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Author Topic: Timelapses tutorial: How to zoom and pan in post production  (Read 3379 times)

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« on: April 03, 2018, 12:29 »
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Timelapses: How to get the Ken Burns effect (zoom and pan) with Lightroom and After Effects.
Shot with the Nikon D850
https://youtu.be/HUUmDKGOmF8
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 08:04 by Brightontl »


« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2018, 09:42 »
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Great tutorial and excellent footage Brightonti.

I can now see why you need a Nikon D850 and this instrument is in perfect hands with you!

Two questions:
From the tutorial I couldn't deduct whether you use Bezier keyframes (ease in/out) in AE or not and

Do you upload to P5 only or also to other stock agencies?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 10:40 by seamless »

« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2018, 03:47 »
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Great tutorial and excellent footage Brightonti.

I can now see why you need a Nikon D850 and this instrument is in perfect hands with you!

Two questions:
From the tutorial I couldn't deduct whether you use Bezier keyframes (ease in/out) in AE or not and

Do you upload to P5 only or also to other stock agencies?
Many thanks for the kind words.
You are right: easy in and out should be applied.
The reason why I haven't done it is that at the moment with D850 files, After Effects is pushed to the last limits, take over the whole PC resources and sometimes crashes.
I will upgrade my RAM from 32 to 64 and also start to experiment converting files to DNG to see if it makes a small difference

« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2018, 06:33 »
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The reason why I haven't done it is that at the moment with D850 files, After Effects is pushed to the last limits, take over the whole PC resources and sometimes crashes.
I will upgrade my RAM from 32 to 64 and also start to experiment converting files to DNG to see if it makes a small difference

I've never had a problem with After Effects crashes...

...until today! After the 15.1 (April 3rd) update.

Now I can't even export a RAW sequence without crashing. I have to do it 2 seconds at a time... This was never a problem until the update and I could work on other things while it ran in the background.

Interesting how they can screw up something this bad with an "update"...

Anyone else with this problem after the update?

« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2018, 10:53 »
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Update:

I downgraded back to CC 2017 (14) and everything works as it should again, not a crash in sight... Quite a few good work hours lost though... oh well.  8) :D

« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2018, 03:17 »
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Update:

I downgraded back to CC 2017 (14) and everything works as it should again, not a crash in sight... Quite a few good work hours lost though... oh well.  8) :D
I was going to suggest to roll back to a previous version and wait until a solution is found.
Adobe is usually quite good at that.
I have not updated mine yet, at the moment very busy analysing the new Lightroom, big, big change

« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2018, 12:46 »
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Working on raw footage can be processor consuming indeed.
I always convert my raw NEFs to TIFF16 sequences first before doing image transformations on them.
Works a lot faster on my 2014 MacMini with AE CS6.5 and I don't need to upgrade anything.
From raw to tiff I make the image very dull so both the foreground and sky have all the greys that I need for masking etcetera.

« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2018, 03:34 »
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Working on raw footage can be processor consuming indeed.
I always convert my raw NEFs to TIFF16 sequences first before doing image transformations on them.
Works a lot faster on my 2014 MacMini with AE CS6.5 and I don't need to upgrade anything.
From raw to tiff I make the image very dull so both the foreground and sky have all the greys that I need for masking etcetera.

Yes, this is pretty much exactly what I do, but I make a HQ video file (tiff takes so much space) directly from the RAW images and then work from there. The problem was converting the RAW files with CC 2018 in the first place.  :)

« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2018, 05:21 »
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Yes, there are several possible workflows.
On my computer, which is quite powerful, I still prefer to keep RAW files even for After Effects and only export TIFFs for LRTimelapse to encode, as it gives me all variety of Prores, it is a bit faster in encoding and also has a function to die for: it can add three different levels of motion blur while encoding.
For me this last function is life changing.
With the huge files generated by the D850 my computer was struggling a bit, but saving the RAW files in DNG seem to make life easier

« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2018, 09:02 »
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From VJ-ing with Resolume Arena I learned that decoding compressed files takes a lot of processor power while working real time.

On a MAC working with ProRes files you might notice that there are one or more other programs like "Adobe helper" eating your RAM and processing power.
These programs do the decoding of the Quicktime files, AE doesn't do the decoding itself.

That's why I often use TIFF sequences or even JPEG sequences (!) uncompressed when working with large images, pingponging between two external harddisks.

Manual purging RAM helps a lot too and I'm glad you solved the primary problem by rolling back to a previous version of After Effects.

« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2018, 09:15 »
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From VJ-ing with Resolume Arena I learned that decoding compressed files takes a lot of processor power while working real time.

On a MAC working with ProRes files you might notice that there are one or more other programs like "Adobe helper" eating your RAM and processing power.
These programs do the decoding of the Quicktime files, AE doesn't do the decoding itself.

That's why I often use TIFF sequences or even JPEG sequences (!) uncompressed when working with large images, pingponging between two external harddisks.

Manual purging RAM helps a lot too and I'm glad you solved the primary problem by rolling back to a previous version of After Effects.

ProRes is very easy to handle compared to most formats. That's why it's used.

With JPEG you're forced to work in 8-bit, and TIFF sequences take up enormous space, and are not at all faster than ProRes. In FCP X, ProRes is even real-time. It's just that After Effects has very old and ineffective coding that is too late to change now I suppose...

The new AE didn't crash because the system was overloaded. It crashed because of a bug. It crashed on any export.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 10:31 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2018, 10:02 »
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Just to confirm, I ran a couple of tests in After Effects. I could just not believe there was any way a TIFF sequence was faster to work with than ProRes...

A short clip (5760x3840) with some basic color correction effects applied. I purged all memory and RAM between each test. I ran each test twice. Only After Effects was running (on macOS High Sierra).

They are in the same composition with the same adjustment layer. The layers that weren't used were deleted.

ProRes (HQ) Export - 48 seconds the first time, 45 seconds the second time.
JPG Export - 57 seconds the first time, 58 seconds the second time.
TIFF 16-bit uncompressed Export - 1 min 28 seconds the first time, 1 min 29 seconds the second time.

I also had to test TIFF 16-bit compressed - 1 min 26 seconds.

There is no question what's faster on my system. I encourage you to do the same tests. They may differ, especially if it's on a PC.

Quarter RAM previews were faster of course, with ProRes #1, TIFF not long after, and JPG being much slower.

And of course, a TIFF 16-bit uncompressed sequence takes up 13.5 times more space than ProRes (HQ).  :)

The only advantage with TIFF is of course 16-bit (which is really 14-bit or 12-bit in this case) instead of 10-bit.

But why work with TIFF at all when you can work directly with RAW then?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These first tests were done from the harddrives I normally work with, so that they would be real-life situation tests for me.

I also did the same tests from my internal SSD, and these were the results:

1. ProRes (HQ) - 45 seconds.
2. TIFF 16-bit Uncompressed - 54 seconds.
3. JPG 100% - 56 seconds.

I added RAW and DNG, both from SSD:

4. RAW - 1 min 29 seconds.
5. DNG - 1 min 17 seconds.

Smaller difference without the slower disk bottleneck. But still, ProRes (HQ) is significantly faster for me.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 05:00 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2018, 10:48 »
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The TIFF workflow I use for night timelapses which need to go through Noise Ninja for stand alone denoising.
So when I have those denoised TIFFs, I just use them for the rest of the work.

ProRes444 is indeed what I use most of the time for my daytime 5K timelapses and archiving and that works fine usually.
I've started to uses uncompressed JPEGs as intermediate files a lot though, when converting from 25fps to 24fps ProRes files, and found out that they work fine also when doing things like time stretching through multiple layers.

As I said before, sometimes I work for weeks on a single shot and then it is convenient to make an intermediate TIFF sequence from the RAWs.

I didn't know TIFF16 is actually 14bit but why not, thanks!

ProRes was indeed developed for FCP and a 3840x2160 also has a 1920x1080 etcetera inside. Beautiful architecture!
With a small computer and large formats I reach my ceiling fast so a single frame codec works more efficient sometimes than a long gop codec.

Very interesting comparison speed test!

« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2018, 10:56 »
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I didn't know TIFF16 is actually 14bit but why not, thanks!

Well, TIFF16 CAN be 16-bit, but not when the source is single RAW files, which are 12-bit or 14-bit from your camera, depending on what you use.  ;)

I can recommend denoising in After Effects with Neat Video or one of their competitors. That way you can use time-based noise reduction and also spot any banding issues before printing the noise reduction.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 10:58 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2018, 10:59 »
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I've started to uses uncompressed JPEGs as intermediate files a lot though, when converting from 25fps to 24fps ProRes files, and found out that they work fine also when doing things like time stretching through multiple layers.

But then you're throwing away lots of information that you won't ever get back... 8-bit JPEGs.

« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2018, 13:51 »
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I've started to uses uncompressed JPEGs as intermediate files a lot though, when converting from 25fps to 24fps ProRes files, and found out that they work fine also when doing things like time stretching through multiple layers.

This makes no sense to me. Can you explain further what you mean?

If you want to convert from 25 to 24 you just choose Interpret Footage in AE and export again. Takes a few seconds.

« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2018, 04:09 »
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Lot of interesting info here.
I have been encoding a lot of timelapses in ProRes using LRTimelapse encoder on a Windows PC (both 4k and 8k).
But I just read on Pond 5 forum that they don't accept ProRes encoded with LRT! Don't know if Shutterstock does.
Any idea?

« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2018, 16:06 »
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Ha, yes, JPG images sequences as in-betweens I use only after I've done all grading towards a ProRes444 archival file.
Mainly for doing many multi-layered VFX in AE, not for landscape work.

With doing 24 <--> 25 fps conversions I've had problems in the past like skipped or doubled frames so when I doubt I go from a ProRes 25fps to a ProRes24 fps file through single frame sequences.
Perhaps I'm doing something wrong? Interpret frame rate doesn't always work for me.

« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2018, 16:13 »
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Ha, yes, JPG images sequences as in-betweens I use only after I've done all grading towards a ProRes444 archival file.
Mainly for doing many multi-layered VFX in AE, not for landscape work.

With doing 24 <--> 25 fps conversions I've had problems in the past like skipped or doubled frames so when I doubt I go from a ProRes 25fps to a ProRes24 fps file through single frame sequences.
Perhaps I'm doing something wrong? Interpret frame rate doesn't always work for me.

Actually, I have also had the 25 to 24 double frame problem before, but only in Final Cut Pro X. A strange bug that never happened when going from 30 to 25, 30 to 24 or vice versa.

In After Effects (Interpret Footage) it always works perfectly, so that's what I use now. No double or skipped frames in the last 2 years.  :)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 16:18 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2018, 16:21 »
+1
Glad I'm not the only one  :)
I burned my fingers once (2013) in Adobe Premiere and since then I often just do it the hard way with important timelapse files.


 

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