Author Topic: Common refund reason? (Read 4407 times)

ShadySue · « **on:** July 09, 2012, 09:16 »

I noticed that someone 'won' one of these 'bid' design contests for the front of a hotel guest directory using one of my photos. (No, it wasn't a photo I happened to have of the hotel, it was a general shot from the city).
http://99designs.co.uk/print-design/contests/hotel-le-bleu-guest-directory-design-layout-41169

I wonder if these design contests are a reason for so many refunds after some time. Contestants maybe buy the image to make a mockup and when they don't win, they ask for a refund. That particular 'contest' had apparently attracted 41 'bids'. That could be 40 requested refunds.

louoates · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2012, 09:27 »

You could always contact the design winner and ask. I can't see how these "contests" can amount to much loss of revenue. I'd look at it as just another petty theft made possible by easy access to images and not many scruples in the morals department.

heywoody · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2012, 09:34 »

From where I sit, using an image in a bid is commercial use - how could a refund be justified?

ShadySue · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2012, 09:45 »

Quote from: louoates on July 09, 2012, 09:27

You could always contact the design winner and ask. I can't see how these "contests" can amount to much loss of revenue. I'd look at it as just another petty theft made possible by easy access to images and not many scruples in the morals department.

I'm not accusing him of stealing my image. I'm just wondering if it's common practice for refunds to be sought by losers.
40 losers, one winner xn could add up to a lot of refunds.

ShadySue · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2012, 09:45 »

Quote from: heywoody on July 09, 2012, 09:34

From where I sit, using an image in a bid is commercial use - how could a refund be justified?

"client went with a different concept"

Difydave · « **Reply #5 on:** July 09, 2012, 10:05 »

I'd agree with heywoody. Far as I can see "Client saw that concept" is commercial use.
The "client" as far as we're concerned is the person who bought a license, not their own prospective clients. What they choose to do with it is up to them.

heywoody · « **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2012, 10:20 »

You buy an oufit for an interview but you don't get the job - what do you reckon the chances are that the store would give you a refund on that basis ?

ShadySue · « **Reply #7 on:** July 09, 2012, 10:23 »

Quote from: Difydave on July 09, 2012, 10:05

I'd agree with heywoody. Far as I can see "Client saw that concept" is commercial use.
The "client" as far as we're concerned is the person who bought a license, not their own prospective clients. What they choose to do with it is up to them.

iStock apparently accepts 'client went with different image' as a refund excuse. What other reasons could there be other than 'accidentally downloaded two copies of the file' (it has happened to me, in the days they gave you reasons for refunds) or that they 'want to buy a bigger one', which has also happened to me, and as Sean and others have mentioned, should be made easy to do on the site.
I'm sure 'they' allow a much bigger range of refund reasons than 'we' would, to keep the customers happy. Otherwise, why would people get refunds after months, which usually isn't even allowed with a perfectly sealed up (i.e. demonstrably unused) product from a physical shop?

ShadySue · « **Reply #8 on:** July 09, 2012, 10:25 »

Quote from: heywoody on July 09, 2012, 10:20

You buy an oufit for an interview but you don't get the job - what do you reckon the chances are that the store would give you a refund on that basis ?

Apparently plenty of people do that (I don't) or for one-off 'black tie' occasions.
The shops generally take them back within so many days provided you haven't spilt red wine on the outfit or similar.
(From what I read on another thread, the take-back policy is more lax in the US than here, and less lax/non-existent in other countries.)

stockastic · « **Reply #9 on:** July 09, 2012, 10:31 »

Basically these agencies are allowing their customers to use our images for some period of time free of charge. Alamy gives refunds up to 30 days after the so-called "sale" is reported to the photographer. After 10 days, Alamy charges the customer 50% of the price, but pays the photographer nothing, which amounts to a rental without a commission. Sweet isn't it?

Difydave · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2012, 11:03 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 09, 2012, 10:23

Quote from: Difydave on July 09, 2012, 10:05
I'd agree with heywoody. Far as I can see "Client saw that concept" is commercial use.
The "client" as far as we're concerned is the person who bought a license, not their own prospective clients. What they choose to do with it is up to them.
iStock apparently accepts 'client went with different image' as a refund excuse. What other reasons could there be other than 'accidentally downloaded two copies of the file' (it has happened to me, in the days they gave you reasons for refunds) or that they 'want to buy a bigger one', which has also happened to me, and as Sean and others have mentioned, should be made easy to do on the site.
I'm sure 'they' allow a much bigger range of refund reasons than 'we' would, to keep the customers happy. Otherwise, why would people get refunds after months, which usually isn't even allowed with a perfectly sealed up (i.e. demonstrably unused) product from a physical shop?

Yeah, I've seen the "client went with different image" thing I've just never seen it was fair to the contributors.
As has been said many times in the iStock forum, I really don't mind people having a refund if there is a genuine reason (and I can see that their ideas on "genuine" might differ from ours

but all else aside the length of time these are allowed is not on IMO.
(I think it was you who asked for this ages ago) It would be good if all the licenses and T&C were given in plain English, and updated to cover new eventualities as they came up. Sometimes seems like it gets made up as things go along.

ShadySue · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2012, 11:07 »

Quote from: Difydave on July 09, 2012, 11:03

(I think it was you who asked for this ages ago) It would be good if all the licenses and T&C were given in plain English, and updated to cover new eventualities as they came up. Sometimes seems like it gets made up as things go along.

I've been banging on about it for years: before I was banned, on the iStock forums, since then, on here.
I honestly don't think they want to be plain and easy to understand.
I think they want to make sure they have plenty of wiggle room not to have to take action.
It's really annoying, though, as no-one seems to have a clue, even at Support, as the e-book thread over there shows yet again. Support seem to give a different answer to that suggested in the ASA. Or it can just depend who answers your query how they interpret the ASA
(or which pro-forma answer they soose to click on).

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Author Topic: Common refund reason? (Read 4407 times)

ShadySue

louoates

heywoody

ShadySue

ShadySue

Difydave

heywoody

ShadySue

ShadySue

stockastic

Difydave

ShadySue

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