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Poll

If you are a microstock contributor, did you start out with the micros, with the trads, or did you turn to micro after being rejected by traditional agencies?

I was a contributor to traditional stock agencies before I started selling on microstock
15 (16.5%)
I applied to traditional agencies before microstock but was rejected
10 (11%)
I went straight to selling on microstock without trying traditional agencies first
66 (72.5%)

Total Members Voted: 83

Voting closed: June 16, 2009, 11:23

Author Topic: POLL: Did you try Trad Agencies or Micros First?  (Read 8673 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2009, 10:47 »
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Hi Stock shooter,

 I agree with Zeus, never surrender! The Macro agencies also have a tendency to go through fazes where they don't add new shooters then the next month they are busy looking for top content. I have known many shooters that were rejected and then went back and knocked on the door with new work and were given contracts. Art directors on a shoot are there to help you make better pictures however it depends on how well you click with your editor. I have had excellent ones and others that just didn't see things the way I did. The relationship should be a supportive one that brings out the best in the photographer. When that occurs an Art director can make you a lot of money. Keep pounding on all those doors all they can say is no. Good job stepping into the unknown. Those that embrace change and the fear that accompanies it will sore with eagles.

Best,
Jonathan


« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2009, 14:27 »
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Hello again, sorry for the late reply. If I can answer some points relating to my post...

LisaFX

Thanks for the explanation. 

I do this FT too, but there is no way I could produce 100 images a week of the type of images I do for micro - model released lifestyle shots.

My experience is the opposite of yours.  Actual image capture is only a tiny fraction of my working hours.  The majority of my time is spent post processing and keywording, uploading, arranging and story boarding shoots, securing props and models, tracking sales and payouts, etc. 


Post processing, captioning and uploading is the easy part, I use Fotostation to caption multiple image batches, send them all to a folder, and they are extracted by FTP to all the outlets I sydicate to. On mico's you have to categorize, with Alamy  fill in the rest of the fields,with the rest that all the work is done when they are sent. Yes, if you have to source props etc, it's time consuming. Sales and payouts, micro is straightforward, it's the ones who don't pay and you have to invoice who are a pain. For the type of material I shoot, the time consuming part is getting the pics themselves.


Dook Thank you for this info.
"People pics go to alamy, other editorial outlets. "
Can you please tell us what are other editorial outlets, if possible?

I'll touch on this in a moment!

gostwyck

I might come back with about 7000 images of which maybe 200-300 will eventually be uploaded.

The most productive (highly successful) microstocker was probably Hidesy in her hey-day. Incredibly she averaged 6-7 new images accepted every single day for nearly 3 years although she admitted in an interview that she normally worked 12 hours a day, 7 days a week to achieve it. That equates to about 200 images per month and, by doing so, it gave her by far the largest portfolio on IS. The idea of any individual being able to consistently produce quality stock images at double that rate makes no sense to me.

There's no way you can fly from the UK to Vienna and back in one day for 50 either (or virtually any other continental destination) __ I wish you could.


We are talking UK ryanair flights here - booked as far in advance as possible. No business surcharges for early or late, sometime, yes I stay overnight, usually on an airport lounge floor. You can get from England to Barcelona, Girona, Venice, Lyon etc for 1 pence per way with their best offers, tax adds up to just over 50 --00.
 
I would shoot 50 pics in the Uk airport, lounge, passengers, departures, baggage, taxis etc, same in spain on landing. Head on a bus to Las Ramblas, over a mile of every variety of life possible. Don't forget to shoot every bank sign you see or famous store logo. On to the Sagrada Familia, tourists, plaza, architeture, statues etc. Then a quick hike to Barcelona's football ground, stadium interior and exteriors, trophy cabinet, football training pitches, Japanese tourists with camera's. Them back to the main city square for more people shots, local taxi's, buses - don't foget the Spanish McDonalds on the corner - the list goes on. Back for your flight, sleeping tourists at the airport, Easyjet plane on runway, sneaky pic of security guard or policeman.

That fill's all my cards - if rain had been forcast I'd have stayed at home. Careful planning it's manageable, just like jumping on a train to London - Big Ben, Palace, Thames, Underground ete.

SJlcoke

Are these 100 planned out and executed shots, or are you just walking around shooting anything that moves, like most of what is on Alamy?  I can't imagine you are scheduling locations and models in foreign countries every 3 days.


I play to my strengths, digital ones!. Have camera will travel. No, I don't plan specific shots. I would have a general route in mind, and check out the local postcards for the best viewpoints etc. It was Hannibal lector who said we covert what we see, although I think he was quoting the bible. Our first sense is sight, everything has potential.


stock shooter

Ill keep trying for Masterfile and Corbis and slowly submit to Getty but Micro is paying the bills and without it I wouldnt be a photographer
.

Getty and Corbis are the biggest earners, but what about the other traditional outlets? Have a look at CEPIC or PACA, every country has numerous agencies, all can be approached. Every agency does it, look at Alamy, they have agents in many countries. Say I have 100,000 travel pics, maybe 5,000 would be suitable for micro, 100,000 for Alamy. Alamy are just one trad agency, pick an agent in every European country and ask them to represent your material. Corbis and Getty are the cream, but all the smaller agencies are making money that have not been bought by them. Every pic I take goes to in excess of 30 outlets - only 7 micro's. 100 pics per week X 30 - that's 3,000 pics going on sale every week. (I'll ignore micro rejections here - they are the pickiest of anyone I deal with)

Funny world really, macro die hards say micro is devaluing them, the rot started when digitial camera's came along. Suddenly you didn't have to have a darkroom and suppy pics by print or scanned from neg. Alamy latched on early, thousands of amateurs with good quality camers,  we'll take them. Now Alamy are themselves a big agent, and complaining about micro's. That's because micro's have latched on to an increasing awareness by photographer's that they don't need to be Robert Capra to sell a picture.

To sign off, let's go back 15 years. English football (soccer) - best seller for pics in UK newspapers by far. End of the season, a top club would change it's sponser on their shirt. Rat's, my entire library's suddenly out of date. All clubs play pre season friendlies, packed to the hilt with sports photographers wanting newly signed players wearing new kit's with sponsers. No ruthless editing here, we'll send out 50 pics of that 10,000,000 signing, on the ball, running, warming up, waving at crowd, tackle, heading etc. Next we'll develop the negatives in a hired room near the ground, and send the lot to the newspapers over the next two hours.

It's a high throughput darkroom concept, large volume. Look at any big sports match today, there will be 50 snappers there fire-wiring from pitchside to their office, office - caption and edit in minutes, then send them out for the next days newspaper. Apply the same principles to Micro.

As a trad photographer, were I to take up micro full time, that's what I'd do. Shoot in high volume, and process at speed. Coming from a live event news background helps!

What you must remember, every one of you good folk, is that you are on a level playing field with Getty in  a lot of respects. You can produce material of not significant difference to them, they key is finding people to sell it.

Evening to all

Oldhand

« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2009, 14:46 »
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We are talking UK ryanair flights here - booked as far in advance as possible. No business surcharges for early or late, sometime, yes I stay overnight, usually on an airport lounge floor.

Ah __ that's more like it! You made it sound like a breeze in your previous post but of course the reality is many long and uncomfortable hours.

Very good post overall although I'm not sure I agree with the concept of using your camera like a machine gun __ I've seen quite a few people wasting a lot of their own and others' time attempting this (it doesn't really work). You might get away with that on Alamy but it won't work on micro's as it's just too competitive. Quality trumps quantity every time.

« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2009, 14:54 »
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Hi Gostwyk - quality will out!

I quite agree, but my way some of the machine gun bullets find a target, often the unexpected ones. 100% agree though, you can point and shoot all day long, maybe - just an opinion - the microstocker would judge 10 out a 100 sellable, I'd say 25. I'll keep watching those acceptance rates.

Time for TV land in the UK.

Rgs

Oldhand

« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2009, 15:00 »
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Ah, so you're just a walk about street shooter.  Got it.  I don't think you'll find huge success with that on the micros, especially as you don't have releases.

Dook

« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2009, 15:14 »
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Yes, releases. The problem with micros is the editorial stuff is not selling well. Do you really sell a lot people shots without releases? How is it possible?

« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2009, 15:44 »
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Ah, so you're just a walk about street shooter. 

Harrumph! What do you mean just a walk-about street shooter?!

That's how I started, before I got the studio gear, and I've captured many of my best selling images that way. On IS, of my all-time best-selling images, 13 out of 19 were taken by simply going for a walk with my camera. I've done many a short 'walk' that has made well over $1000 __ a few of them many times that. In fact I curse myself for not making more time for 'walks' nowadays!

One of the good things about going for 'shooting walks' is that you get to capture truly unique moments in light/clouds/nature/industry that a) never go out of fashion and b) others can't usually copy.

Ok, it is totally unpredictable and it's rare to get stuff that sells fantastically well __ but then it costs virtually nothing to do (therefore almost entirely risk-free) and is also extremely enjoyable.

« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2009, 16:46 »
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Nothing personal.  I just now understand how he can recommend uploading 100 a week and then trying to double that.  You just walk faster :) ...

« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2009, 17:05 »
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Ah, so you're just a walk about street shooter.  Got it.  I don't think you'll find huge success with that on the micros, especially as you don't have releases.

Hi there  -I'm shoot for editorial stock - open a newspaper with a travel supplement, that's my market. People on beaches, landmarks, resorts, street scenes, gondolas, the lot. There's not a lot to plan here, your in Paris, it's a sunny day, off you go.

Big problem if microstock was my sole income, 99% of them would need a release.  What I am saying is the same principles of shooting can still apply to Micro. I have no plans on being Yuri 2, different league, but on my current stats there is still good money in this game.

From Yuri Arcurs website - Eight Secrets from the Worlds Top Selling Photographer

"7. Be overly productive
My senior assistant, who is a photojournalist, came up to me the other day after doing a backstage report for a Danish rock band and said: I dont get it at allall these other photographers were just sitting around with their cameras and talkingand I know this for a fact because I saw them doing it through my viewfinder.

My assistant saw this whole concert through his camera and took over 1300 RAW files in three hours with his 1Ds. I dont care how much talent one has; it takes pictures and a lot of them to get great shots.

Shoot like crazy, especially if you have a limited time with the models or at the location."

We all have widely different methods - Ideally I'd take every sterotype of model with signed release forms to every major city in the world.

There's an article by Jack Hollingsworrth on Microstockdiares where you can pay $4,000 or so, and accompany him on a cruise shooting in numerous cities. Yes, he has got models arranged, but even without them there is more than enough scope to take enough great pics to keep you uploading for a very time.

Bottom line, speaking as a humble unelected representative of traditional photograpers, to make money in micro you should be able to upload 50+ sellable pics a week and still have a day job.

« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2009, 17:10 »
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Nothing personal.  I just now understand how he can recommend uploading 100 a week and then trying to double that.  You just walk faster  ...

I like that one - definately deserved it!!!

I'll retire now, get some rest for the New York City marathon, I'll be the chap with six camera's.

Oldhand

« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2009, 17:11 »
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Hey, that's my goal exactly. I should be exclusive on istock within a month, and I intend to use the 50/week to the max. Of course I still have the acceptance rate and sellability to worry about, but those should improve with time.

The walk arounds are also great exercise. I got back into photography after realising that I had spent a year sitting at my computer learning digital painting and 3D. Take my camera for a walk and I can walk for hours without even realising how exhausted I am.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 17:17 by averil »


 

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