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Author Topic: Fotolia is my best seller this month  (Read 10742 times)

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« on: July 21, 2014, 12:11 »
-2
Hi everybody,

This month in Fotolia if I compare proportional for the first 21 days the income is 20% more than my best month ever  ;)

But the most important thing I notice is that this month I have not rise of the subscription sales!


« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2014, 16:26 »
0
Hi everybody,

This month in Fotolia if I compare proportional for the first 21 days the income is 20% more than my best month ever  ;)

But the most important thing I notice is that this month I have not rise of the subscription sales!

Are you selling your images through the Dollar Photo Club?

« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2014, 16:30 »
+19
Yes he is. 7000+ images - So Sad.

« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2014, 00:51 »
-9
Hi everybody,

This month in Fotolia if I compare proportional for the first 21 days the income is 20% more than my best month ever  ;)

But the most important thing I notice is that this month I have not rise of the subscription sales!

Are you selling your images through the Dollar Photo Club?

I sell in DPC, but the rise is not from there as the subscription sales are not more then before DPC exist. I mean the sales as the number of sales, because now we have very good subscription sales in Fotolia as price. I think that about DPC we can draw conclusions for at least one year not now.

« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2014, 01:00 »
-9
Yes he is. 7000+ images - So Sad.

This what today looks "So Sad" after a year can be something different. I've shared this sales growth, not to discuss DPC, because I really think it's too early not defend it nor reject it.

« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2014, 01:48 »
+5
Deyan - Can you tell us if the increase in FT has come at the cost of other agencies ? Do you see any decrease in sales in other agencies ?

You have mentioned that there have been no increase in the subscription sales. Do you know (if that is even possible to know) whether the subscriptions are more from FT or DPC ?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2014, 02:08 »
0
Deyan - Can you tell us if the increase in FT has come at the cost of other agencies ? Do you see any decrease in sales in other agencies ?

You have mentioned that there have been no increase in the subscription sales. Do you know (if that is even possible to know) whether the subscriptions are more from FT or DPC ?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

It is too short period of time to draw comparison whether there is a connection and whether this growth is at the cost of other agencies. Moreover, if we talk about sales decline of Single&Other in Shutterstock I can say yes this month they are rather weak, but this type of sales are accidental and can not be createria to conclusions(for example in the past year I have two months with the same drop without the presence of DPC)

About the subscriptions I have no idea what part of them are from DPC.



« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2014, 02:14 »
+5
I think FT has changed their search a bit. I too can see an increase in sales (though my numbers are too low to be statistically relevant), and I am opted out of DPC.

« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2014, 02:24 »
+5
fotolia is up for me as well this month and I am opted out of dpc. Maybe they have increased their marketing to prove they can still grow fotolia as well. Or maybe I am just lucky this month.

« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2014, 02:35 »
+1
Deyan - Can you tell us if the increase in FT has come at the cost of other agencies ? Do you see any decrease in sales in other agencies ?

You have mentioned that there have been no increase in the subscription sales. Do you know (if that is even possible to know) whether the subscriptions are more from FT or DPC ?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

It is too short period of time to draw comparison whether there is a connection and whether this growth is at the cost of other agencies. Moreover, if we talk about sales decline of Single&Other in Shutterstock I can say yes this month they are rather weak, but this type of sales are accidental and can not be createria to conclusions(for example in the past year I have two months with the same drop without the presence of DPC)

About the subscriptions I have no idea what part of them are from DPC.

Thanks Deyan !

« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2014, 03:39 »
+9
I sell in DPC, but the rise is not from there...
Why do you support fotolia DPC?
Why did not you remove your 7000+ images from DPC?

« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2014, 05:03 »
-5
I sell in DPC, but the rise is not from there...
Why do you support fotolia DPC?
Why did not you remove your 7000+ images from DPC?

It is difficult to answer short and more with my not good english.

First I will not defend DPC, because generally looking it is bad for us to sell pictures at a low price. And as now have the button to opt out I can do it at every time. By the moment I'm not sure about the influence of DPC on the market and when I'm not sure I do not make any decision. If opt out I will loose money for sure, if not I'm not sure if I will get more sales on the other sites to compensate this.

The future will show us a lot about this :)

P.S. We are small boats in the microstock ocean and The Search of each agency is the wind that drives our boat to the our client! One day when someone become a big ship, then will not be necessary to rely only on the Search wind just because he is big and the client can see him from very far away. It will even not be necessary to float so much, but the client will go to him. :)

So, I do the thing in a manner which is right at the moment.

Beppe Grillo

« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2014, 05:08 »
+2
Yes he is. 7000+ images - So Sad.

So sad to see that not everybody agree to let the others make their own choices
Yes, this is really so sad

« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2014, 05:18 »
+1
Yes he is. 7000+ images - So Sad.

So sad to see that not everybody agree to let the others make their own choices
Yes, this is really so sad

This can be true if we know how much are "the others". As I said there are a lot of information we need.

« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2014, 05:31 »
+14
Deyan, it's hard to see how DPC can be good for contributors in the short or long term. By leaving your files at DPC you are effectively telling Fotolia that you are OK with the direction they are taking the industry. If you removed your files you would be offering solidarity with contributors and sending a clear message to DPC.

If we little boats gather together on the ocean and utilise only the wind of the supportive agencies then we'll likely have a sustainable industry for longer...

« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2014, 05:43 »
+3
Yes he is. 7000+ images - So Sad.

So sad to see that not everybody agree to let the others make their own choices
Yes, this is really so sad

He has made his choice nobody forced him to leave DPC or stay in it


« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2014, 06:36 »
+5
Fotolia is up for me as well. I too am opted out of DPC.

« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2014, 06:43 »
+7
Deyan, it's hard to see how DPC can be good for contributors in the short or long term. By leaving your files at DPC you are effectively telling Fotolia that you are OK with the direction they are taking the industry. If you removed your files you would be offering solidarity with contributors and sending a clear message to DPC.

If we little boats gather together on the ocean and utilise only the wind of the supportive agencies then we'll likely have a sustainable industry for longer...
If the top 1% contributors got together in the decision making, the balance agency/contributor would be much more favorable to us. I hope the Fotolia D-day is the start of something bigger, but again it will only work properly if the top contributors are in as they hold the vast majority of the collection.

« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2014, 06:49 »
+4
Fotolia is well up for me this month too. I'm opted out of DPC. I expected to be penalised but that doesn't seem to have happened..

« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2014, 07:23 »
+9
Hi everybody,

This month in Fotolia if I compare proportional for the first 21 days the income is 20% more than my best month ever  ;)

But the most important thing I notice is that this month I have not rise of the subscription sales!

Are you selling your images through the Dollar Photo Club?

I sell in DPC, but the rise is not from there as the subscription sales are not more then before DPC exist. I mean the sales as the number of sales, because now we have very good subscription sales in Fotolia as price. I think that about DPC we can draw conclusions for at least one year not now.

You can draw conclusions immediately by the $1 pricing. DPC is a poison to micro stock for this very reason. They lie to contributors by calling DPC subscriptions when it is in fact a credit purchase model, yet they pay sub royalties.  What other FACTS do you need to convince you that this is a very bad deal? With the size of your port, you fit a perfect profile for the kind of contributor we need to stand up to those greedy bullies at Fotolia. It's up to you, of course, what you ultimately do, I just thought it was important to post some facts that dispel the "waiting period" argument.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 07:27 by Mantis »

« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2014, 08:23 »
-5
The purpose of my post was not to discuss DPC, because of this will stop. Am sorry, but it is really difficult to me to explane how I see this situation. May be a little bit later...

Let's focus our energy to create high value images which will not sell for $1. There are a lot of places to sell images for good money.

« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2014, 09:25 »
+16
Yes he is. 7000+ images - So Sad.

So sad to see that not everybody agree to let the others make their own choices
Yes, this is really so sad

True. Nobody can make decisions for others. At the same time, the decisions other contributors make affect everyone.

« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2014, 10:23 »
0
Yes he is. 7000+ images - So Sad.

So sad to see that not everybody agree to let the others make their own choices
Yes, this is really so sad

the decisions other contributors make affect everyone.

This is always true but until DPC nobody seem to care. 

« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2014, 11:10 »
0
Deyan, it's hard to see how DPC can be good for contributors in the short or long term. By leaving your files at DPC you are effectively telling Fotolia that you are OK with the direction they are taking the industry. If you removed your files you would be offering solidarity with contributors and sending a clear message to DPC.

If we little boats gather together on the ocean and utilise only the wind of the supportive agencies then we'll likely have a sustainable industry for longer...

Outstanding post

« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2014, 11:26 »
+1
Yes he is. 7000+ images - So Sad.

So sad to see that not everybody agree to let the others make their own choices
Yes, this is really so sad

no, it is you Photobomb and some others who are sad ;D
from his post, i don't sense he is sad.
and  Beppe is correct. it is you who decides what you want with your work.
no more than a custom auto shop complaining that xxx franchise is giving away business for peanuts.

if his workload is of low-production cost or even zero cost, and he makes a killing in DPC ( i am not with fotolia or any DPC sites, just to let you know...)
his work is giving him the rewards he seek.

so why not?  if your work is of higher value, bully for you!
we divide the zero cost work and the higher value work accordingly,
and submit them to the agencies or sell it independently... locally or globally.

in the end, it is none of anyone's affair but his, as Beppe points out.

lastly, as he said
The purpose of my post was not to discuss DPC, because of this will stop. Am sorry, but it is really difficult to me to explane how I see this situation. May be a little bit later...

Let's focus our energy to create high value images which will not sell for $1. There are a lot of places to sell images for good money.
so, why not leave it as it is.

if it  leaves a sour taste in your mouths, you are just as free here on Tyler's MSG to start a new post
and say so.
furthermore, at least he is making some money, whereas others who cry shame may be giving their own work free on dst etc ... but that's for another thread.
i will keep this thread on issue as Deyan wishes   8)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 11:47 by etudiante_rapide »

« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2014, 11:48 »
+14
Hi everybody,

This month in Fotolia if I compare proportional for the first 21 days the income is 20% more than my best month ever  ;)

But the most important thing I notice is that this month I have not rise of the subscription sales!

Are you selling your images through the Dollar Photo Club?

I sell in DPC, but the rise is not from there as the subscription sales are not more then before DPC exist. I mean the sales as the number of sales, because now we have very good subscription sales in Fotolia as price. I think that about DPC we can draw conclusions for at least one year not now.

Deyan, do you know the reason why you have "good subscription sales in Fotolia as price"???
Because of all the contributors who opted out from DPC! All of us lost some money because of this!
And now you came here to tell us how happy you are with your sales?
May be all of these contributors are the reason why you make more money today!

You don't want to talk about DPC? There is direct relationship between DPC and FT!
People like you who supports DPC are not part of the community who thinks for the future of microstock!

« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2014, 12:03 »
+5
You don't want to talk about DPC? There is direct relationship between DPC and FT!
People like you who supports DPC are not part of the community who thinks for the future of microstock!

so where is the community?  a coop? an exclusive club? creative commons? software selfie?

maybe if those who are so pissed-off with him sends him an invitation he might just give you all his portfolio and not "compete" against you or me.

but in business, that would be ironic.  the world of business is just that...
the sharks eat the little fish like him, and when the little fish like him is finally getting some planktons off the ocean floor, he is seen as doing something wrong.

it sounds like a politician saying the whole nation has to tighten their belts while he gets fatter and his wallet gets thicker.

very interesting !

the sad hidden fact is that most of us started like he did. selling or giving away our wares with IStock at the beginning, and we became big earners. and suddenly microstock and even ft  are too small for us.
so we form little cliques and hype ourselves as something elitist.

and then little fish Deyan Georgiev comes along and announces he is doing fine, thank you !!!

and the whole "community" goes ballistic  :'(
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 12:06 by etudiante_rapide »

« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2014, 12:21 »
+6
You don't want to talk about DPC? There is direct relationship between DPC and FT!
People like you who supports DPC are not part of the community who thinks for the future of microstock!

so where is the community?  a coop? an exclusive club? creative commons? software selfie?

maybe if those who are so pissed-off with him sends him an invitation he might just give you all his portfolio and not "compete" against you or me.

but in business, that would be ironic.  the world of business is just that...
the sharks eat the little fish like him, and when the little fish like him is finally getting some planktons off the ocean floor, he is seen as doing something wrong.

it sounds like a politician saying the whole nation has to tighten their belts while he gets fatter and his wallet gets thicker.

very interesting !

the sad hidden fact is that most of us started like he did. selling or giving away our wares with IStock at the beginning, and we became big earners. and suddenly microstock and even ft  are too small for us.
so we form little cliques and hype ourselves as something elitist.

and then little fish Deyan Georgiev comes along and announces he is doing fine, thank you !!!

and the whole "community" goes ballistic  :'(

I don't think it was about sour grapes or any of that. There's always a real danger in crowdsourcing that the crowd can devalue the work and hurt the industry. So, I see it as more of a warning than picking on someone or bullying them.

« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2014, 13:00 »
0

I don't think it was about sour grapes or any of that. There's always a real danger in crowdsourcing that the crowd can devalue the work and hurt the industry. So, I see it as more of a warning than picking on someone or bullying them.

cheers 4 the insight, cthoman.
but OP is not the one who started the crowdsourcing. he is a little fish and a new minnow .
my point is that many years ago, we all started in the same way as he is today.
in more ways than one, we set the precedent... ie lifestyle , food, etc and the money was great
with less upstarts.
today, the upstarts are younger, brighter, faster... (like my monicker "rapid learner")..
and they know the technology better than most of us who were not weaned on these technology.
like Yuri said, even the smartphone is soon or already a contender.

the ocean is wide, and little minnow here by himself is not a contender. but with many little minnows
= a big school of little sardines. and they can be like the piranhas, gobble up the old cow(s).

if old cow(s) want to keep the crown, old cow(s) have to stay uptodate and face the competition.
old cows are only sitting comfy because our old images gain first page first para. which is more or less
filling our coffer.
but eventually, old cow(s) need to stand shoulder to shoulder with their new work
or else be replaced.

some old cows are unbeatable, like certain exclusives who are never even here on MSG or even their agency's forum. they keep producing new work and do not see little minnows as a threat.

in fact, they welcome it, as little minnows bring new ideas and reflect the changing micro market.

« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2014, 13:57 »
+5
Those who are opt in on DPC, they say:

we need time to figure out of DPC is hurting our sells on other sites or not.

But they don't have a clue of where the sells come from on their list of sold images, either from Fotolia and DPC.

then they see less ODDs on Shutterstock and say that there is no proof that DPC is responsible for that loss.

then they see a day with more ODD and SOD and post "oh see? see? that'a proof that DPC is not hurting our sells"

How can they possibly guess, if in one day they have 100 subs + 7 ODDs, that in reality they could have 110 subs + 10 ODDs if they weren't on DPC..

I would like them to explain, how possibly can they prove/know for sure, in a year from now, that their sells were/are not being affected by DPC.

Because I must be really dumb, but I can't see a way to realize that.




« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2014, 14:06 »
+1

thank u, but not here to collect likes. just want to say my piece. life is too short to worry over what others think about you, ..when the fact is , they are mostly clueless about themselves.  carpe diem. 8)

« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2014, 14:07 »
+4
if old cow(s) want to keep the crown, old cow(s) have to stay uptodate and face the competition.
old cows are only sitting comfy because our old images gain first page first para. which is more or less
filling our coffer.
but eventually, old cow(s) need to stand shoulder to shoulder with their new work
or else be replaced.

My fear isn't being gobbled up by new fish. It's everyone becoming cannibals and no longer being safe at my favorite restaurants because of the chaos.

« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2014, 14:19 »
-6
DPC have ~25% less images than Fotolia, I am on the 75% side of portfolio by the moment as I said. After a year will do analysis. This situation with DPC is not positive nor negative and is not so easy to define it.(I know about the $1, about the unused downloads transfer month to month and so on)

To all of you who reproach me have to tell you to concentrate to create more images, to create more creative images, to spend more time on thinking what to shot and to spend more time to shot more...You do not have to care about the microstock industry, because like all businesses this will be regulated on business principle not because of our "hard contributor activity and protest". Try to create a high value images and all agencies will pray you to give them your photos at high price.

Maybe you would not have thought that every your sale could only happen at this particular moment at this particular agency, only from this particular client who use only this particular search tags and liked your particular image. This is very important if you are not presented as wide as possible then you are falling behind.

For me are two types of contributors who opted out from DPC the first one are big players who knows that the client can/will search them directly on DPC for to buy cheap(but if this is true they have to sell only on one place with the best prices) and the others are the rest, I can't understand them for the moment.

You make me superfluous to justify why I'm in, but the question is so simple because of money :)
I'm in because of money, you are out because of money. 

Finally do not underestimate the agencies, they have business for billions and will not collapse it don't worry you just try to be maximal presented with your portfolio.

objowl

« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2014, 14:28 »
0
and if you profit because Fotolia increase prices due to the pressure of others you will come here to gloat about it?

« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2014, 14:46 »
-2
and if you profit because Fotolia increase prices due to the pressure of others you will come here to gloat about it?

Would be true if we have the same pictures ;), again hypothetical stories...

« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2014, 14:53 »
+5
I just paid $29 for a 32 gb memory card at Costco.  It would take 116 downloads at DPC (oops, add 17 more for the sales tax) to pay for it.  Why bother?

But back to the original question.... I am not at home so not looking at my spreadsheet, but I have noticed several sub sales at Fotolia between $1-$3 this month.  It's almost enough of a change for me to consider uploading to them again.

« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2014, 16:23 »
0
Those who are opt in on DPC, they say:

we need time to figure out of DPC is hurting our sells on other sites or not.

But they don't have a clue of where the sells come from on their list of sold images, either from Fotolia and DPC.

then they see less ODDs on Shutterstock and say that there is no proof that DPC is responsible for that loss.

then they see a day with more ODD and SOD and post "oh see? see? that'a proof that DPC is not hurting our sells"

How can they possibly guess, if in one day they have 100 subs + 7 ODDs, that in reality they could have 110 subs + 10 ODDs if they weren't on DPC..

I would like them to explain, how possibly can they prove/know for sure, in a year from now, that their sells were/are not being affected by DPC.

Because I must be really dumb, but I can't see a way to realize that.

not sure if i understand your point. but i will take it in a nutshell to assume you mean that you have both the same portfolio in SS as well as on FT. and when u lose sales on SS, u blame those on DPC for ripping you off.
the thing is, you are the maker of your own misfortune if you cannibalize your portfolio everywhere.
if your work is only available at SS, and certain other works in available on FT and DPC, there is no way DPC is affecting your sales .  you just need an excuse to blame your lack of sales on someone else, other than the fact that you did not make images the clients need.

afaik, there is no proof that clients will check DPC and SS and then go back to DPC . in business, not too many buyers have the time to go price checking. and even if so, the best images still win the day.

if not, clones of Yuri, SJLocke, Dolgachov, Lise Gagnon,etc.. will wipe out the earnings of these icons a long time ago.  There is no proof i am right , either.

but many of these top sellers say one thing in common:  don't worry over the little things,
just make sellable images. if you make images clients need, you need not have to come up with an excuse why you suddenly are losing money.

« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2014, 16:29 »
+3
if not, clones of Yuri, SJLocke, Dolgachov, Lise Gagnon,etc.. will wipe out the earnings of these icons a long time ago.  There is no proof i am right , either.

but many of these top sellers say one thing in common:  don't worry over the little things,
just make sellable images. if you make images clients need, you need not have to come up with an excuse why you suddenly are losing money.

Well obviously, Yuri doesn't believe that.  ;D

« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2014, 16:41 »
+3
Quote
"but many of these top sellers say one thing in common:  don't worry over the little things,
just make sellable images. if you make images clients need, you need not have to come up with an excuse why you suddenly are losing money."

Maybe but if my images have a life of say 100 sales I would much rather be getting $7 to $15 per sale instead of $0.29.

The crux of the matter here is there are three types of contributors
1) Those who are all about today and are looking to max out this month's income and don't really care about the future.
2) Those who would rather make less today but still be making money 5 years from now
3) Those who have uploaded 100 images or less and have forgotten they even have files for sale.

I fall into the 2nd category and feel like the agencies will just keep chipping away at my income until there is nothing left. I prefer to say no and choose other outlets rather than just accept that my images are only worth $1. And yes customers do seek out images because if they didn't my personal sites would not be garnering any sales at all.

You can argue that DPC may not be harming your sales or mine but it is hard to argue that DPC as a concept isn't likely to hurt all of our sales in the long run. You (contributors in general) are entitled to choose today's sales I personally am more interested in sustained future ones.

« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2014, 16:43 »
0
and if you profit because Fotolia increase prices due to the pressure of others you will come here to gloat about it?

hey, you are as free as he is to gloat, as you call it. Tyler lets us start a thread as we wish. i don't see a problem here. if u think it's a gloat, go make your own gloat !

« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2014, 16:46 »
0
You can argue that DPC may not be harming your sales or mine but it is hard to argue that DPC as a concept isn't likely to hurt all of our sales in the long run. You (contributors in general) are entitled to choose today's sales I personally am more interested in sustained future ones.

i am not arguing anything about DPC hurting my sales, because it isn't.
i am saying, if we want a whipping boy, we have lots more than just DPC of ft, or the OP.
why not pick on say, dreamstime and their free images?
that's a lot worse than DPC, isn't it?

what i am saying is, he has every privilege to find DPC advantageous to him. it isn't to me, because i am not in DPC, but then again, as i said, i do not cannibalize my work . but that's not the issue of this thread.

the issue is, he came to let us know his views on DPC. we may not like it, but it is his thread.

« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2014, 16:49 »
0

 Those who are opt in on DPC, they say:

 
 we need time to figure out of DPC is hurting our sells on other sites or not.
 
 But they don't have a clue of where the sells come from on their list of sold images, either from Fotolia and DPC.
 
 then they see less ODDs on Shutterstock and say that there is no proof that DPC is responsible for that loss.
 
 then they see a day with more ODD and SOD and post "oh see? see? that'a proof that DPC is not hurting our sells"
 
 How can they possibly guess, if in one day they have 100 subs + 7 ODDs, that in reality they could have 110 subs + 10 ODDs if they weren't on DPC..
 
 I would like them to explain, how possibly can they prove/know for sure, in a year from now, that their sells were/are not being affected by DPC.
 
 Because I must be really dumb, but I can't see a way to realize that.
 
Conversely, how can you prove / know for sure that they are?
As far as Im concerned the jury is out.  A few cents per sale is across the board not just this one site AND its the only place that pays in which is a 35% bonus at the moment.

« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2014, 16:53 »
+4
@etudiante_rapide
I couldn't agree more. But you also won't find my images in the DT free section, I only have 8 images at vectorstock and its been almost 2 years since I have uploaded to a sub site. I think Envatos pricing is to low and I stopped uploading to Bigstock when they introduced their new system.

There are other ways to make money in this industry. Although, I will admit that I am certain I will make far less this month than I would have had I uploaded everywhere. I am also quite certain that I will make more money in the long run by being selective about who gets my images.

« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2014, 17:05 »
0
@etudiante_rapide
I couldn't agree more. But you also won't find my images in the DT free section, I only have 8 images at vectorstock and its been almost 2 years since I have uploaded to a sub site. I think Envatos pricing is to low and I stopped uploading to Bigstock when they introduced their new system.

There are other ways to make money in this industry. Although, I will admit that I am certain I will make far less this month than I would have had I uploaded everywhere. I am also quite certain that I will make more money in the long run by being selective about who gets my images.

chromaco...yes, i agree too. we cannot always expect the other person to like what we say or do;  to expect that would be foolish and unrealistic.
the only thing that matters, to me.. to you.. to the next guy or gal... is that we make money one way or the other. i am not worried over whether you are recording 200% profit this year over last year,
or if Yuri cares about this or not. i only care that i see an increase in my own payout monthly.

no one else is contributing to my studio, equipment, rent,etc... so no one is entitled to qualify anything i do.
until you or the other person is my benefactor, we answer to no one else .

we do as we see fit. whether it is sustainable or not, it is not the OP , you or me, who is going to make it sustainable or not. it is Jon Oringer, and other owners of each agency that decides that.

we can only see what they do, and then choose whether we want to continue to supply them with our work or not. we can also dream and hope for some saviour to come and make microstock less of a monopoly, but really... we already have enough (dreamstime),lol..

i take it one day at the time. if i wanted sustainability, it would not even be as a stock photographer.
20 years ago, i bring in more money in one walk in to a newspaper and a photo essay page of 5 photos than i ever see in an extended licence today.

so, to ask for sustainability is a myth. there is no such thing... at least not in photography, or music, or art, or whatever.   if you want sustainability, go toss burgers  ;D

sorry OT, but maybe not. our OP is making money for himself. so , to him, it works... DPC works for him.

« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2014, 17:16 »
+3
But don't you agree that you and I are better off if we work to protect our long term interests against tactics that undercut our potential sales. It seems to me that saying "produce good product and everything will work out" is a bit optimistic. If we would collectively say "no" to bad industry policies everyone would be better off. The problem here is that too few people are willing to say no. The agencies know this and are exploiting it. The OP is quite happy to get sub commissions for on-demand purchases because he has decided that it is OK. I have decided that it isn't OK. I wish he had my point of view but I respect that he doesn't. Nevertheless, I do feel that his perspective will in some small way hurt my sales in the future.

It's really not about 1 person... it's about 10,000 with the same attitude. That is where the problem lies.

« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2014, 17:28 »
0
But don't you agree that you and I are better off if we work to protect our long term interests

what long term interest?  as soon as a microstock company makes enough money, they sell it to someone else and take to the hills. and then suddenly someone else comes up with the magic pill, and everyone goes oooh ahhh!

there is no long term interest ; at least not anyone i see to the right of this page,
except SS. but even that is now open to question.

carpe diem, because if you place your hopes in any microstock company or any company
even if it is successful today,
it is not going to bend over backwards for anyone but themselves.
so you make the money while you can.

all else is maya ... illusion  ;)

cheers for the discussion. i wish the OP continual success. i am going out for a pint so, no more talk LMAO

« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2014, 17:50 »
0
But don't you agree that you and I are better off if we work to protect our long term interests against tactics that undercut our potential sales. It seems to me that saying "produce good product and everything will work out" is a bit optimistic. If we would collectively say "no" to bad industry policies everyone would be better off. The problem here is that too few people are willing to say no. The agencies know this and are exploiting it. The OP is quite happy to get sub commissions for on-demand purchases because he has decided that it is OK. I have decided that it isn't OK. I wish he had my point of view but I respect that he doesn't. Nevertheless, I do feel that his perspective will in some small way hurt my sales in the future.

It's really not about 1 person... it's about 10,000 with the same attitude. That is where the problem lies.

Unfortunately, I think people have to see it for themselves before they change their minds. They have to find a better place than the status quo to sell their work and/or experience the frustration of falling sales, royalty rates, or other setbacks. Not everybody is there yet and they may never be. I think opinions will eventually come around, but it may take a while. It would definitely be nice to speed it up.  ;)

« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2014, 18:02 »
+1
About 3 years ago you started hinting about a better way. I decided to follow your lead and looked for my own options. I have to say that you are probably right about needing to see it for yourself. I think it's all going to come crashing down and explode. I've built my life boat I just want it to be stronger.

stock-will-eat-itself

« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2014, 18:55 »
-3
Photography and illustration are completely commodified now, no use picking on the OP he's just reacting to the way things are.

The problem with stock is that it gives you the illusion that you are in control, the moment you try to make money in stock you instantly commodify your work.

Opting in, opting out really makes no difference.

« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2014, 19:10 »
+2
...I think it's all going to come crashing down and explode. I've built my life boat I just want it to be stronger.

It's not going to crash, but it will divide. Anyone worth their salt will find it entirely unsustainable (cracks me up every time I use that word in this forum) to continue producing work that ends up in these nanostock products like DPC. And there will be more of them, and without opt-outs.

Remember that every time a company pulls some shenanigans to cut our pay, it's a bit of an experiment. There is a pre-determined set of criteria in which the experiment is deemed a success or failure, and some of those criteria include how many contributors opt-out, how many delete their accounts and leave, etc. And as long as those numbers stay within a range that is satisfactory to the company, they'll keep pushing these things out.

Or other companies will watch and see what happens and they duplicate the experiment. They'll look at DPC and say, "Hey, Fotolia rolled out this thing out and only 25% of their contributors bailed." That's an acceptable amount loss in some cases, and that experiment would be deemed a success and worthy of repeating.

So as more of these things emerge, the market will divide. But microstock won't implode. It will just separate out from these nanostock offerings and we'll see these divergent levels of stock content, price points, etc. As far as customers are concerned, if they're satisfied with these cheaper yet lower-quality collections, they'll be fine with going to the DPCs of the world. If they want something better, they'll go up a level.

And these nanostock collections will suffer in terms of quality. Even though there are some good artists opted in right now, they'll burn out eventually and the quality of those collections will drop. Then customers will have to go elsewhere if they want better content.

« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2014, 02:09 »
+4
The purpose of my post was not to discuss DPC, because of this will stop. Am sorry, but it is really difficult to me to explane how I see this situation. May be a little bit later...

Let's focus our energy to create high value images which will not sell for $1. There are a lot of places to sell images for good money.
There will eventually be less and less places around to sell images for good money if buyers go for the cheap option and the good companies cannot compete with them.

« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2014, 02:37 »
+1
The purpose of my post was not to discuss DPC, because of this will stop. Am sorry, but it is really difficult to me to explane how I see this situation. May be a little bit later...

Let's focus our energy to create high value images which will not sell for $1. There are a lot of places to sell images for good money.
There will eventually be less and less places around to sell images for good money if buyers go for the cheap option and the good companies cannot compete with them.

The purpose of my post was not to discuss DPC, but to share that I have rise of my sales from Fotolia not subscriptions, not about DPC!

Come on let's stop with this pessimism  :)

MxR

« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2014, 05:47 »
+4
Deyan, last 1-may was a deactivation day and you have best month in fotolia THANKS to our protest.

Because this day, now you earn a HUGE increase comission in "Subscription" images and are 50$ E-L license in DPC.

Yes, improve our images help us to sell more... and protest help us to earn more for sale.

You must do wath you think is best for your bussines, of course...   my economy will be good even microstock die but i want care a minimun for my images.

Sorry for my english, best wishes.

« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2014, 05:59 »
-2
Deyan, last 1-may was a deactivation day and you have best month in fotolia THANKS to our protest.

Because this day, now you earn a HUGE increase comission in "Subscription" images and are 50$ E-L license in DPC.

Yes, improve our images help us to sell more... and protest help us to earn more for sale.

You must do wath you think is best for your bussines, of course...   my economy will be good even microstock die but i want care a minimun for my images.

Sorry for my english, best wishes.

You are totally wrong, because I do not have more subscription sales, but more standard sales from Fotolia! This is all about Fotolia, do not confuse it, please!

MxR

« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2014, 07:31 »
+3
 not confusing anything.

No more subscriptions speak, I speak of that now pay more for them.

... and that has made the same number of subscriptions now all earn more money on fotolia ... you have good pictures, review the earnings and paid subscriptions to be 0.95, 1.20, 066 .... euros? before we only earn 0,29-0,29, 0,29...

I explain that this increase were from our potest vs DPC.

My english is bad, I hope I have not offended and I repeat that I respect your decision, but do not share

« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2014, 07:42 »
+2
not confusing anything.

No more subscriptions speak, I speak of that now pay more for them.

... and that has made the same number of subscriptions now all earn more money on fotolia ... you have good pictures, review the earnings and paid subscriptions to be 0.95, 1.20, 066 .... euros? before we only earn 0,29-0,29, 0,29...

I explain that this increase were from our potest vs DPC.

My english is bad, I hope I have not offended and I repeat that I respect your decision, but do not share

You still do not understand me, I mean: "Fotolia - File Sold" not "Fotolia - File Sold (Subscription)"
I have more "ON-DEMAND PURCHASE (CREDITS)" sales!!!  ;)

« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2014, 07:43 »
0
I think what he's saying is that Fotolia has had more total sales regardless of what they pay, and those totals have increased his earnings. All my sites are up this month except for dreamstime and veer.

I'm glad I didn't delete my port on FT.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 07:46 by robhainer »

« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2014, 07:48 »
+6
@Deyan Georgiev
If you do not have more subscription sales, why are you on DPC then?

You are willing to risk to jeopardize your earning elsewhere when you don't see increase of subscription sales in Fotolia.
For what? the tiny 5% difference? And yes, that was actually offered too because of the protest.

I am not reproaching anyone here, it just make no sense in my mind...

Oh and about the 75 % that are still on DPC, well, the majority doesn't actually have a clue about it. Fotolia never informed anyone that they were taking all the images and putting them automatically on other site, with different selling prices/packs.

« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2014, 08:13 »
+6
@Deyan Georgiev
If you do not have more subscription sales, why are you on DPC then?

You are willing to risk to jeopardize your earning elsewhere when you don't see increase of subscription sales in Fotolia.
For what? the tiny 5% difference? And yes, that was actually offered too because of the protest.

I am not reproaching anyone here, it just make no sense in my mind...

Oh and about the 75 % that are still on DPC, well, the majority doesn't actually have a clue about it. Fotolia never informed anyone that they were taking all the images and putting them automatically on other site, with different selling prices/packs.

yes - why then to be at dpc - and money is not everything - there is a little thing called moral

« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2014, 10:30 »
+15
...money is not everything - there is a little thing called moral

Even for the folks who think money is everything, participating in DPC still makes no sense. It really is a simple money issue. If DPC grows, we all make less money. It is really just that simple.

I can sort of understand the logic that this is just another avenue of licensing images. And I get that some people take the approach to this business that they just want to get their work in front of as many buyers as possible, so DPC is a viable option for them. I don't agree with that logic, but I get where it comes from.

But I'll never understand the people who knew about DPC, knew what it was and the potential danger it represented, and yet they still couldn't step outside of their "scrape up every last penny I can get" mentality for even a short time and opt out, even if only temporarily. They could have participated in the opt-out for a month, just to try and help send that message to Fotolia that this isn't cool. But instead they stayed in just to get a few bucks at the start of DPC, if even that much.

It is by far the single most short-sighted thing I've ever encountered in this or any other business. Those people may very well have traded their long-term potential earnings in microstock for a month's worth of DPC earnings, which in many cases probably amounts to less than $1. I'm pretty sure I've never personally witnessed anything so insane before.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 10:33 by EmberMike »

« Reply #60 on: July 23, 2014, 10:40 »
-3
About 3 years ago you started hinting about a better way. I decided to follow your lead and looked for my own options. I have to say that you are probably right about needing to see it for yourself. I think it's all going to come crashing down and explode. I've built my life boat I just want it to be stronger.

lmao, a classic comment, congrats !
but you don't need a life boat,... just learn to be a stronger swimmer and be able to tread water consistently.
much like that anecdote about two hunters, one wears running shoes and carries no rifle,etc..
why? because i can run faster  .

« Reply #61 on: July 23, 2014, 10:47 »
-3
Even for the folks who think money is everything, participating in DPC still makes no sense. It really is a simple money issue. If DPC grows, we all make less money. It is really just that simple.

no, it isn't that simple..
money is everything , or else why would you put up with the bs about curators telling you whether your work is fit for them or not?
and the difference between dfc and subs are really moot.
sure, you and i make more than say 33 cts, in fact, 105 bucks per sale,etc..
but for most other ppl , it is either dfc or give away their image free...

we don't sink because some little fish decides to stay in dfc.
we sink because we stop making images that clients need,
and lose the sense of dividing what to give for subs agencies, and other agencies that pays better..(if they sell any, really!!!LOL).

still, some of us do make a lot more than dfc, and would not join fotolia (at all, even before dfc)..

but to say that OP is responsible for your own shortfall, ... oh, that's a lot of youknow what!!!

« Reply #62 on: July 23, 2014, 11:26 »
+8
See... this is the difference between you and me. I see all sorts of viable options outside of the big guys. As I was thinking about your perspective last night I realized that all of my favorite agencies/venues have all been started by illustrators with an illustration bias. That is why they work for me. Toonvectors, clipartof, symbiostock, GLstockimages. All built by illustrators but also actively and aggressively supported by illustrators. About the only new photo agency that fills this criteria is Stocksy. I'm just reading between the lines but I think illustrators have a more positive outlook on the future because we have some new options that actually work for us. Photographers seem less likely to give new agencies a chance. Maybe you guys have been burned more? I could be wrong, but that is the way it seems to appear.

« Reply #63 on: July 23, 2014, 11:33 »
+1
About 3 years ago you started hinting about a better way. I decided to follow your lead and looked for my own options. I have to say that you are probably right about needing to see it for yourself. I think it's all going to come crashing down and explode. I've built my life boat I just want it to be stronger.

lmao, a classic comment, congrats !
but you don't need a life boat,... just learn to be a stronger swimmer and be able to tread water consistently.
much like that anecdote about two hunters, one wears running shoes and carries no rifle,etc..
why? because i can run faster  .

You can use whatever metaphor you want. The fact still remains that if you take what the agencies give you, you are at their whims. I know I've been burned by that strategy. If you go out and try to improve things or find new markets, then you can control or at least somewhat insulate yourself from those whims.

« Reply #64 on: July 23, 2014, 12:10 »
0
I think this topic is completely out of its meaning, so I am out.

You should know that I respect the opinion of all of you, but I have other ways of doing things. I'm not saying that I support DPC nor not, still less any subscriptions whatever they are.

Just make one calculation and may be you will get relax :)

Divide the amount of money earned by the number of sales for the entire period you sell in Shutterstock, Fotolia, iStock...no matter and You'll see that You work for $1 average with all of them!!!

Be carrefull to not fall in processes that do not understand and do not know where they lead, because this business have marketing, PR and so on, like every other business. I will not attend and will do my job to create images.

Let's go do some new shots...

« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2014, 12:20 »
+4
Wrong!
RPD
ToonVectors $18.67
Self Hosted $9.83
Clipartof $6.91
StockFresh $3.80
GLStock Images $5.50
Stockami $4.00
Dreamstime $3.36
Even Canstock comes in at $2.83

FT  $.44
DPC $.29

Your choice, but you have to sell well over 10 times the amount of images I do to make the same money.

« Reply #66 on: July 23, 2014, 12:23 »
0
Wrong!
RPD
ToonVectors $18.67
Self Hosted $9.83
Clipartof $6.91
StockFresh $3.80
GLStock Images $5.50
Stockami $4.00
Dreamstime $3.36
Even Canstock comes in at $2.83

FT  $.44
DPC $.29

Your choice, but you have to sell well over 10 times the amount of images I do to make the same money.

We talk about images

« Reply #67 on: July 23, 2014, 12:26 »
-1
Wrong!
RPD
ToonVectors $18.67
Self Hosted $9.83
Clipartof $6.91
StockFresh $3.80
GLStock Images $5.50
Stockami $4.00
Dreamstime $3.36
Even Canstock comes in at $2.83

FT  $.44
DPC $.29

Your choice, but you have to sell well over 10 times the amount of images I do to make the same money.

RPD is the most meaningless stat that you could possibly use. It doesn't account for volume.

« Reply #68 on: July 23, 2014, 12:29 »
+3
Fair enough, but you can see where FT and DPC fall when compared to other sites with roughly the same images.
DPC is by far the worst choice for selling your images. Why don't you share your numbers? How many agencies do you support that are averaging $.29?

@robhainer
That was his measure not mine. Also, volume means more theft and illegal free offers out there. I'll take one $10 sale over 33 $.29 sales every time.

« Reply #69 on: July 23, 2014, 12:33 »
0
Wrong!
RPD
ToonVectors $18.67
Self Hosted $9.83
Clipartof $6.91
StockFresh $3.80
GLStock Images $5.50
Stockami $4.00
Dreamstime $3.36
Even Canstock comes in at $2.83

FT  $.44
DPC $.29

Your choice, but you have to sell well over 10 times the amount of images I do to make the same money.

You can't compare illustrator numbers and outlet variety with photographer numbers.  Totally different animal. Photographers have fewer options. 

Not saying that means opting in to DPC, but photos are more plentiful and prices for photos are driven down because of that. 

« Reply #70 on: July 23, 2014, 12:43 »
+1
RPD is the most meaningless stat that you could possibly use. It doesn't account for volume.

I used to think that. Pretty sure that someone could quote me as saying in this very forum that RPD is a "suckers' statistic" or something like that.

Now, I'd say that I was wrong. To an extent, anyway. You can't focus on RPD exclusively. For better or for worse (mostly worse these days) we need the high-volume companies if we want to earn decently in this business. But more and more lately, RPD has become an important stat. In my effort to find higher RPD companies to work with, I landed at Creative Market which is currently my #3 best earner.

Shifting more of my focus to companies like that may end up being my saving grace in stock. Because I'm not seeing any new growth in the high-volume companies, at least not personally.

« Reply #71 on: July 23, 2014, 12:43 »
+2
Absolutely agree!  The argument was that all agencies offer the same RPD so what's the difference? My point was they don't offer the same RPD. Even for photos.
Wrong!
RPD
ToonVectors $18.67
Self Hosted $9.83
Clipartof $6.91
StockFresh $3.80
GLStock Images $5.50
Stockami $4.00
Dreamstime $3.36
Even Canstock comes in at $2.83

FT  $.44
DPC $.29

Your choice, but you have to sell well over 10 times the amount of images I do to make the same money.

You can't compare illustrator numbers and outlet variety with photographer numbers.  Totally different animal. Photographers have fewer options. 

Not saying that means opting in to DPC, but photos are more plentiful and prices for photos are driven down because of that. 

« Reply #72 on: July 23, 2014, 13:22 »
+2
RPD is the most meaningless stat that you could possibly use. It doesn't account for volume.

I've found my volume has been decreasing over time, so RPD has become important to me. I don't know if that has been the case for others, but that is the trend I'm seeing.

This is kind of how I see the brief history of micro:

1. Started with high volume and low prices with little competition.
2. Prices increased and volume decreased. Competition also increased, but incomes were increasing.
3. Prices plateaued or decreased, royalty clawbacks started, volumes and incomes decreased or leveled off. Competition continues to increase.

Maybe, this is just how it has gone for me, but the recent trend is sort of disturbing. It certainly has sustainability problems. RPD doesn't fix that alone, but sales at higher RPD sites are a start.



« Reply #73 on: July 23, 2014, 13:23 »
-1
RPD is the most meaningless stat that you could possibly use. It doesn't account for volume.

I used to think that. Pretty sure that someone could quote me as saying in this very forum that RPD is a "suckers' statistic" or something like that.

Now, I'd say that I was wrong. To an extent, anyway. You can't focus on RPD exclusively. For better or for worse (mostly worse these days) we need the high-volume companies if we want to earn decently in this business. But more and more lately, RPD has become an important stat. In my effort to find higher RPD companies to work with, I landed at Creative Market which is currently my #3 best earner.

Shifting more of my focus to companies like that may end up being my saving grace in stock. Because I'm not seeing any new growth in the high-volume companies, at least not personally.

My RPD at Shutterstock is 63 cents; My RPD at Veer is $1.89, almost three times more. But during the same period on both sites with similar ports, Shutterstock has paid me $27,200 while Veer has paid me $659. So in my case, RPD means jack all.

So it's not a matter of comparing one $10 sale to 33 .29-cent sales. It's a matter of comparing one $10 sale to 333 .29-cent sales.

Now, everyone has slightly different experiences. That's why we shouldn't be jumping all over people who go against the grain to do what's best for their business. I opted out of DPC for a bit, then opted back in. It hasn't had any negative impact on my sales on other sites. In fact, my sales on Shutterstock continue to grow, subs, ODs, ELs and SODs, while Fotolia has jumped into second place, if still way back behind Shutterstock.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 13:29 by robhainer »

« Reply #74 on: July 23, 2014, 13:26 »
0
Wrong!
RPD
ToonVectors $18.67
Self Hosted $9.83
Clipartof $6.91
StockFresh $3.80
GLStock Images $5.50
Stockami $4.00
Dreamstime $3.36
Even Canstock comes in at $2.83

FT  $.44
DPC $.29

Your choice, but you have to sell well over 10 times the amount of images I do to make the same money.

You can't compare illustrator numbers and outlet variety with photographer numbers.  Totally different animal. Photographers have fewer options. 

Not saying that means opting in to DPC, but photos are more plentiful and prices for photos are driven down because of that.

I think the macro area is healthier for photographers. I don't see a lot of illustrators talking about that, but more about "midstock" or higher priced micro.

« Reply #75 on: July 23, 2014, 13:28 »
+1

Divide the amount of money earned by the number of sales for the entire period you sell in Shutterstock, Fotolia, iStock...no matter and You'll see that You work for $1 average with all of them!!!


Let's go do some new shots...

Absolutely false. My RPD is almost 13$ (IS exclusive) and I'm a photographer.  There's a difference, from 1 to 13.

On the other hand, even is your general RPD is 1, the 0.29, 0.40 or whatever handout you get at DPC, that's not even half 1, even if the images sell at 1 $. Photographer's comission and price of sale is not the same.

I think you have a lot to learn about the microstock business.

« Reply #76 on: July 23, 2014, 13:30 »
0

Divide the amount of money earned by the number of sales for the entire period you sell in Shutterstock, Fotolia, iStock...no matter and You'll see that You work for $1 average with all of them!!!


Let's go do some new shots...

Absolutely false. My RPD is almost 13$ (IS exclusive), and with volume, and I'm a photographer.  There's a difference, from 1 to 13.

On the other hand, even is your general RPD is 1, the 0.29, 0.40 or whatever handout you get at DPC, that's not even half 1, even if the images sell at 1 $. Photographer's comission and price of sale is not the same.

I think you have a lot to learn about the microstock business.

« Reply #77 on: July 23, 2014, 13:36 »
0
RPD is the most meaningless stat that you could possibly use. It doesn't account for volume.

I've found my volume has been decreasing over time, so RPD has become important to me. I don't know if that has been the case for others, but that is the trend I'm seeing.

This is kind of how I see the brief history of micro:

1. Started with high volume and low prices with little competition.
2. Prices increased and volume decreased. Competition also increased, but incomes were increasing.
3. Prices plateaued or decreased, royalty clawbacks started, volumes and incomes decreased or leveled off. Competition continues to increase.

Maybe, this is just how it has gone for me, but the recent trend is sort of disturbing. It certainly has sustainability problems. RPD doesn't fix that alone, but sales at higher RPD sites are a start.



Shutterstock has been conspicuously absent from this conversation due to huge volume. That is not DPC right now. Also shutter is one of the few sites where RPD is actually going up. That is due to increased on-demand sales. I think that is why people are so concerned about DPC. They see it as stealing the on-demand from SS.

« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2014, 13:52 »
+1
Yes, but we don't know what impact DPC is having. Everyone just assumes. I can tell you from my part, it hasn't had any impact other to increase my FT sales a little, maybe. I don't know for sure because FT doesn't report if a sale is coming from DPC or if it's a standard sub off of its site.

I don't think it's accurate to assume that all people who buy OD packs on Shutterstock will all of a sudden jump over to DPC. Some might. And some might also buy cheap packs on 123RF and Deposit Photos.  My OD sales certainly haven't dropped. I haven't had a day yet this month without an OD sale, and most weekdays get me from 6 to 12 OD sales. The only thing I know for sure is that if my photos aren't on DPC, then buyers there will be buying someone else's images instead of mine.

RPD doesn't matter to me because there's no extra cost to me to put the files there. I upload primarily to make money on Shutterstock and everything else is just a bonus.

« Reply #79 on: July 23, 2014, 13:56 »
+2
Shutterstock has been conspicuously absent from this conversation due to huge volume. That is not DPC right now. Also shutter is one of the few sites where RPD is actually going up. That is due to increased on-demand sales. I think that is why people are so concerned about DPC. They see it as stealing the on-demand from SS.

I kind of see SS in the same position as IS was a few years ago. IS had raised prices a few years in a row and it benefited contributors with increased earnings. Meanwhile behind the scenes, the contributor base and images were growing faster than the customer base and purchases. So when they turn the raises off or worse decide to have pay cuts, then the reality of things comes crashing in.

SS has enjoyed a similar ride with On Demand and other sales benefiting contributors more than negative contributor to customer ratio. I fear history will repeat itself when the positives of On Demand level off and the realities of the marketplace catch up with it. Maybe, they will be able to stay ahead of it by introducing something new, but it seems it has to eventually catch up with them.

« Reply #80 on: July 23, 2014, 14:18 »
+4
money is not everything - there is a little thing called moral
So true.
DPC is the worst agency for selling your images.

« Reply #81 on: July 23, 2014, 14:38 »
+5
@robhainer

you say that DPC hasn't had any impact but how . do you know?
because you see SS earnings increasing? You can't assume that based on that because earnings could be even better without DPC. You seem to try to persuade yourself with that argument.

I think only SS staff, who have access to the general earnings from all site, can conclude something.

Honestly, I am not so worried as I was. Because half of my portfolio has what Fotolia doesn't have. And I will certainly continue to invest in my niches. What worries me, it's people saying to them "oh, it's ok" and then in some years we will see the 10CPC (c for CENT!) and there will always be people saying "it's ok, it's the same thing as other places, and I could get some extra tiny earnings"

« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2014, 14:40 »
+8
Yes, but we don't know what impact DPC is having. Everyone just assumes. I can tell you from my part, it hasn't had any impact other to increase my FT sales a little, maybe. I don't know for sure because FT doesn't report if a sale is coming from DPC or if it's a standard sub off of its site.

I don't think it's accurate to assume that all people who buy OD packs on Shutterstock will all of a sudden jump over to DPC. Some might. And some might also buy cheap packs on 123RF and Deposit Photos.  My OD sales certainly haven't dropped. I haven't had a day yet this month without an OD sale, and most weekdays get me from 6 to 12 OD sales. The only thing I know for sure is that if my photos aren't on DPC, then buyers there will be buying someone else's images instead of mine.

RPD doesn't matter to me because there's no extra cost to me to put the files there. I upload primarily to make money on Shutterstock and everything else is just a bonus.

Consider this:
Right now DP, DT, 123, and Getty are in meetings saying "Wow, look what Fotolia got away with!" I bet we could do this "amazing plan which would earn us market share and help our bottom line, because at the same time we can cut commissions by x%. Do you think we could have marketing ready to go within 3 months?"
So right around prime selling season of Sept, Oct, Nov, four "new" dollar photo clubs appear with huge marketing campaigns. All of a sudden On-Demand sales are non-existent and every sale is earning a commission of $.25 to $.38.

Still think DPC won't have any measurable effect on SS or other on-demand sales?
You don't have to be clairvoyant to see this one coming down the pipeline.

« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2014, 14:46 »
-1
@robhainer

you say that DPC hasn't had any impact but how . do you know?
because you see SS earnings increasing? You can't assume that based on that because earnings could be even better without DPC. You seem to try to persuade yourself with that argument.

I think only SS staff, who have access to the general earnings from all site, can conclude something.

Honestly, I am not so worried as I was. Because half of my portfolio has what Fotolia doesn't have. And I will certainly continue to invest in my niches. What worries me, it's people saying to them "oh, it's ok" and then in some years we will see the 10CPC (c for CENT!) and there will always be people saying "it's ok, it's the same thing as other places, and I could get some extra tiny earnings"

I can only go off what I'm seeing with my own port, just like the poster who started this thread. I could say the same thing about your position. You don't know either. Nobody does. So if that's the case, we can only follow what seems best to do individually, and that makes it wrong to jump all over the guy who started the thread.

Fact is, some of these people don't want you to do what's best for you. They want you to do what's best for them.

« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2014, 15:02 »
+1
Yes, but we don't know what impact DPC is having. Everyone just assumes. I can tell you from my part, it hasn't had any impact other to increase my FT sales a little, maybe. I don't know for sure because FT doesn't report if a sale is coming from DPC or if it's a standard sub off of its site.

I don't think it's accurate to assume that all people who buy OD packs on Shutterstock will all of a sudden jump over to DPC. Some might. And some might also buy cheap packs on 123RF and Deposit Photos.  My OD sales certainly haven't dropped. I haven't had a day yet this month without an OD sale, and most weekdays get me from 6 to 12 OD sales. The only thing I know for sure is that if my photos aren't on DPC, then buyers there will be buying someone else's images instead of mine.

RPD doesn't matter to me because there's no extra cost to me to put the files there. I upload primarily to make money on Shutterstock and everything else is just a bonus.

Consider this:
Right now DP, DT, 123, and Getty are in meetings saying "Wow, look what Fotolia got away with!" I bet we could do this "amazing plan which would earn us market share and help our bottom line, because at the same time we can cut commissions by x%. Do you think we could have marketing ready to go within 3 months?"
So right around prime selling season of Sept, Oct, Nov, four "new" dollar photo clubs appear with huge marketing campaigns. All of a sudden On-Demand sales are non-existent and every sale is earning a commission of $.25 to $.38.

Still think DPC won't have any measurable effect on SS or other on-demand sales?
You don't have to be clairvoyant to see this one coming down the pipeline.

There's more to a stock site, and any business for that matter, than price. If it was all about price, then why haven't all of Shutterstock's subscribers moved to Bigstock or Deposit Photos, where sub packages are cheaper? It's about marketing, quality of search, customer service and so on. People who have a good experience at a site are more likely to keep using it even if an image might be cheaper somewhere else.

« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2014, 15:13 »
+2
Maybe, but I would still like to get some on-demand sales at DP, 123, DT and Istock. Your argument seems to be based around SS being the only place you get decent sales so nowhere else really matters (its just extra income). SS doesn't exist in a vacuum and if you are down to just one agency selling for you, eventually you are in trouble.

« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2014, 15:19 »
0
Maybe, but I would still like to get some on-demand sales at DP, 123, DT and Istock. Your argument seems to be based around SS being the only place you get decent sales so nowhere else really matters (its just extra income). SS doesn't exist in a vacuum and if you are down to just one agency selling for you, eventually you are in trouble.

Shutterstock is 70 to 75 percent of my stock income, so it's pretty important. The other sites do matter, but not nearly as much. I just started really contributing to istock, and I have pretty big backlog to upload but sales are decent there so far from what I have so maybe it will balance things out a little.

« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2014, 15:25 »
+2
This is what scares me so much. Shutterstock is where almost everyone is making a large majority of their money. For me they are about 12-15% but that is still a good paycheck and would seriously hurt if I were to lose it. My percentage is relatively small in comparison and yet I am as vocal as I can be to try to protect it from predatory policies. If I were more invested in SS I would be scared to death of DPC and its successors.

« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2014, 15:34 »
+2
...If I were more invested in SS I would be scared to death of DPC and its successors.

One of many reasons I've been glad to see my SS earnings as a percentage of my total microstock income drop below 50% this year.

And I'm not wishing for SS to be any worse off then they are now. I'm just more comfortable seeing my income come more from multiple smaller companies and less from one big one.

« Reply #89 on: July 24, 2014, 10:27 »
0
This is what scares me so much. Shutterstock is where almost everyone is making a large majority of their money. For me they are about 12-15% but that is still a good paycheck and would seriously hurt if I were to lose it. My percentage is relatively small in comparison and yet I am as vocal as I can be to try to protect it from predatory policies. If I were more invested in SS I would be scared to death of DPC and its successors.

With people complaining about 123RF, Deposit Photos, Istock and Fotolia (DPC), that certainly doesn't leave much else except Shutterstock.

« Reply #90 on: July 24, 2014, 10:35 »
+1
This is what scares me so much. Shutterstock is where almost everyone is making a large majority of their money. For me they are about 12-15% but that is still a good paycheck and would seriously hurt if I were to lose it. My percentage is relatively small in comparison and yet I am as vocal as I can be to try to protect it from predatory policies. If I were more invested in SS I would be scared to death of DPC and its successors.

With people complaining about 123RF, Deposit Photos, Istock and Fotolia (DPC), that certainly doesn't leave much else except Shutterstock.

I know that is why I seem kind of grouchy most of the time. ;) Because there aren't very many places that I don't have complaints about.

Shelma1

« Reply #91 on: July 24, 2014, 10:44 »
+1
we can only follow what seems best to do individually, and that makes it wrong to jump all over the guy who started the thread.

Fact is, some of these people don't want you to do what's best for you. They want you to do what's best for them.

How is it that you were able to opt out of, then back in to, DPC?

Why did Fotolia suddenly offer higher commissions?


 

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