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Agency Based Discussion => Adobe Stock => Topic started by: vii-studio on January 01, 2010, 06:21

Title: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: vii-studio on January 01, 2010, 06:21
I got mail from Fotolia :

----------------------------------------
Dear Contributor,
We are happy to inform you that one of your files has been sold.Selling creative content licenses is an economic activity. Income derived from these sales may be subject to U.S. IRS (Internal Revenue Service) Withholding Tax. It is important that our contributors, and Fotolia, comply with tax law. So, we invite you to visit the Tax Center and to review the information listed on that page. Until you complete this procedure and the appropriate form is validated, your Fotolia income will be subject to automatic withholding at the appropriate tax rate. By submitting the applicable form, you may benefit from a reduced or zero withholding rate on your income.We suggest you complete this procedure as soon as possible.
Best Regards,Fotolia Team
------------------------------------------

Then I check my sold image (subscription):

Purchase Date : 2010-01-01 11:43:36
Purchase License : L
Commission : 0.2232

0.2232.....so sad. It was 0.31 before. So, My question is Fotolia withhold every sold image? Did anyone sold image without withhold (not US buyer)?

And, my country in Taiwan and had no Tax Treaty.....
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: madelaide on January 01, 2010, 10:17
The worst part is that I will pay taxes over these 22c too later.  The double-taxation is what bothers me.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: lisafx on January 01, 2010, 11:46
I got it too, and I am a US contributor.  They already had a w-9 on me, but for some reason I had to fill out a new one.  Now I have to wait for it to be examined and approved.  Hopefully will not take too long....
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: GeoPappas on January 01, 2010, 12:30
I got it too, and I am a US contributor.  They already had a w-9 on me, but for some reason I had to fill out a new one.  Now I have to wait for it to be examined and approved.  Hopefully will not take too long....

Ditto...
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: le_cyclope on January 01, 2010, 13:50
Same here...

But the worst part is that I tried many times to fill and send the form but each time got an error message (An error has occured. Please try again later).  Sent an email about what to do...

Does anybody knows if the withholding tax is permanent or it will be «re-imboursed» (is that the word?!) when forms are finally filled and accepted?

Claude
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: FD on January 01, 2010, 15:22
I just had a look and my last sale yesterday Dec 31 was 0.31$ XS Standard. Today's (Jan 1, 2010) the first XS Standard sale was 0.196$. That's simply too low.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Kngkyle on January 01, 2010, 16:55
Does anybody knows if the withholding tax is permanent or it will be «re-imboursed» (is that the word?!) when forms are finally filled and accepted?
Claude

I sure as hell hope so. I looked briefly on the forums and didn't find an answer.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: FD on January 01, 2010, 17:51
Fotolia clearly has a serious cash flow problem. Contributors waiting to ask payout and the undue 30% tax for 0% treaty countries contributors will help.

Asking a TIN nr requires a snail mail letter from FT and the entire procedure takes 3 months, yet they announced it shortly before the holidays. Nuf said.

Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: brm1949 on January 01, 2010, 18:13
I didn't make any sales yet this year, but I checked out the tax center and filled out the W-9 anyway. Now I'm waiting for the approval also. The tax situation for micro royalties with most agencies outside USA has me completely confused on what to file. Is there a thread that covers to whole tax question with mirostock from a USA prospective?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: sharpshot on January 01, 2010, 18:15
Fotolia clearly has a serious cash flow problem. Contributors waiting to ask payout and the undue 30% tax for 0% treaty countries contributors will help.

Asking a TIN nr requires a snail mail letter from FT and the entire procedure takes 3 months, yet they announced it shortly before the holidays. Nuf said.


I don't think they have a cash flow problem, just a serious lack of respect for their contributors that is going to damage their business.  There is no comparison with the sensible way shutterstock handled this, after initially making mistakes.  They promised early on to at least give everyone time to get the ITIN number and then they found we didn't need it.  Fotolia should of learned from them, they had 6 months longer than shutterstock to sort this out.  It is hard to believe they didn't know the IRS would want them to withhold tax after what shutterstock went through.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Eireann on January 01, 2010, 18:40
Hi,
this is what I got.
01 Jan 2010 - 2 sales.


File Name : Vector Back to school in September
Purchase Date : 2010-01-01 16:46:16
Purchase License : XS
Sale Price : 1
------------------------------------------

File Name : Vector Christmas golden candle border
Purchase Date : 2010-01-01 16:05:43
Purchase License : L
Commission : 0.216

-------------------------------------
Previous credits  = 28.1
Today credits     = 28.496

Are they deducting 30% of every single sale? Regardless of where it comes from?
Does anybody know?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: le_cyclope on January 01, 2010, 18:53
From what I see on my sales, the amount for the sale is shown without any deduction.  You see the deductions in the Account Information (the left part of the screen) in terms of credit.

Claude
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Eireann on January 01, 2010, 19:00
Right.
I managed to get the site to load and checked my 'Credits' tab.
Both sales show a 28% tax deduction.
Does that mean both buyers were Americans? And how do we know that? Is there a link to show this info?
Or is Fotolia simply deducting taxes on each and every single sale regardless of the country of origin?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: FD on January 01, 2010, 19:11
Does that mean both buyers were Americans?
Not. You'll have to trust them.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Konstantin Sutyagin on January 01, 2010, 20:07
Does that mean both buyers were Americans?
Not. You'll have to trust them.  ;D ;D

oh, how can we not trust them?  ;D
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Whiz on January 01, 2010, 21:03
I got it too, and I am a US contributor.  They already had a w-9 on me, but for some reason I had to fill out a new one.  Now I have to wait for it to be examined and approved.  Hopefully will not take too long....


Yeesh, I wonder what happened to the first one you sent in. Did you ask them? Just curious.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Adeptris on January 02, 2010, 05:02
Does that mean both buyers were Americans?
Not. You'll have to trust them.  ;D ;D

oh, how can we not trust them?  ;D

I must agree with Konstantin, as you already trust them enough to upload your full sized assets to them, and allow them to represent you as an agent in the sale of licenses, you trust them to report sales, sizes and license types, why would you doubt that the sales are in the US?

Looking at it from another perspective, they are an established business which will have audits on the accounts and are not going to risk the damage of legal actions for fruad, if you doubt that the buyers were from the US, then what about doubting the number of sales, or the sizes that was sold, the license type, was it really an EL but put through as a normal sale, collecting withholding tax under a false pretence would be fraud, not passsing this on could mean going to prison.

If you do not trust them on one thing then the only action is to close your account with them!

David
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: ThomasAmby on January 02, 2010, 06:33
All of my sales since January 1st have been arranged for a 30% deduction. There is no way all of these could have come from the US.

I believed the deduction would only affect PAYMENTS, not each sale. I don't expect them to reimburse the money (MY money), and generally I am very, very, very disappointed with the way they are handling this situation. They expect people to acquire an ITIN on such short notice, and don't even bother to give us the appropriate means to do so. . How am I supposed to apply for an ITIN without a signed letter, that is NOT JUST an e-mail?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Adeptris on January 02, 2010, 07:36
Hi Tomas,
You are correct withholding Tax should only affect the sales made to US Customers, but it is on a per sale basis and not total payment, if you are correct about all sales being subject to WHT then Fotolia have it wrong.

Looking at Alexa the majority of users are from Germany, maybe there is some confusion with the Fotolia software developers as there should be no withholding tax on non US sales and with only 12.7% of traffic being from the US the percentages should be small, even after making allowances for contributor vs buyer location.

Fotolia.com users come from these countries:
30.1% Germany
12.7% United States
8.5% India
5.7% France
4.5% Italy
3.8% United Kingdom
2.3% Austria
2.0% Japan
1.7% Spain
1.5% Pakistan
1.5% Indonesia
1.4% China
1.4% Russia
1.4% Canada
1.0% Switzerland
1.0% Poland
0.9% Turkey
0.8% Greece
0.8% Australia
0.8% Mexico
0.7% Ukraine
0.7% Brazil
0.6% South Africa
0.5% Netherlands
0.5% Iran
0.5% Romania
0.5% Thailand
12.2% others


Where people go on Fotolia.com:
63.4% de.fotolia.com
12.7% fotolia.com
6.3% fr.fotolia.com
3.8% us.fotolia.com
3.6% eu.fotolia.com
2.0% es.fotolia.com 1.9%
it.fotolia.com 1.5%
en.fotolia.com 1.4%
admin.fotolia.com 1.0%
pl.fotolia.com 0.6%
jp.fotolia.com 0.5%
static-p3.fotolia.com 0.4%
static-p4.fotolia.com 0.3%
pt.fotolia.com 0.2%
download.fotolia.com 0.2%
blog.fotolia.com 0.1%

Regards

David

Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: ThomasAmby on January 02, 2010, 07:53
I didn't fill out the online W-8 BEN form from their tax center yet, and that's probably the reason why all of my sales are getting deducted from. I'm figuring if I filled it out (without the ITIN) only U.S. sales would be affected.

I'm wondering, if I fill it out now without the ITIN, can I get back later when I have it and re-submit it with the ITIN?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: FD on January 02, 2010, 08:06
I didn't fill out the online W-8 BEN form from their tax center yet, and that's probably the reason why all of my sales are getting deducted from. I'm figuring if I filled it out (without the ITIN) only U.S. sales would be affected.

No. I filled the form out without an ITIN number too. It was accepted but in the acceptance email it was clearly stated that without ITIN number, the tax would be applied.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: ThomasAmby on January 02, 2010, 08:16
I didn't fill out the online W-8 BEN form from their tax center yet, and that's probably the reason why all of my sales are getting deducted from. I'm figuring if I filled it out (without the ITIN) only U.S. sales would be affected.

No. I filled the form out without an ITIN number too. It was accepted but in the acceptance email it was clearly stated that without ITIN number, the tax would be applied.

Tax will be applied, yes, but on ALL sales or on U.S. sales only? If on all sales, isn't that illegal? And in this case what would be the point of filling it out?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Danicek on January 02, 2010, 09:02
I didn't fill out the online W-8 BEN form from their tax center yet, and that's probably the reason why all of my sales are getting deducted from. I'm figuring if I filled it out (without the ITIN) only U.S. sales would be affected.

No. I filled the form out without an ITIN number too. It was accepted but in the acceptance email it was clearly stated that without ITIN number, the tax would be applied.

Tax will be applied, yes, but on ALL sales or on U.S. sales only? If on all sales, isn't that illegal? And in this case what would be the point of filling it out?

Yes, I would say it is illegal. This thing is handled by FT so poorly that I can't believe business can be run this way. By this time they should have clear answer to if they are really withholding taxes on all sales and if so if it is by mistake or if it is intentional and why and what will be done in case it is by mistake.

However so far there are just uninformed replies from moderators on FT forum (not knowing anything more than normal user). Online business like this has to have 24/7 support being able to trouble shoot such critical issues like this. Or do they think this is something less than critical for people relaying on the income?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: fotografer on January 02, 2010, 09:18
50% of my sales have had the tax applied to them. I'm suprised by the amount as when they used to show who the buyers were I think that only 1 or 2 % were from America.    I'm liking the 14 and 16 credit sales though.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: gostwyck on January 02, 2010, 09:26
Yes, I would say it is illegal. This thing is handled by FT so poorly that I can't believe business can be run this way. By this time they should have clear answer to if they are really withholding taxes on all sales and if so if it is by mistake or if it is intentional and why and what will be done in case it is by mistake.

However so far there are just uninformed replies from moderators on FT forum (not knowing anything more than normal user). Online business like this has to have 24/7 support being able to trouble shoot such critical issues like this. Or do they think this is something less than critical for people relaying on the income?

Exactly. Not only that but if you live in a 'treaty country' then they should only be withholding a reduced amount anyway __ 10% for contributors in the UK for example.

Are Fotolia actually trying to make us all go exclusive with Istock? They certainly appear to be acting as IS's Chief Recruiting Sergeant.

They need to get their act together very quickly on this issue or they'll be a mass exodus of contributors within a few months when the lock-ins at other agencies have expired __ me included.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Stu49 on January 02, 2010, 11:04
Just got my email !!   ???   So, do we (in the UK) sign !?  or wait and see ??  :-\
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: sharpshot on January 02, 2010, 11:26
Yes, I would say it is illegal. This thing is handled by FT so poorly that I can't believe business can be run this way. By this time they should have clear answer to if they are really withholding taxes on all sales and if so if it is by mistake or if it is intentional and why and what will be done in case it is by mistake.

However so far there are just uninformed replies from moderators on FT forum (not knowing anything more than normal user). Online business like this has to have 24/7 support being able to trouble shoot such critical issues like this. Or do they think this is something less than critical for people relaying on the income?

Exactly. Not only that but if you live in a 'treaty country' then they should only be withholding a reduced amount anyway __ 10% for contributors in the UK for example.

Are Fotolia actually trying to make us all go exclusive with Istock? They certainly appear to be acting as IS's Chief Recruiting Sergeant.

They need to get their act together very quickly on this issue or they'll be a mass exodus of contributors within a few months when the lock-ins at other agencies have expired __ me included.
It should be 0% for contributors in the UK.  I filled in the form without the ITIN number and I don't think they have withheld any tax yet but perhaps I haven't sold anything in the US.

Edit, I just looked again and I am earning less now for a large file than I was last month.  This is so annoying, I can't see if something is sold in the US or how much tax has been withheld.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: sam100 on January 02, 2010, 11:33
Yes, I would say it is illegal. This thing is handled by FT so poorly that I can't believe business can be run this way. By this time they should have clear answer to if they are really withholding taxes on all sales and if so if it is by mistake or if it is intentional and why and what will be done in case it is by mistake.

However so far there are just uninformed replies from moderators on FT forum (not knowing anything more than normal user). Online business like this has to have 24/7 support being able to trouble shoot such critical issues like this. Or do they think this is something less than critical for people relaying on the income?

Exactly. Not only that but if you live in a 'treaty country' then they should only be withholding a reduced amount anyway __ 10% for contributors in the UK for example.

Are Fotolia actually trying to make us all go exclusive with Istock? They certainly appear to be acting as IS's Chief Recruiting Sergeant.

They need to get their act together very quickly on this issue or they'll be a mass exodus of contributors within a few months when the lock-ins at other agencies have expired __ me included.
It should be 0% for contributors in the UK.  I filled in the form without the ITIN number and I don't think they have withheld any tax yet but perhaps I haven't sold anything in the US.

Edit, I just looked again and I am earning less now for a large file than I was last month.  This is so annoying, I can't see if something is sold in the US or how much tax has been withheld.

Belgium is 0% ... but they deducted  30 % on my american sales.

Patrick.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: fotografer on January 02, 2010, 11:55
Just realized that I'm stupid.  It isn't 50% that have tax applied it is all of the sales.  It's just that on the sales page each sales is shown twice, once about the tax and once the actual sale.

50% of my sales have had the tax applied to them. I'm suprised by the amount as when they used to show who the buyers were I think that only 1 or 2 % were from America.    I'm liking the 14 and 16 credit sales though.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: sharpshot on January 02, 2010, 11:56
It is confusing when they have cut commissions and raised the number of credits for certain sizes as well as bringing in withholding tax.  I see in the stats section they have an option to see how much tax has been withheld and how many images have been sold in the US.  It looks like I haven't sold any in the US yet and I don't have any withheld tax.

Perhaps we should just get all US buyers to use the other sites and the problem is solved :)
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: madelaide on January 02, 2010, 12:16
You are correct withholding Tax should only affect the sales made to US Customers,
US customers or US Fotolia site?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: FD on January 02, 2010, 12:18
Perhaps we should just get all US buyers to use the other sites and the problem is solved :)
The problem would be totally solved if not only the US buyers used other sites.  ;D
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: danrok on January 02, 2010, 12:33
Hello!

Just wondering if any UK based contributors have managed to sort this out so that they don't get hit for 30% tax?

Also, are there any worthwhile UK or European based microstock companies?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Adeptris on January 02, 2010, 13:25
You are correct withholding Tax should only affect the sales made to US Customers,

US customers or US Fotolia site?

I just tested from the UK, and I typed in www.fotolio.com (http://www.fotolio.com) and the link changed to the US, http://us.fotolia.com/ (http://us.fotolia.com/) I do not know how the withholding gets the buyers country code, I would think from the buyers login details, it is only something they can answer, with Istock it knows from my IP and information that I am in the UK as prices are in GBP but Fotolio prices are shown in USD.

http://us.fotolia.com/ (http://us.fotolia.com/) = USD
http://uk.fotolia.com/ (http://uk.fotolia.com/) is not showing any images or price data.
http://de.fotolia.com/ (http://de.fotolia.com/) = EUR

Checked the website UK link and it is now http://en.fotolia.com/ (http://en.fotolia.com/) and GBP

From the US site I have opened a new account and can purchase credits in USD, also the EN website offers credits in USD, so I would hope that it would be the buyers country that would set the witholding tax rate.

David

Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Artemis on January 02, 2010, 16:03
Screw them so much. I can't even get the W-8 form passed without filling a TIN number, because it keeps popping up in red i  need one.
Anyone found a workaround or something?
Thanks!
(NO WAY i'm applying for a TIN)
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: danrok on January 02, 2010, 16:10
Screw them so much. I can't even get the W-8 form passed without filling a TIN number, because it keeps popping up in red i  need one.
Anyone found a workaround or something?
Thanks!
(NO WAY i'm applying for a TIN)

I didn't have to provide one.  I am in the UK.

Which country are you in?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: dbajurin on January 02, 2010, 16:22
Just check 9a and choose your country and it will work without ITN number.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Artemis on January 02, 2010, 16:57
Thanks guys for your help! :)
I did check 9a before (i'm in belgium with 0%) and did again with still the same TIN error popping up... Turned out the issue was i filled in N/A in both TIN and EIN fields. As soon as i emptied them it got through.

Fotolia, not that you seem to care even a little bit, but the way you're handling this is just a disgrace! Bah.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: le_cyclope on January 02, 2010, 18:35
Thanks guys for your help! :)
I did check 9a before (i'm in belgium with 0%) and did again with still the same TIN error popping up... Turned out the issue was i filled in N/A in both TIN and EIN fields. As soon as i emptied them it got through.

Fotolia, not that you seem to care even a little bit, but the way you're handling this is just a disgrace! Bah.

Kind of lost here...
What is that 9a form?  The only choices I have are W-9 if I am a US resident, wich I am not (canadian) or the W8-BEN which gives me an error when I submit it.   Arghhhhhhhhh

Claude
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: danrok on January 02, 2010, 21:12
Thanks guys for your help! :)
I did check 9a before (i'm in belgium with 0%) and did again with still the same TIN error popping up... Turned out the issue was i filled in N/A in both TIN and EIN fields. As soon as i emptied them it got through.

Fotolia, not that you seem to care even a little bit, but the way you're handling this is just a disgrace! Bah.

Kind of lost here...
What is that 9a form?  The only choices I have are W-9 if I am a US resident, wich I am not (canadian) or the W8-BEN which gives me an error when I submit it.   Arghhhhhhhhh

Claude


I think 9a is a box, on the W8-BEN.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: le_cyclope on January 02, 2010, 21:20
Oh thanks!

That's why I take photos...  :)

Claude
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: epixx on January 03, 2010, 01:08
What I don't get is why e have to do this for every agency. US tax authorities seem to live in the medieval ages. In any other country I know about, you register for tax once, and that even goes for some third world countries.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: sharpshot on January 03, 2010, 04:48
I presume you only have to apply for the number once and put it on the form for any site that asks for it.  I just don't like the application process or the thought of my details being on another countries government database.  SS and Veer Marketplace  have proved the ITIN isn't necessary, applying for one just for fotolia doesn't make sense, they should be working out the way not to use the ITIN.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Microbius on January 03, 2010, 05:01
I am from the UK, have filled in the form with 9a ticked,(without an ITIN), the form shows as validated and I am still having tax withheld. They definately want that ITIN to release the tax.
There's an option on the stats page now where you can see how much has been withheld.

I hate these guys so much, now I've got to take a day out and fork out a fortune for train ticket to go to the embassy and get my passport copy notarised because there's no way I'm sending off the original!
This is so unnecessary, they need to speak to SS's or veers' lawyers.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Pheby on January 03, 2010, 05:49
I am from the UK, have filled in the form with 9a ticked,(without an ITIN), the form shows as validated and I am still having tax withheld. They definately want that ITIN to release the tax.
There's an option on the stats page now where you can see how much has been withheld.


I really don't get all this. I'm with Fotolia Germany, I filled in the form, it was confirmed, and I don't have an ITIN, but still no tax was deducted so far. From what is said in the forums, the same holds for other contributors in the same situation. It's only the contributors who didn't fill in the form or haven't received the confirmation yet who are getting tax deducted.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Microbius on January 03, 2010, 05:52
they only started on the first of January, have you had any sales since then?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Pheby on January 03, 2010, 06:26
they only started on the first of January, have you had any sales since then?

Yes, I have. And no tax was deducted from any of them.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: sharpshot on January 03, 2010, 06:34
That isn't correct, I am from the UK, I filled in the form without the ITIN and it was accepted but I am still getting tax withheld.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: FD on January 03, 2010, 06:37
US tax authorities seem to live in the medieval ages. In any other country I know about, you register for tax once, and that even goes for some third world countries.
Yes but most countries became independent out of some heroic fight for freedom or whatever. The US at the contrary became independent over a tax issue. No taxation without representation, they said, and now they are doing it themselves. ;D
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Pheby on January 03, 2010, 06:42
That isn't correct, I am from the UK, I filled in the form without the ITIN and it was accepted but I am still getting tax withheld.

What isn't correct? That no tax was deducted from my sales? Do you mean that that's a mistake on their side? As I said, other contributors with Fotolia Germany are reporting the same. Also, our moderator, who is also a Fotolia employee, said that he is not going to apply for an ITIN because it's not worth it for him, as he has very few sales from US-buyers which of course indicates that tax is only going to be deducted for US-based sales.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: sharpshot on January 03, 2010, 07:19
That isn't correct, I am from the UK, I filled in the form without the ITIN and it was accepted but I am still getting tax withheld.

What isn't correct? That no tax was deducted from my sales? Do you mean that that's a mistake on their side? As I said, other contributors with Fotolia Germany are reporting the same. Also, our moderator, who is also a Fotolia employee, said that he is not going to apply for an ITIN because it's not worth it for him, as he has very few sales from US-buyers which of course indicates that tax is only going to be deducted for US-based sales.
This is for US sales only, perhaps you haven't sold any in the US yet?  I have and have had tax deducted, after having the form accepted without the ITIN.  I don't believe they would have different rules for the UK and Germany but this is fotolia, so anything seems possible :)
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Pheby on January 03, 2010, 07:24
That isn't correct, I am from the UK, I filled in the form without the ITIN and it was accepted but I am still getting tax withheld.

What isn't correct? That no tax was deducted from my sales? Do you mean that that's a mistake on their side? As I said, other contributors with Fotolia Germany are reporting the same. Also, our moderator, who is also a Fotolia employee, said that he is not going to apply for an ITIN because it's not worth it for him, as he has very few sales from US-buyers which of course indicates that tax is only going to be deducted for US-based sales.
This is for US sales only, perhaps you haven't sold any in the US yet?  I have and have had tax deducted, after having the form accepted without the ITIN.  I don't believe they would have different rules for the UK and Germany but this is fotolia, so anything seems possible :)

Oh, sorry! I was under the impression that people were talking about having filled out their form and still having tax deducted for all their sales, not only those from the US. Now it's clear.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Eireann on January 03, 2010, 09:00
Hi,
I filled the W8 form and it is now validated.
What's going to happen next?
They're going to deduct 30 per cent of all my American sales, right?
Well then, what's the point in filling that form in the first place?
And what about people who can't fill the W8 form (non treaty countries)? Are they subjected to US taxes on ALL of their sales?
No matter where the sale came from?

I'm so angry I'm sure I'm missing something here. This doesn't look right.

And the best part is Fotolia's moderators.
They're very busy making sure no outside links are allowed and people are properly terrorized into silence.
Helping contributors or trying to solve the problem is surely not that important.
Talk about priorities and taking your job to surreal levels...
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Stu49 on January 03, 2010, 09:13
They're going to deduct 30 per cent of all my American sales, right?
Well then, what's the point in filling that form in the first place?

So they don't deduct 30% of ALL your sales !!  I think that's why !   :-\
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: FD on January 03, 2010, 09:26
So they don't deduct 30% of ALL your sales !!  I think that's why !   :-\

The US IRS can't do that anyways. The US has no ground taxing a non-US alien in his own country for what another non-US alien in his own country buys. The only thing they can do is tax the agency itself on its profits, if it resides in the US. So filling in that form without ITIN number was totally useless if Fotolia doesn't go the SS, BigStock or Veer way.

This might be the sore point. FT probably has been audited by the IRS and it turned out they didn't declare their profits, or not enough of them. As a consequence, they now have a cash flow problem since their cost/income tables don't hold any more. What they do is just throw the burden of their taxes on the contributor to keep their financial structure healthy.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: rene on January 03, 2010, 10:22
So they don\\\'t deduct 30% of ALL your sales !!  I think that\\\'s why !   :-\\\\

The US IRS can\\\'t do that anyways. The US has no ground taxing a non-US alien in his own country for what another non-US alien in his own country buys. The only thing they can do is tax the agency itself on its profits, if it resides in the US. So filling in that form without ITIN number was totally useless if Fotolia doesn\\\'t go the SS, BigStock or Veer way.

This might be the sore point. FT probably has been audited by the IRS and it turned out they didn\\\'t declare their profits, or not enough of them. As a consequence, they now have a cash flow problem since their cost/income tables don\\\'t hold any more. What they do is just throw the burden of their taxes on the contributor to keep their financial structure healthy.
It\' seems impossible but I\'m afraid you are right. They deducted 30% of all my January sales (4) and I have no US sales in my stats. Bandidos.
If it\'s true I\'ll delete my portfolio from FT (like I already did for videos) - not a big lose, anyway I\'ll probably go exclusive at IS in few months.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Danicek on January 03, 2010, 10:35
That isn't correct, I am from the UK, I filled in the form without the ITIN and it was accepted but I am still getting tax withheld.

What isn't correct? That no tax was deducted from my sales? Do you mean that that's a mistake on their side? As I said, other contributors with Fotolia Germany are reporting the same. Also, our moderator, who is also a Fotolia employee, said that he is not going to apply for an ITIN because it's not worth it for him, as he has very few sales from US-buyers which of course indicates that tax is only going to be deducted for US-based sales.

Yes. It is absolutely clear, I guess to everyone, that the witholding is only for sales to US customers. Otherwise it would be illegal and FT is certainly not going that route (unless there is bug in their system). Not care about us does not mean they would risk tax frauds.

So far it seems there are two groups of people (also on FT forum), first group seems to get the tax witheld only on the US sales (or does not have any tax witheld since they did not have any sale to US customer). Second group seems to report tax being witheld on all sales, not just US ones. There are two new options under stats page at FT that allow you to see how much was witheld and what was sold in US. So either this stats is not working correctly, the FT witholding system is not working correctly or these contributors are missing something.l
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: warren0909 on January 03, 2010, 10:56
Right

If you have filled out a W-8BEN form without a ITIN number you will still be taxed 30% on US sales as Fotolia are insisting you need this ITIN number as Fotolia have not yet sent out any letters to those who have requested them that means most non US contributors will be taxed. I did get Fotolia to agree to send out these letters but you know what they are like so everyone is still waiting to see if we do indeed get them in the post.
It is Fotolias policy to take tax off every US sale if you do not have this ITIN number.

 Now as for people reporting that tax has been taken off all sales well that I would think would be Illigal and you should send a strong message to support telling them this MUST STOP (this has not happened to me in fact not had any US sales so far this year)

It makes me think, are Fotolia taking tax off all sales when the contributor has not filled any type of form in at all ? , as I say this has not happened to me as I have a W-8BEN form filled in without an ITIN and validated on Fotolia but I will still have to pay30% tax on US sales.

Fotolia must wake up to this before they lose some very good and promicing artists it such a sad sad situation and need sorting out as soon as poss BY FOTOLIA !

Warren
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: warren0909 on January 03, 2010, 10:59
If only I had the Email address of Fotolia CEO
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: ThomasAmby on January 03, 2010, 11:22
Warren,

Yes they certainly do. I haven't submitted the W8-BEN (well I did earlier this morning, so it's in the pending queue now). I've had 8 sales since January 1st - none of them are from U.S. buyers according to the new options from the statistics page. Yet all of them include 28% withholdings (why not 30% by the way?).

In fact U.S. sales make up just 13,9% of my all time earnings there, so I'm not even sure if it will be worth the hassle for me to obtain an ITIN, had the withholdings only affected US sales.

I do want to complain, but feel powerless. Seriously. This is a joke.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Artemis on January 03, 2010, 11:43
I'm pulling my port if this tax fiasco doesn't get solved soon. I hate to do it because they are, like for most of us, my n°3 seller...but after thinking long about it i decided their money isn't worth it (admitted i have a rather small port there making the decision a tad easier). Submitting there makes me feel like a powerless wh*re who gets badly abused by her pimp, just waiting for the next beating...
No thanks.

Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: willie on January 03, 2010, 11:56

Are Fotolia actually trying to make us all go exclusive with Istock? They certainly appear to be acting as IS's Chief Recruiting Sergeant.

 ;D ;D
this is entertainment to my sunday breakfast.

but then again, it may not be as ridiculous as it seems. after all, the CEOs came from IS.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: danrok on January 03, 2010, 12:25
If only I had the Email address of Fotolia CEO


[email protected]

http://www.facebook.com/cbridwell (http://www.facebook.com/cbridwell)
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Danicek on January 03, 2010, 12:28
I do want to complain, but feel powerless. Seriously. This is a joke.

Fill in the FT help desk ticket. Describing the fact that the witholding happens on all of your sales. There are probably others doing this, yet the more, the better. I know this may not get you anywhere, yet there is chance. Actually this is bit different than just the other stuff on which their support proved to be unresponsive. This would be clearly illegal and they will know that.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: madelaide on January 03, 2010, 13:08
I had two sales this year. One subs, no discount, 0.32 credits earned.  One XS, 0.217 credits earned (instead of 0.34).

But 0.217 is not 0.7x0.34 (=0.238).  Isn't the tax deduction 30%?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Pixart on January 03, 2010, 13:09
Considering they are withholding taxes, are they are obliged by law at the end of the year to send us a paper copy of our payroll status with a duplicate going to the IRS.  (By regular mail)  In Canada the form is called a T-4 if on payroll, I think a T4A if withholding from independent contractors.  There must be a U.S. name for this form?  It is against the law not to provide a T-4 here and the employer can get in loads of trouble if they neglect to do so.

I've only had 2 xs sales. One for .31 the other for .277.  
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Eireann on January 03, 2010, 14:17
Warren,
let me clarify this for you. As best I can.

1. If you DO submit the W8 form (no ITIN) they deduct 30 per cent on all American sales.

2. If you DON'T submit the W8 form they deduct 28 per cent (where is this 28 % coming from anyway?) from each of your sales. All of them! No matter where they came from.

This shouldn't be happening. It is either a glitch, lack of interest, or see FD-Amateur post above.
Question is what can we do to make them listen to us?
Support tickets?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: le_cyclope on January 03, 2010, 14:28

1. If you DO submit the W8 form (no ITIN) they deduct 30 per cent on all American sales.

2. If you DON'T submit the W8 form they deduct 28 per cent (where is this 28 % coming from anyway?) from each of your sales. All of them! No matter where they came from.


Correct based on my personnal situation.  Canadian resident, two sales, non of them from US, they withhold 28% because I can't submit the W8 Form (see previous post).

Let's see of other's situation to understand what is going on...

Claude
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: madelaide on January 03, 2010, 14:40
But 0.217 is not 0.7x0.34 (=0.238).  Isn't the tax deduction 30%?
Well, ok.  0.217 is 0.7x0.31.  I forgot the commission reduction.  Happy New Year, Fotolia style.  :-\
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Dark_Angel on January 03, 2010, 16:05
can anyone tell my why they want this ITIN? Shutterstock doesn't?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: danrok on January 03, 2010, 16:54
can anyone tell my why they want this ITIN? Shutterstock doesn't?


The IRS say that it is needed, if you want to make use of the Tax Treaty.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc857.html (http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc857.html)

Quote
Individuals needing an ITIN include:

   1. A nonresident alien individual eligible to obtain the benefits of a reduced rate of withholding under an income tax treaty
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: NancyCWalker on January 03, 2010, 23:43
I am not a tax expert...

US residents, citizens and people working for US companies have taxes withheld from their paychecks. This money is then forwarded on to the IRS as part of our income tax procedures. By law you will receive a W2 or 1099 by the end of January for the previous fiscal year. (Jan - Dec) This document will detail how much money has been withheld.

When you file your tax returns, due by April 15th, the IRS will cross check your stated income against what the company says they paid you and will determine if you owe more money or are due a refund. If you make under a certain dollar amount than the IRS will declare you do not owe taxes and will refund the money. Likewise if you can prove that the money should not have been held then you can submit forms to declare that and they will process them.

FT should not be keeping any of this money for themselves. It should be getting sent to the IRS. If they are not sending it then they are in violation of IRS laws.

The short version is that the money that is deducted should be going to the IRS and you will have to contact them to get it back. Monies held starting Jan. 1, 2010 will be applied towards perceived owed US income taxes that will be due April 15, 2011. 
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: antonitte03 on January 04, 2010, 02:02
I just wanted to say my grateful congratulation with you because your files has been sold.I will promise that i will visit the Tax Center and to review the information listed on that page. Thank you!




________________________
Filing Back Taxes (http://www.taxmatterssolutions.com/articles/filing-paying-back-taxes.php)
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Danicek on January 04, 2010, 02:22
From the latest info on the FT forums, it looks like people who had filled in the tax form without ITIN are subject to 30% witheld on US sales only. People that had not filled in anything are subject to 28% tax on all their sales which some hint is legal and is supposed to stay that way. We will see...
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Artemis on January 04, 2010, 08:02
Nice 'surprise' at Fotolia today:
   Photo Sale credit - File ID: 13874040 (withholdings included at 43%)

43%?!
I must be missing something. My W-8 has been filled in and approved....
Does anyone have a clue where this insane 43% might come from?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: hqimages on January 04, 2010, 08:24
Most countries outside of America (including Ireland and the UK) have a tax treaty with America to prevent double taxation, ie. The money is taxed in America, and is then taxed again in Ireland. If you live in one of these countries, you pay 0% tax once your itin (or whatever that form is) has been filed..

If you live in the US, I presume you would have declared your stock earnings and been taxed on it anyway, so again I'm presuming you will not be taxed twice, your simply being taxed at the source, instead of submitting it as part of your annual return..

Please note: You are ONLY to pay tax on sales made IN AMERICA. Any sales to Europe are not effected. We pointed this out to shutterstock when they brought this in, and they initially tried to charge tax on every sale, so if Fotolia try and tax every sale, you need to fight them on it. (it's robbery essentially because they keep the money, American revenue does not want it)
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: danrok on January 04, 2010, 10:21
Nice 'surprise' at Fotolia today:
   Photo Sale credit - File ID: 13874040 (withholdings included at 43%)

43%?!
I must be missing something. My W-8 has been filled in and approved....
Does anyone have a clue where this insane 43% might come from?

Check the actual figures, and see if you really were charged 43%.  It may be that 43% is being displayed in error.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Allsa on January 04, 2010, 11:33
They are taking 28% of each and every sale of mine. I'm from the US, and have been paying taxes on my micro earnings from the beginning, I don't need to have them withheld by Fotolia. Aren't there laws against this sort of thing; I can't believe what Fotolia is doing is legal. Has anyone tried contacting the US IRS(Internal Revenue Service) about this? If FT gets away with this, what's to stop the other agencies from doing the same thing?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: cardmaverick on January 04, 2010, 11:34
Is anyone else constantly getting a "Tax Form Formality" email every time they make a sale? I am, and I put in my W-9 like a week ago, and before that they already had my social security info for well over a year.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: lisafx on January 04, 2010, 11:53
Is anyone else constantly getting a "Tax Form Formality" email every time they make a sale? I am, and I put in my W-9 like a week ago, and before that they already had my social security info for well over a year.

Yes.  Exactly the same situation here.  Making it impossible to sort my e-mail with all that junk in there.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Allsa on January 04, 2010, 11:54
Is anyone else constantly getting a "Tax Form Formality" email every time they make a sale? I am, and I put in my W-9 like a week ago, and before that they already had my social security info for well over a year.

It's happening with me, also.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: danrok on January 04, 2010, 12:00
Seems a load of threads about tax on fotolia's forum have now been deleted, without explanation, and still no formal announcement about what is going on.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: FD on January 04, 2010, 12:28
Seems a load of threads about tax on fotolia's forum have now been deleted, without explanation, and still no formal announcement about what is going on.

I made my very first post on that forum in many years. I guess that one has been deleted too, but I don't even bother to look. I give them a while to sort it out.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Artemis on January 04, 2010, 13:07
Nice 'surprise' at Fotolia today:
   Photo Sale credit - File ID: 13874040 (withholdings included at 43%)

43%?!
I must be missing something. My W-8 has been filled in and approved....
Does anyone have a clue where this insane 43% might come from?

Check the actual figures, and see if you really were charged 43%.  It may be that 43% is being displayed in error.


Thanks Danrok! I did the maths and indeed they witheld 'only' about 30%, although the message clearly says 43%.
It was an 8 credit sale (murphy's law that only the biggest non-subscription sales are from the US? :P) for $2,26.
They withheld 0,672 (30% = 0,678, 28% would be 0,6328)
2,26 - 0,672 would be $1,588, but i earned $1,57. (2,26 - 0,678 (=>30%) would still be 1,582).

So indeed it was roughly 30%; it's the 'roughly' that's bothering me. I know they only pinched off $0,01 which definitely is not a big deal...if it happens systematically though we might be talking about big numbers that FT gets extra...
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: kingjon on January 04, 2010, 13:12
I submitted my tax form without the ITIN and this was the validation response:

"We are happy to inform you that your U.S. IRS Withholding tax form has been validated. Thank you for providing the appropriate tax information. By complying with the U.S. IRS tax law and submitting the tax form, you are not subject to automatic tax withholding at the appropriate rate on all Fotolia income. Rather, withholding tax, if applicable, may be at a reduced or zero withholding rate.

Foreign residents in a tax treaty country, and ITIN submitted with form, enjoy tax treaty benefits on U.S. source income. Foreign residents with form validated without ITIN submission, are subject to 30% withholding tax on U.S. source income".
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: melastmohican on January 04, 2010, 16:30
I actually file my W-9 on 1/2/2010, how long it would take to active it?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Dan on January 04, 2010, 17:44
just  had  2  of  3  accepted  from  the  1st.  got  2  e-mails  about  tax  form.  oh  well!!!
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: kingjon on January 04, 2010, 19:05
my tax form was validated just a couple of days after I submitted.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: elvinstar on January 04, 2010, 21:27
Where is everyone seeing the tax percent being taken off? Also I cannot find where to view whether it was a US or non-US sale? If i am a US resident and i already filled out a form in the past do I have to do it again? Or does this only apply to non-US residents. Sorry I am very confused...
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Danicek on January 05, 2010, 05:40
Where is everyone seeing the tax percent being taken off? Also I cannot find where to view whether it was a US or non-US sale? If i am a US resident and i already filled out a form in the past do I have to do it again? Or does this only apply to non-US residents. Sorry I am very confused...

When I'm logged to FT, I click on My Credits in the upper menu, there are all the sales credits like this:

   Photo Sale credit - File ID: 11224000   +1.6

   Photo Sale credit - File ID: 13848922 (withholdings included at 30%)   +1.4

The second one had witholding.

Then if you click on My Files in the upper menu Statistics in the submenu, you see options for stats viewing, the last two options are new and are for the tax stuff:

How many of my files have been viewed?
How many of my photos have been downloaded?
How many files did I buy/download?
How many credits have I earned?
How many credits have I converted?
How much is the withholding amount?
How many credit have I earned from US buyers?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: hqimages on January 05, 2010, 08:23
Where is everyone seeing the tax percent being taken off? Also I cannot find where to view whether it was a US or non-US sale? If i am a US resident and i already filled out a form in the past do I have to do it again? Or does this only apply to non-US residents. Sorry I am very confused...

If you live in Europe, and the download is made in Europe also, America cannot take any tax on that sale.. if you live in America, I'm not sure, you may just get taxed on every sale regardless of where the download occurs..
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Danicek on January 05, 2010, 09:33
Where is everyone seeing the tax percent being taken off? Also I cannot find where to view whether it was a US or non-US sale? If i am a US resident and i already filled out a form in the past do I have to do it again? Or does this only apply to non-US residents. Sorry I am very confused...

If you live in Europe, and the download is made in Europe also, America cannot take any tax on that sale.. if you live in America, I'm not sure, you may just get taxed on every sale regardless of where the download occurs..

FT is US agency. One would say your statement holds true even if the sale happens through US agent. Yet I assure you tax laws are not fully logical. So I wouldn't be surprised if under some conditions the income would get taxed.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: elvinstar on January 05, 2010, 09:45
Thanks for your reply Danicek. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: hqimages on January 05, 2010, 16:51
Where is everyone seeing the tax percent being taken off? Also I cannot find where to view whether it was a US or non-US sale? If i am a US resident and i already filled out a form in the past do I have to do it again? Or does this only apply to non-US residents. Sorry I am very confused...

If you live in Europe, and the download is made in Europe also, America cannot take any tax on that sale.. if you live in America, I'm not sure, you may just get taxed on every sale regardless of where the download occurs..

FT is US agency. One would say your statement holds true even if the sale happens through US agent. Yet I assure you tax laws are not fully logical. So I wouldn't be surprised if under some conditions the income would get taxed.

There is absolutely no way that a sale made in Europe, using a European contributor, is subject to this particular American tax, Shutterstock checked this with both their legal team and American revenue, and subsequently split all sales on their web site so that American tax is only charged to American clients.. it does sound a little complicated, but for obvious reasons if both the buyer and the uploader are located in Europe, Europe has it's own trading laws that apply, and American revenue have nothing to do with that sale as regards withholding tax at least..
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: lisafx on January 05, 2010, 17:00
my tax form was validated just a couple of days after I submitted.

What form was this?  Are you in the US or outside US?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: MikLav on January 05, 2010, 17:16
Where is everyone seeing the tax percent being taken off? Also I cannot find where to view whether it was a US or non-US sale? If i am a US resident and i already filled out a form in the past do I have to do it again? Or does this only apply to non-US residents. Sorry I am very confused...
you can see it in "My Credits", and another part in "My Files" - "Statistics" - "How many credit have I earned from US buyers?"

I live outside of the US, and I did fill W-8BEN without ITIN. Thus currently I get 30% deducted from my US sales and 0% from non-US sales.

In 2009 my US sales generated 12% of my total Fotolia sales. Thus having 30% deducted from that amount means loss of 4% total income from FL. While I don't like to loose anything, I am not sure if all the hassle obtaining the ITIN number is really worth it.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: MikLav on January 05, 2010, 17:20
There is absolutely no way that a sale made in Europe, using a European contributor, is subject to this particular American tax, Shutterstock checked this with both their legal team and American revenue, and subsequently split all sales on their web site so that American tax is only charged to American clients.. it does sound a little complicated, but for obvious reasons if both the buyer and the uploader are located in Europe, Europe has it's own trading laws that apply, and American revenue have nothing to do with that sale as regards withholding tax at least..
The key part here is "European contributor". The formal way to declare that is to fill form W-8BEN. If isn't filled in, Fotolia assume you are a US contributor and withdraws corresponding US tax.

And yes, Fotolia also split all sales to US vs non-US, and as I just mentioned in my previous post I do see it working - the tax is only applied to the US sales.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: ap on January 05, 2010, 17:33
Where is everyone seeing the tax percent being taken off? Also I cannot find where to view whether it was a US or non-US sale? If i am a US resident and i already filled out a form in the past do I have to do it again? Or does this only apply to non-US residents. Sorry I am very confused...
you can see it in "My Credits", and another part in "My Files" - "Statistics" - "How many credit have I earned from US buyers?"

thanks, i never noticed that. i am based in the us but have yet to file a w-9 form. no tax has been witheld yet and approx. 50% of my credits are through us buyers.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: madelaide on January 06, 2010, 04:38
What is still unclear to me is what are "US buyers".  Anyone using the US Fotolia site?  People who declare to be in the USA (if a uyer has to give such information)? 

If I type www.fotolia.com (http://www.fotolia.com), I am directed to the Brazilian site, but in countries that do not have a local FT site, aren't people taken to the USA site?  Someone in Australia, for instance, what site are they connected to?
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Danicek on January 06, 2010, 04:39
I'm pretty sure buyer has to provide some info in order to make the accounting stuff work for both side. I believe the 'US' customer is based on this info (i.e. where the the customer is locations/is paying taxes).
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: qwerty on January 06, 2010, 05:05
Could Fotolia come up with any more bad news for contributors.

We've had

reduction in % commission
increase in the canister levels
taxation stupidity
the worst communication plan in the world

To offset this we've had amazing announcements like

The idiots who got lost in the desert who submit photos to fotolia
Fotolia university

In the last 6 months fotolia has been Istocks best friend tipping many people over the edge to exclusivity.

I wish they would just sort this taxation mess out the same way everybody else has.


Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: lisafx on January 06, 2010, 19:10
My W-9 was approved today.  Yay!  :D
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Allsa on January 06, 2010, 20:23
My W-9 was approved today.  Yay!  :D

Mina was, too :D 
BUT how will we (meaning those of us from the US) find out the total $ paid to the IRS so we can deduct that amount from our 2010 income tax payments? Employers send W-2 forms, will Fotolia send us W-2's in January 2010? It should count as part of our income taxes.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: UncleGene on January 07, 2010, 10:20
BUT how will we (meaning those of us from the US) find out the total $ paid to the IRS so we can deduct that amount from our 2010 income tax payments? Employers send W-2 forms, will Fotolia send us W-2's in January 2010? It should count as part of our income taxes.

They are not deducting any taxes for US, it is your responsibility - I expect they will just send a copies of 1099 to IRS and to you as SS does.

What I do not understand is why they are asking for W-9 again? I believe (though I may be wrong, I've already demonstrated my perfect memory on other thread :) ) that I already submitted it last year. Employers do not ask W-9 every year, only when they hire you/
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: Allsa on January 07, 2010, 11:42
What? Did you actually read any of this thread before posting? FT has been deducting taxes from our earnings, that's what all the complaining is about, and the subject of this thread! Your response makes no sense. ???

BUT how will we (meaning those of us from the US) find out the total $ paid to the IRS so we can deduct that amount from our 2010 income tax payments? Employers send W-2 forms, will Fotolia send us W-2's in January 2010? It should count as part of our income taxes.

They are not deducting any taxes for US, it is your responsibility - I expect they will just send a copies of 1099 to IRS and to you as SS does.

What I do not understand is why they are asking for W-9 again? I believe (though I may be wrong, I've already demonstrated my perfect memory on other thread :) ) that I already submitted it last year. Employers do not ask W-9 every year, only when they hire you/
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: erwinova on January 07, 2010, 21:28
I'm from treaty country and my W-8 BEN with out ITIN form already approved by fotolia but I still pay 30% tax?

At SS filling W-8 BEN form with out ITIN you can enjoy tax treaty benefits (if you are from treaty contry), but why fotolia can not to do that? why fotolia asking for ITIN to get tax treaty benefits?
 
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: UncleGene on January 07, 2010, 23:41
What? Did you actually read any of this thread before posting? FT has been deducting taxes from our earnings, that's what all the complaining is about, and the subject of this thread! Your response makes no sense. ???

Perhaps I missed something (your post?). I do not see any withholding on my (rare) sales, though I already got couple "tax" messages.
 
Sorry for possible misleading, my reply was from my understanding of IR code, not from one of FT practices.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: madelaide on January 08, 2010, 09:06
I'm from treaty country and my W-8 BEN with out ITIN form already approved by fotolia but I still pay 30% tax?

At SS filling W-8 BEN form with out ITIN you can enjoy tax treaty benefits (if you are from treaty contry), but why fotolia can not to do that? why fotolia asking for ITIN to get tax treaty benefits?

I don't know if I am wrong, but what the treaty does is let you not pay taxes again in your country, as you have already paid in the original one - to whom FT gives the tax money.

In my case, a "non-treaty" country, not only I pay 30% to the US government, but also 27.5% (due to my current tax range) to Brazilian government.  So in the end I get half of my already small share.   ::)
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: cybernesco on January 08, 2010, 09:25
I'm from treaty country and my W-8 BEN with out ITIN form already approved by fotolia but I still pay 30% tax?

At SS filling W-8 BEN form with out ITIN you can enjoy tax treaty benefits (if you are from treaty contry), but why fotolia can not to do that? why fotolia asking for ITIN to get tax treaty benefits?

I don't know if I am wrong, but what the treaty does is let you not pay taxes again in your country, as you have already paid in the original one - to whom FT gives the tax money.

In my case, a "non-treaty" country, not only I pay 30% to the US government, but also 27.5% (due to my current tax range) to Brazilian government.  So in the end I get half of my already small share.   ::)

From the way I read it, photographers from non-treaty countries will pay 28% on all sales IF they don’t fill out W8 tax form. If they fill out a W8 tax form, they will get taxed 30% only on US sales. I guess this is an IRS requirement to show that you are not a US resident.  In my case my US sales in 2009 amounted to 14% of my total Fotolia sales. US sales have always been a small percentage with Fotolia...lets hope for your sake it stays that way  :). Denis
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: madelaide on January 08, 2010, 10:48
Denis,

It is indeed only the US sales.  Anyway, it means a 50% overall taxation in the end.

Personally, I think it is a non-sense to be so highly taxed when you do NOT live in the USA and therefore doesn't benefit of government money in infrastructure, medical services, etc.  I understand charging some tax because of doing local business, but 30% is very high. 
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: sharpshot on January 08, 2010, 11:46
I'm from treaty country and my W-8 BEN with out ITIN form already approved by fotolia but I still pay 30% tax?

At SS filling W-8 BEN form with out ITIN you can enjoy tax treaty benefits (if you are from treaty contry), but why fotolia can not to do that? why fotolia asking for ITIN to get tax treaty benefits?


I don't know if I am wrong, but what the treaty does is let you not pay taxes again in your country, as you have already paid in the original one - to whom FT gives the tax money.

In my case, a "non-treaty" country, not only I pay 30% to the US government, but also 27.5% (due to my current tax range) to Brazilian government.  So in the end I get half of my already small share.   ::)

I did a search and found this that might be worth checking out.
Quote
At this time there is no double taxation agreement, treaty or convention between Brazil and the United States. However, there is reciprocal tax treatment between Brazil and the United States.

http://www.brasilemb.org/index.php?Itemid=176&id=187&option=com_content&task=view (http://www.brasilemb.org/index.php?Itemid=176&id=187&option=com_content&task=view)
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: madelaide on January 08, 2010, 16:06
Thanks Sharpshot, I will take a look into this.  I had read in other sources that there is nothing like that between Brazil and US, but this like says otherwise.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: erwinova on January 08, 2010, 19:45
I'm from treaty country and my W-8 BEN with out ITIN form already approved by fotolia but I still pay 30% tax?

At SS filling W-8 BEN form with out ITIN you can enjoy tax treaty benefits (if you are from treaty contry), but why fotolia can not to do that? why fotolia asking for ITIN to get tax treaty benefits?

I don't know if I am wrong, but what the treaty does is let you not pay taxes again in your country, as you have already paid in the original one - to whom FT gives the tax money.

In my case, a "non-treaty" country, not only I pay 30% to the US government, but also 27.5% (due to my current tax range) to Brazilian government.  So in the end I get half of my already small share.   ::)

I still pay income tax in my country, but it's around 8%.
My concern is why I pay 30% of tax at fotolia?,  meanwhile Shutterstock give me 10% tax with same W-8 BEN form with out ITIN?

everybody need to ask this matter to fotolia.

Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: erwinova on January 08, 2010, 19:49
I'm from treaty country and my W-8 BEN with out ITIN form already approved by fotolia but I still pay 30% tax?

At SS filling W-8 BEN form with out ITIN you can enjoy tax treaty benefits (if you are from treaty contry), but why fotolia can not to do that? why fotolia asking for ITIN to get tax treaty benefits?

I don't know if I am wrong, but what the treaty does is let you not pay taxes again in your country, as you have already paid in the original one - to whom FT gives the tax money.

In my case, a "non-treaty" country, not only I pay 30% to the US government, but also 27.5% (due to my current tax range) to Brazilian government.  So in the end I get half of my already small share.   ::)

I still pay income tax in my country, but it's around 8%.
My concern is why I pay 30% of tax at fotolia?,  meanwhile Shutterstock give me 10% tax with same W-8 BEN form with out ITIN?

everybody need to ask this matter to fotolia.



Ups..I just check My Credit and Yes! they accept W-8 BEN form with out ITIN to get treaty benefits. :)
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: madelaide on January 10, 2010, 15:30
Sharpshot,

I have been checking that information, and apparently what it means is that I must only declare the net earnings I had abroad.  That is, if I earn 100 and 12 is paid in taxes in the USA, in the Brazilian tax report I say I earned 88 and will be taxed on this value only.

I wil check with the revenue service, if they ever reply...
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: sharpshot on January 10, 2010, 16:01
That seems like a sensible way to do it, I hope the revenue people agree.
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: PrincessZelda on January 14, 2010, 15:02
Madelaide,

If you are refering to the IRS then you may be in for a disappointment. I can't remember if I already posted the following on this forum before or not, so apologies if I've repeated myself.

I emailed the IRS via the US Embassy in London, about the whole ITIN issue, explaining that I am a contributor to multiple stock agencies and fotolia was the only one saying that we must have an ITIN to have 0% tax for treaty countries. I asked them detailed questions explaining that I was very confused and asked them to confirm whether or not an ITIN is necessary when submitting a W8BEN. I waited for 2 weeks and got this reply:

"Your W8BEN would be valid forever with an ITIN.  To apply use form W-7
and follow instructions implicitly."

I hope the IRS department you contact will be a lot more helpful!!!!!
Title: Re: 2010 Fotolia Tax coming !!
Post by: madelaide on January 14, 2010, 16:02
Zelda,
No, I meant I will contact the Brazilian revenue service, as the link Sharpshot provided is their legislation about double-taxation. But it's likely I won't get a proper answer too.  :D