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Author Topic: Fotolia D-Day (Deactivation Day) - May,1  (Read 118651 times)

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« Reply #250 on: April 29, 2014, 15:56 »
+15
^^^ Shut up about Symbiostock. Keep this on topic. Fotolia and the DPC.


« Reply #251 on: April 29, 2014, 16:03 »
+5
^^^ Shut up about Symbiostock. Keep this on topic. Fotolia and the DPC.

+1 Agreed, I just didn't want the high traffic of this thread taking that opinion to heart.

As far as Fotolia, I'm thinking my portfolio will be gone May 1 anyway ;)

« Reply #252 on: April 29, 2014, 16:09 »
+12
I've said this before, but I think FT is a sinking ship and DPC is one strategy they hope to use to patch the holes/s. 

1. DPC is not "for a special/select group" - anyone can sign up.
2. The purpose of DPC is NOT to serve an unserviced market segment. They can spin it however they want, but DPC is ONLY to expose a cheap visual asset outlet: SUBS. Shutterstock is known as a successful sub site, but Istock/Getty wasn't so IS had to do something to gain share (probably gain back share they lost to SS). So what did Istock/Getty do? They created a separate SUB entity called Thinkstock in an attempt to steal share from SS. And this is exactly the reason FT created DPC.  They tried to differentiate themselves by offering all those licensing features (unlimited print runs, no expiration, etc) but the reality is that these are very weak hooks.  The biggest hook is that those images cost $1.....ANY SIZE, Vector or Photo. That single differentiator is the kiss of death for the FT contributor and simply adds grease to an already slippery micro stock hill to the bottom. I condone Mat for coming in here to defend FT, but he (FT) really doesn't have a good argument as it relates to contributors' financial health.  I've said it earlier in this thread.....If DPC is successful it is successful ONLY for FT, not the contributor.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 16:22 by Mantis »

« Reply #253 on: April 29, 2014, 16:13 »
+9
Just got a message from Andresr. He's in!

From Boycotfotolia.org:

28-04-2014 17:13:50 Name: Andresr
Will remove 34000 out of 34000 works on the 1st May.
Comment: The dollar photoclub is the worst thing that has happened to us, its time all these taking advantage of photographers stops.


Looks like Andres' images are no longer available on DPC. Result.

« Reply #254 on: April 29, 2014, 16:14 »
+7
I recevied many requests to implement some improvements to the StockSubmitter's tool that helps with removing images from portfolio on Fotolia:
- option to skip videos and let them stay in the portfolio (since DPC does not contain videos)
- option to remove oldest and newest images first (for those who are going to remove only part of portfolio yet)

These options are now implemented. Hope it will help those who signed the petition and going to remove some of their images at 1st May.

MxR

« Reply #255 on: April 29, 2014, 16:21 »
-1
Shutter has two options to combat DPC:

announce exclusivity I'd see no wrong. (mass exodus)
Create crap like the dollar photo club ... by Bigstock

« Reply #256 on: April 29, 2014, 16:22 »
+2
I've said this before, but I think FT is a sinking ship and DPC is one strategy they hope to use to patch the holes/s. 

1. DPC is not "for a special/select group" - anyone can sign up.
2. The purpose of DPC is NOT to serve an unserviced market segment. They can spin it however they want, but DPC is ONLY to expose a cheap visual asset outlet: SUBS. Shutterstock is known as a successful sub site, but Istock/Getty wasn't so IS had to do something to gain share (probably gain back share they lost to SS). So what did Istock/Getty do? They created Thinkstock in an attempt to steal share from SS. And this is exactly the reason FT created DPC.  They tried to differentiate themselves by offering all those licensing features (unlimited print runs, no expiration, etc) but the reality is that these are very weak hooks.  The biggest hook is that those images cost $1.....ANY SIZE, Vector or Photo. That single differentiator is the kiss of death for the FT contributor and simply adds grease to an already slippery micro stock hill to the bottom. I condone Mat for coming in here to defend FT, but he (FT) really doesn't have a good argument as it relates to contributors' financial health.  I've said it earlier in this thread.....If DPC is successful it is successful ONLY for FT, not the contributor.

I think you must be right because the DPC will also destroy FT's own original business model. That's an incredibly risky strategy ... unless the original model really isn't working.

If FT are struggling to build their current business at selling images say an average of $3 then they are going to need some serious volume to make it work at $1.

« Reply #257 on: April 29, 2014, 16:22 »
0
announce exclusivity I'd see no wrong. (mass exodus)

Thats my first idea, too and i think this is the next big step.

« Reply #258 on: April 29, 2014, 16:32 »
+1
deleted

U11


« Reply #259 on: April 29, 2014, 16:38 »
+3
announce exclusivity I'd see no wrong. (mass exodus)

Thats my first idea, too and i think this is the next big step.
exclusivity is a way to stagnation

« Reply #260 on: April 29, 2014, 16:40 »
+20
Hi all!
Here's my translated text, which i posted on Russian microstock forum and livejournal.

Please, read it carefully. Also some conditions was changed from Fotolia side, but 99% of my post are very actual for you all!

---------------- START --------------------------------

So guys, it's time to give a personal comment.

DISCLAIMER 1: Let me make it clear. All this text is point of view of only one person and shouldn't be considered as any different person position except mine. This personal opinion may not match the position of boycottfotolia.org.

There will be a lot of text, but I want to describe the situation in the most convenient way, the way that even people who never heard about DPC can easily form a clear judjement about this project and about people, who made it. I also want to show some examples, where DPC promotion leads.

Considering Oleg Tscheltzoff's position shown in already published correspondence, I have to say:

DISCLAIMER 2: All my participation in boycottfotolia.org project, including creating and maintaining a website, and also writing of the original version of the petition is voluntary and gratuitous. I'm not a microstocker. I'm independent of microstock business and I'm not affiliated with any photobank, microstock or any other organization that competes with fotolia.com or represents the interests of of third-parties competing with fotolia.com. I don't receive any material or other benefits in any form from this project or its participants and any third-party organizations. In my work I represent the interests of my friends microstockers and all these people, who cast their votes in support of petition.

Let's see how it started.

The dollarphotoclub.com project (hereinafter referred to DPC) was launched in January this year. Well, but so what? Just a project that has been declared as new Fotolia's partner. But after that an interview with Fotolia's co-founder Oleg Tscheltzoff was published: Russian news site

So, let's make it clear what kind of thoughts could be learned from this interview by common reader? I'll provide some excerpts from the article with my comments:

1. "This service designed for professionals who are constantly in need of images, for those who are engaged in the design personally or works in the agency."

So that is, Oleg imagines the audience of the project as already established market created by his and other microstock agencies. He is definitely not talking about all this "new infusions from the side". Professional designers and agencies already have a corporate subscription plans from Fotolia or other microstock agencies. And given the need for images, even semi-professional studio consumes a lot of pictures and subscription plan is more profitable than being a "club member".

2. "We launched a pilot version of the project in the United States three months ago. I participated in the launch of more than 50 start-ups and to be honest, I've never seen such growth: after the first quarter, we already had a multimillion business, although we have only begun to advertise."

It should be noted that part of this multimillion business is contributors' direct losses on other microstock agencies and Fotolia itself (Suddenly, right? I'll explain later.) So what will happen with the project becoming fully operational as inherent in their business plan?

3. "Members who, for example, previously shopped at Shutterstock, write us about it."

Just as required, people ran for a freebie, and you all have lost part of your extended and on demand sales.

4. "The site itself cost us a small amount of money. It's about a few hundred thousand dollars. But we plan to invest a lot of money in advertising."

5. "Since we've done 18-month turnover in three months, I'm also thinking about advertising im mass media."

It's all at your expense, dear contributors.

6.
"- What audience do you expect in Russia, at least for the first year?
- I think if we have 20-30 thousand members by the end of the year, it will be a good result. And if we grow up to 20% market share next year, it will also be good. I see no problem if it doesn't happen, because we have the biggest accessible and legal database of photos, and it is also the cheapest on the market today."

That means Oleg expects minimum monthly payments of $200.000-300.000 for the smallest subscription or 20% of market share, which is actually more. It reduces the entry price (I will explain below how).

7.
"- Price is really important advantage. What do you think, will competitors follow your lead?
- It won't be easy for them, we have great opportunities for maneuver. Shutterstock is a public company, which should show higher profits to shareholders, they can't cut prices either. iStock has a lot of debt. They took a bank loan, which must be paid, so their hands are tied. Smaller companies don't have the opportunity to compete with us."

And, unfortunately, it's the bitter truth. Promotion of DPC will lead to dire consequences for the whole market.

Interview received a huge amount of negative comments and provoked a strong wave of discussions on the forums. People began to demand from the support to remove their content from DPS, but they received only formal reply that the only way to remove content from DPC is removing it from Fotolia.
This caused even more stormy wave of perturbations and one forum user known as frbird decided to move forward and I helped him by creating our common boycottfotolia.org site. I'm also grateful to all of you who supported us and helped with translations. Without you guys none of this would have happened and community would have continued to be silent about all that crap Fotolia literally feeding us.
By that moment Fotolia closed topic related to DPC on its own official forum. At the moment of this publication (April 27, 16:00 GMT) Fotolia still haven't sent some official representative to
community forums (except copy-paste bot) and they haven't made any public announcements regarding DPC. And this happens despite the fact that all your images were moved to DPC without any notice and without the possibility of quick and convenient refusal (as of this writing).

One day passed and realizing that something goes wrong, Fotolia started to send to angry microstockers emails inviting to contact Fotolia's representative in Russia. After that, when finally crap hits the fan, letters have changed dramatically.

So what exactly are the DPC:
1. DPC position itself as CLOSED club (according to Fotolia's representatives, but also was refuted by several people after test purchases), when Fotolia selects the major market players and examines each application for membership. But there are two tariffs on acquisition page: 10 USD/month with allegedly consideration (disproved) and 99 USD/month for INSTANT membership without consideration.
2. DPC license differs from Fotolia's one. So Fotolia's Standard License has limitation of copying for 500 000 pcs. For DPC it's UNLIMITED. Moreover, the main page, which says "Unlimited edition - Unlimited Use" misleading bona fide purchaser. Do you really think he's going to read license terms about prohibited printing and reselling? REMARK: Maybe I could have won the court case, if I print a photo on a mug, because of misrepresentation of this "Unlimited Use" advertising.
3. Unused part of subscription plan is TRANSFERRING to the next month. I'll explain this highlighting below.

And now attention!
This is the most crucial and important part of my treatment. To those who still thinking about cooperation with the DPC and Fotolia in particular.
Just maths, just hardcore!

Let's try to find out if DPC is really so beneficial for contributors.
An experiment.
I made two cases and four spreadsheets

FIRST CASE
We assume that some design studio or agency monthly needs 1, 5, 10, 50, 100, 250, 500, 750 (And only so much! Nothing more or less!) images of M and XXL size. I did it for you to assess the extent of the changes. Also assume that all of you have "Gold" status. It could be "White", but "Gold" is better for averaging and non-exclusive prices. Here we go!

Explanation to the spreadsheets:
"Contributor Estimated Income (CEI)" is calculated under the condition that the buyer didn't download more than previously described number of images.
"Buyer Entry Price" is amount that buyer must pay to join Fotolia and download images, which that would be also obtained by photostock.
"Club Benefit Indicator": positive amount if the buyer saves and negative if he loses.

Table 1. Size M. Price of demand in points for "Gold" is 6 (31%). Price of subscription in points for "Gold" is 0.31.



Table 1. Size XXL. Price of demand in points for "Gold" is 12 (31%). Price of subscription in points for "Gold" is 0.31.



Here is a summary.

1. What we see:
Contributor Estimated Income is a value which shows exactly how much you will get from the specified value of the downloaded images theoretically. In fact this is how much you will get from subscription as with DPC, and without it. As you can see, CEI is the same everywhere except of situations with demand and size M. So in fact, participation in DPC robs you of even such a * demand! Essentially, it's more beneficial than any demand, since the minimum recharge amount on points is 14 USD.
Now you can forget about demands on Fotolia. You can also forget about any other microstock agencies' demands. Just think of how much it costs a minimum "on demand" package on any other microstock agency which you use. Draw an analogy. They are gone. At all. Once clients of other microstocks will learn about DPC.

2. Buyer Entry Price is a buyer paid price to enjoy pictures. As you can see, with a minimum of 14 USD it dropped down to 10 USD and remains there up to 25 USD point. Now ask yourself, if you have a sales? Do you have a sales at all, for God's sake??? So where . did they come? Yep, right, it's because the buyer has paid the price for entrance to download your pictures. And besides other microstock agencies' price is HIGHER. But people pay! And they are your customers.
Do you think these people want to pay 25 USD for 10 pictures in M or 40 USD for XXL, when DPC entry price is 10 USD? Just think about it, these people were paying 25 USD and 40 USD before. There is no new market. Here is just a huge DUMPING. DPC will entice those who already purchasing pictures for more money in other microstock agencies, so you will lose your demands EVERYWHERE. Not right now. Not in a week. Just wait until DPC becomes famous. If you could get at other microstock agencies some HUGE wad of money, or fat wad, or even tiny one for demand before, so after that you have to be satisfied with your "Gold" 0.31 USD on DPC. I don't even want to comment "White"/"Bronze" levels. By the way, forget about all the extended licenses that are bought for large circulation, too.

3.Club Benefit Indicator.As we see here, DPC is advantageous for size M up to 50 images/month and up to 100 images/month for XXL. Are they those "major buyers", which Tscheltzoff talk about? Are they not-for-everybody (oh, really?) private club members who buy up 100 images monthly in their own elite way? DPC becomes equivalent/unfavorable to buyers since 100 M and 250 XXL pics. If people want to buy more, they'll pay more than the standard Fotolia's license.

After that, do not forget, that DPC subsciption are transferring between months. Tscheltzoff skillfully presses on mentality. If I want 5 pictures, another 5 will stay. So I'd rather prolong my subscription, let it be 15 next month. He wants to get a stable flow of monthly low/mid subscriptions this way, which will be prolongated. But it's not a fact that people will "spend" these pictures. Somebody can pay 10 bucks to Tscheltzoff, but you won't get anything from it. Maybe it will accumulate by the end of the year.

Do you realize now that any bulk purchases out of the question? Tscheltzoff wants to entice mid/low budget buyers. Large agencies sitting on subscriptions will not change partners to disreputable microstock. Especially because in the actual large scale all the prices almost the same on the market.

Latest news promise to give us the ability to disable DPC. Some people on forums are screaming "thank you" and your morale partially decreased. I have no right to ask you for something. Neither moral nor of any other. I understand that. Really. You have a family, kids. Pictures on Fotolia sell well and you don't want to lose some revenue. But I ask you. Just ask not to pick up a bone, thrown by Tscheltzoff. I expected this and it was the worst scenario. Now you are at the mercy of doubt. There shouldn't be a doubt. Only two options: either fulfillment of the petition requirements or deletion of portfolios. I will not change the text of the petition. I wrote it myself, then all of you have corrected it. Please don't think that I put myself above others. I'm not. frbird kicked this idea, it's only to his credits. All who help us, who translate, communicate, repost, post, phoning microstocker friends did a good job. But like everyone else, I have the right to vote on an EQUAL basis with all of you.

Now to the movers and shakers who feels good and comfortable and those people who don't believe in this initiative, who's laughing at us. I'll show you an example, more close to reality, how you'll crap your pants with the introduction of DPC not only for low/mid market share, but also on bulk downloads.

SECOND CASE

Previous case successfully showed us that theoretically DPC ALREADY pulls ALL low/mid buyers to Fotolia, which brings loss to On Demand and Extended sales (in terms of the number of copies) on other microstocks. Now let's imagine that buyers don't want to lose unused subscription pictures and they're pumping out entire subscription to the last penny. Agree that it's a much more real case. Two spreadsheets again. But I introduced some additional points for ease of understanding.

Table 3. Size M. Price of demand in points for "Gold" is 6 (31%). Price of subscription in points for "Gold" is 0.31.



Table 4. Size XXL. Price of demand in points for "Gold" is 12 (31%). Price of subscription in points for "Gold" is 0.31.



And what do we see here? Due to the fact that you have lost all other microstocks' demands, position UP TO 10 images is slightly more profitable than Fotolia and also equivalent to other microstocks (don't forget that one On Demand sale can be as big as CEI for 10 images).

But since 51 pictures (in fact 11, but I'm just already angry and tired, I don't like to write all the numbers) becomes much more interesting. First of all, pay attention to the CEI, as well as on the microstock income flow. Let me remind you that CEI is a money, which drips into your pocket, and microstock income flow is how much microstock received from all of this.
Draw conclusions from Table 3: from 51 to 100 images CEI grows from +0.31 USD up to +15.5 USD. For the insanely gifted I'll explain: EACH downloaded "FOR THE FUTUTRE" image brings to our pocket ADDITIONAL 0.31 USD in case of old Fotolia's subscription, but not DPC.
100 pictures is a turning point.
After 101st picture because of the need to take a "25 a day" subscription plan CEI increases from 0.31 USD up to 201 USD (for 750 pictures).
AGAIN. In case when number of images exceeds 100 and buyer purchases from 1 to 649 images more by standard SUBSCRIPTION plan for the future use, your wallets are replenished for the total amount from 0.31 to 201 (!) bucks. In contrast to the DPC, where people have to pay for each additional picture and think a hundred times to download something useful but not for right now.
Now pay attention to the income flow of the microstock agency. As you can see, starting with the 101st picture standard subscriptions become extremely disadvantageous to them. While DPC brings a stable 0.69 USD multiplied by the number of images in case of paying to "Gold" mickrostocker. Figuratively speaking, Fotolia's income from DPC starting from 1st picture increases linearly, and this fact allows them not to think about buyer to choose all the pictures of subscription plan or not. This kills the second rabbit: Fotolia will try to entice high-budget buyers to DPC, to pay you less.
Now take a calculator and count CEI numbers for 125 or 200. Come on. Done? Do you realize now how much much weight will lose your asses, even if you are Fotolia supporter because it gives you a lot of money? So finally tear it off the chair! What is happening is a global price collapse for your work. Buyers can be enticed by low prices in one month. But it takes years to explain why he have to pay more for your work and success isn't guaranteed.
I really wanted to write a lot more: about trade union, global perspectives and unprofitableness of subscriptions for all microstocks... No way. I tortured this text in 9 hours. Are you be able to understand it? Excellent. Not? So what trade unions we're talking about? It's a turning point. All microstock market waiting for our reaction. If we don't win the dragon, wait for the dragons from the other side. I'm just sad that we can squander everything achieved these days because of pathetic sop.
Don't be fooled. All business is about doing profit for owner.
Sorry for my harsh tone sometimes.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 16:59 by fotoramka »

« Reply #261 on: April 29, 2014, 16:43 »
+1
+1
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 17:17 by bolsher »

« Reply #262 on: April 29, 2014, 16:59 »
+7
SS gas said repeatedly that they have no interest in exclusivity. Not sure why a failing agency's dumb program would change their mind

« Reply #263 on: April 29, 2014, 17:20 »
+5
Well, sign me up for D-day! Fotolia hasn't been relevant for me for the past 3 years anyways. No big loss.

Dook

« Reply #264 on: April 29, 2014, 17:25 »
0
SS should introduce exclusivity immediately and solve the problem.

« Reply #265 on: April 29, 2014, 17:26 »
0
@ fotoramka: Some of the receivables are satisfies.

Some not, is there a way to mark the unfulfilled at the website? Some of the contributors think almost is ok now, so there were an actual status optimal.

« Reply #266 on: April 29, 2014, 17:36 »
0
@ fotoramka: Some of the receivables are satisfies.

Some not, is there a way to mark the unfulfilled at the website? Some of the contributors think almost is ok now, so there were an actual status optimal.

Off course. On May 1st, we'll write on our site - if fotolia fullfilled petition or not. You should unserstand that we CAN'T require people who signed for petition to do anything. It should be it's choice. Otherwise Fotolia can take legal actions against us.

« Reply #267 on: April 29, 2014, 17:45 »
+8
Thank you guys for your work! That was really great, big thank you to all of you.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #268 on: April 29, 2014, 17:52 »
+10
SS should introduce exclusivity immediately and solve the problem.
Be careful what you wish for.

« Reply #269 on: April 29, 2014, 17:56 »
+9
Well I've taken my 2800 images out of DPC. It seems pretty clear they are planning to destroy the entire market in order to grow their own revenue and they are making use of the fact that most of us have our images on all sites. I wondered why I only had 1 ED on Shutterstock this month - normally 3 - 8 each month. I think I may have the answer. I know it is statistically unreliable to reach a conclusion based on one month results, but this could be the start of a tsunami...

Steve

EmberMike

« Reply #270 on: April 29, 2014, 18:15 »
+22
Are you employed by Fotolia?

Yes, after volunteering as a moderator in the Fotolia forum for many years I made the decision to leave the restaurant business I had been in for more than 25 years and turn my focus to my true passion of photography.  The timing was fortuitous as an opening came available on the Customer Service team at Fotolia that I happily accepted this past September...

Thanks for the clarification, Mat. I hope you realize that this was misleading, though, by earlier emphasizing the point that you are a contributor but never mentioning that you are an employee as well.

I also hope you realize that misrepresenting yourself only adds to the mistrust we already feel towards many agencies these days. Since you are a contributor, you know as well as all of us that it isn't easy being in the microstock business, especially recently. Many companies look to exploit every angle and opportunity to get the most profit from our work while paying us the least amount possible.

So you coming in here acting like a regular joe, hawking the DPC product and expecting us to buy into it all while under the employ of the very company that sells the product is pretty shady.

Frankly, it doesn't speak well to what Fotolia is about today. We need more honesty in this business, not less. I'm opted out of DPC, not just because I think it's a bad deal for artists but also because I'm concerned about the direction Fotolia seems to be going in. If you are truly intent on doing a good job for Fotolia and representing the company here and as a customer service rep in a positive way, I hope we can expect to see some better contributor relations going forward. That needs to include some real transparency and disclosure.

« Reply #271 on: April 29, 2014, 18:17 »
+1
^^^ Shut up about Symbiostock. Keep this on topic. Fotolia and the DPC.

^^Totally agree.

On topic...glad you guys are seeing results by at least getting the opt out. The only way to stop them is to keep deactivating images.

fujiko

« Reply #272 on: April 29, 2014, 18:23 »
+10
Working in this position has allowed me the opportunity to see firsthand the passion and commitment the team at Fotolia has towards increasing business and revenue for all involved including photographers.
[...]
Dollar Photo Club is hitting a previously untapped market and is driving sales at  fast rate.

Lies and more lies.

It is not about untapped markets or increasing revenue of photographers it's about going to the depths of the lowest pits of cheap. The cheapest of cheapest.

It's not about untapped markets, it's about existing buyers and existing market.

According to Dollar Photo Club's CEO, Oleg Tscheltzoff. "Customers are tangled up in plans they don't need, use, or even understand. The majority of subscription deals end up being wasted."

We want to target big buyers, and provide them with exclusive offers, said co-founder and CEO Oleg Tscheltzoff

This pricing is very disruptive compared to everything else that exists, including Fotolia, Tscheltzoff said.

Untapped market? LIES!
The only reason is to be the cheapest because they don't care as long as the next bonus they get for screwing it is bigger!

« Reply #273 on: April 29, 2014, 18:29 »
+2
if they thought they were strong they'd tell contributors to stuff it

so true..

that sounds more like fotolia  :)

« Reply #274 on: April 29, 2014, 18:32 »
+11
I said earlier and I will repeat it now. Contributor's resistence is great, but we would need the help of the other agencies (which would protect themselves at the same time). SS, IS, DT etc should not accept images that are in DPC too. That really would decimate the DPC potential and database. It is legal and can be done, in a similar way as Amazon KDP is doing something similar from three years ago, a move that kept them afloat of their competitors.


 

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