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Author Topic: Photographing cows or other farm scenery could put you in jail under Senate bill  (Read 8239 times)

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« on: February 28, 2011, 13:45 »
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 13:47 »
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yikes. I'm glad that isn't a law in Ontario, Canada.

« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 13:52 »
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It isn't law in Florida yet either. I have to believe that the sheer stupidity of it will mean it'll never actually become law. If the concern is undercover videos from people on the property posing as a farm worker, then deal with the deception involved with that - to the extent that existing laws don't already provide adequate relief.

The urge to be seen to be "doing something" that drives politicians to such actions is so damaging...

« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 14:04 »
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I don't have an issue with undercover reporting on abuses like that.  How else would we all know what is going on in the world if it is all hidden away?

« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 14:10 »
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I don't have an issue with undercover reporting on abuses like that.  How else would we all know what is going on in the world if it is all hidden away?

Exactly. I think you might struggle to find a jury willing to convict someone who discovered something of public concern too. Enforcement would be another resource-heavy issue for anything other than the genuine serious cases.

« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 14:11 »
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Watch the movie "Food Inc." and you will know why things like this happen.. There are many places that even talking bad about the Beef industry or Beef farmers will put you in Jail and or HEAVY fines.. It is lobbying of the multi billion dollar Food industry to poloticians with large sums of money.. Also if you llok at many of the large head of government oversight offices like EPA, USDA etc. they are all ex CEO's or executives of large food corporations.. Now tell me that isn't a contradiction in public interest.. Why do you think they had such an about face in the Naming of the "Swine Flu"? Because the Pork Industry made such a fuss over it that they were forced to name it H1N1..

« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 16:00 »
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I don't have an issue with undercover reporting on abuses like that.  How else would we all know what is going on in the world if it is all hidden away?

Exactly. I think you might struggle to find a jury willing to convict someone who discovered something of public concern too. Enforcement would be another resource-heavy issue for anything other than the genuine serious cases.

great point. I didn't think of the social responsibility angle. and you're right, good luck enforcing it.

« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 16:08 »
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I don't have an issue with undercover reporting on abuses like that.  How else would we all know what is going on in the world if it is all hidden away?

Exactly. I think you might struggle to find a jury willing to convict someone who discovered something of public concern too. Enforcement would be another resource-heavy issue for anything other than the genuine serious cases.

great point. I didn't think of the social responsibility angle. and you're right, good luck enforcing it.


You would be surprised at the money spent by big food industry to enforce stupid stuff like this..  The little farmers won't care or won't bother, but big companies will most definately prosecute if they have the ability..

« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 16:20 »
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is Jeb Bush still around down there? bah, he's probably too drunk to care anyways
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 19:55 by SNP »

Uncle Pete

  • Evidence please...

« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 19:47 »
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Somehow the whole thing starts back on the Chicken Ranch?

Simpson Farms, Located on 210 acres
in Trilby, Florida, has approximately 1.25
million chickens producing over 21 million
eggs a year under contract for Tampa Farm
Service, Inc. Floridas second largest egg
producer.


This guy's name keeps coming up related to the law and the story.

The main point of this is, the law is probably unconstitutional and an embarrassment to anyone connected with it. Poorly conceived idea.

lisafx

« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 20:12 »
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How utterly (udderly?) assinine!  As a Floridian, I will be contacting my state senator.  

Considering that tourism, and NOT farming, is our biggest industry, it's crazy to tell those tourists they will have to put their cameras away when driving through the picturesque agricultural areas of the state.   ::)

Just wrote my state senator.  Although I am in the Tampa Bay area, Jim Norman isn't it (thank God!) but I guess my guy probably works with him pretty closely.

I doubt there's any way this can be implemented, but it wouldn't be the first time some crazy sh*t was passed when it seemed impossible...
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 20:48 by lisafx »

« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 22:09 »
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Florida was my home before coming to Russia; it will be my home when i return in july.  Count me as one that will be going to all the farms and taking pictures of fields, cows, chickens, pigs, goats, et al.  If they pass this bill, they can get the cuffs ready; I am willing to be the first arrested; I agree with Lisa, this is UDDEELY ASSININE

« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2011, 22:30 »
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As an American citizen, this doesn't surprise me at all. The USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world. One in every 100 Americans is in jail or prison. We house 25% of the world's prisoners, yet we only account for 5% of the world's population. Incarceration is big business in the US, and many people are getting rich off of it. We have for profit prisons now, and prisons are the primary employer for many communities. The Drug War keeps the system supplied with a steady flow of 'customers'. Meanwhile the expense is bankrupting state's budgets.

Our politicians are bought off, and the system is rigged. This is not a Democracy, it's a Corporatocracy. Now Big Food is in on the act, they don't want the world to witness the horrendous abuse of farm animals that takes place on Factory Farms, so they lobby politicians to make it illegal to collect the evidence. We are are in the process of being systematically conditioned to accept ever greater assaults on our freedom.

I think the American people will wake up when things get bad enough. And then well, think of the revolutions we're seeing in the middle east. I think it's only a matter of time before it happens here.

« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2011, 22:35 »
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As an American citizen, this doesn't surprise me at all. The USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world. One in every 100 Americans is in jail or prison. We house 25% of the world's prisoners, yet we only account for 5% of the world's population. Incarceration is big business in the US, and many people are getting rich off of it. We have for profit prisons now, and prisons are the primary employer for many communities. The Drug War keeps the system supplied with a steady flow of 'customers'. Meanwhile the expense is bankrupting state's budgets.

Our politicians are bought off, and the system is rigged. This is not a Democracy, it's a Corporatocracy. Now Big Food is in on the act, they don't want the world to witness the horrendous abuse of farm animals that takes place on Factory Farms, so they lobby politicians to make it illegal to collect the evidence. We are are in the process of being systematically conditioned to accept ever greater assaults on our freedom.

I think the American people will wake up when things get bad enough. And then well, think of the revolutions we're seeing in the middle east. I think it's only a matter of time before it happens here.

I  couldn't agree more. Also an irony about this law...it's sponsored by a Republican senator. Aren't they the limited government folk? This sure seems like over-reaching to me.

« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2011, 23:41 »
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I  couldn't agree more. Also an irony about this law...it's sponsored by a Republican senator. Aren't they the limited government folk? This sure seems like over-reaching to me.

They only want to limit the government from doing things that could help people. Locking people up is encouraged.

« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2011, 00:34 »
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So a lot of people say that this is stupid it will never pass.. well read this, this will open your eyes.. don't talk bad about food industry in these 12 states, or you will be in big trouble.. doesn't matter if the product is cancer producing, or if the animals are mistreated, the big food guy's profit is all that matters..

http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advocacy/2009/11/burger-bashing-and-sirloin-slander-food-disparagement-laws-in-the-united-states/

lisafx

« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2011, 14:09 »
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I  couldn't agree more. Also an irony about this law...it's sponsored by a Republican senator. Aren't they the limited government folk? This sure seems like over-reaching to me.

They only want to limit the government from doing things that could help people. Locking people up is encouraged.

That sums it up nicely.  Scary thing is how easy propagandized most people are.  

@Allsa - agree 100% with everything you said, except possibly the part about people rising up and not taking it anymore.  I am shocked at how many people not only ACCEPT the infringement of their civil liberties, but enthusiastically support the people who are doing it.  ???

Our country is filled with gullible sheep who can be easily fooled into misdirecting their anger.  Saddens me to see it.  

« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2011, 21:55 »
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@Allsa - agree 100% with everything you said, except possibly the part about people rising up and not taking it anymore.  I am shocked at how many people not only ACCEPT the infringement of their civil liberties, but enthusiastically support the people who are doing it.  ???

Our country is filled with gullible sheep who can be easily fooled into misdirecting their anger.  Saddens me to see it.  

I know what you mean, it's so depressing, isn't it? But what I'm seeing happen in the Middle East gives me hope that maybe we can have a 'Great Awakening' in this country before it's too late. With so many people hurting badly in this economy, there's a lot of anger in the air. I just don't know how bad it has to get before enough people wake up to the fact that this country is no longer a democracy.

« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2011, 22:18 »
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@Allsa - agree 100% with everything you said, except possibly the part about people rising up and not taking it anymore.  I am shocked at how many people not only ACCEPT the infringement of their civil liberties, but enthusiastically support the people who are doing it.  ???

Our country is filled with gullible sheep who can be easily fooled into misdirecting their anger.  Saddens me to see it.  


I know what you mean, it's so depressing, isn't it? But what I'm seeing happen in the Middle East gives me hope that maybe we can have a 'Great Awakening' in this country before it's too late. With so many people hurting badly in this economy, there's a lot of anger in the air. I just don't know how bad it has to get before enough people wake up to the fact that this country is no longer a democracy.


I think it will need to get very very bad. However, we might all be too sick to even do anything about it. If you haven't heard of or seen the documentary "Gasland", about natural gas and fracking, it is a must see for every American. This is going on right  now and it is of course being marketed as harmless, but the evidence proves quite the contrary.

Gasland: Dangers of Natural Gas Extraction (Extended Trailer)

Uncle Pete

  • Evidence please...

« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2011, 03:01 »
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So a lot of people say that this is stupid it will never pass.. well read this, this will open your eyes.. don't talk bad about food industry in these 12 states, or you will be in big trouble.. doesn't matter if the product is cancer producing, or if the animals are mistreated, the big food guy's profit is all that matters..

http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advocacy/2009/11/burger-bashing-and-sirloin-slander-food-disparagement-laws-in-the-united-states/


From the article: "It is worth noting that, had these laws been in force in earlier decades... Rachel Carson's Silent Spring (1962) would never have been published." Which I find not to be a negative since she did no research, wrote the book without any peer review or data and controlled studies. Just an idea and years later the myth of he untruths is still hailed. Anyone ever note how many humans die each year because of the ban of DDT, which was the thrust of Carsons book? People who die from malaria and other diseases that are carried by insects. But, we have safe robins, which weren't ever proven to be harmed by DDT. In fact DDT was banned based on rumor and conjecture and never proven to be harmful in the ways that Carson claimed.

Facts:

There are some 300 to 500 million reported cases of malaria each year, 90% occurring in Africa. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), about two and a half million people die of the disease each year, again, mostly in Africa, the majority of them poor children. Indeed, malaria is the second leading cause of death in Africa (after AIDS) and the number one killer of children there (with about one child being lost to malaria every thirty seconds). Many medical historians believe malaria has killed more people than any other disease in history, including the Black Plague, and may have contributed to the collapse of the Roman Empire. Malaria was common in places as far north as Boston and England until the twentieth century. Two thirds of the world lived in malaria-ridden areas prior to the 1940s.

That devastation all but stopped during the time that DDT use was widespread, around 1950-1970. Indeed, the discovery that DDT could kill malarial mosquitoes earned Dr. Paul Mller the Nobel Prize in Medicine in 1948. DDT, a chemical pesticide synthesized by Mller in the late 1930s, was initially used against houseflies, beetles, various farm pests, and typhus-carrying lice on the bodies of World War II soldiers and civilians. America and England soon became the major producers of the chemical, using it to fight malaria-carrying mosquitoes, especially in tropical regions.

In all, DDT has been conservatively credited with saving some 100 million lives.


Thanks for the great book Rachel. 100 million people have died since the DDT ban, in 1972.

20,000 people die each day from malaria. http://www.stopmalarianow.org/home.html?&L=9

http://www.acsh.org/healthissues/newsID.442/healthissue_detail.asp
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 18:00 by RacePhoto »

« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2011, 03:51 »
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Photographing decreases dairy cows yield and steals cows souls.  :-\

lisafx

« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2011, 10:34 »
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Pete, not sure how to interpret your post.  Are you saying that you AGREE with banning photography of all farmland - even from the road? And with making it a federal offense punishable by jail time? 

« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2011, 12:54 »
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I've read somewhere that the next clever thing they're briging up is a new type of corn, called Cyanicorn. It's going to be genetically modified to be completely resistant to cyanide. They will spray the fields with cyanide killing everything but the corn and increase their yield 500%. Hungry people will be fed!

Now who in their right mind could be against such a smart invention? Some commie liberals maybe, but patriotic Americans will pay the required licensing fees to taste the goodness of Cyanicorn!

So I'm with RacePhoto on these issues. I'm for common sense over hysteira. And RacePhoto is right about DDT too. I can drink a whole bottle of the stuff, and apart from getting a little high I feel great and it keeps me free of malaria!

« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2011, 13:13 »
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Pete, not sure how to interpret your post.  Are you saying that you AGREE with banning photography of all farmland - even from the road? And with making it a federal offense punishable by jail time?  

I am also confused. Is he saying that DDT is not harmful at all? It may "save" lives from malaria, but what about the harmful effects to birds, fish, other mammals, and the environment? Seems kind of like a lose-lose situation. Die from malaria or slowly kill yourself by poisoning the environment. :/
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 13:14 by caspixel »

Uncle Pete

  • Evidence please...

« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2011, 13:31 »
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Pete, not sure how to interpret your post.  Are you saying that you AGREE with banning photography of all farmland - even from the road? And with making it a federal offense punishable by jail time? 

Of course not and I never have been, When we discussed the people arrested for taking photos in train stations in the UK or New York I felt the same way.

Standing on public property we should be able to photograph pretty much anything we can see. I'd be against using a telephoto and looking into a window, where someone would have the expectation of privacy.

In a private building, mall, or factory, (or buying a ticket to an event) we have no rights, because it's private property and we would need permission.

Farms are open air, just like a park or a street or anything else. The cows, chickens, workers picking oranges, whatever else, have no expectation of privacy. We should be able to photograph anything we can see, outside.

Someone else brought up freedom of speech and I was pointing out that slander is not protected. Truth is the basic defense against any charge of slander or libel. The laws protecting perishable foods are just as stupid and unnecessary as this new one, trying to block people from taking photos of farms.

As someone else has pointed out, the laws we have should be good enough to cover the situation. Trespassing, invasion of privacy and illegal entry under false pretenses, for starters. Breaking the law for a cause, doesn't suddenly make it legal.

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