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Author Topic: Dreamstime - Is it time to leave  (Read 15187 times)

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« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2009, 16:16 »
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Dt is a very good agency.  Now, if I could only opt out from subs, I would love them.

Regards.
Adelaide

Dito... ;D

Patrick H.


« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2009, 17:52 »
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Always loved DT, never any problems with me.

e-person

« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2009, 18:02 »
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I don't like DT. Never did. If they did not have the six months ransom on your photos before you can delete them, and if they did not lock your editing if you delete one photo, I could even evaluate them as average agency. But, given the previous facts, I can not and will never recommend them to anyone.

That said, in order to use FTP, you have to enable it in your control panel.  :)

« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2009, 18:36 »
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Reading all the replies it's clear what the majority here think :)

I'm in the same boat as everyone else, love DT, their stats, growing sales, site etc... it's my No3 site in terms of income but No1 in terms of use

jim_h

« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2009, 18:56 »
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In the midst of all these paeans to DT I'd like to offer a contrasting opinion.  I started doing microstock a couple months ago and have about 40 photos on several sites.  Disclaimer: I'm never going to be hot, I'm just doing objects, my expectations are low, my conclusions apply only to myself. 

I made a few sales on DT in the first 2 weeks, then nothing. After a month, I rather suddenly stopped getting any more views of either old OR recently submitted photos. This pattern was repeated on a couple of other sites.

SS however was completely different. Same photos, but over 10 times the sales, which are continuing. Of course this is mostly 25 cent subscription sales. But I've stopped submitting to any agency except SS, the others are now "dead" as far as my account is concerned. 

I draw 2 conclusions. The main one is that if you're new and don't start selling right away, you're downgraded at some point and might as well give up because people aren't even seeing your images any more. It's not hard to figure this out.  Reviewing is expensive - maybe the biggest cost of running a microstock business - and if you're not selling, they're losing money by paying people to review your images and would really like you to just go away. 

The other conclusion is that ShutterStock does things differently, or maybe the probation period is just longer - we'll see.



« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 19:05 by jim_h »

« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2009, 19:19 »
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DT has many achievements to be pround of, that is out of question.

Frankly, DT, as well as FT and IS, could have used more diplomacy and courtesy in the contributor relationship department.

When unpleasant situations did not happen to many of the contributors, they did happen to others. Perhaps we could have been more sympathetic to our colleagues.

I think Steve Oh is the most responsive one. That is my personal opinion, others may have issues with StockXpert too.

« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2009, 21:18 »
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In the midst of all these paeans to DT I'd like to offer a contrasting opinion.

Hm, what's your authority on this? In the other rant about iStock you refused to show the photo they rejected, but you kept complaining about it. A complaint now again. Where is your portfolio? If all those sites are so wrong, I would start to think that it's not about the sites, but about me:P

jim_h

« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2009, 21:29 »
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Who said they were wrong?  As I explained, this sort of "profiling", if its happening, makes perfect sense to me. My acceptance rate is very high (except on IS), but the photos just aren't the sort of thing that sells on those sites, so why should they continue paying reviewers to look at them?  Just smart business.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 21:31 by jim_h »

« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2009, 22:03 »
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In the midst of all these paeans to DT I'd like to offer a contrasting opinion.  I started doing microstock a couple months ago and have about 40 photos on several sites.  Disclaimer: I'm never going to be hot, I'm just doing objects, my expectations are low, my conclusions apply only to myself. 

I made a few sales on DT in the first 2 weeks, then nothing. After a month, I rather suddenly stopped getting any more views of either old OR recently submitted photos. This pattern was repeated on a couple of other sites.

SS however was completely different. Same photos, but over 10 times the sales, which are continuing. Of course this is mostly 25 cent subscription sales. But I've stopped submitting to any agency except SS, the others are now "dead" as far as my account is concerned. 

I draw 2 conclusions. The main one is that if you're new and don't start selling right away, you're downgraded at some point and might as well give up because people aren't even seeing your images any more. It's not hard to figure this out.  Reviewing is expensive - maybe the biggest cost of running a microstock business - and if you're not selling, they're losing money by paying people to review your images and would really like you to just go away. 

The other conclusion is that ShutterStock does things differently, or maybe the probation period is just longer - we'll see.


Or maybe 40 files over "a couple of months" just isn't enough to make conclusions like the ones you seem to have already made. There are plenty of contributors here that base their conclusions on portfolios over 100 times the size of yours and over a period of years rather than months.

Personally I agree with the support that DT gets. The bottom line for me is that it makes me money. Regularly. An added bonus is that I like the review processes, the forums, and that support there gets back to me quickly.

« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2009, 22:14 »
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I draw 2 conclusions. The main one is that if you're new and don't start selling right away, you're downgraded at some point and might as well give up because people aren't even seeing your images any more. It's not hard to figure this out.  Reviewing is expensive - maybe the biggest cost of running a microstock business - and if you're not selling, they're losing money by paying people to review your images and would really like you to just go away. 

 Completely incorrect and on par with the rest of your uninformed and negative rants.. It has to do with your approval rate as well as your keywording, descriptions, image titles and obviously quality.. My guess is 2 or more of these for you are not up to par.. SS is easy to get new stuff downloaded, and you will soon see that the new image factor will fall away and the true test of your skills will be tested..

jim_h

« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2009, 22:31 »
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Acceptance on DT is about 70%, better on SS. To recap: on SS I make 10x what I make on DT, and on DT, I made no sales after the first 2 weeks, and after a month I get essentially no views on anything, old or new. How else to explain these numbers, except to conclude that DT is quicker to de-rate a submitter who isn't producing revenue? 

« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 22:38 by jim_h »

« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2009, 00:01 »
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I think you will find the same for most others in here Jim where shutterstock makes between 30% to 60% of their microstock income. This is mainly due their size ,number of customers and low prices as opposed to other places. Still this thread isn't about performance of DT but about the usability factor, by which it seems most of us contributors seem rather pleased with DT.

« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2009, 00:23 »
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-Their only credible resource has announced she's leaving.

-It's impossible to upload there using any FTP software.


#1 I never considered her credible.
#2 I use Filezilla and it works.

My $ per sale has gone up up up in the last 3 months, but the numbers are down. In the end I am about 5% up on sales.

« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2009, 00:34 »
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How come those who complain the most don't have links to their portfolios?

« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2009, 00:44 »
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I have never known anybody to get their editing locked for deleting one photo.  I have often in the past deleted photos with no problem.
and if they did not lock your editing if you delete one photo,

« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2009, 03:52 »
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Acceptance on DT is about 70%, better on SS. To recap: on SS I make 10x what I make on DT, and on DT, I made no sales after the first 2 weeks, and after a month I get essentially no views on anything, old or new. How else to explain these numbers, except to conclude that DT is quicker to de-rate a submitter who isn't producing revenue? 


DT is completely different to SS.  It can take months for new uploads to sell but then sales are steady and don't plummet as much if you stop uploading.  I didn't like DT for my first 6 months there but my sales have grown steadily since then.

« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2009, 03:55 »
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I have been with DT for a number of years. Sales haven't been as good for me as they used to, but it is still worth my time. The site is running well and is well managed. I often read in this forum about people threatening to leave sites. I don't quite understand that. You don't have to like a site or their management in order to stay and make some money. That's just my two cents.

« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2009, 04:50 »
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Wow it looks like I've stirred up a hornets nest here, Dreamstime is a popular site amongst contributors no doubt, however my view on sites are not how nicey touchy they are, I do this for a living and I'm very successful at it, I appreciate that many replies here are from those who are looking to make a few bucks each month and as such the friendly side of a site is important, however in business the base line is the only thing that counts I couldn't care less how friendly the management are it's nett profit that is the only important thing for me.

Re FTP - search their forum, just because something isn't happening to you doesn't mean you should dismiss others opinions, there is a problem with FTP there - for some, unfortunately the management at DT take the same dismissive approach as many here.

Re Ellen - Whatever your opinion of her, the fact remains she was brought in because of her reputation in the industry, Dreamstime are a tiny drop in the stock industry ocean, without a 'name' behind them I'm wondering whether they will suffer.

Re the breach - iStock were the only agency professional enough to admit it happened and publicly announced it, full credit to them it's what sets them apart. They weren't the only agency who were targeted and this has been going on for a couple of weeks.

Re the editor - As a professional I want my work reviewed to a high standard, obviously a site like Dreamstime is going to struggle to get a decent reviewer to work for them, if someone knows what they're doing they'll be out there doing it, so I accept reviewers might not be great photographers but what I don't want to see is lack of knowledge of the industry, Dreamstime have employed this guy and I ask what that says about their standards.

As for sales figures, I'm basing my views on a strong growth margin at nearly every site except Dreamstime, for some of you making 10,20 or 50 dollars a month a low percentage drop is not significant, when it gets into hundreds at a time every other site is steadily growing at a time of worldwide recession you'll understand why I said what I did.

As for being anonymous, if you don't understand why then you need a bit more experience in the industry.

For the record I think the folk at DT are nice too, I think the folk at iS are complete a**holes but they are the market leaders, guess which site I prefer  ;)

 

e-person

« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2009, 05:03 »
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I have never known anybody to get their editing locked for deleting one photo.  I have often in the past deleted photos with no problem.
and if they did not lock your editing if you delete one photo,

They do. Are you willing to believe me, or do you need evidence?
Why don't you start with a search, and you will find it does happen.
If you come to see me, I can always show you from one of my computers, btw.
Not that this is going to last long. By June I will be leaving the site.

« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2009, 05:08 »
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I wasn't disbelieving you just very surprised about it happening for deleting just one image as I have many times in the past deleted images with no problem,  Could it be to do with the reason you put for deleting the image?

I have never known anybody to get their editing locked for deleting one photo.  I have often in the past deleted photos with no problem.
and if they did not lock your editing if you delete one photo,

They do. Are you willing to believe me, or do you need evidence?
Why don't you start with a search, and you will find it does happen.
If you come to see me, I can always show you from one of my computers, btw.
Not that this is going to last long. By June I will be leaving the site.


« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2009, 05:18 »
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Many of us that have commented in this thread are also successful at this and making 100s a month on this site but I still don't agree with most of your points.  Dt doesn't make as much for me as SS, IS and Fot but it comes in as a respectful 4th place. If as you say you are making 100s of $s a month then I don't know why you would be considering leaving.  Downloads are also going down a bit for me at DT but earnings are going up as more and more images reach high level pricing.
And yes I do agree with you about being anonymous ;)

Wow it looks like I've stirred up a hornets nest here, Dreamstime is a popular site amongst contributors no doubt, however my view on sites are not how nicey touchy they are, I do this for a living and I'm very successful at it, I appreciate that many replies here are from those who are looking to make a few bucks each month and as such the friendly side of a site is important, however in business the base line is the only thing that counts I couldn't care less how friendly the management are it's nett profit that is the only important thing for me.

Re FTP - search their forum, just because something isn't happening to you doesn't mean you should dismiss others opinions, there is a problem with FTP there - for some, unfortunately the management at DT take the same dismissive approach as many here.

Re Ellen - Whatever your opinion of her, the fact remains she was brought in because of her reputation in the industry, Dreamstime are a tiny drop in the stock industry ocean, without a 'name' behind them I'm wondering whether they will suffer.

Re the breach - iStock were the only agency professional enough to admit it happened and publicly announced it, full credit to them it's what sets them apart. They weren't the only agency who were targeted and this has been going on for a couple of weeks.

Re the editor - As a professional I want my work reviewed to a high standard, obviously a site like Dreamstime is going to struggle to get a decent reviewer to work for them, if someone knows what they're doing they'll be out there doing it, so I accept reviewers might not be great photographers but what I don't want to see is lack of knowledge of the industry, Dreamstime have employed this guy and I ask what that says about their standards.

As for sales figures, I'm basing my views on a strong growth margin at nearly every site except Dreamstime, for some of you making 10,20 or 50 dollars a month a low percentage drop is not significant, when it gets into hundreds at a time every other site is steadily growing at a time of worldwide recession you'll understand why I said what I did.

As for being anonymous, if you don't understand why then you need a bit more experience in the industry.

For the record I think the folk at DT are nice too, I think the folk at iS are complete a**holes but they are the market leaders, guess which site I prefer  ;)

 

jim_h

« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2009, 11:00 »
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DT is completely different to SS.  It can take months for new uploads to sell but then sales are steady and don't plummet as much if you stop uploading.  I didn't like DT for my first 6 months there but my sales have grown steadily since then.
Interesting and I've been told this before (maybe by you).  It's hard for me to believe this, because I see my 'views' dropping down to nothing, but maybe I'll continue submitting to them and see what happens.

I think your other point - sales collapse if you stop uploading - sort of agrees with my conclusion that your whole account - not just an individual photo - is derated if you're not producing.  And also that the microstock sites' business models are based on subscriptions, which in turn are fed largely by new photos.

What a microstock company wants is the predictable revenue of a subscription base, and my guess is that subscribers download a lot of images they don't actually need, most of which come from the new submissions.  A nice money machine which just about runs itself, driven by photographers madly pumping out images for 25 cents in hopes of bigger sales later...  as you can see I have my doubts. ;)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 11:04 by jim_h »

« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2009, 09:33 »
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I have a lot of problems with DT.  Mostly I am not happy with my sales there.  I could blame my small (142) portfolio but my smaller(121/118)) FT/IS ports have outperformed DT for a long time and other sites (StockXpert, SS) do much better on a per image basis with larger ports. Even 123Rf beat them last month!

I would like to have a larger portfolio but their review system is very slow and I still have not figured out what they want.  It took me awhile to realize that acceptatnce percentage was very important so over the last 8 months or so I have only submitted images that are accepted at multiple other sites.  This has brought me up to 60% but it makes it difficult to build a substantial portfolio - and I guess uploading in dribs and drabs may be holding down my sales.

Others complain about FTs commission drop but I would rather be with them and make some money than with DT and - to date - not make anything.  At FT I not only make more I can take it out at $50 with DT I still have not reached their $100 payout limit.

I hope you all realize that this high payout level is money in DT's pocket.  Many contributors (I seen estimates as high as 80%) never reach payout and others like me have too small a portfolio to reach payout very often so they get free use of the money I make.  FT's commission drops are a much more honest way to make money than DT's high payout limit.  The only site I know of with a $100 limit is IS and they get the traffic to justify it.  DT really doesn't.

fred
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 09:37 by Fred »

tan510jomast

« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2009, 10:31 »
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(  edited for brevity)

For the record I think the folk at DT are nice too, I think the folk at iS are complete a**holes but they are the market leaders, guess which site I prefer  ;)

um, let me guess ! IS?  ;D   just kidding ,wake  ;) 

« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2009, 11:24 »
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Wow - how can you even begin to analyze micro stock companies results with a portfolio of on 142 images - and I would guess those 142 images haven't been available online for long either?  Even 3 years ago I was told by very knowledgeable and successful contributors that I couldn't expect much until my portfolio was over 100 images - and now that there are contributors with portfolios over 15,000 images that advice has been revised to a much higher number.  DT has been a bit slow for me lately too but that's beside the point.  DT is not some startup site struggling to get buyers.  So unless you have the most amazing 142 images that are at the top of the heap in appeal and quality, you don't have the return from your portfolio to be too serious about analyzing traffic and portfolio performance.  My portfolio is almost 10 times larger and I know it's still tiny compared to the portfolios that drive these markets.  I go to the contributors that have these large portfolios and ask THEM what the trends are.  Go to Yuri Acurs website (www.arcurs.com) and check out his data and statistics on the various websites - unless he's just making stuff up he has enough (understatement of the year) data to make an informed statement about the trends of the various websites as well as the needs of photo buyers.



I have a lot of problems with DT.  Mostly I am not happy with my sales there.  I could blame my small (142) portfolio but my smaller(121/118)) FT/IS ports have outperformed DT for a long time and other sites (StockXpert, SS) do much better on a per image basis with larger ports. Even 123Rf beat them last month!

I would like to have a larger portfolio but their review system is very slow and I still have not figured out what they want.  It took me awhile to realize that acceptatnce percentage was very important so over the last 8 months or so I have only submitted images that are accepted at multiple other sites.  This has brought me up to 60% but it makes it difficult to build a substantial portfolio - and I guess uploading in dribs and drabs may be holding down my sales.

Others complain about FTs commission drop but I would rather be with them and make some money than with DT and - to date - not make anything.  At FT I not only make more I can take it out at $50 with DT I still have not reached their $100 payout limit.

I hope you all realize that this high payout level is money in DT's pocket.  Many contributors (I seen estimates as high as 80%) never reach payout and others like me have too small a portfolio to reach payout very often so they get free use of the money I make.  FT's commission drops are a much more honest way to make money than DT's high payout limit.  The only site I know of with a $100 limit is IS and they get the traffic to justify it.  DT really doesn't.

fred


 

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