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Author Topic: AS sells face "down" after news about FT is closing...  (Read 3097 times)

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Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2018, 21:53 »
0
...I wonder if it is only me who is facing currently "falls" in sells at AS after the announcement that FT will be closed, while sells in SS are going up in this period... Do you think it is seasonal or, simply, new buyers have started to choose SS more often as a long-term partner after this news biased by uncertainty towards AS?

I see no change and no reason why in one week, after announcing the location of images would change from two mirrored sites to one main site, in Nov. 2019 would suddenly crash sales and buyers would leave? Really? That's pretty radical.


« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2018, 23:59 »
0
It could also be because of the way your assets are key-worded as AS uses the first keywords as most relevant.

...thanks for the note but it was before like that with FT, so AS is using the same principle? Because for SS keywords order is irrelevant... they all arranged alphabetically... this is how I upload them to AS as well, never spent a bit of time to rearrange them, too much efforts... they still sell... :) Do you think it makes big difference in selling? :)

Yes the first seven words make a big difference at AS and no difference at SS.

If you don't have the important words first at AS you are missing sales and will often not be found in the search.

...yes, thanks, sounds horrible, can't even imagine how many good sells I have missed so far at FT since I never do keyword rearrangements... :) but seriously, is there any proof with some calculations here in the Forum or anywhere else that: 7 most relevant keywords on the top of 50 keywords ... versus ... all keywords randomly arranged ->> do indeed make more sells??? Just to have some estimate how many sells I am loosing? If there is a good number, if so, it will motivate me better to spend more efforts to do so... :)

I re-pass my port in AS and can tell you it cost me 12 sec per image to select top 7 keywords, so it's 300 per hour, just do it, it worth...

Neurobite

« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2018, 05:03 »
0
It could also be because of the way your assets are key-worded as AS uses the first keywords as most relevant.

...thanks for the note but it was before like that with FT, so AS is using the same principle? Because for SS keywords order is irrelevant... they all arranged alphabetically... this is how I upload them to AS as well, never spent a bit of time to rearrange them, too much efforts... they still sell... :) Do you think it makes big difference in selling? :)

Yes the first seven words make a big difference at AS and no difference at SS.

If you don't have the important words first at AS you are missing sales and will often not be found in the search.

...yes, thanks, sounds horrible, can't even imagine how many good sells I have missed so far at FT since I never do keyword rearrangements... :) but seriously, is there any proof with some calculations here in the Forum or anywhere else that: 7 most relevant keywords on the top of 50 keywords ... versus ... all keywords randomly arranged ->> do indeed make more sells??? Just to have some estimate how many sells I am loosing? If there is a good number, if so, it will motivate me better to spend more efforts to do so... :)

50 keywords is a load man. 10-20 relevant words is way better than a whole mess of irrelevant ones.

...well, I am not sure, just will give you an example, what 40 keywords for the attached image would you remove? :)

50 keywords:
Europe, Iceland, Icelandic, Nordic, adventure, arctic, attraction, backpacking, beverage, coast, coffee, doing, drink, drinking, environment, field, flowers, force of nature, freedom, grass, hiking, hot, island, journey, land, landscape, making, meal, morning, mountains, nature, outdoors, polar, process, remote, scene, scenic, sea, seashore, self-made, skogarfoss, summer, tent, travel, trekking, volcanic, volcano, wakeup, warm, waterfall



Neurobite

« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2018, 06:02 »
0
...just to add another idea about keywords (I hope AS is reading this topic):

I wish that in the new edition of the AS design, there will be implemented the following improvements regarding keywording:

1) batch editing for keywords and titles;
2) in the Dashboard, there will be a list of all photos/illustrations/videos (it is more useful than a gallery);
3) in the list of all photos/illustrations/videos... there will be a column of "Number of Views", as it is in FT;
4) in the table Insights -> My Statistics -> Activity, it will be given an additional column with "keyword searched" (with what keywords this particular sell was found by the buyer), could be a very useful tool;


« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2018, 12:50 »
+6
...well, I am not sure, just will give you an example, what 40 keywords for the attached image would you remove? :)

50 keywords:
Europe, Iceland, Icelandic, Nordic, adventure, arctic, attraction, backpacking, beverage, coast, coffee, doing, drink, drinking, environment, field, flowers, force of nature, freedom, grass, hiking, hot, island, journey, land, landscape, making, meal, morning, mountains, nature, outdoors, polar, process, remote, scene, scenic, sea, seashore, self-made, skogarfoss, summer, tent, travel, trekking, volcanic, volcano, wakeup, warm, waterfall

Did you mean this to be an example of keyword spam?

Many of those keywords are just wrong - sea, coast and seashore, for example - and some are unlikely to be useful in a search - attraction, self-made, force of nature, scene, process, and doing, for example. Others are a real stretch - I can's see any flowers anywhere; how can you include both Nordic and Icelandic - one of those is wrong; polar - do you mean the latitude is north of the arctic circle?; volcano - where?; hot; meal, backpacking - do you see a backpack or anyone wearing a backpack in this photo?;

As far as how I'd order these for AS, I'd choose (assuming this is in Iceland, not Norway) waterfall, Iceland, tent, coffee, camping, (name of waterfall if it's well-known), remote,.

Neurobite

« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2018, 13:26 »
0
...well, I am not sure, just will give you an example, what 40 keywords for the attached image would you remove? :)

50 keywords:
Europe, Iceland, Icelandic, Nordic, adventure, arctic, attraction, backpacking, beverage, coast, coffee, doing, drink, drinking, environment, field, flowers, force of nature, freedom, grass, hiking, hot, island, journey, land, landscape, making, meal, morning, mountains, nature, outdoors, polar, process, remote, scene, scenic, sea, seashore, self-made, skogarfoss, summer, tent, travel, trekking, volcanic, volcano, wakeup, warm, waterfall

Did you mean this to be an example of keyword spam?

Many of those keywords are just wrong - sea, coast and seashore, for example - and some are unlikely to be useful in a search - attraction, self-made, force of nature, scene, process, and doing, for example. Others are a real stretch - I can's see any flowers anywhere; how can you include both Nordic and Icelandic - one of those is wrong; polar - do you mean the latitude is north of the arctic circle?; volcano - where?; hot; meal, backpacking - do you see a backpack or anyone wearing a backpack in this photo?;

As far as how I'd order these for AS, I'd choose (assuming this is in Iceland, not Norway) waterfall, Iceland, tent, coffee, camping, (name of waterfall if it's well-known), remote,.

...Well, I agree and disagree at the same time... :) You can think of "coast" is not relevant here, but I would argue, if a buyer will search a waterfall in Iceland at the southern coastal side of the island, he/she will find mine... :) cause this waterfall is at seaside; Nordic is for all countries in the region in Northern Europe, including Iceland... :) see wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries 
Volcanoes - they are every 5 m on Iceland, trust me, I've been there 4x times... :) and actually this particular waterfall "Skogarfoss" is built by a volcano, it is a volcano itself... :) backpacking - is what you do when you carry a backpack with a tent and sleeping bag, this is a word which is used by people who love nature and travel with a tent... 100% relevant :) ... and so on... the only a word which I would remove is "sea"... "flowers" they are there, you can not see them because of image resolution... :)

But anyway, thanks for your comments and evaluation of my keywords... :)

« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2018, 02:49 »
0
I'd remove at least 'coast', 'sea' and 'seashore' as they are not visible on the photo. You can mention it in the description if this place is near the sea but a buyer looking for coast and sea pictures will get quite annoyed if your photo comes up.

« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2018, 04:13 »
+3
...well, I am not sure, just will give you an example, what 40 keywords for the attached image would you remove? :)

50 keywords:
Europe, Iceland, Icelandic, Nordic, adventure, arctic, attraction, backpacking, beverage, coast, coffee, doing, drink, drinking, environment, field, flowers, force of nature, freedom, grass, hiking, hot, island, journey, land, landscape, making, meal, morning, mountains, nature, outdoors, polar, process, remote, scene, scenic, sea, seashore, self-made, skogarfoss, summer, tent, travel, trekking, volcanic, volcano, wakeup, warm, waterfall

Did you mean this to be an example of keyword spam?

Many of those keywords are just wrong - sea, coast and seashore, for example - and some are unlikely to be useful in a search - attraction, self-made, force of nature, scene, process, and doing, for example. Others are a real stretch - I can's see any flowers anywhere; how can you include both Nordic and Icelandic - one of those is wrong; polar - do you mean the latitude is north of the arctic circle?; volcano - where?; hot; meal, backpacking - do you see a backpack or anyone wearing a backpack in this photo?;

As far as how I'd order these for AS, I'd choose (assuming this is in Iceland, not Norway) waterfall, Iceland, tent, coffee, camping, (name of waterfall if it's well-known), remote,.

...Well, I agree and disagree at the same time... :) You can think of "coast" is not relevant here, but I would argue, if a buyer will search a waterfall in Iceland at the southern coastal side of the island, he/she will find mine... :) cause this waterfall is at seaside; Nordic is for all countries in the region in Northern Europe, including Iceland... :) see wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries 
Volcanoes - they are every 5 m on Iceland, trust me, I've been there 4x times... :) and actually this particular waterfall "Skogarfoss" is built by a volcano, it is a volcano itself... :) backpacking - is what you do when you carry a backpack with a tent and sleeping bag, this is a word which is used by people who love nature and travel with a tent... 100% relevant :) ... and so on... the only a word which I would remove is "sea"... "flowers" they are there, you can not see them because of image resolution... :)

But anyway, thanks for your comments and evaluation of my keywords... :)

Keep convincing yourself.  You know the keywords Jo Ann pointed out are just fluff.

While you might continue to kid yourself they are relevant what you don't realise is that everytime buyers search for images and come up with irrelevant results your images get marked down as less relevant.

Describe only what is in the image not what is imagined by you ~ its just spamming

I love this justification "flowers" they are there, you can not see them because of image resolution..." ~ good grief what nonsense

Neurobite

« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2018, 07:44 »
0
...well, I am not sure, just will give you an example, what 40 keywords for the attached image would you remove? :)

50 keywords:
Europe, Iceland, Icelandic, Nordic, adventure, arctic, attraction, backpacking, beverage, coast, coffee, doing, drink, drinking, environment, field, flowers, force of nature, freedom, grass, hiking, hot, island, journey, land, landscape, making, meal, morning, mountains, nature, outdoors, polar, process, remote, scene, scenic, sea, seashore, self-made, skogarfoss, summer, tent, travel, trekking, volcanic, volcano, wakeup, warm, waterfall

Did you mean this to be an example of keyword spam?

Many of those keywords are just wrong - sea, coast and seashore, for example - and some are unlikely to be useful in a search - attraction, self-made, force of nature, scene, process, and doing, for example. Others are a real stretch - I can's see any flowers anywhere; how can you include both Nordic and Icelandic - one of those is wrong; polar - do you mean the latitude is north of the arctic circle?; volcano - where?; hot; meal, backpacking - do you see a backpack or anyone wearing a backpack in this photo?;

As far as how I'd order these for AS, I'd choose (assuming this is in Iceland, not Norway) waterfall, Iceland, tent, coffee, camping, (name of waterfall if it's well-known), remote,.

...Well, I agree and disagree at the same time... :) You can think of "coast" is not relevant here, but I would argue, if a buyer will search a waterfall in Iceland at the southern coastal side of the island, he/she will find mine... :) cause this waterfall is at seaside; Nordic is for all countries in the region in Northern Europe, including Iceland... :) see wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries 
Volcanoes - they are every 5 m on Iceland, trust me, I've been there 4x times... :) and actually this particular waterfall "Skogarfoss" is built by a volcano, it is a volcano itself... :) backpacking - is what you do when you carry a backpack with a tent and sleeping bag, this is a word which is used by people who love nature and travel with a tent... 100% relevant :) ... and so on... the only a word which I would remove is "sea"... "flowers" they are there, you can not see them because of image resolution... :)

But anyway, thanks for your comments and evaluation of my keywords... :)

Keep convincing yourself.  You know the keywords Jo Ann pointed out are just fluff.

While you might continue to kid yourself they are relevant what you don't realise is that everytime buyers search for images and come up with irrelevant results your images get marked down as less relevant.

Describe only what is in the image not what is imagined by you ~ its just spamming

I love this justification "flowers" they are there, you can not see them because of image resolution..." ~ good grief what nonsense

...well, OK, I will try to defend my point of you once more, but this will be last time! :) Who did not understand, I am sorry, go and read some marketing books... :) or keep going in convincing yourselves your keywording strategy is only right... :)

1) I do not need to convince myself in anything, since a) my images pass reviewers evaluation (>75% pass) and b) they sell very good (in average, every second images sells, every fifth more than 20 times...); this fully convinces me my strategy in using 50 keywords is correct, it could be better (e.g. to put 5 first the most relevant keywords, never tried that yet, might improve the sells), but for sure, definitely, it is not wrong;
2) There are 2 main strategies to deal with keywords, they both correct: a) either you use very narrow completely dried up of flavor and concepts keywords (as it was suggested above, when you keyword just what you see in the image) b) or you use a broader spectrum of keywords (mostly adding conceptual, abstract and imaginary keywords);
3) Rule number one in marketing says: if you want to sell well and target as much buyers as possible, put your head into buyers heads...  and such heads are literally millions worldwide now, every head bears: different concepts, needs, education, mentality, English level, ideas, culture, sense of art ...etc you name it... some people know what they want exactly, then "waterfall", "Iceland", "Skogarfoss" will be enough for them (mostly only these people you target if you use strategy number 1)... some people vaguely know that Iceland exists, but they want some waterfall in Northern Europe... some people might have no clear picture what they want just a slight idea: I need some image depicting power of nature + tent ... some people may have deeper knowledge about Iceland, so they will search a waterfall at seaside (there are a few of them in Iceland, but they all with long and difficult to remember names)... I do not want to loose such buyers, this is why I do utilize a broader spectrum yet relevant keywords... :) and here you are right, I use my imagination to have an idea how other people may think and search, and how my image should be found by them... :)
4) spamming words for the image above would be: Reykjavik, glacier, woman, people, travel agency, cruise, hotel, pop star, Dettifoss (very popular waterfall on Iceland), Landmannalaugar (very touristic colorful mountains on Iceland)... etc :)

Everybody has just different strategies...

"everytime buyers search for images and come up with irrelevant results your images get marked down as less relevant" - sorry, do you have an evidence of such thing??? If you do, please, share!!! I do not think technically it is possible, 100M+ images in real time dynamically label in 1M search hourly, correcting every last search based on this massive database... this is a nonsense, too costly, too slow, how does it help to sell images better? :) You need a supercomputer, energy and manpower to run such algorithm... I do not believe in it, unless, it is proved... :)

***



« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2018, 08:02 »
+2
Well and truly over thought there.  ;D


Neurobite

« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2018, 08:08 »
0
Well and truly over thought there.  ;D

...hahaha, it could be an over thought for a sms, for sure, but not for a forum, where people share opinions and expertise... :)

« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2018, 10:29 »
+1
Its actually very easy for agencies to calculate the ratio of zooms to initial search returns which is a good guide to the potential relevance of keywords ask Alamy.

Neurobite

« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2018, 10:58 »
0
Its actually very easy for agencies to calculate the ratio of zooms to initial search returns which is a good guide to the potential relevance of keywords ask Alamy.

...it is not only a way (image keywords match to buyers expectations) how buyers decide to buy or not to buy an image... :) some people buy just because they like the photo :), some buy a random image for which keyword relevance ration is somewhere in the middle, again, just because they like it, or needed for other projects.. :) Some years ago, I had a lot of work as a designer, though, these guys spend a lot of time in microstock websites..., for many of them, microstocks are like "facebook", "pintersest" or similar kind, they look for not a particular image but for ideas, interesting concepts, inspiration... :) all these views, clicks, zooms...etc are not 100% reflect whatever keyword relevance to sells, some just pure interest, curiosity, maybe a future buy as the best... :)

« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2018, 11:01 »
0
I was responding to this

"everytime buyers search for images and come up with irrelevant results your images get marked down as less relevant" - sorry, do you have an evidence of such thing???"


« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2018, 11:10 »
+5
I was responding to this

"everytime buyers search for images and come up with irrelevant results your images get marked down as less relevant" - sorry, do you have an evidence of such thing???"

It is safe to assume that if an image appears in a certain search result, is seen by the customer and not purchased that the image drops lower in the search results. It is best to only add keywords that are relevant to the image. Irrelevant keywords may be considered spam and have a negative effect on both the potential of success for your file and on the customer experience.

-Mat

« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2018, 11:20 »
+2
I was responding to this

"everytime buyers search for images and come up with irrelevant results your images get marked down as less relevant" - sorry, do you have an evidence of such thing???"

It is safe to assume that if an image appears in a certain search result, is seen by the customer and not purchased that the image drops lower in the search results. It is best to only add keywords that are relevant to the image. Irrelevant keywords may be considered spam and have a negative effect on both the potential of success for your file and on the customer experience.

-Mat

Thank you Mat I could not have said it better myself :)

and that is why (as I mentioned) spamming your keywords actually has a negative effect on your image sales  ;)


« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2018, 11:26 »
0
I was responding to this

"everytime buyers search for images and come up with irrelevant results your images get marked down as less relevant" - sorry, do you have an evidence of such thing???"

It is frequently quoted by some agencies keyword spamming has a detrimental effect and I refer to Mat's reply above

Is that sufficient?

« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2018, 12:31 »
0
When Adobe bought Fotolia, my sales fell considerably. Now, four months ago, sales are solid and with good commissions, nothing to complain about. My RPD has increased.
90% of sales to USA.

About the key words I also put around 40.
I know Fotolia says to put the top 7 first and I do it.

But I understand what the Neurobite cited about using "imagination," without making the image a true spam. Using concept keywords, entering the buyer's mind, emotion, colors, day or night etc, helped me sell images. I know from SS statistics.
I believe what Mat said, images seen and without purchase, fall in the search.

If an image sells well at first, it will always sell, so it works for me on Fotolia.
Some that I sell well in Istock or SS, do not sell well on Fotolia and on the contrary as well.
I have a video that sells every 2 days on SS. In Adobe it sells only once a month, when it sells. Anyway, I believe this is normal.
Same key words.

What I do with the images that I do not sell in Fotlia is to use the ADOBE platform, and change the key words, for who knows, so change it in the search. Before with Fotolia you could not get or add keywords.

It depends on work and luck, too, I think.
What could help and much to us collaborators, would be the sales insigths, which keywords sell the most, just as the SS has.
It would be amazing if Adobe had these numbers for us.

Consider that I am no professional and I only have 700 images / videos for sale on Fotolia.

Good luck to all

Neurobite

« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2018, 13:35 »
0
I was responding to this

"everytime buyers search for images and come up with irrelevant results your images get marked down as less relevant" - sorry, do you have an evidence of such thing???"

It is safe to assume that if an image appears in a certain search result, is seen by the customer and not purchased that the image drops lower in the search results. It is best to only add keywords that are relevant to the image. Irrelevant keywords may be considered spam and have a negative effect on both the potential of success for your file and on the customer experience.

-Mat

...Thanks Mat for jumping into this discussion; only you can clarify things which are in mind of AS contributors... :) However, even good assumptions do not build strong bridges.. :) I still have a few unclear for me points:

1) Does AS algorithm really punish ("drops lower in the search results") good images because they were viewed but not purchased??? :) Do you know that any buyer (!!!) before buying an image selects 10 best ones, carefully looks at them, then selects 3 from 10, and then goes to sleep, next morning, he/she has to do a hard task, to select 1 from 3 and buy it... Though, in other words, AS assigns less weights to those poor 9 images, because they were viewed but not purchased? Do I understand it correctly?

2) What does it have to do with bad, spam, fishing keywording? You name it... Because, if a buyer is looking for an apple, but a page with 100 results shows him/her 1 peach, in 99% the buyer even will not look at it, no clicks, no views, you have no data to work with, and the algorithm has no idea, why peach was not viewed, is that because bad keywords, or because some other 100+ parameters: colors, background, composition, crop... :) In other words, it is extremely difficult task to look into "black matter" of buyers mentality and predict their behavior... :)

3) I think the best way, and, probably, the only way, to fight spammers and fishers is to use an image recognition system, an AI (there are a lot of them already in the market), and delete the most irrelevant keywords at the stage of submitting your content... SS is already doing this... I think AS is already using a kind of this artificial intelligence (AI) software, because it can recognize duplicates or very similar content in your portfolio and reject them for submission... :) The same should be done for keywords!!! :)

« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2018, 13:38 »
+4
a good image is not a good image if its keyworded incorrectly ;-)

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2018, 14:25 »
+2

Describe only what is in the image not what is imagined by you ~ its just spamming

I love this justification "flowers" they are there, you can not see them because of image resolution..." ~ good grief what nonsense

Imagining that something will get a sale for the 43 keywords that are not searched, or something that's not in the image is also nonsense. What buyer wants an image of something that's not there?  :o

I think that some people, since the beginning of microstock, are convinced that they can sell images, based on just being seem. Like putting apple for a photo of a tomato in case the buyer likes the image and decides to download it. No really! People have said just that. Someone tell me, if you are searching for a photo of an apple, don't you search for apple? Not tomato, because you might randomly see something so attractive, you just can't resist downloading a file you don't want or don't need?  ;D


« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2018, 14:39 »
0

Describe only what is in the image not what is imagined by you ~ its just spamming

I love this justification "flowers" they are there, you can not see them because of image resolution..." ~ good grief what nonsense

Imagining that something will get a sale for the 43 keywords that are not searched, or something that's not in the image is also nonsense. What buyer wants an image of something that's not there?  :o

I think that some people, since the beginning of microstock, are convinced that they can sell images, based on just being seem. Like putting apple for a photo of a tomato in case the buyer likes the image and decides to download it. No really! People have said just that. Someone tell me, if you are searching for a photo of an apple, don't you search for apple? Not tomato, because you might randomly see something so attractive, you just can't resist downloading a file you don't want or don't need?  ;D

Lol I'm gonna take a POV shot of my shoes and tag it 'aerial', I'm sure it will sell, they're very nice shoes.

« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2018, 14:52 »
+1
I was responding to this

"everytime buyers search for images and come up with irrelevant results your images get marked down as less relevant" - sorry, do you have an evidence of such thing???"

It is safe to assume that if an image appears in a certain search result, is seen by the customer and not purchased that the image drops lower in the search results. It is best to only add keywords that are relevant to the image. Irrelevant keywords may be considered spam and have a negative effect on both the potential of success for your file and on the customer experience.

-Mat

...Thanks Mat for jumping into this discussion; only you can clarify things which are in mind of AS contributors... :) However, even good assumptions do not build strong bridges.. :) I still have a few unclear for me points:

1) Does AS algorithm really punish ("drops lower in the search results") good images because they were viewed but not purchased??? :) Do you know that any buyer (!!!) before buying an image selects 10 best ones, carefully looks at them, then selects 3 from 10, and then goes to sleep, next morning, he/she has to do a hard task, to select 1 from 3 and buy it... Though, in other words, AS assigns less weights to those poor 9 images, because they were viewed but not purchased? Do I understand it correctly?

2) What does it have to do with bad, spam, fishing keywording? You name it... Because, if a buyer is looking for an apple, but a page with 100 results shows him/her 1 peach, in 99% the buyer even will not look at it, no clicks, no views, you have no data to work with, and the algorithm has no idea, why peach was not viewed, is that because bad keywords, or because some other 100+ parameters: colors, background, composition, crop... :) In other words, it is extremely difficult task to look into "black matter" of buyers mentality and predict their behavior... :)

3) I think the best way, and, probably, the only way, to fight spammers and fishers is to use an image recognition system, an AI (there are a lot of them already in the market), and delete the most irrelevant keywords at the stage of submitting your content... SS is already doing this... I think AS is already using a kind of this artificial intelligence (AI) software, because it can recognize duplicates or very similar content in your portfolio and reject them for submission... :) The same should be done for keywords!!! :)

1) I personally purchase photos and videos regularly for video editing purpose for my clients, and I don't have the luxury to go to sleep and select what I want the next day or the day after... because deadline. Usually if I see something I like in the first pages, I just buy it and get on with my work. Sometimes I might need approval for specific projects so I'll copy the links and send them to the client so he can choose the ones he likes best, but definitely I'm not going to pick something because it's pretty and not relevant.

2) View means appear in search results. So your 'peach' will go down in ranking if it keeps appearing for 'apple' search in the search results but that is not the only factor taken in consideration in the algorithm, that would be too easy to cheat the system, it's a mix of sales, clicks and views, among many other things.

3) I wouldn't trust AI softwares at this point, it's not accurate enough and can't always recognise properly what's in the image let alone video.

Neurobite

« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2018, 15:30 »
0
I was responding to this

"everytime buyers search for images and come up with irrelevant results your images get marked down as less relevant" - sorry, do you have an evidence of such thing???"

It is safe to assume that if an image appears in a certain search result, is seen by the customer and not purchased that the image drops lower in the search results. It is best to only add keywords that are relevant to the image. Irrelevant keywords may be considered spam and have a negative effect on both the potential of success for your file and on the customer experience.

-Mat

...Thanks Mat for jumping into this discussion; only you can clarify things which are in mind of AS contributors... :) However, even good assumptions do not build strong bridges.. :) I still have a few unclear for me points:

1) Does AS algorithm really punish ("drops lower in the search results") good images because they were viewed but not purchased??? :) Do you know that any buyer (!!!) before buying an image selects 10 best ones, carefully looks at them, then selects 3 from 10, and then goes to sleep, next morning, he/she has to do a hard task, to select 1 from 3 and buy it... Though, in other words, AS assigns less weights to those poor 9 images, because they were viewed but not purchased? Do I understand it correctly?

2) What does it have to do with bad, spam, fishing keywording? You name it... Because, if a buyer is looking for an apple, but a page with 100 results shows him/her 1 peach, in 99% the buyer even will not look at it, no clicks, no views, you have no data to work with, and the algorithm has no idea, why peach was not viewed, is that because bad keywords, or because some other 100+ parameters: colors, background, composition, crop... :) In other words, it is extremely difficult task to look into "black matter" of buyers mentality and predict their behavior... :)

3) I think the best way, and, probably, the only way, to fight spammers and fishers is to use an image recognition system, an AI (there are a lot of them already in the market), and delete the most irrelevant keywords at the stage of submitting your content... SS is already doing this... I think AS is already using a kind of this artificial intelligence (AI) software, because it can recognize duplicates or very similar content in your portfolio and reject them for submission... :) The same should be done for keywords!!! :)

1) I personally purchase photos and videos regularly for video editing purpose for my clients, and I don't have the luxury to go to sleep and select what I want the next day or the day after... because deadline. Usually if I see something I like in the first pages, I just buy it and get on with my work. Sometimes I might need approval for specific projects so I'll copy the links and send them to the client so he can choose the ones he likes best, but definitely I'm not going to pick something because it's pretty and not relevant.

2) View means appear in search results. So your 'peach' will go down in ranking if it keeps appearing for 'apple' search in the search results but that is not the only factor taken in consideration in the algorithm, that would be too easy to cheat the system, it's a mix of sales, clicks and views, among many other things.

3) I wouldn't trust AI softwares at this point, it's not accurate enough and can't always recognise properly what's in the image let alone video.

...yes, that's what I meant, between searching, selection and purchasing there are many things happening, some go to sleep, some show content to clients or project leaders, some buy instantly cause they have money, so they buy whatever they like for their own database for 100+ projects in mind... :) However, what I wanted to stress here is that buyers do not buy content based on how well keywords match to their search strategy/expectations... they buy on basis of the particular image likeness, attractiveness, technical and aesthetic quality, and how well it fits to the project...

...your second point I did not get: how on earth algorithm knows that there is a peach actually in the image but not an apple and it should not be in the search results? The peach with "apple" in keywords will be shown in the "apple" search results, but machine thinks it is an apple .. and there will be 10000+ more unseen, unviewed unclicked truly apples, by your hypothesis, they should be all punished, because they were in search results but not viewed... unless there is image recognition which will tell the script the peach is not matching to the apple, let's punish only the peach... Do you understand what I mean?

...well, if you never tried Google image/place recognition service, I suggest to try it, you will be astonished how accurate it is... :)


« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2018, 15:48 »
0
I was responding to this

"everytime buyers search for images and come up with irrelevant results your images get marked down as less relevant" - sorry, do you have an evidence of such thing???"

It is safe to assume that if an image appears in a certain search result, is seen by the customer and not purchased that the image drops lower in the search results. It is best to only add keywords that are relevant to the image. Irrelevant keywords may be considered spam and have a negative effect on both the potential of success for your file and on the customer experience.

-Mat

...Thanks Mat for jumping into this discussion; only you can clarify things which are in mind of AS contributors... :) However, even good assumptions do not build strong bridges.. :) I still have a few unclear for me points:

1) Does AS algorithm really punish ("drops lower in the search results") good images because they were viewed but not purchased??? :) Do you know that any buyer (!!!) before buying an image selects 10 best ones, carefully looks at them, then selects 3 from 10, and then goes to sleep, next morning, he/she has to do a hard task, to select 1 from 3 and buy it... Though, in other words, AS assigns less weights to those poor 9 images, because they were viewed but not purchased? Do I understand it correctly?

2) What does it have to do with bad, spam, fishing keywording? You name it... Because, if a buyer is looking for an apple, but a page with 100 results shows him/her 1 peach, in 99% the buyer even will not look at it, no clicks, no views, you have no data to work with, and the algorithm has no idea, why peach was not viewed, is that because bad keywords, or because some other 100+ parameters: colors, background, composition, crop... :) In other words, it is extremely difficult task to look into "black matter" of buyers mentality and predict their behavior... :)

3) I think the best way, and, probably, the only way, to fight spammers and fishers is to use an image recognition system, an AI (there are a lot of them already in the market), and delete the most irrelevant keywords at the stage of submitting your content... SS is already doing this... I think AS is already using a kind of this artificial intelligence (AI) software, because it can recognize duplicates or very similar content in your portfolio and reject them for submission... :) The same should be done for keywords!!! :)

1) I personally purchase photos and videos regularly for video editing purpose for my clients, and I don't have the luxury to go to sleep and select what I want the next day or the day after... because deadline. Usually if I see something I like in the first pages, I just buy it and get on with my work. Sometimes I might need approval for specific projects so I'll copy the links and send them to the client so he can choose the ones he likes best, but definitely I'm not going to pick something because it's pretty and not relevant.

2) View means appear in search results. So your 'peach' will go down in ranking if it keeps appearing for 'apple' search in the search results but that is not the only factor taken in consideration in the algorithm, that would be too easy to cheat the system, it's a mix of sales, clicks and views, among many other things.

3) I wouldn't trust AI softwares at this point, it's not accurate enough and can't always recognise properly what's in the image let alone video.

...yes, that's what I meant, between searching, selection and purchasing there are many things happening, some go to sleep, some show content to clients or project leaders, some buy instantly cause they have money, so they buy whatever they like for their own database for 100+ projects in mind... :) However, what I wanted to stress here is that buyers do not buy content based on how well keywords match to their search strategy/expectations... they buy on basis of the particular image likeness, attractiveness, technical and aesthetic quality, and how well it fits to the project...

...your second point I did not get: how on earth algorithm knows that there is a peach actually in the image but not an apple and it should not be in the search results? The peach with "apple" in keywords will be shown in the "apple" search results, but machine thinks it is an apple .. and there will be 10000+ more unseen, unviewed unclicked truly apples, by your hypothesis, they should be all punished, because they were in search results but not viewed... unless there is image recognition which will tell the script the peach is not matching to the apple, let's punish only the peach... Do you understand what I mean?

...well, if you never tried Google image/place recognition service, I suggest to try it, you will be astonished how accurate it is... :)

Let's say if 100 people search for 'apple' and nobody clicks on or buys your 'peach' image, your image becomes irrelevant, and goes down in ranking. All the other images of apples in the same situation will also be 'punished' if you want to call it that - they are not relevant in the sense that nobody wants them, so they will also go down in rankings.

Back to your Waterfall image for instance, every time someone looks for actual photos of Sea or Flowers as the main subject, and scroll past your photo without clicking on it or buying it, your photo will go down in ranking. So it's a gamble, you might attract a random buyer who's in love with your photo while they were actually looking for something else, but in the meantime, every time someone isn't in love with it, your photo will go down.. until it's buried under photos of other contributors. Is it worth the risk?


 

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