Author Topic: New to DT, question about sales (Read 9438 times)

yz5550 · « **on:** December 16, 2013, 17:04 »

Hello All:

I have been selling stock photos for about a year, mainly on Shutterstock. About a month ago I uploaded my entire portfolio on DT, and have about 1200 photos online.

But for the past mouth I only had one subscription sell, so I question I'm doing anything wrong. I have almost exactly the same photos on DT as on SS, but why on SS I get about 20 sells a day, but on DT I only got 1 sell in a month.

For each photo on the right management area, I checked all but the exclusive box, does this have anything to do with my low selling rate?

Thank you very much for any help!

fritz · « **Reply #1 on:** December 16, 2013, 17:20 »

Don't worry! That's normal for DT

ignard · « **Reply #2 on:** December 16, 2013, 17:40 »

Downloads are expected to start after a month on DT. My port is about 400 photos on SS with an average sale of 14 a day. ON DT it is 1 a day

djpadavona · « **Reply #3 on:** December 16, 2013, 18:26 »

Posts like this usually bring out the DT haters, so I will simply point to the right at the MSG Poll results. The results show Dreamstime is in the Top Tier of all microstock agencies for total revenue, and that (as a rough estimate) Shutterstock earns about 3x to 3.5x what Dreamstime earns for the people who participate in the poll.

The key with DT is patience, and allowing your images to rise in level. Once you have a portfolio full of Level 3 to Level 5 images, the earnings are quite nice. Sure there is plenty that people will complain about, namely their similars policy and the 6 month portfolio lock. But overall the stats show that they are solid. In truth, they are one of the few microstock agencies which I don't dislike. And these days, that is really saying something.

wordplanet · « **Reply #4 on:** December 16, 2013, 19:53 »

I only have 150 photos on DT but have been with them a few years - most of my files are level 3-5 and I have sales pretty much every day despite the small portfolio ( average this month is actually >1/day). Not happy that they've added subscription sales but I get plenty of regular ones too. Past few months DT has really picked up. In fact, as of now this month I've earned twice as much there as at shutterstock (though many more sales on SS), which is usually my best earner and where I have 200 files. I'd say be patient and let your files start to move up in searches.

Stock photography requires patience but with 1200 files on DT I'd imagine DT will start to work well for you soon. Good luck!

lisafx · « **Reply #5 on:** December 16, 2013, 21:52 »

Quote from: djpadavona on December 16, 2013, 18:26

The key with DT is patience, and allowing your images to rise in level. Once you have a portfolio full of Level 3 to Level 5 images, the earnings are quite nice. Sure there is plenty that people will complain about, namely their similars policy and the 6 month portfolio lock. But overall the stats show that they are solid. In truth, they are one of the few microstock agencies which I don't dislike. And these days, that is really saying something.

Great post Dan! I agree with all your points.

I was going to say the same thing about giving it some time to let your portfolio start to earn. Dreamstime is more like the tortoise than the hare. It is slower building up sales there, but once you are established, the sales at DT hold up much better than many others. Of all the sites I am on, Dreamstime continues to earn steadily for me even when others are declining in sales.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 17, 2013, 08:19 »

I have more downloads every weekday at SS than all month at DT, they are my 9/10th best agency

lisafx · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2013, 13:18 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on December 17, 2013, 08:19

I have more downloads every weekday at SS than all month at DT, they are my 9/10th best agency

SS outsells DT for me too, but my sales there have declined by about 1/3 from their highs, while DT sales have held steady for me.

Pixart · « **Reply #8 on:** December 17, 2013, 14:21 »

Also, make sure your most important keywords are in your title, description and keywords. DT search also favours those with a high acceptance ratio.

heywoody · « **Reply #9 on:** December 17, 2013, 18:07 »

Agree with Dan & Lisa. Another thing about DT is that less is more as far as keywords are concerned -as I believe lots of keywords hits relevancy.

Edit. IS, FT haters I understand but why DT? They have not spectacularly screwed contributors as far as I am aware.

pancaketom · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2013, 00:08 »

Quote from: heywoody on December 17, 2013, 18:07

Agree with Dan & Lisa. Another thing about DT is that less is more as far as keywords are concerned -as I believe lots of keywords hits relevancy.

Edit. IS, FT haters I understand but why DT? They have not spectacularly screwed contributors as far as I am aware.

Nope, only mildly (up to 50% drop in percentage for level 0 sales and 66% drop for upper level subs sales), and it wasn't hidden.

Red Dove · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2013, 08:18 »

The thing about the sales pattern with DT is that there is no sales pattern with DT. Not for daily or weekly downloads anyway. I only get into a flap over quarterly/annual results which are both up year on year.

Stick with them.

djpadavona · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2013, 13:10 »

Like the avatar Red Dove. Definitely one of my favorite albums of all-time.

Metsafile · « **Reply #13 on:** December 19, 2013, 13:26 »

Not only a great album but I love the way the Clash they paid homage to Elvis' first lp.

sdeva · « **Reply #14 on:** December 20, 2013, 08:21 »

Very much agree with Dan and Lisa - DT sales climb with time and I've had 3 (out of last 6) months with BME or near BME sales. In months with lower sales its usually the new stuff or more of sub sales which drag down the numbers. If only Subs didn't exist, this would be my dream site (no pun intended)

Phadrea · « **Reply #15 on:** December 27, 2013, 13:10 »

I find sales at DT pathetic. Constantly adding to my port but no sales. It's abysmal to say the least. After a long dry time you get a quick burst of a few small sales and then back to the desert. They didn't even get me an extended licence for a shot used in a movie poster !

Mantis · « **Reply #16 on:** December 27, 2013, 13:21 »

Quote from: Pixart on December 17, 2013, 14:21

Also, make sure your most important keywords are in your title, description and keywords. DT search also favours those with a high acceptance ratio.

Another quirk of an ms site but important to remember. Serbian once said that the search does add weight to titles and descriptions, but only a little. In any event all titles and descriptions should be constructed that way across all sites....you never know what shinnanigans ....I mean strategy....sites will massage.

Phadrea · « **Reply #17 on:** December 30, 2013, 04:33 »

Quote from: sdeva on December 20, 2013, 08:21

Very much agree with Dan and Lisa - DT sales climb with time and I've had 3 (out of last 6) months with BME or near BME sales. In months with lower sales its usually the new stuff or more of sub sales which drag down the numbers. If only Subs didn't exist, this would be my dream site (no pun intended)

Well I can say they do not climb with time from my experience. The opposite in fact. When I first joined my sales were very good. 3 years down the line with MORE images added, high acceptance rate they are terrible.

Metsafile · « **Reply #18 on:** December 30, 2013, 04:59 »

For along time I was disappointed with DT. I had expected a lot more from them being my first micro stock experience as a buyer. Looking at the quarterly results over the last 3 years I see steady growth with a good, but not great, last quarter of this year.

Phadrea · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2014, 09:17 »

Still abysmal after all the new files I have added in the last year. I love the way you get a run of sales getting your expectations up and then it drops off again to zero. What's the point ?

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #20 on:** January 10, 2014, 09:32 »

Going back to the OP, I wonder if uploading an entire portfolio at once is a good strategy: it will then all sink together in the search and you lose the benefit of a steady stream of new uploads encouraging people to look at the rest of your portfolio.
I don't doubt that the lack of an established record of sales will also hurt your search ranking, and if you get one sale from 1,200 files it probable does a lot less to boost the ranking of the others than if you had one sale from 12 or from 120.
I've had 14 sales today from 4,000 uploads - the trouble is that every one of them is a 35c sub, non-sub sales seem to be becoming rarer and rarer and my RPD is dropping accordingly.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #21 on:** January 10, 2014, 10:42 »

DT performed surprisingly well (for them) in November and December, but this month - always a slow one - is back to normal. Masses of subscription sales.

What I found a bit disconcerting was looking at some of my level 5 image sales and noticing that the few that weren't subs were those highly discounted numbers of credits - I think that's a new buyer deal of some sort. It's certainly nice to see images get lots of downloads, but at DT it's a double-edged sword as I think it means your proportion of subs for those images will increase.

I should note that I haven't gone back to analyze all the sales data. These observations were from looking at a few of my level 5 images after I saw a very low royalty on a sale at maximum size.

edited to add - right on cue, I got another of those discounted sales for a level 5 image to with today's bunch of subs sales. 10 credits for a large that should be 17 credits!

wordplanet · « **Reply #22 on:** January 10, 2014, 13:00 »

I've found the last quarter sales have been very strong with a BME for me in October and some nice credit sales this month (though many sub sales of my Level 4 & 5s too). Despite the uptick in sub sales and fewer credit sales, my income there has climbed steadily. I did get an annoying rejection of a city skyline with many buildings taken from a public street for "potential trademark violations" which shows the reviewer's lack of understanding today, but on balance DT has been a good site to deal with and sales continue to grow steadily. Notwithstanding a dismal 2nd quarter last year, income was up 77% in 2013 over 2012, with a portfolio increase of only 30%.

I also like the fact that you can choose to make some files exclusive - I've done that with a few I felt were good after they were rejected by other sites, and some of those have earned me over $100 each. Granted, my top seller at shutterstock has earned me just under $350 there, and SS earns me about 30% more than DT overall, but I find DT to be a very strong second place micro site. I'd give them a chance.

I have a small port there (under 200 photos) and built it up quite slowly (I have 3.54 DLs average per image) and my photos do well in searches despite it being so small, so the advice not to add all your photos at once may be sound.

I just applied to depositphotos and was going to add most of my micro port via FTP at once, wondering now if that's a bad idea?

Phadrea · « **Reply #23 on:** January 16, 2014, 09:58 »

still dire

DF_Studios · « **Reply #24 on:** January 17, 2014, 08:03 »

After three years or so on DT and over 2,000 images - I saw my sales drop considerably after dropping exclusivity. At least my files have "matured" with time and downloads to that the RPI (other than subs) is actually rather nice. Been seeing 5, 6, 10, 20 credit downloads lately.

Sites like Deposit Photos and Fotolia on the other hand seem to only sell subs.

Phadrea · « **Reply #25 on:** January 28, 2014, 01:18 »

More files added. Still dire. Pointless uploading anymore.

grey1 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 28, 2014, 02:03 »

Joined them in 2007 and I have 2500 images on line. Constantly selling well and probably the only agency left that do not turn you over for a simple buck or two.
As said above, patience is the virtue.

gostwyck · « **Reply #27 on:** January 28, 2014, 04:54 »

A few months ago, having not uploaded any new work to DT for over two years, I finally got around to doing so and increased my portfolio by about 25% in the process.

Since then my sales have increase quite dramatically, especially of new files, although naturally my RPD has plummeted at the same time.

This month my sales are likely to be almost 3x the volume of Jan 2012 however my RPD has gone from $2.36 to $1.08 ... so actual earnings will only be up about 25% (about the same amount that I had increased my portfolio by).

I do consider it well worth uploading new content to DT as new files will eventually find their way to the higher levels and older content will not maintain their earnings forever. DT is now firmly established as my second highest earner (after SS) and they are a stable and well run agency. I believe they have a solid customer base and their market-share appears to be slowly increasing (as that of IS and FT appears to be falling away, according to my numbers).

Ron · « **Reply #28 on:** January 28, 2014, 05:27 »

I Am really thinking of starting with DT again, and just suck up the similar policy.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #29 on:** January 28, 2014, 05:38 »

I've also had a big surge in DT sales but mostly subs. I wasn't very active there over the last year and had a major push to upload in the last six weeks of 2013, but even so it was only about 5% more files yet my dls are more than double January last year and my RPI is down by more than half, so I just might match last year's earnings but it's not certain yet.

gostwyck · « **Reply #30 on:** January 28, 2014, 05:46 »

Quote from: Ron on January 28, 2014, 05:27

I Am really thinking of starting with DT again, and just suck up the similar policy.

The only reason that I started uploading to DT again was that I'd read (on MSG) that they had abandoned the 'similars' policy. I only had one file rejected out of nearly 900 uploaded (it was a fairly boring background image).

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #31 on:** January 28, 2014, 05:54 »

Quote from: gostwyck on January 28, 2014, 05:46

Quote from: Ron on January 28, 2014, 05:27
I Am really thinking of starting with DT again, and just suck up the similar policy.

The only reason that I started uploading to DT again was that I'd read (on MSG) that they had abandoned the 'similars' policy. I only had one file rejected out of nearly 900 uploaded (it was a fairly boring background image).

Today I got seven out of seven rejections for "we already have this subject well-covered", which seems like a "similars" policy to me.

Muskoka Imagery · « **Reply #32 on:** January 28, 2014, 07:36 »

9 out of 10 of my latest rejections were also for these reasons. Either "already well covered in our Database" or "Similar image already in your portfolio". So the policy seems firmly in place.

Overall though, DT is more accepting of my processing style than most so I can't complain about their review policy. I generally find their review reasons to be more accurate too. If an image is technically okay, but the reviewer just doesn't like it, they generally tell you it's "not what we are looking for". I respect that honesty, and find it more helpful than other sites that at times seem to respond with specific technical issues when the real reason is the reviewer just doesn't like it.

Ron · « **Reply #33 on:** January 28, 2014, 08:05 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on January 28, 2014, 05:54

Quote from: gostwyck on January 28, 2014, 05:46
Quote from: Ron on January 28, 2014, 05:27
I Am really thinking of starting with DT again, and just suck up the similar policy.

The only reason that I started uploading to DT again was that I'd read (on MSG) that they had abandoned the 'similars' policy. I only had one file rejected out of nearly 900 uploaded (it was a fairly boring background image).

Today I got seven out of seven rejections for "we already have this subject well-covered", which seems like a "similars" policy to me.

They still want me to submit my face images in collages. Thats whats bothering me.

Tone · « **Reply #34 on:** January 28, 2014, 08:35 »

Quote from: Ron on January 28, 2014, 08:05

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on January 28, 2014, 05:54
Quote from: gostwyck on January 28, 2014, 05:46
Quote from: Ron on January 28, 2014, 05:27
I Am really thinking of starting with DT again, and just suck up the similar policy.

The only reason that I started uploading to DT again was that I'd read (on MSG) that they had abandoned the 'similars' policy. I only had one file rejected out of nearly 900 uploaded (it was a fairly boring background image).

Today I got seven out of seven rejections for "we already have this subject well-covered", which seems like a "similars" policy to me.
They still want me to submit my face images in collages. Thats whats bothering me.

Understandable to be bothered. I've had a similar request in the past, but I refuse to do it for them!

Phadrea · « **Reply #35 on:** January 28, 2014, 11:05 »

Nope, IS is a far better earner than DT for me.

ACS · « **Reply #36 on:** January 28, 2014, 11:36 »

Seemingly they relaxed their similars policy, I don't think they are still searching for the similars within your portfolio when reviewing a new file. But just in case I still prevent sending similar images in one batch, instead I do it the other day.

Phadrea · « **Reply #37 on:** January 30, 2014, 02:50 »

I don't get many rejections and yet the same images are selling far more on SS and IS. No way is DT in the top 4 for me. You can go days, even weeks without a sale. In fact I had regular great sales when I first joined them over 2 years ago with a small amount of images. How do you work that out ?

Again, the images are selling well on SS and IS.

Beppe Grillo · « **Reply #38 on:** January 30, 2014, 04:52 »

DT is a very bad earner for me.
Every month I upload more photos and every month I get less and less sales…
(This January is just ridiculous for me)

stocked · « **Reply #39 on:** January 30, 2014, 04:58 »

If you think with DT is everything alright, then check out their mini-sub-model which gives contributors a maximum of 10% commission.

Chris FSI · « **Reply #40 on:** January 30, 2014, 06:39 »

I uploaded my first files yesterday and am awaiting review of them (it says the waiting time is 50 hours!). This thread has scared the crap out me

cuppacoffee · « **Reply #41 on:** January 30, 2014, 09:57 »

If you are submitting to any microsite you can't expect to get rich quick like some did in 2004 - 2006. If you read through the posts here for any of the sites listed on the right you will have contributors who say don't submit to a particular site while others say make sure and submit to that same site. Every thread about earnings is populated with those who are doing really well and those who say they are not. Every post about images not being accepted at any site are contradicted by those who say that they get all of their images accepted. Without images to view or statistics to wade through all you have are the opinions of a diverse set of members here who shoot a diverse set of subjects. If any thread "scares the crap out of you" keep reading, you will find another that contradicts your fears. It can't hurt to give it a try.

And yes, waiting time is long. DT just upped the limit without, I suspect, adding more reviewers. I also believe that the standards have been lowered judging from some of the newest images. These days it is a game of quantity. DT also says that they delete non-sellers after 4 years but some are saying that they have not done that lately (software glitch?).

DF_Studios · « **Reply #42 on:** January 31, 2014, 07:46 »

Thing that bothers me is the assignments they run. Although fun for the contributors it seems to me it has people creating RM quality work for RF.

DF_Studios · « **Reply #43 on:** January 31, 2014, 07:49 »

At what point do these agencies realize that they have enough images and start looking more closely at getting rid of the trash? At least DT has a policy to cull non-sellers after four years.

They can't keep growing at millions upon millions of images. At someone the buyers just can't find anything.

cuppacoffee · « **Reply #44 on:** January 31, 2014, 10:41 »

Quote from: DF_Studios on January 31, 2014, 07:49

At what point do these agencies realize that they have enough images and start looking more closely at getting rid of the trash? At least DT has a policy to cull non-sellers after four years.

They can't keep growing at millions upon millions of images. At someone the buyers just can't find anything.

Some don't think that is a good idea, for their own images at least.
http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/is-it-worth-to-remove-images-that-are-not-selling/msg363356/#msg363356