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Author Topic: How and why are earning decreasing at Fotolia (chart)?  (Read 16369 times)

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« on: February 02, 2014, 08:23 »
+13
My portfolio has over 24k images at FTL. I am still uploading new images every week but my income is decreasing since years now. While it is not the case with other agencies which are still be able to occasionally reach a BME.
I don't know what is the problem with Fotolia - any idea? My earnings are back to the level of mid 2008. That time I had 2-3k images online while now I have nearly 10 times more.

Anyway, there is a psychological level (a certain amount of monthly income) when my income falls below that I'll stop uploading to FTL for ever. I am very close to this. If the tendecy visible on the attached chart continues I will reach it this year.

Does anyone have an idea why is this?


« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2014, 08:34 »
+12
This has been discussed here several times.  Unlike sites like Shutterstock, FT have made it harder for a lot of their bigger contributors to sustain their earnings.  I have a much smaller portfolio but a similar looking chart.  With lower earnings and the way they have cut commissions several times in the past, I have no motivation to upload.  I do upload there occasionally but nothing like I used to.

They lost several big contributors who decided to go exclusive with istock.  I don't really understand their strategy, as they haven't been able to close the gap between them and Shutterstock in the earnings poll here.  If there's only room for a few big microstock sites in the future, it looks like FT wont be one of them.

« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2014, 17:03 »
+5
I believe it is mainly down to FT's search algorithm. It appears to give no weighting whatsoever to the most relevant keywords and also heavily promotes new files (and actually appears to penalise popular files).

This means that your older best-sellers, the ones that have historically earned you the most, have disappeared so far down the default sort-order that they are rarely seen by buyers.

It also means that most searches are littered with irrelevant images (due to all the keyword spamming and/or poor translation from other languages) which must be losing FT customers. Personally I wouldn't dream of buying at FT for this reason alone (although there are many other reasons too) because the search results are simply woeful in comparison to FT's main competitors.

« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2014, 17:20 »
+6
It is possible that FT may have decided that it benefits financially from organising the search in a way that penalises successful early contributors. I can see how the logic for that might work but I really don't know if they calculate things in that way.

« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2014, 18:14 »
+1
NitorPhoto when did you reach emerald? And did you raise prices? If so, when?
I am asking cause I suspect there might be a correspondence between raising pricing resulting in fewer downloads and consequently pushing you further in the search.
Of course I may be wrong and hope these are just my dark suspicions.

« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2014, 04:27 »
0
NitorPhoto when did you reach emerald? And did you raise prices? If so, when?
I am asking cause I suspect there might be a correspondence between raising pricing resulting in fewer downloads and consequently pushing you further in the search.
Of course I may be wrong and hope these are just my dark suspicions.

Niserin,

Yes, I have raised prices and I did it as soon as I was able to. It was many years ago, before they made it 10 times more difficult. I do not remember the exact date but it was much much before the decrease and even before the long increase visible on my graph. I think it was 2008 or 2009.

« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2014, 04:35 »
0
Thank you Nitor for your answer. At least it refutes my presumption.
Wish you best of luck in spite of the current trend!

grey1

    This user is banned.
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2014, 04:59 »
0
Not here. I am now close to Emerald and I find FT very steady, same as DT. Steady earners. Although same as with SS. Never upload so that reviewing takes place over a weekend. Just a tip.

« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2014, 07:23 »
0
A little bit of speculation from me:

One factor determining search ranking may be views to sales ratio (I think that has been talked about before, though nobody outside FT will know for sure), thus files with many views compared to sales may get punished.

A while ago (two years? can't remember correctly) FT introduced a change to their frontend and began to show big previews when you move your mouse over a thumbnail. That allows customers to decide better without clicking on an image thumbnail - and will certainly drastically reduce the number of views overall.

All images that were uploaded after that change will have a significantly better view to sales ratio (compared to old bestsellers).

If this theory is right, that might explain why portfolios with a big number of old bestsellers seem to suffer a lot.

At least that may be one factor in the game...

« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2014, 08:56 »
+10
lets focus here guys, there is no excuse for this serious decrease, we are talking about a 23k portfolio with 1600 files uploaded on the latest year and 4k in the last 2 years, something is "wrong" and I believe its not on NitorPhoto side

stocked

« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2014, 10:16 »
+8
lets focus here guys, there is no excuse for this serious decrease, we are talking about a 23k portfolio with 1600 files uploaded on the latest year and 4k in the last 2 years, something is "wrong" and I believe its not on NitorPhoto side
I have to agree as a very early contributor to Fotolia it's obvious to me that Fotolia is overall in a strong decline. They do cover their downtrend by promoting exclusive artists, known bloggers and new files in general that leads to the point that some very few people have exceptional results with them as well as newbies have good results with them as  they do have a far bigger percentage of new files so they rave about them. But the truth is they are loosing market share, in their strongest market (Germany) I have seen many newspapers and magazines that used before mainly Fotolia switching to Shutterstock in the last two years.

« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2014, 10:34 »
+1
Well maybe Nitor uploaded too much, however nonsense it may sound. I've noticed that when I upload a lot of files at once, I'm having some slower days. The new files might push your bestsellers further in your port and consequently in the main search.

stocked

« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2014, 11:01 »
+2
Well maybe Nitor uploaded too much, however nonsense it may sound. I've noticed that when I upload a lot of files at once, I'm having some slower days. The new files might push your bestsellers further in your port and consequently in the main search.
Sure Yuri Arcurs, AndresR etc. they all uploaded waayyy too much to Fotolia that is the reason they gave Fotolia the boot and joined IS exclusivity  ::).

« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2014, 11:20 »
0
Well maybe Nitor uploaded too much, however nonsense it may sound. I've noticed that when I upload a lot of files at once, I'm having some slower days. The new files might push your bestsellers further in your port and consequently in the main search.

That might be exactly true.

« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2014, 06:14 »
+1
Thx for the answers and ideas for everyone.
Upoading too much, punishment of big contributors, bad search algorithm, overall decline?
If you are right guys I don't know what . am I doing at Fotolia still?
I give them a very last chance until the end of 2014.

grey1

    This user is banned.
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2014, 06:44 »
0
I can not see anything wrong with promoting new files since they are the sellers of tomorrow. I mean we all know of another giant who will give new files a 5 sec exposure and if they dont sell, well then they are just history. Hobsons choice really.

lisafx

« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2014, 10:20 »
+6
Not here. I am now close to Emerald and I find FT very steady, same as DT. Steady earners. Although same as with SS. Never upload so that reviewing takes place over a weekend. Just a tip.

Well "close to emerald" is the key, isn't it?  Let me know if you are still happy with your Fotolia earnings once you have been emerald for a few months.

« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2014, 10:48 »
0
I can not see anything wrong with promoting new files since they are the sellers of tomorrow. I mean we all know of another giant who will give new files a 5 sec exposure and if they dont sell, well then they are just history. Hobsons choice really.

Grey1 banned already? That was quick!

« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2014, 10:48 »
0
Fotolia earnings have been tanking for me since 2012, just the same.  Bigstock and Depositphotos earnings are beginning to outweigh them. 

It's all just ebb and flow, this is exactly why you never put all your eggs in the same basket.  One marketplace will decrease, another may slightly increase... sadly it seems that they are all slightly decreasing at the same time.  Time to find more baskets and to make more eggs :)

Ron

« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2014, 13:44 »
0
I can not see anything wrong with promoting new files since they are the sellers of tomorrow. I mean we all know of another giant who will give new files a 5 sec exposure and if they dont sell, well then they are just history. Hobsons choice really.

Grey1 banned already? That was quick!
He got his ban on SS lifted today, so now he is posting on SS again. My god, its like a disease you cant get rid off. What happened to life time bans? If you tell someone to f*ck off on a forum and constantly insult his kid you deserve a life time ban!

« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2014, 13:53 »
+1
I can not see anything wrong with promoting new files since they are the sellers of tomorrow. I mean we all know of another giant who will give new files a 5 sec exposure and if they dont sell, well then they are just history. Hobsons choice really.

Grey1 banned already? That was quick!
He got his ban on SS lifted today, so now he is posting on SS again. My god, its like a disease you cant get rid off. What happened to life time bans? If you tell someone to f*ck off on a forum and constantly insult his kid you deserve a life time ban!

come on SS! ::)

« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2014, 21:34 »
+1
I can not see anything wrong with promoting new files since they are the sellers of tomorrow. I mean we all know of another giant who will give new files a 5 sec exposure and if they dont sell, well then they are just history. Hobsons choice really.

Grey1 banned already? That was quick!
He got his ban on SS lifted today, so now he is posting on SS again. My god, its like a disease you cant get rid off. What happened to life time bans? If you tell someone to f*ck off on a forum and constantly insult his kid you deserve a life time ban!

I have a lifetime ban, so they exist.

OM

« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2014, 21:41 »
+4
Contrary to popular opinion, FT is getting better for me and appears to be increasing with each month since around September 2013. I've known the good times (up until, say, 2+ years ago) and the bad times when earnings declined by 70+% and all my best sellers just suddenly dropped from the search radar and never sold again.
Earnings are still short of their previous peak despite a 50% increase in port size but they are noticeably on the up (>80% on pre-September levels). I haven't worked out the recent ratio of subs to dl's but overall (5 years) it's still at 60% dl to 40% subs and it doesn't seem to change much.
FT is often a bit strange. Some days I get nothing but subs and the next, nothing but dl's. Don't get many rejections  at FT either and they often accept stuff that SS rejects which goes on to become a good seller at FT. I have no idea why but FT seems to be working for me presently.  :)

« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2014, 15:33 »
+3
I experienced a drop in sales (and also in the 7 days rank - my relative position) when I got to Gold. Still working my way to emerald, but I already slipped from my 100-120 7 day rank position to the current 290. It's the only site where my sales are dropping significantly despite uploading regularly.

« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2014, 02:18 »
+11
After my earnings suddenly dropped 90% in 6 months, I walked away from Fotolia.  I refuse to support a company with my images that doesn't support me.

Dook

« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2014, 05:18 »
+10
I said it before- I'm afraid they are giving higher ranked contirbutors bad search treatment. This is a theory, but based on the fact that my earnings started decreasing when I became Emerald.

« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2014, 09:31 »
+3
Problems besetting contributors may also have something to do with RPD.  The lowered commissions in recent memory, the push to subscription sales, and the more recent endeavors such as Dollar club, are all cases in point.

It should be interesting to evaluate how much revenue decline comes from reduced downloads versus reduction in RPD.

But should one blame Fotolia alone!  In a general manner of speaking, the downward slide in micro stock contributor revenue is spread across number of agencies - all desperately chasing clients with the belief that price discounting (under different names) will bring them more market share and greater success.  In my opinion nothing could be further from the truth.  All that seems to be getting accomplished (with great success) is an overall shift down in revenue and contributor share.  If this trend continues, one can foresee the day when contributors will be left without incentive to upload, some agencies would close shop due lack of business, and a select (very) few would garner more market share through smarter strategies than rate dumping. 

OM

« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2014, 15:56 »
0
Contrary to my previous post of 2 months ago, sales seem to be sliding again; not seriously but a little. FT has been devoting a fair bit of promotional effort to their instant collection over the past couple of months so that may be detracting from their efforts in the general RF area. But I have no real idea if that is the case.
On a positive note, uptake/dl's of newly uploaded work does seem to be more positive than SS at present.

« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2014, 14:55 »
+3
Problems besetting contributors may also have something to do with RPD.  The lowered commissions in recent memory, the push to subscription sales, and the more recent endeavors such as Dollar club, are all cases in point.

It should be interesting to evaluate how much revenue decline comes from reduced downloads versus reduction in RPD.



The green graph shows my monthly number of downloads and the red line is showing earnings. The peak for both values was more or less when I became 'gold'. So unfortunately, at least in my case, it's not just a matter of changing RPD. It's also not an industry wide problem since on Dreamstime or Shutterstock my sales are pretty steady. If it was just me I wouldn't say a thing, but so many people are complaining about this, there must be some explanation for the drop in revenue.

« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2014, 15:45 »
+3
My portfolio has over 24k images at FTL. I am still uploading new images every week but my income is decreasing since years now. While it is not the case with other agencies which are still be able to occasionally reach a BME.
I don't know what is the problem with Fotolia - any idea? My earnings are back to the level of mid 2008. That time I had 2-3k images online while now I have nearly 10 times more.

Anyway, there is a psychological level (a certain amount of monthly income) when my income falls below that I'll stop uploading to FTL for ever. I am very close to this. If the tendecy visible on the attached chart continues I will reach it this year.

Does anyone have an idea why is this?

My port is 15 times smaller than yours but I have similar pattern as you.
Seams that I earned much more money with 1/5 of my port size than today, grrrrrrrrrr


« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2014, 19:03 »
+3
I don't have a graph but I am pretty sure my earnings on FT look very similar to OP's.
My earnings are now less than 1/3 of what they used to be with less images in my portfolio. I was emerald long time ago (now sapphire with over 14K images) but I don't think it has anything to do with such dramatic drop in earnings. I think they just lost some market share at some point, that's it. Which they are trying to recapture it seems with their "dollar club" idea.

« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2014, 20:27 »
-3
my sales look similar bad in the last few months. I will stay with fotolia. They hate my images (bad ranking of my images), but FT does not this much things i dont like..
IS: free images for personal blog;
depo:shotshop-sales; and many more bad things;
Shutt: Full Size for only 25cent.

and FT pays in .

« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2014, 00:06 »
0
I don't know if this is any relevant to this, but one of my best sellers was red hot for the first 6 months (~500 downloads) and then all of a sudden it dropped overnight almost to zero. Now it has like 50 downloads for 12 months.

I've seen this 6-month-doomswitch also with my other images on fotolia. For me Fotolia is a great earner, but when the overnight drop hits, it's really killing my hairline.

« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2014, 10:47 »
+7
I just look my RPI on Fotolia, if year 2012 is output value 100%, then:

2012 100%
2013 87%
2014 38%

Fotolia is going fast down.. if this year is very bad.. what to do.. go back.. opt-in DPC.. just kidding, absolute not :)

I also notice that, I don't remember last time when was 7 day rank worse than overall rank. Now it's worse.

« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2014, 12:05 »
+1
i thought uh very bad for you. so i had a look at mine. The same ..  :D
And i doubled my portfolio in 2014 to close to 6000 images.

« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2014, 15:49 »
0
Isn't 2012 around the time they cut commissions / prices - can't remember but that might be a factor for the OP.  Otherwise, with 24K images, the relative increase in port size would be small compared to most where dropping sales would be masked a bit by having more product on sale.

« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2014, 06:28 »
+6
I'm having a deep dive also @ FT. Constantly uploading, but still going down. I assume that's happening because of their "6-month kill" that is killing my bestsellers. Now we are talking about files that have been downloaded 1000-2000 times a piece! First sales are consistent 10 dl's per day and then overnight it's hardly one per day.

Have anyone else seen that after six months of uploading a file it just disappears from the "Relevance"? I've seen that for few of my files. It is not as important to be a leader in "Downloads" that it's to be in "Relevance".

I think that cut down is way too harsh. I understand that fotolia wants to push new content in front of the buyers and yes, it's also good for new contributors, but if we look at it from the quality perspective then I think their "Relevance" isn't pushing the best ones. The ones that really has the best quality and sales potential.

I'm sure that fotolia (and us) is losing huge amounts of revenue with their out-of-date search. I can say this because when overnight-kill beats up my bestsellers then those views are heading to files that aren't even close to the quality I have. I'm not being selfish here. Even my ass can see that.

« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2014, 07:57 »
+6
I'm having a deep dive also @ FT. Constantly uploading, but still going down. I assume that's happening because of their "6-month kill" that is killing my bestsellers. Now we are talking about files that have been downloaded 1000-2000 times a piece! First sales are consistent 10 dl's per day and then overnight it's hardly one per day.

Have anyone else seen that after six months of uploading a file it just disappears from the "Relevance"? I've seen that for few of my files. It is not as important to be a leader in "Downloads" that it's to be in "Relevance".

I think that cut down is way too harsh. I understand that fotolia wants to push new content in front of the buyers and yes, it's also good for new contributors, but if we look at it from the quality perspective then I think their "Relevance" isn't pushing the best ones. The ones that really has the best quality and sales potential.

I'm sure that fotolia (and us) is losing huge amounts of revenue with their out-of-date search. I can say this because when overnight-kill beats up my bestsellers then those views are heading to files that aren't even close to the quality I have. I'm not being selfish here. Even my ass can see that.

If you can afford it, avoid them like the plague. They are leading the destruction of micro stock.

« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2014, 10:31 »
+4

I'm on pace for my worst month at FT in years. And I'm kind of ok with that. I'm seeing growth at places like Creative Market, so this kind of shift is a good thing. Up with the good companies, down with the bad ones. I like that trend.

« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2014, 11:02 »
+1
Yep that would be the correct move Mantis :) With current curve it's zero monthly earnings before 2015 :D


I'm on pace for my worst month at FT in years. And I'm kind of ok with that. I'm seeing growth at places like Creative Market, so this kind of shift is a good thing. Up with the good companies, down with the bad ones. I like that trend.

That sounds a very good direction indeed. I'm ok with Fotolia fading to opacity 0% and other companies gaining their place.

« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2014, 17:00 »
+6
DPC

dbvirago

« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2014, 17:46 »
+2
My chart looks pretty much the same as the OP, except my peak was in '09, and it's been clawing backup up since it bottomed out in December

« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2014, 21:20 »
0
What got my goat, is a $1.35 sub for a video. I can say with a lot of certainty that I am not going to sell video for $1.35.

« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2014, 23:01 »
+2
FT is not doing well

Hobostocker

    This user is banned.
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2014, 23:29 »
-3
Grey1 banned already? That was quick!

and also LisaFX, hahaha :)

Hobostocker

    This user is banned.
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2014, 23:30 »
0
guys, the market is very stable.

it's for contributors that there's a declining trend in sales due to oversupply, the agencies are selling fine.

solutions ? none apart doubling or tripling your portfolio.

OM

« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2014, 10:45 »
+3
I'm having a deep dive also @ FT. Constantly uploading, but still going down. I assume that's happening because of their "6-month kill" that is killing my bestsellers. Now we are talking about files that have been downloaded 1000-2000 times a piece! First sales are consistent 10 dl's per day and then overnight it's hardly one per day.

Have anyone else seen that after six months of uploading a file it just disappears from the "Relevance"? I've seen that for few of my files. It is not as important to be a leader in "Downloads" that it's to be in "Relevance".

I think that cut down is way too harsh. I understand that fotolia wants to push new content in front of the buyers and yes, it's also good for new contributors, but if we look at it from the quality perspective then I think their "Relevance" isn't pushing the best ones. The ones that really has the best quality and sales potential.

I'm sure that fotolia (and us) is losing huge amounts of revenue with their out-of-date search. I can say this because when overnight-kill beats up my bestsellers then those views are heading to files that aren't even close to the quality I have. I'm not being selfish here. Even my ass can see that.

That's exactly what happens at FT and has been going on for a few years now (the overnight kill-switch. Hero to zero within a day). Best sellers of mine do remain best sellers for longer than 6 months (about 12 months) but I've never had a best seller greater than 500. I wondered how long it would take for sales to drop after opting out of DPC and for me it looks like it's around 6 months. Could be due to summer slowdown but if sales don't improve by end September, I'll wait for payout and delete everything that sells/sold. They can have the rest forever!

« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2014, 11:58 »
+1
FT search is the most unstable of all. You can have a file on the top and if you upload another image of the same subject, the new image reaches the top without even selling and the top selling image goes to the second or third page. My new files sell greatly and the best sellers all of a sudden disappear and never sell again.


 

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