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Author Topic: AS sells face "down" after news about FT is closing...  (Read 3165 times)

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Neurobite

« on: November 22, 2018, 07:11 »
+2
...I wonder if it is only me who is facing currently "falls" in sells at AS after the announcement that FT will be closed, while sells in SS are going up in this period... Do you think it is seasonal or, simply, new buyers have started to choose SS more often as a long-term partner after this news biased by uncertainty towards AS?


« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2018, 07:13 »
+7
...I wonder if it is only me who is facing currently "falls" in sells at AS after the announcement that FT will be closed, while sells in SS are going up in this period... Do you think it is seasonal or, simply, new buyers have started to choose SS more often as a long-term partner after this news biased by uncertainty towards AS?
I suspect its just coincidence my experience is the opposite.

Neurobite

« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2018, 07:17 »
0
...I wonder if it is only me who is facing currently "falls" in sells at AS after the announcement that FT will be closed, while sells in SS are going up in this period... Do you think it is seasonal or, simply, new buyers have started to choose SS more often as a long-term partner after this news biased by uncertainty towards AS?
I suspect its just coincidence my experience is the opposite.

...ok, thanks, I hope you are right!

« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2018, 07:19 »
0
...I wonder if it is only me who is facing currently "falls" in sells at AS after the announcement that FT will be closed, while sells in SS are going up in this period... Do you think it is seasonal or, simply, new buyers have started to choose SS more often as a long-term partner after this news biased by uncertainty towards AS?

Not at all, you can see the recent threads about SS being almost completely dead for a week or so while AS was growing good and many of us got 100$ sales at AS right about that time. I'd say it's seasonal after all.

« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2018, 07:22 »
0
It could also be because of the way your assets are key-worded as AS uses the first keywords as most relevant.

Neurobite

« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2018, 07:24 »
0
...I wonder if it is only me who is facing currently "falls" in sells at AS after the announcement that FT will be closed, while sells in SS are going up in this period... Do you think it is seasonal or, simply, new buyers have started to choose SS more often as a long-term partner after this news biased by uncertainty towards AS?

Not at all, you can see the recent threads about SS being almost completely dead for a week or so while AS was growing good and many of us got 100$ sales at AS right about that time. I'd say it's seasonal after all.

...funny, in my case SS is more than alive, it is boosting with life... :) But FT was super good in October, and now it is obviously going down in November, as far as I can see by today...

« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2018, 07:27 »
+2
...I wonder if it is only me who is facing currently "falls" in sells at AS after the announcement that FT will be closed, while sells in SS are going up in this period... Do you think it is seasonal or, simply, new buyers have started to choose SS more often as a long-term partner after this news biased by uncertainty towards AS?

Not at all, you can see the recent threads about SS being almost completely dead for a week or so while AS was growing good and many of us got 100$ sales at AS right about that time. I'd say it's seasonal after all.

...funny, in my case SS is more than alive, it is boosting with life... :) But FT was super good in October, and now it is obviously going down in November, as far as I can see by today...
It just illustrates you just can't read too much into one (or even a few people's) figures....people have been predicting the imminent collapse of SS for years on the basis that they have had a bad month ;-0.

Neurobite

« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2018, 07:31 »
0
It could also be because of the way your assets are key-worded as AS uses the first keywords as most relevant.

...thanks for the note but it was before like that with FT, so AS is using the same principle? Because for SS keywords order is irrelevant... they all arranged alphabetically... this is how I upload them to AS as well, never spent a bit of time to rearrange them, too much efforts... they still sell... :) Do you think it makes big difference in selling? :)

« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2018, 07:49 »
0
It could also be because of the way your assets are key-worded as AS uses the first keywords as most relevant.

...thanks for the note but it was before like that with FT, so AS is using the same principle? Because for SS keywords order is irrelevant... they all arranged alphabetically... this is how I upload them to AS as well, never spent a bit of time to rearrange them, too much efforts... they still sell... :) Do you think it makes big difference in selling? :)

Ah ok, didn't know FT was already working the same way.
Not sure if that makes a big difference, but I'm guessing it moves your photos up in the page rankings, so they are not buried under the rest, and get more exposure for clients who give up searching after 10 pages.

Neurobite

« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2018, 08:01 »
0
...I just checked my data for FT sells in 2017, in Sep-Nov it was above year average for about 20-30%, there were in fact no "downs" as I see it now... As far as I can tell, really seasonal "downs" appear only in summer months, when majority of buyers in the Northern hemisphere are at holidays... :) In other months of the year, I do not really see any seasonal fluctuations, maybe a bit in December... :)

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2018, 04:58 »
+1
It could also be because of the way your assets are key-worded as AS uses the first keywords as most relevant.

...thanks for the note but it was before like that with FT, so AS is using the same principle? Because for SS keywords order is irrelevant... they all arranged alphabetically... this is how I upload them to AS as well, never spent a bit of time to rearrange them, too much efforts... they still sell... :) Do you think it makes big difference in selling? :)

Yes the first seven words make a big difference at AS and no difference at SS.

If you don't have the important words first at AS you are missing sales and will often not be found in the search.

Neurobite

« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2018, 07:05 »
0
It could also be because of the way your assets are key-worded as AS uses the first keywords as most relevant.

...thanks for the note but it was before like that with FT, so AS is using the same principle? Because for SS keywords order is irrelevant... they all arranged alphabetically... this is how I upload them to AS as well, never spent a bit of time to rearrange them, too much efforts... they still sell... :) Do you think it makes big difference in selling? :)

Yes the first seven words make a big difference at AS and no difference at SS.

If you don't have the important words first at AS you are missing sales and will often not be found in the search.

...yes, thanks, sounds horrible, can't even imagine how many good sells I have missed so far at FT since I never do keyword rearrangements... :) but seriously, is there any proof with some calculations here in the Forum or anywhere else that: 7 most relevant keywords on the top of 50 keywords ... versus ... all keywords randomly arranged ->> do indeed make more sells??? Just to have some estimate how many sells I am loosing? If there is a good number, if so, it will motivate me better to spend more efforts to do so... :)

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2018, 10:32 »
+2
It could also be because of the way your assets are key-worded as AS uses the first keywords as most relevant.

...thanks for the note but it was before like that with FT, so AS is using the same principle? Because for SS keywords order is irrelevant... they all arranged alphabetically... this is how I upload them to AS as well, never spent a bit of time to rearrange them, too much efforts... they still sell... :) Do you think it makes big difference in selling? :)

Yes the first seven words make a big difference at AS and no difference at SS.

If you don't have the important words first at AS you are missing sales and will often not be found in the search.

...yes, thanks, sounds horrible, can't even imagine how many good sells I have missed so far at FT since I never do keyword rearrangements... :) but seriously, is there any proof with some calculations here in the Forum or anywhere else that: 7 most relevant keywords on the top of 50 keywords ... versus ... all keywords randomly arranged ->> do indeed make more sells??? Just to have some estimate how many sells I am loosing? If there is a good number, if so, it will motivate me better to spend more efforts to do so... :)

The keyword order is about weighting and priority. Just for a simple example, you have a golden retriever puppy playing with a ball. You have alpha sort, who knows what, people who take the time to arrange words, will come up before you, and for that mater, your images may never be seen. While the images that show first will be Retriever, Golden, Dog, Ball, playing, puppy... what's most important?

A buyer is looking for a "golden retriever puppy", instead of seeing your work on FT/AS, they will see everyone else, because yours will have (for example) animal, adorable, baby, background, ball, chew, cute, dog, face which isn't representative or useful at all.

If this is a big time problem, you might just edit your best photos of each series and see?

The first five are primary words, the next two are less important.

Neurobite

« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2018, 11:13 »
0
It could also be because of the way your assets are key-worded as AS uses the first keywords as most relevant.

...thanks for the note but it was before like that with FT, so AS is using the same principle? Because for SS keywords order is irrelevant... they all arranged alphabetically... this is how I upload them to AS as well, never spent a bit of time to rearrange them, too much efforts... they still sell... :) Do you think it makes big difference in selling? :)

Yes the first seven words make a big difference at AS and no difference at SS.

If you don't have the important words first at AS you are missing sales and will often not be found in the search.

...yes, thanks, sounds horrible, can't even imagine how many good sells I have missed so far at FT since I never do keyword rearrangements... :) but seriously, is there any proof with some calculations here in the Forum or anywhere else that: 7 most relevant keywords on the top of 50 keywords ... versus ... all keywords randomly arranged ->> do indeed make more sells??? Just to have some estimate how many sells I am loosing? If there is a good number, if so, it will motivate me better to spend more efforts to do so... :)

The keyword order is about weighting and priority. Just for a simple example, you have a golden retriever puppy playing with a ball. You have alpha sort, who knows what, people who take the time to arrange words, will come up before you, and for that mater, your images may never be seen. While the images that show first will be Retriever, Golden, Dog, Ball, playing, puppy... what's most important?

A buyer is looking for a "golden retriever puppy", instead of seeing your work on FT/AS, they will see everyone else, because yours will have (for example) animal, adorable, baby, background, ball, chew, cute, dog, face which isn't representative or useful at all.

If this is a big time problem, you might just edit your best photos of each series and see?

The first five are primary words, the next two are less important.

...yes, it is very logical to me, but this is a theory, unless, somebody did analysis of this algorithm in a real situation, basically a test, an experiment with real numbers, not assumptions... :) I would assume somebody did it already here or elsewhere and can share the knowledge... :) if not, probably I can do this myself with a set of my new images (old not good), e.g. I can divide a series of 4 images half, 2 will be with randomly ordered keywords, and other 2 with 5 keywords the most relevant on the top, and see after which one from these two groups will sell better... :) The problem is that IPTC data do not support keyword order arrangement, so one has to do it manually at the FT or AS website, and there is no tool which would allow to do it for similar assets simultaneously, you have to do it one by one, and thus, it is very laborious and time consuming... :)   


« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2018, 12:00 »
+1
Would be good also to check page rankings for the 2 different batches of images based on relevant search terms.

If you do your metadata in photoshop, it keeps the order of the keywords, it doesn't rearrange them alphabetically.

Neurobite

« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2018, 12:47 »
0
Would be good also to check page rankings for the 2 different batches of images based on relevant search terms.

If you do your metadata in photoshop, it keeps the order of the keywords, it doesn't rearrange them alphabetically.

...thanks, a nice tip, never did keywording in PS... does it really preserve the order? :) so you do it with File ->File Info -> Basic or IPTC

derek

    This user is banned.
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2018, 12:52 »
+1
Since I turned Emerald at FT over 2 years back its been a steady decline!  first one to notice that was Lisafx!  she is not with us anymore but her observation was spot on!

« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2018, 13:01 »
+1
Would be good also to check page rankings for the 2 different batches of images based on relevant search terms.

If you do your metadata in photoshop, it keeps the order of the keywords, it doesn't rearrange them alphabetically.

...thanks, a nice tip, never did keywording in PS... does it really preserve the order? :) so you do it with File ->File Info -> Basic or IPTC

Yep I always do mine in there out of habit. File>File info> basic and then you've got to fill out document title, description and keywords (each separated by a coma). Just checked on my last batch on AS, and the order of keywords was kept as it was written in photoshop.

« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2018, 13:02 »
0
Since I turned Emerald at FT over 2 years back its been a steady decline!  first one to notice that was Lisafx!  she is not with us anymore but her observation was spot on!


No, there are no such thing as caps.  ;)

derek

    This user is banned.
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2018, 14:16 »
0
Since I turned Emerald at FT over 2 years back its been a steady decline!  first one to notice that was Lisafx!  she is not with us anymore but her observation was spot on!


No, there are no such thing as caps.  ;)

Actually its not that kind of cap!!  but to save paying out commission they rather via the algorithm direct sales to contributors with a lower royalty percentage and that way save millions in payouts!.....SS does exactly the same, have been doing it for years now....DT will rob the rich and give it to the poor, justyfying it all in the name of fairness!...business must be fair!!  ever heard anything so stupid??

« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2018, 16:38 »
0
Since I turned Emerald at FT over 2 years back its been a steady decline!  first one to notice that was Lisafx!  she is not with us anymore but her observation was spot on!


No, there are no such thing as caps.  ;)

Actually its not that kind of cap!!  but to save paying out commission they rather via the algorithm direct sales to contributors with a lower royalty percentage and that way save millions in payouts!.....SS does exactly the same, have been doing it for years now....DT will rob the rich and give it to the poor, justyfying it all in the name of fairness!...business must be fair!!  ever heard anything so stupid??
Maybe so if business doesn't need to be fair then theres no problem with "caps" then or should business just be fair to you?

derek

    This user is banned.
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2018, 17:17 »
0
Since I turned Emerald at FT over 2 years back its been a steady decline!  first one to notice that was Lisafx!  she is not with us anymore but her observation was spot on!


No, there are no such thing as caps.  ;)

Actually its not that kind of cap!!  but to save paying out commission they rather via the algorithm direct sales to contributors with a lower royalty percentage and that way save millions in payouts!.....SS does exactly the same, have been doing it for years now....DT will rob the rich and give it to the poor, justyfying it all in the name of fairness!...business must be fair!!  ever heard anything so stupid??
Maybe so if business doesn't need to be fair then theres no problem with "caps" then or should business just be fair to you?

Paws!  this is an old story! according to some people its been going on for years and why not? its business and business means earning with any means possible!...first I heard about is was about 5 years back! and I tend to agree with it as I am experiencing it!

« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2018, 18:56 »
+3
It could also be because of the way your assets are key-worded as AS uses the first keywords as most relevant.

...thanks for the note but it was before like that with FT, so AS is using the same principle? Because for SS keywords order is irrelevant... they all arranged alphabetically... this is how I upload them to AS as well, never spent a bit of time to rearrange them, too much efforts... they still sell... :) Do you think it makes big difference in selling? :)

Yes the first seven words make a big difference at AS and no difference at SS.

If you don't have the important words first at AS you are missing sales and will often not be found in the search.

...yes, thanks, sounds horrible, can't even imagine how many good sells I have missed so far at FT since I never do keyword rearrangements... :) but seriously, is there any proof with some calculations here in the Forum or anywhere else that: 7 most relevant keywords on the top of 50 keywords ... versus ... all keywords randomly arranged ->> do indeed make more sells??? Just to have some estimate how many sells I am loosing? If there is a good number, if so, it will motivate me better to spend more efforts to do so... :)

50 keywords is a load man. 10-20 relevant words is way better than a whole mess of irrelevant ones.

« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2018, 19:12 »
+1

...yes, it is very logical to me, but this is a theory, unless, somebody did analysis of this algorithm in a real situation, basically a test, an experiment with real numbers, not assumptions... :) I would assume somebody did it already here or elsewhere and can share the knowledge... :)


Mat Hayward - Adobe's contributor rep - relayed information from one of Adobe's product managers about how it worked. It's possible that it has since changed or the information was wrong in the first place, but not sure how you could possibly do a valid test live, given the need for the same file with the same sales record and upload dates with two different keyword orders to check differences in search rank. Given that, why not go with what Adobe says about how they made it work?

http://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/new-adobe-stock-portal-feature!/msg502623/#msg502623

http://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/adobe-stockfotolia-keyword-ranking/msg492118/#msg492118

Ordering keywords for newly uploaded files isn't hard. For older files, I would only make changes for your known (from other sites) best sellers to save time.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2018, 21:49 »
+1

...yes, it is very logical to me, but this is a theory, unless, somebody did analysis of this algorithm in a real situation, basically a test, an experiment with real numbers, not assumptions... :) I would assume somebody did it already here or elsewhere and can share the knowledge... :)


Mat Hayward - Adobe's contributor rep - relayed information from one of Adobe's product managers about how it worked. It's possible that it has since changed or the information was wrong in the first place, but not sure how you could possibly do a valid test live, given the need for the same file with the same sales record and upload dates with two different keyword orders to check differences in search rank. Given that, why not go with what Adobe says about how they made it work?

http://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/new-adobe-stock-portal-feature!/msg502623/#msg502623

http://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/adobe-stockfotolia-keyword-ranking/msg492118/#msg492118

Ordering keywords for newly uploaded files isn't hard. For older files, I would only make changes for your known (from other sites) best sellers to save time.


Thank you, let me put it another way. The reason we know that the first keywords are most important is that they told us. FT said the first nine, years ago. AS says the first seven and the first five are blue, for most important the editor of AS.

I wish people would question the conspiracy theories and false caps or how once you go emerald your sales drop, as much as they question anything the agencies tell us straight out. Because someone said so. Or someone claims to know a friend who thinks so.

If someone deosn't believe AS just keyword two images, one with the first seven relevant and the other with the same words last, and search. Make sure they are very distinctive, unique words, so you don't have to fish down 100 pages to find the one with the words last, is invisible. It won't show, ever for thosse words.

Also as Jo Ann writes, 50 keywords is too many. Imagine that, the agency weights the first seven heaviest. What are the other 43 there for? And don't forget SS changes the words order, to what they find most important or relevant, and that changes. Still 50 words is far too many. I suppose someone desperate will hope that some obscure unrelated word will make a sale. WHY?


 

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