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Author Topic: Great Letter  (Read 2869 times)

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« on: February 16, 2013, 01:51 »
0
Thought this letter was right on point.  Aimed at the music industry, but could apply to many.

http://christiegoodwin.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/open-letter.html


Poncke

« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 02:00 »
-4
Its not a great letter at all.
Quote
every Tom, Dick and Harry having a digital compact camera or a cameraphone, my profession has become a bit of a joke. Because anyone can take a picture, right? Now let me burst your bubble right there. Yes, every fool wearing yellow socks can take pictures just like every box on 4 wheels can drive and just like every broadband provider can offer you the internet.

I cannot stand it when they bring up that argument because we all know its simply not true. There are as many talented amateur photographers with proper equipment and amazing images, as there are professional photographers that cant produce more then the average snapshot and have no clue about what they are doing. Pro and amateur says nothing these days.

And the fact that she is throwing out these insults makes her a petty person.


« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 02:18 by Poncke »

« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 02:39 »
+1
In a way I couldn't agree more with the writer of the letter, over here sometimes client's don't want to pay for photos, I do this part-time so I'm not professional or amateur, I'm more a middle term and I feel the bite of both worlds. In a way I shoot when I want and I try to enjoy the most of it (That's were we all started) and in another stance I have to provide to my family because Portugal is in deep....you know the rest... and one job is not enough. So when I try to make a living out of it I get more door slam's that I, living in a "civilized" world would expect to, due to customer's that are unwiling to pay for something that his friend with an Iphone can "do" and I quote "Even better...". Some businessmen are very selfish, they want easy profit's and want us to deliver that "image" for free.

In this letter she addresses to the music world, but how many times we find ourselves in a similar situation? How many times do we have to show our serious attitude to ignorant people that diminish our work, almost entitling it ridiculous work and refuse to pay for it?

Unfortunaly this is the world we live, with so many small people that do not appreciate the vision and art of others. I do wonder if they, for being so "small" if they don't envy the artists and "treat" them this way so they can feel better. Oh psychcology...

Poncke

« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2013, 02:49 »
0
For the people disagreeing with me, come out and tell me why? I am merely pointing out her petty insults, and fallacies. If you need to stoop to that level, its not a great letter.

I am not saying she doesnt have a point on the free images that might be damaging her business.

Microbius

« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2013, 03:04 »
+1
Its not a great letter at all.
Quote
every Tom, Dick and Harry having a digital compact camera or a cameraphone, my profession has become a bit of a joke. Because anyone can take a picture, right? Now let me burst your bubble right there. Yes, every fool wearing yellow socks can take pictures just like every box on 4 wheels can drive and just like every broadband provider can offer you the internet.

I cannot stand it when they bring up that argument because we all know its simply not true. There are as many talented amateur photographers with proper equipment and amazing images, as there are professional photographers that cant produce more then the average snapshot and have no clue about what they are doing. Pro and amateur says nothing these days.

And the fact that she is throwing out these insults makes her a petty person.

I don't think she says anything about amateur vs professional. She is saying something about quality, and having  to pay for it. There's lots of photographers, but not many good ones is what she's saying. If you want good pay. Some of the good ones many be amateurs, it does't really touch on that.

Poncke

« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2013, 03:08 »
-4
She doesnt need to use the exact words to say the same. If she is addressing professionals as well, calling them what she did, its even worse, attacking her own.

« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2013, 03:13 »
+3
No, I don't think it's a great letter. It's more like a rant  ::). Hope she feels better now that it is all off her chest...

« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2013, 05:42 »
+2
Its not a great letter at all.
Quote
every Tom, Dick and Harry having a digital compact camera or a cameraphone, my profession has become a bit of a joke. Because anyone can take a picture, right? Now let me burst your bubble right there. Yes, every fool wearing yellow socks can take pictures just like every box on 4 wheels can drive and just like every broadband provider can offer you the internet.

I cannot stand it when they bring up that argument because we all know its simply not true. There are as many talented amateur photographers with proper equipment and amazing images, as there are professional photographers that cant produce more then the average snapshot and have no clue about what they are doing. Pro and amateur says nothing these days.

And the fact that she is throwing out these insults makes her a petty person.

You're missing the whole point of the letter.  She's not dissing amateur photographers.  She's simply saying that, as a professional photographer, she should be paid for her services,  just as you would expect to be paid for the work that you do at your job.

Poncke

« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2013, 06:04 »
-2
Its not a great letter at all.
Quote
every Tom, Dick and Harry having a digital compact camera or a cameraphone, my profession has become a bit of a joke. Because anyone can take a picture, right? Now let me burst your bubble right there. Yes, every fool wearing yellow socks can take pictures just like every box on 4 wheels can drive and just like every broadband provider can offer you the internet.

I cannot stand it when they bring up that argument because we all know its simply not true. There are as many talented amateur photographers with proper equipment and amazing images, as there are professional photographers that cant produce more then the average snapshot and have no clue about what they are doing. Pro and amateur says nothing these days.

And the fact that she is throwing out these insults makes her a petty person.

You're missing the whole point of the letter.  She's not dissing amateur photographers.  She's simply saying that, as a professional photographer, she should be paid for her services,  just as you would expect to be paid for the work that you do at your job.

I am not missing any point, as you can read in an previous post. I am just lifting that nonsense argument which is utter BS.
And its not a letter, its a rant. Do you think anyone addressed in that rant, will take her serious like that? She at least should compose herself.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 06:07 by Poncke »

« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2013, 08:53 »
+2
There are as many talented amateur photographers with proper equipment and amazing images, as there are professional photographers that cant produce more then the average snapshot and have no clue about what they are doing. Pro and amateur says nothing these days.

I have to disagree. If a pro photographer has managed to make a living for years, his/her images must have some qualities his/her customers want and need. Of course being a pro photographer 50% is photography and 50% business. But without the "business" there isn't photography.
I personally don't know any full-time professional photographer that have been in the business for years and delivers only (bad) snapshots. Do you, really?

There are plenty of good amateurs too, but they are free to shoot anything they want and only show the good images. A pro must always deliver, even if the subjects and conditions are far from ideal.

I'm a pro. In my opinion 50% of my work sucks, 5% are good images and 45% are "OK". If I was an amateur I would have the freedom to show only the best 5%. Still, even my worst 50% have been "usable" images.

Poncke

« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2013, 08:58 »
0
Thats not what I am saying. Dont you agree that there are pros that svck and amateurs that deliver A grade stuff?

« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2013, 11:08 »
+6
I got bored reading it.  It wasn't very well written, and there were lots of issues with grammar and punctuation.  Her point was buried in a blanket of words.  Also, I'm not sure where she came up with this : "Did you know that by law it is forbidden for a business to sell goods or services under the norm value?"

« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2013, 11:56 »
0
I got bored reading it.  It wasn't very well written, and there were lots of issues with grammar and punctuation.  Her point was buried in a blanket of words.  Also, I'm not sure where she came up with this : "Did you know that by law it is forbidden for a business to sell goods or services under the norm value?"

She lost me after the first paragraph too.  Much too wordy with an excessive amount of examples.  She could have made her point better and faster with about a quarter of the words used.  Looks like she's British so the law she quoted may be British law.

« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2013, 12:15 »
+1
Okay.  When titling this thread "Great Letter",  I wasn't referring to her grammar, punctuation, and the number of words that she used.  I was referring to the point that she made in that photographers should be paid for their services.

ShadySue

« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2013, 12:29 »
0
Also, I'm not sure where she came up with this : "Did you know that by law it is forbidden for a business to sell goods or services under the norm value?"
I don't even know what it means, but maybe it's a law somewhere. Not here.

« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2013, 12:35 »
0
Okay.  When titling this thread "Great Letter",  I wasn't referring to her grammar, punctuation, and the number of words that she used.  I was referring to the point that she made in that photographers should be paid for their services.

Well, then it's a great ( and obvious ) point.  But not really a great letter.  If I was one of the people that was targeted to, I would have skipped reading it.

tab62

« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2013, 12:50 »
0
She went off the main point too many times in my eyes. Very negative tone without any positive take a ways or action plan addressing the issues at hand.

 When I write a detailed paper the first thing my boss asks me is where is my executive summary page-  and that is all he wants to read- which clearly spells out my briefing and stays on the main point with a course of action.

gillian

  • *Gillian*
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2013, 18:11 »
0
I got bored reading it.  It wasn't very well written, and there were lots of issues with grammar and punctuation.  Her point was buried in a blanket of words.  Also, I'm not sure where she came up with this : "Did you know that by law it is forbidden for a business to sell goods or services under the norm value?"

ditto, I thought it was poorly written and rambled all over the place. (I also couldn't handle the italics, but that's just being petty.) :)

I understand there is drama going on in that world (music/entertainment) regarding payment and copyright and so forth, it can't be easy as I'm sure there are plenty of freshly graduated photographers (both talented and not so) who are willing to work for free and hand over copyright. But hey, if it reaches out to people and they get the message, then great.

« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2013, 03:31 »
+1
Writer is simply asking to pay. She is frustrated with the way companies work.  Leave emotional parts and pieces, her letter stands good for things going in music industry.

« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2013, 07:07 »
+1
"I'm not a woman of many words..."  Actually, it seems as if she is.  That would be okay if she used the right words.  The point that's she's trying to put across is a good one but she's all over the shop mixing employment law, accounting, economics and tax evasion all in one hit lol.  I'm referring to this bit here:

Quote
But unfortunately more and more photographers these day are expected to work for free. Which in this day and age is of course totally unacceptable. Why do I find this unacceptable? Well I'm glad you asked.
To start with there is the matter of legality. Did you know that by law it is forbidden for a business to sell goods or services under the norm value? Ask your accountant, if you don't believe me. As a business you shouldn't have people work for free because that could get you in a whole lot of trouble. It is considered a form of tax avoidance.


With regards to the "norm value", first off, although I'm an accountant and know what it means, you typically wouldn't ask your accountant about this, you would ask an economist, a lawyer... or refer to the World Trade Organisation.  I believe the point she was trying to highlight when she mentioned 'norm value' was 'price fixing'.  However 'normal value' relates to 'dumping'. 

If anyone want's to understand what normal value and dumping means, in laymen's terms, it's basically a predatory pricing practice that can be used to drive out the competition in foreign trade.  For example, let's say I'm a manufacturer of SD cards in China.  Let's say the cost per card is $2 and the normal value (the sale price in China) is $4 per card.  Now let's say the average cost of the cards produced in the US were $5 per card and sold for an average of $10.  If I exported the cards to the US at cost price, then this may be considered 'dumping' them in order to try to kill off the competition in the US market making me a monopoly. 

That's what 'normal value' relates to so she's a bit off there.  Where she writes "by law" she is also wrong.  Dumping is not illegal but it is discouraged using anti-dumping practices, eg. increasing import taxes to protect local markets.

What this woman wrote isn't a good letter but as others have mentioned, it is a good rant.  What she wrote is structured very poorly and is even a little ridiculous at times.  However putting my artistic hat back on, if she focused on keeping it simple and passionate, instead of trying to come off as an intellectual, she may have had a better response to it.  But you know what, she's not a writer, an accountant, an economist or a lawyer... she's a photographer so I forgive her. 

If every photographer wrote a letter like that, even if it was poorly written, maybe more people will start to pay attention with the issues we're all facing... which are horrible and real.

« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2013, 07:32 »
+2
Thought this letter was right on point.  Aimed at the music industry, but could apply to many.

http://christiegoodwin.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/open-letter.html


Not much of a letter.  Just whining about giving away images.  If she is a professional then she should simply not give them away.  If her pictures are good enough they will pay for them.  If not then maybe they just don't need top quality images.  Either way it is up to her.

lff

« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2013, 08:44 »
+1
Although not well written, as others have already noted, I completely agree with what she says.


 

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