Author Topic: Fotolia Purchases WiLogo (Read 8170 times)

leaf · « **on:** March 19, 2012, 11:25 »

I thought I saw this here already but I couldn't find it now, so I perhaps it was somewhere else.

Fotolia just purchased the crowd-sourced logo site WiLogo .. full press release here
http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/14/stock-photo-site-fotolia-acquires-wilogo-a-crowdsourced-design-community/

cthoman · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2012, 11:32 »

Yeah, I got that email this morning. I'm not a big fan of spec work.

lagereek · « **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2012, 11:37 »

Yep! but its got nothing to do with photography! so really?

RacePhoto · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2012, 12:33 »

Quote from: cthoman on March 19, 2012, 11:32

Yeah, I got that email this morning. I'm not a big fan of spec work.

I'm a none of the above, not designer, don't work for FT and wonder about Logo spec work. BUT, nice move, looks like something that fits with their business and marketing. That plus adding the US to a mostly European site, could be profitable for them. Nice work, I hope it works out for them building a stronger identity.

This can only help all of you who do contribute to FT.

Just in case. This has nothing to do with WiLogo, the way it runs or the competition for one sale aspect. I'm commenting on how it will help FTs place in the market and potentially bring buyers to their family of sites. Who knows, maybe they will have placement for the non-selected work on FT for sale?

Gregor909 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2012, 13:38 »

I checked the site, but I can't say I like the concept!
They let designers work hard on designing a logo, but only the one selected gets paid.
Contests are great for students who like to show off their skills and who like the practice and motivation. But for professionals who are trying to make a living, this is slavery.

ThomasAmby · « **Reply #5 on:** March 19, 2012, 14:20 »

Quote from: Gregor909 on March 19, 2012, 13:38

I checked the site, but I can't say I like the concept!
They let designers work hard on designing a logo, but only the one selected gets paid.
Contests are great for students who like to show off their skills and who like the practice and motivation. But for professionals who are trying to make a living, this is slavery.

+1

Similar to 99designs.. Over there I've seen some terrible ratios of logo designs created to payments released.
Something like $2 / logo, some even worse.

loop · « **Reply #6 on:** March 19, 2012, 14:40 »

Quote from: Gregor909 on March 19, 2012, 13:38

I checked the site, but I can't say I like the concept!
They let designers work hard on designing a logo, but only the one selected gets paid.
Contests are great for students who like to show off their skills and who like the practice and motivation. But for professionals who are trying to make a living, this is slavery.

completely agree

cardmaverick · « **Reply #7 on:** March 19, 2012, 14:58 »

I bet this whole concept will shrivel up and die on its own, unless they modify it. Perhaps designers could submit rough sketch concepts and have them chose from that. Then it's less risky for the designers.

helix7 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 19, 2012, 19:19 »

Quote from: Gregor909 on March 19, 2012, 13:38

...for professionals who are trying to make a living, this is slavery.

I hate to do it, but I have to point out the obvious similarity here between how we're regarding this logo site and how many people regard microstock. I believe many photographers have, in fact, referred to microstock as slavery.

I think microstock can even be considered "spec work" by most definitions. It's work being done without any guarantee of compensation, or only yields very little compensation in some cases.

I'm not saying that these things are the same. Lots of people (me included) make a living in microstock while I have yet to hear of anyone making a living from design contests. But at the root of the business, microstock is sort of speculative, and to some it is professional slavery.

cardmaverick · « **Reply #9 on:** March 19, 2012, 22:36 »

Quote from: helix7 on March 19, 2012, 19:19

Quote from: Gregor909 on March 19, 2012, 13:38
...for professionals who are trying to make a living, this is slavery.

I hate to do it, but I have to point out the obvious similarity here between how we're regarding this logo site and how many people regard microstock. I believe many photographers have, in fact, referred to microstock as slavery.

I think microstock can even be considered "spec work" by most definitions. It's work being done without any guarantee of compensation, or only yields very little compensation in some cases.

I'm not saying that these things are the same. Lots of people (me included) make a living in microstock while I have yet to hear of anyone making a living from design contests. But at the root of the business, microstock is sort of speculative, and to some it is professional slavery.

Were talking about one shot at selling one creation to one person. Microstock is speculative, but we have thousands of possible buyers - not one. That's a huge difference between the two. Microstock is no different than a company that makes jeans and sells them, or any other product.

antistock · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2012, 09:26 »

W-T-F is going on ??

crowdsourcing for logos and design and web sites, open source photography, freebies, rights-grabbing, stolen images on social networks, GPL, CC Licence, Public Domain ...

who's gonna pay for content once there will be billions of free images, articles, videos, and designs all for free ?
and who told these sc-um-bags to work for free or for a pittance ?
how can they justify buying the latest D800 or Mkiii if they can't get paid ?

the internet is definitely going to destroy everything, and creatives are also happy to shoot themselves in the foot as if we weren't already scre-wed by agencies and bad customers !

Microbius · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2012, 10:27 »

I agree that this case is pretty awful for the industry. Designers need to realize that the people commissioning aren't just getting one logo but hundreds of them for a pittance (all the time taken to produce the ones that don't get picked).

I would disagree that crowd sourcing and the internet is generally going to destroy everything. I mean, we crowd source our buyers right? That's why we can make a living licensing work for pennies each time, because we have a huge pool of buyers, rather than having to charge a fortune and sell the work once.

CD123 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2012, 16:50 »

Do not want to rain on anyone's parade, but is this not how logo design has always worked on the internet?

Not a very nice way to earn a living I agree, but someone has been doing it till now, so how is it different now that Fotolia has bought a site which does the same thing as the rest of the industry?

How come everybody is now suddenly up in arms about logo design, which has, as far as I have seen, been been done this way for ages? Am I missing something here?

Gregor909 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2012, 17:43 »

Quote from: CD123 on March 20, 2012, 16:50

Do not want to rain on anyone's parade, but is this not how logo design has always worked on the internet?

Not a very nice way to earn a living I agree, but someone has been doing it till now, so how is it different now that Fotolia has bought a site which does the same thing as the rest of the industry?

How come everybody is now suddenly up in arms about logo design, which has, as far as I have seen, been been done this way for ages? Am I missing something here?

It was new to me, so now I stumbled upon it, I shared my opinion. I don't have a problem with Fotolia acquiring that company.

antistock · « **Reply #14 on:** March 21, 2012, 00:56 »

as if outsourcing wasn't bad news already now we have crowdsourcing and tree hagging hippies working for free and having a blast at that.

add to that the morons supplying 1000s of free web fonts to Google !
as if making a font from scratch was a matter of a few clicks ??
now tell me, google's stock is valued around 100 billion $ ... and these guys are happy giving them freebies !
how * dumb ...

the whole creative world is going to be scr-ewed up once more, let's see what happens when we will reach the bottom of the barrel and the only ones left will be spotty teenagers on their laptops working their ass off for a credit or just for fun.

antistock · « **Reply #15 on:** March 21, 2012, 01:01 »

a practical example : in many newsworthy events (sport, politics, concerts) only a handful of photographers are allowed to get a pass and make photo.

and the reason is very simple : if they allowed anybody in nobody would make a living with that !

now, why instead any creative field where digital is concerned we're flooded by newbies, freebies, and 13 yrs old freetards ? not to mention rampant piracy, unsustainable production costs, and much more.

tdoes · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2012, 08:01 »

Quote from: CD123 on March 20, 2012, 16:50

Do not want to rain on anyone's parade, but is this not how logo design has always worked on the internet?

Not a very nice way to earn a living I agree, but someone has been doing it till now, so how is it different now that Fotolia has bought a site which does the same thing as the rest of the industry?

How come everybody is now suddenly up in arms about logo design, which has, as far as I have seen, been been done this way for ages? Am I missing something here?

Logos have been sold this way through some agencies on the internet for some time but I think the crowdsourcing is worse now! The designer's chances of selling a design after creating it based on this business arrangement decreases. I only sell logo designs through my design business and the clientle steadily builds up through referrals!

CD123 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2012, 08:16 »

Quote from: tdoes on March 21, 2012, 08:01

Logos have been sold this way through some agencies on the internet for some time but I think the crowdsourcing is worse now! The designer's chances of selling a design after creating it based on this business arrangement decreases. I only sell logo designs through my design business and the clientle steadily builds up through referrals!

Sure, but is the complaint not just the same as with selling stock. More entrants than growth in customer base. More and more people trying to earn extra money to get by, while the clientele (business) is itself under financial pressure to spend less. IMO, the problem is therefore not the business model, but rather the state of world economics.

helix7 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2012, 08:28 »

Quote from: antistock on March 20, 2012, 09:26

...crowdsourcing for logos and design and web sites, open source photography, freebies, rights-grabbing, stolen images on social networks, GPL, CC Licence, Public Domain ...

who's gonna pay for content once there will be billions of free images, articles, videos, and designs all for free...

You realize that this stuff has been going on for over a decade now and yet we're all still here, all still able to earn a living. Matter of fact I'll make more money this year between stock work and client work than I've ever made in a calendar year in my life, ever. Design contest participants are undercutting my client work, and yet I'm still in business. All of the free imagery out there has been around longer than microstock and yet I'm making more per month in this business than ever before.

I'm not alone in this. Despite doom-and-gloom scenarios being suggested around the interwebs for as long as I can remember, people continue to persevere and clients/customers are still willing to pay for good work. Free work may slowly increase in quality over time, but so far it hasn't killed off the art/design/photography/illustration industry. Not in 10+ years, and probably not in another 10. Maybe by the time I'm ready to quit it will be a done deal, but we're talking 25+ years from now.

What will always keep things going and keep us earning is the fact that despite there being cheaper (or free) alternatives to everything nowadays, people don't want to wade through mountains of crap to get to some good quality work. I have a new client who could probably find someone to do ad designs for them much cheaper than me, but they come to me because they like my work, they can count on me in a rush, and I'm local so they can meet with me in-person whenever necessary. On the web they can find tons of people doing what I do. They could even get an ad designed through a contest for a couple hundred bucks instead of paying me a couple thousand. And yet they prefer to work with me.

People value good work, and will always pay for it. Free work, crowdsourced design, CC imagery, none of it will kill off anyone's ability to get paid. Unless you're not good at what you do.

cthoman · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2012, 09:28 »

Quote from: helix7 on March 21, 2012, 08:28

You realize that this stuff has been going on for over a decade now and yet we're all still here, all still able to earn a living. Matter of fact I'll make more money this year between stock work and client work than I've ever made in a calendar year in my life, ever. Design contest participants are undercutting my client work, and yet I'm still in business. All of the free imagery out there has been around longer than microstock and yet I'm making more per month in this business than ever before.

I'm not alone in this. Despite doom-and-gloom scenarios being suggested around the interwebs for as long as I can remember, people continue to persevere and clients/customers are still willing to pay for good work. Free work may slowly increase in quality over time, but so far it hasn't killed off the art/design/photography/illustration industry. Not in 10+ years, and probably not in another 10. Maybe by the time I'm ready to quit it will be a done deal, but we're talking 25+ years from now.

What will always keep things going and keep us earning is the fact that despite there being cheaper (or free) alternatives to everything nowadays, people don't want to wade through mountains of crap to get to some good quality work. I have a new client who could probably find someone to do ad designs for them much cheaper than me, but they come to me because they like my work, they can count on me in a rush, and I'm local so they can meet with me in-person whenever necessary. On the web they can find tons of people doing what I do. They could even get an ad designed through a contest for a couple hundred bucks instead of paying me a couple thousand. And yet they prefer to work with me.

People value good work, and will always pay for it. Free work, crowdsourced design, CC imagery, none of it will kill off anyone's ability to get paid. Unless you're not good at what you do.

I totally agree. There's still a big market for paying clients. People are still building web sites, starting companies and coming up with ideas that need artwork and design.

antistock · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2012, 09:57 »

Quote from: cthoman on March 21, 2012, 09:28

Quote from: helix7 on March 21, 2012, 08:28
You realize that this stuff has been going on for over a decade now and yet we're all still here, all still able to earn a living. Matter of fact I'll make more money this year between stock work and client work than I've ever made in a calendar year in my life, ever. Design contest participants are undercutting my client work, and yet I'm still in business. All of the free imagery out there has been around longer than microstock and yet I'm making more per month in this business than ever before.

I'm not alone in this. Despite doom-and-gloom scenarios being suggested around the interwebs for as long as I can remember, people continue to persevere and clients/customers are still willing to pay for good work. Free work may slowly increase in quality over time, but so far it hasn't killed off the art/design/photography/illustration industry. Not in 10+ years, and probably not in another 10. Maybe by the time I'm ready to quit it will be a done deal, but we're talking 25+ years from now.

What will always keep things going and keep us earning is the fact that despite there being cheaper (or free) alternatives to everything nowadays, people don't want to wade through mountains of crap to get to some good quality work. I have a new client who could probably find someone to do ad designs for them much cheaper than me, but they come to me because they like my work, they can count on me in a rush, and I'm local so they can meet with me in-person whenever necessary. On the web they can find tons of people doing what I do. They could even get an ad designed through a contest for a couple hundred bucks instead of paying me a couple thousand. And yet they prefer to work with me.

People value good work, and will always pay for it. Free work, crowdsourced design, CC imagery, none of it will kill off anyone's ability to get paid. Unless you're not good at what you do.

I totally agree. There's still a big market for paying clients. People are still building web sites, starting companies and coming up with ideas that need artwork and design.

excellent analysis by Helix.
yet, as a technical guy who was coding software in his past life, i'm a bit more worried, the technology to break the cost barriers and remove any middlemen is already there but it's still cumbersome and unfriendly and expensive, but in a few years it could be a snap to shoot, upload, edit, sell, or give for free to an audience of billions ... give it one step at a time and in 5 yrs anybody and anything they do (even just clicking a link) could end up in a gigantic worldwide "marketplace" where due to extreme competition the free s-h-it will take the biggest slice of the pie, see the sad fate of most of Android's apps for instance compared to the ones running on IOS.

however we look at the situation, it's not a rosy picture.
on the other side, as Helix pointed out, what really matters is your sales skills and nothing else and i fully agree.

jamirae · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2012, 14:47 »

makes you wonder if iStock will finally be launching their Logo program now that one of their biggest competitors is in the logo business.

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Author Topic: Fotolia Purchases WiLogo (Read 8170 times)

leaf

cthoman

lagereek

RacePhoto

Gregor909

ThomasAmby

loop

cardmaverick

helix7

cardmaverick

antistock

Microbius

CD123

Gregor909

antistock

antistock

tdoes

CD123

helix7

cthoman

antistock

jamirae

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