your own backup hardware. You're in control and you know what you have.  But Amazon S3 relieves me of al that effort and expense for a few dollars a month. 

It looks like quite a few $'s per month to me unless I'm misunderstanding things. Just 1TB of storage (about what I'd need) would be over $100 per month before any data transfer fees, etc. I could almost buy a new 500GB drive per month for that sort of money.

To be honest it wouldn't be the end of the world for me if all my existing data disappeared one day __ inconvenient but it probably wouldn't really cost me much money as most of the value within it has already been exported to the agencies. The really valuable stuff, my 3000-odd processed stock images, are effectively backed up on several servers at several agencies.

This is such a fast-moving game nowdays that last month's shoot is becoming like last month's newspapers. Process/upload the images from one shoot, move on and do another shoot having hopefully learned a little from the mistakes of the previous one. It amazes me how quickly I am almost forgetting the work I did just a few weeks ago.

« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2009, 16:41 »
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Quote
To the people using only NAS, RAID and multiple drives attached, ultimately, to a single power source: an electrical failure, power surge or lightening strike could take it all out. Surge protection is not a guarantee especially if something fails upstream.


Good point! Our house got struck by lightning a couple years ago, but luckily, it only fried my modem, router and network card.

Quote
I just picked up an Acer H340 Windows Home Server.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859321013

Pretty slick.


That looks like a good option, but I bought my NAS used and got it for under $100 so I'll be holding on to it for a while even though it is SO SLOW!!  :-\

lisafx

« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2009, 16:57 »
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I understand the appeal of managing your own backup hardware. You're in control and you know what you have.  But Amazon S3 relieves me of al that effort and expense for a few dollars a month.  

It looks like quite a few $'s per month to me unless I'm misunderstanding things. Just 1TB of storage (about what I'd need) would be over $100 per month before any data transfer fees, etc. I could almost buy a new 500GB drive per month for that sort of money.


Yes, very expensive indeed.  I calculated roughly how much storage I would need and it would be several hundred dollars a month.  

@ alias - why should multiple hard drives not be connected simultaneously?  I have been doing it this way for five years with no problems.  

FWIW my husband is a master electrician so we have serious surge protection installed at our breaker panel.  

I would still be open to online storage, but not at the current prices I have been able to find.  I doubt I could pass as a "personal account" holder with the volume I shoot, and the business prices are just too high. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 17:13 by lisafx »

« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2009, 17:09 »
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Yes if you have terabytes, S3 is expensive.  I only have gigabytes.


PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2009, 17:31 »
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My plan is to back up to my Acer WHS which gets backed up to an online backup.

I looked into S3 and for me it would be almost $100 per month.

I'm currently evaluating Fabrik which is Hitachi's online backup. $5 per month unlimited storage. Also am looking into Carbonite. One problem is that it looks like the initial data load of almost 1TB for online backups could take a long time. Days? Weeks?

« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2009, 18:07 »
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That's definitely another problem with online backup... Even with broadband so affordable, most ISP's still have fairly slow upstream connections which makes putting your entire portfolio up somewhere a VERY time consuming process.

« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2009, 18:11 »
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I have two external HDs. I know I should be keeping one outside home, but I never do it - there is much more I would lose if a fire destroyed our ap (knock on wood).

Also in special situations, like a trip, I burn two sets of DVDs.

« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2009, 20:53 »
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That's definitely another problem with online backup... Even with broadband so affordable, most ISP's still have fairly slow upstream connections which makes putting your entire portfolio up somewhere a VERY time consuming process.
Amazon now lets you ship them physical media for archiving.

« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2009, 23:08 »
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That's good to know!

KB

« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2009, 23:33 »
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I have two external HDs. I know I should be keeping one outside home, but I never do it - there is much more I would lose if a fire destroyed our ap (knock on wood).
Same here. But I keep mine in fire-proof media safes (about $50 each at Home Depot or Lowes if you're in the US). Not all external drives will fit, but many of them do.

« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2009, 01:46 »
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I have 3 backups on external drives :

A drive with backup of the raw files;
A drive with backup of the tiff files;
A drive with backup of the finished Jpg file.

1 working drive, also external that is being used while working on files, it also contains all unfinished shooting sessions.

Complementary an extra external drive with all finished files uploaded and waiting to be uploaded with a folder system for the stock sites.... from this drive an update is being made on a monthly basis and is stored in a bank safe.

Patrick H.

« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2009, 07:11 »
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You can never have too much back-up! Images are on my laptop HD plus 4 external HD.
One HD is storaged in my safe deposit at the bank. I also back-up programs files on the HD, I can go to any PC that has an usb port and plug-in and operate.

I also use Smugmugs for my website and they back-up to three different locations across the country every night. If also else fail I can request dvd from them for about $25.

Think about the time and money it took to create your images, it will make back-up storage look cheap.

« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2009, 07:27 »
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I am mainly worried about my wedding photos. After a wedding they are either stored on the CF-Cards and one computer OR when I need the CF-Cards on two computers. When I am done with editing they get uploaded to Smugmug. Having them on one harddrive and Smugmug is save enough for me. I never had a failure with my harddrive and both smugmug and harddrive failing at once is pretty unlikely.
Smugmug is reasonable cheap and has unlimited storage. At the same time my smugmug account is also a backup for my clients. They can access their high res photos on smugmug as long as my account exists.

« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2009, 08:22 »
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I realize that for terabytes of images, online storage is costly. The situation with stock photographers is a bit atypical.  A big corporation with terabytes of data wouldn't blink at paying a couple hundred a month for offsite backup, because the value of the data is huge.  A microstock photographer puts a value on those images based on what they can earn, and balances that against what he can afford.

Nevertheless, I don't want to be doing this for myself - messing with removable drives, fireproof safes, redundant backup, shuttling a copy back and forth to another location.  It's an expense and a hassle, and it's also boring and easily put off. Seems like a no-brainer for an online service. They just have to get the prices down, and I'm sure that will happen in time. 

alias

« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2009, 09:20 »
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@ alias - why should multiple hard drives not be connected simultaneously?  I have been doing it this way for five years with no problems.

Because what kills one drive may affect or ITWCS kill all of them if they are all connected simultaneously. Eg a power surge, spike or strike.

Even if you have surge protection. Because surge protection may not always protect you against a surge and probably won't protect you against a strike.

And because all the bits of equipment on the safe(r) side of the surge protection are vulnerable to each other causing the problem.

eg if you use USB backup drives then they should be completely disconnected when not in use. All the cables discounted Not just powered off.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 09:28 by alias »

« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2009, 09:24 »
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My problem is a bit different - being on the road means that my external hard drives have a much shorter life expectancy to ones sitting on a shelf, so I basically back everything up onto DVDs which are eventually sent back to Australia, as well as having copies of everything on portable hard drives.

Processed files are all uploaded to Photoshelter, which also allows for distribution via FTP to various stock sites. I'm also trying out Isyndicata at the moment and will do a review of the 2 options in a month or so for anyone who's interested.

alias

« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2009, 09:29 »
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Some dvds and cds I burned a few years ago and never used were unreadable when I went back to them.

« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2009, 10:56 »
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I am mainly worried about my wedding photos.

Do you shoot penguin weddings?  ;D

Some dvds and cds I burned a few years ago and never used were unreadable when I went back to them.

I've always read about problems with CDs and DVDs, I personally never had a problem with good brands (Maxell, Sony, TDK), but I knowm many people do.  My problems have always been failures at burning only.

« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2009, 11:21 »
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The unreliablity of the media is another reason I don't want to do my own backup.

As a software developer I've done a lot of work with systems that record CDs, DVDs and Blu-Ray discs.  The drives sold to consumers are as cheap and flimsy as the manufacturers can make them.   The situation with Blue-Ray drives is particularly bad. I have them on hand, for projects I've worked on, but have found them so flaky and unreliable I'd never use them for anything important.   Because of the low market uptake of Blu-Ray in general, and the fact that few consumers will record on them, I question whether the quality problems will ever really be solved.

With CDs/DVDs/Blu-Ray, blank media (discs) are a totally price-driven commodity and buying a "brand name" guarantees nothing except a nice logo printed on top. You can never be sure of success when recording, or confident that you'll be able to read the discs later on another drive. These products are aimed at kids burning MP3s and recording movies; they're not industrial strength and never will be.

So you guys managing your backups on DVDs may find yourselves hitting a wall eventually. When you have more data than you can manage by burning DVDs,  you may not be able to just move up to Blu-Ray.    I think the future is on-line storage but I agree the price has to come way down.

« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2009, 11:23 »
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zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2009, 13:36 »
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Just got an email announcing the Mac version of a product we use in the intranet: http://www.southrivertech.com/products/webdrive/mac/index.html

The PC version has Amazon S3 integration and works quite well.. hopefully the Mac version will followup with that feature soon.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 13:38 by zymmetrical »


 

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