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Author Topic: Getting Started - which MS Agencies for MY style of photography ?  (Read 9060 times)

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« on: October 14, 2017, 01:37 »
+1
Hi All and thanks for taking the time to check out this post .. and hopefully reply  ;)

Background
I'm newly retired (58) and am currently building my own website (using Divi) to display my fine art photography. However as I've lived in China for the past 23 yrs, and travel (and hike/climb) frequently (S.E. Asia, China, Japan, Nepal, Borneo, Iceland, Norway, UK & other European countries) with plans to add S.America too, I therefore have a substantial library of landscape, travel, long-exposure & bird & animal photography, however naturally only those I consider the best will appear on my personal website for fine art sales & travel blog (max. ca. 100). That leaves me with hundreds of thousands of decent to very good shots sitting untouched on my many hard disks !  ;D

I used to use all pro-level Nikon gear, now however mainly Sony with Zeiss & Voigtlander lenses and I'm getting into Drone photography too.

OK that's the background.

I've done a fair bit of research and have found the plethora of microstock sites (there's a difference with macrostock etc ?) slightly overwhelming, and am actually very surprised at the low commission rates for artists & suppliers, and also at the very low quality of many (but certainly not most) of the photos offered.  I can accept 60-70% which seems fair if they are offering a range of services to the buyer (framing etc.) but don't want to limit myself to one site and then have to accept 30% for multi-agency !   :o

I was initially going to register (in fact I have at their lowest level, $22) on Fine Art America but I haven't uploaded anything yet and I also registered on 500px but once I read about some of the drawbacks and losing control of my better work (and the 30% for shots not given sole distribution through the site, I still haven't uploaded anything there either). Am I in cloudland regarding commissions ?! Note I am not looking to make a living, enough to support my photography and contribute to travel expenses would be great  :D

Any thoughts on Photoshelter ?

Any advice on which sites to start off using and how to retain control of my images (all contain my logo, copies without logos are supplied to buyers) would be very welcome.

Many thanks !
Kevin


« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2017, 12:56 »
+3
If you want to retain any semblance of control of your images selling RF (royalty free) licenses, which is what microstock do well, is not a suitable option for you.

« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2017, 20:53 »
+3
If you want to retain any kind of control, you should look for rights managed sales only.

However that is a tiny sliver of the market, maybe 10%. Everything else is royalty free and yes, for very, very low prices.

A high royalty percentage is no guarantee of a good income.

There are places that offer 90% but you never sell anything.

Macro and micro don't mean much anymore these days as especially getty sells a huge amount of files for much less than one dollar. 0.002 cents is quite possible.

So maybe have a look at RM on Alamy or build a portfolio on photoshelter or just sell directly from your own website.

Good luck!

« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2017, 01:32 »
+2
If you aren't prepared to accept pennies per downloads - but multiple sales if it goes well - then microstock is not for you! End of story.

Be wary of large percentages and remember that 100% or zero is - well - zero.

In my view, you will need a great site (whichever you choose) and FOR YOU TO DO lots of direct marketing to galleries, publishers etc - as well as luck - to get a bigger percentage and higher value sales. Even if your photos are absolutely stunning this is an oversupplied market and the agencies are out to win.....

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2017, 03:10 »
+1
Quote
Any advice on which sites to start off using and how to retain control of my images (all contain my logo, copies without logos are supplied to buyers) would be very welcome.

You mentioned that you do fine art. In this case, I would focus on fine art agencies and avoid microstock altogether for those images. In fact, microstock reviewers often reject fine art image for too much shadow and/or noise.

Fine Art America is a good option to get started as is Saatchi Gallery, but you'll have to do a lot of the marketing yourself. It's not a place to park your images like in microstock where the agency does the marketing.

I've been having a few interesting discussions on the FAA forum and learning how their business model works. One such poster gave a nice breakdown of how Print on Demand differs to Microstock, which i'll post below:

Quote
Edward Fielding3 Days Ago
Understand your market and you might start seeing sales. Why fine art is not microstock:

Microstock:

- microstock sells to professional image buyers who need lots of low cost images every day
- microstock companies have a customer base that frequently licenses from them - many pay a subscription
- designers are buying for their business using the company's money
- microstock licencees may need an image like your "brick wall"
- Could care less about the image supplier

Fine art buyers:

- Are spending their own hard earned cash
- Are making the occasional purchase for themselves or as a gift
- Are buying something for the living room or office
- Are not interested in "brick wall"
- Might come to FAA once in their lifetime
- Care to know about the artist they are supporting

So in summary, know where your images would be best placed and why. There's going to naturally be some cross-over though, but the strategy needs to be thought out.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 03:15 by Brasilnut »

« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2017, 04:01 »
0
Thank you OBJ owl, Cobalt Sarah2 and Brasilnut for your replies, valuable opinion.

I think I may have to split my work into two, those I'm prepared to let go for RF and those for RM/Fine Art on my own website and Alamy/FAA/Saatchi.

Cheers !
Kevin

« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2017, 05:50 »
+1
Re Photoshelter - what you would sell there would depend entirely on your own marketing skills. It's essentially a file storage site with sales potentiality built into it. It does get rid of the middle-man but you need to be able to reach potential buyers and direct them to your portfolio, which means a lot of work (also you need to set up a merchant account to receive credit card payments).  I use it for file storage and file organisation but it's an expensive option for that (however, as I'm paying I console myself with the thought that it won't suddenly shut down and cut me off from my processed files).

FAA is another site where you're meant to do your own marketing, but I do get some sales from that without making any effort. There are long gaps between sales (with about 800 files there)  but the income more than pays the hosting fees.  Those who do good work and their own marketing may make a good sum from there.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 05:54 by BaldricksTrousers »

« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2017, 12:15 »
0
Thanks BT.  It would seem I probably don't need PS either then as I am already on SmugMug (similar to Zenfolio) and they both seem to be very similar to PS if it's only a repository. Just need to upgrade SmugMug to Pro to sell on there.  Maybe PS attracts much higher footfall though.

So microstock for files that would otherwise sit on my HD and FAA/Alamy/Saatchi perhaps for RM with my own site for the highest quality and blog.

Any benefit to just selecting one MS site for RF or should I deposit them on as many sites as possible ?

Cheers !
Kevin

Re Photoshelter - what you would sell there would depend entirely on your own marketing skills. It's essentially a file storage site with sales potentiality built into it. It does get rid of the middle-man but you need to be able to reach potential buyers and direct them to your portfolio, which means a lot of work (also you need to set up a merchant account to receive credit card payments).  I use it for file storage and file organisation but it's an expensive option for that (however, as I'm paying I console myself with the thought that it won't suddenly shut down and cut me off from my processed files).

FAA is another site where you're meant to do your own marketing, but I do get some sales from that without making any effort. There are long gaps between sales (with about 800 files there)  but the income more than pays the hosting fees.  Those who do good work and their own marketing may make a good sum from there.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 12:17 by Frogfish »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2017, 12:57 »
+1
Any benefit to just selecting one MS site for RF or should I deposit them on as many sites as possible ?
There are two issues here which only you can answer:
1. Whose BS are you prepared to / not prepared to tolerate (we all have different tolerances, not tolerance levels necessarily, but as a group we seem to have different tolerances for different sorts of BS.
2. Which will be best able to sell your pics? Which you can only really know by trial and error unless you know someone with the same subjects and styles as yourself, and even then all you could do would be take a share of their market.

« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2017, 14:59 »
+1
Hi Kevin,

My suggestion would be to upload 1200 - 1800 files over one year to at least 4 different agencies.

Let the customers tell you what they really like to buy from your portfolio.

You might be very surprised what they choose.

Their main interest is "useful" for their business or their project, not "will it look good as a print over my dining table"

Once the customers have spoken, see if the themes that interest them, are also things you love to shoot.

Then keep making more of what they are ready to pay for...

:)


« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 16:01 by cobalt »

« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2017, 18:19 »
+1

Any benefit to just selecting one MS site for RF or should I deposit them on as many sites as possible ?


Yes, if you want to retain any chance of an agency chasing infringement of license and thieves, one site is the way to go. It's hard work getting them involved if your images are with another agency. 
Exclusivity also pays a premium at some agencies and there are Premium Collections at some agencies, when it would not make sense to spead you images around. 
It can also save you time, energy and frustration uploading to too many agencies.

If I had my time again I would not touch RF on microstock, licenses are now such that you virtually give them away for 38cents or less with no support from the agencies when you need it.  OK if you sell thousands every month, but not for less.  If you must, try Stocksy, exclusive image with a better return.

rinderart

« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2017, 19:01 »
+5
Always remember One thing....Stock, Pure stock is not art. good commercial stock is a artform unto itself if done correctly. Pure art is galleries,POD is to me a scam in a big way especially Nowdays, Catering to folks that don't don't the difference in there work. I shoot for 4 markets. Commercial stock,Direct Sales and Gallery work. all quite different and you MUST understand this.. Im doing Micro since 2004 and general stock since 1968, then I do client work specifically for them,then I  work specifically with Interior decorators that furnish the hallways and common areas of very large Hotels in China,Mumbai etc. they Buy from me in Bulk with my Paintings of which I have 1407 of. they Print and frame. I supply the files.  I also supply My agent with work to be rented for interior decoration for Films and TV shows. all artwork seen on shows is rented which is a very Good Business.I also do 2 Gallery Shows in My town of Beverly Hills a year Of complete different work. One show is Very Large scale Oil On Canvas and the other is Usually B&W street work which happens to sell quite well. 16 x 20 in 20 x 24 Mats and Black Metal frames which I do Myself.
All the work is for different outputs and Understanding this as a artist is very Important and where 90% FAIL!!!!!!!!And there are Millions of great artists that will never be seen because of this, Dancers,actors,Painters,Photographers. The business side eludes The Vast Majority. ....******* the Microstock arena is currently going through a very Large slump so a good reason to never rely on one output.

If I had a Link to your work I would try to help More.
[email protected]

« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2017, 04:16 »
+1
Hi Kevin,

My suggestion would be to upload 1200 - 1800 files over one year to at least 4 different agencies.

Let the customers tell you what they really like to buy from your portfolio.

You might be very surprised what they choose.

Their main interest is "useful" for their business or their project, not "will it look good as a print over my dining table"

Once the customers have spoken, see if the themes that interest them, are also things you love to shoot.

Then keep making more of what they are ready to pay for...

:)

Great advice - thanks !

« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2017, 04:17 »
0
Any benefit to just selecting one MS site for RF or should I deposit them on as many sites as possible ?
There are two issues here which only you can answer:
1. Whose BS are you prepared to / not prepared to tolerate (we all have different tolerances, not tolerance levels necessarily, but as a group we seem to have different tolerances for different sorts of BS.
2. Which will be best able to sell your pics? Which you can only really know by trial and error unless you know someone with the same subjects and styles as yourself, and even then all you could do would be take a share of their market.
Thanks Sue !

« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2017, 04:19 »
0

Any benefit to just selecting one MS site for RF or should I deposit them on as many sites as possible ?


Yes, if you want to retain any chance of an agency chasing infringement of license and thieves, one site is the way to go. It's hard work getting them involved if your images are with another agency. 
Exclusivity also pays a premium at some agencies and there are Premium Collections at some agencies, when it would not make sense to spead you images around. 
It can also save you time, energy and frustration uploading to too many agencies.

If I had my time again I would not touch RF on microstock, licenses are now such that you virtually give them away for 38cents or less with no support from the agencies when you need it.  OK if you sell thousands every month, but not for less.  If you must, try Stocksy, exclusive image with a better return.
Valuable opinion - thanks ! I am often contacted by agencies wanting to run checks for stolen images and I will use them as I've find a few stolen and in use online. I'll take a look at Stocksy.

« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2017, 04:22 »
0
Always remember One thing....Stock, Pure stock is not art. good commercial stock is a artform unto itself if done correctly. Pure art is galleries,POD is to me a scam in a big way especially Nowdays, Catering to folks that don't don't the difference in there work. I shoot for 4 markets. Commercial stock,Direct Sales and Gallery work. all quite different and you MUST understand this.. Im doing Micro since 2004 and general stock since 1968, then I do client work specifically for them,then I  work specifically with Interior decorators that furnish the hallways and common areas of very large Hotels in China,Mumbai etc. they Buy from me in Bulk with my Paintings of which I have 1407 of. they Print and frame. I supply the files.  I also supply My agent with work to be rented for interior decoration for Films and TV shows. all artwork seen on shows is rented which is a very Good Business.I also do 2 Gallery Shows in My town of Beverly Hills a year Of complete different work. One show is Very Large scale Oil On Canvas and the other is Usually B&W street work which happens to sell quite well. 16 x 20 in 20 x 24 Mats and Black Metal frames which I do Myself.
All the work is for different outputs and Understanding this as a artist is very Important and where 90% FAIL!!!!!!!!And there are Millions of great artists that will never be seen because of this, Dancers,actors,Painters,Photographers. The business side eludes The Vast Majority. ....******* the Microstock arena is currently going through a very Large slump so a good reason to never rely on one output.

If I had a Link to your work I would try to help More.
[email protected]
Very interesting comments. I've sent you an email and really appreciate your time and opinion.

I use SmugMug as a repository for maybe 10% of my work (far too much to upload everything) !  Anyone wanting to take a look can find it here : https://frogfish.smugmug.com/  or cropped files on Instagram at @thedragonsfather

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2017, 05:23 »
+3
I use SmugMug as a repository for maybe 10% of my work (far too much to upload everything) !  Anyone wanting to take a look can find it here : https://frogfish.smugmug.com/  or cropped files on Instagram at @thedragonsfather
These images are mostly far too good for micro.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 05:36 by ShadySue »


« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2017, 08:37 »
0
The images are lovely, but I suppose a lot of the portraits are unreleased?

A lot of editorial travel imagery, lots of animals.

I dont know how much images like these are in demand, or how rare they are.

The question is - on your travels, would you maybe enjoy to organize a stock shoot?

 Get a family to cook local dinner and take pictures of the process and the family eating together.

Make sure there are no brands or logos visible and get releases.

Most important: pay the family.

Then you have wonderful localized content that all agencies are looking for.

But would you enjoy doing that?

For many, after trying stock for two years, it is best to just stick to editorial, upload just every three months a carefully edited batch to a few agencies.

But unless you try it, you will never know.

« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2017, 05:39 »
0
I use SmugMug as a repository for maybe 10% of my work (far too much to upload everything) !  Anyone wanting to take a look can find it here : https://frogfish.smugmug.com/  or cropped files on Instagram at @thedragonsfather
These images are mostly far too good for micro.
HaHa  ;D  Oh dear - thanks Sue !

« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2017, 05:45 »
+1
The images are lovely, but I suppose a lot of the portraits are unreleased?

A lot of editorial travel imagery, lots of animals.

I dont know how much images like these are in demand, or how rare they are.

The question is - on your travels, would you maybe enjoy to organize a stock shoot?

 Get a family to cook local dinner and take pictures of the process and the family eating together.

Make sure there are no brands or logos visible and get releases.

Most important: pay the family.

Then you have wonderful localized content that all agencies are looking for.

But would you enjoy doing that?

For many, after trying stock for two years, it is best to just stick to editorial, upload just every three months a carefully edited batch to a few agencies.

But unless you try it, you will never know.

Excellent suggestions, thank you. 

Editorial only as no model releases. I now have a model release form and electronic signature form installed on my phone for the future.

No problem at all with your 'family shoot' suggestion, fits right in with a lot of the shooting I do - note the 3 generation family shot from Nepal (after the earthquake). In fact the 'monks in Bagan' was in that vein (paid).

Cheers !
Kevin

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2017, 06:02 »
+1
Quote
I use SmugMug as a repository for maybe 10% of my work (far too much to upload everything) !  Anyone wanting to take a look can find it here : https://frogfish.smugmug.com/ [nofollow]  or cropped files on Instagram at @thedragonsfather

Beautiful shots. I've just added you on instagram.

Mine is @arotenbergphotography

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2017, 06:07 »
+1
If you're doing fine art I'd stay clear of micro. If you're selling an 8x12 print for say $40 and have that same image on micro, or even similar images that you decided weren't good enough, you'd be competing against yourself and devaluing your work. A buyer will do price shopping, buy your image $1 on micro and print the 8x12 at walmart for a couple dollars. While you may have made 30 cents you lost quite a bit more from them not buying the actual print from you. I have a clear dividing line with my work. Travel/Landscape I sell at consistent higher RM pricing. All other stuff like apples on white and phone shots of my breakfast go to micro.

Photoshelter is a portfolio site to showcase your work. They do zero marketing so you need to bring buyers to your site. I have a Photoshelter site with RM and self fulfilled print pricing. They also take a commission depending on your plan which I think is between 8-12%. You may want to also check into Photodeck.

If you're a good marketer with SEO and sales skills there's opportunity for selling at higher dollar amounts.

ETA: Just saw your link. You have some nice work but it's all over the place. I'd suggest becoming known for a specific subject so that you can attract repeat corporate buyers who have more money and will come back to you every time they need that subject. Are you Kevin the [landscape, animal, wedding, etc] photographer?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 06:22 by PaulieWalnuts »

« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2017, 06:46 »
+1
Quote
I use SmugMug as a repository for maybe 10% of my work (far too much to upload everything) !  Anyone wanting to take a look can find it here : https://frogfish.smugmug.com/ [nofollow]  or cropped files on Instagram at @thedragonsfather

Beautiful shots. I've just added you on instagram.

Mine is @arotenbergphotography
Thank you ! Added.

« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2017, 07:07 »
0
If you're doing fine art I'd stay clear of micro. If you're selling an 8x12 print for say $40 and have that same image on micro, or even similar images that you decided weren't good enough, you'd be competing against yourself and devaluing your work. A buyer will do price shopping, buy your image $1 on micro and print the 8x12 at walmart for a couple dollars. While you may have made 30 cents you lost quite a bit more from them not buying the actual print from you. I have a clear dividing line with my work. Travel/Landscape I sell at consistent higher RM pricing. All other stuff like apples on white and phone shots of my breakfast go to micro.

Photoshelter is a portfolio site to showcase your work. They do zero marketing so you need to bring buyers to your site. I have a Photoshelter site with RM and self fulfilled print pricing. They also take a commission depending on your plan which I think is between 8-12%. You may want to also check into Photodeck.

If you're a good marketer with SEO and sales skills there's opportunity for selling at higher dollar amounts.

ETA: Just saw your link. You have some nice work but it's all over the place. I'd suggest becoming known for a specific subject so that you can attract repeat corporate buyers who have more money and will come back to you every time they need that subject. Are you Kevin the [landscape, animal, wedding, etc] photographer?
Thanks for the great advice Paulie !  That is exactly the way I think I'm going to go, now I just have to whittle down which exact sites I'm going to use.

I realise my work is 'varied' to say the least :)  Not sure how I can get away from that TBH. My daughter (who is a pro blogger & instagram whatever, in fashion and luxury travel) gave me the same advice you have in that regard.

Unfortunately I realise my days for trekking / mountains may only have a few years remaining (knees are on their way out) so I'm determined to get in as many big hikes as I can and my prime loves, photographically speaking, are 'big scenes'.  However because I'm often travelling in exciting countries, and live in China, there are also so many other subjects I enjoy shooting, and that people seem to enjoy viewing. I shoot less bird/animal photography now (can't haul all that gear, big lenses, around any more) and in future most of my work will be big 'scapes (Tibet and Greenland next year), the enviroments and the people that live in those regions ..... plus long exposure photography (really long, from a few seconds up to minutes).

n.b. Not that Kevin .. I don't shoot weddings ;)

Many thanks !
Cheers
Kevin

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2017, 07:37 »
+1
If you're doing fine art I'd stay clear of micro. If you're selling an 8x12 print for say $40 and have that same image on micro, or even similar images that you decided weren't good enough, you'd be competing against yourself and devaluing your work. A buyer will do price shopping, buy your image $1 on micro and print the 8x12 at walmart for a couple dollars. While you may have made 30 cents you lost quite a bit more from them not buying the actual print from you. I have a clear dividing line with my work. Travel/Landscape I sell at consistent higher RM pricing. All other stuff like apples on white and phone shots of my breakfast go to micro.

Photoshelter is a portfolio site to showcase your work. They do zero marketing so you need to bring buyers to your site. I have a Photoshelter site with RM and self fulfilled print pricing. They also take a commission depending on your plan which I think is between 8-12%. You may want to also check into Photodeck.

If you're a good marketer with SEO and sales skills there's opportunity for selling at higher dollar amounts.

ETA: Just saw your link. You have some nice work but it's all over the place. I'd suggest becoming known for a specific subject so that you can attract repeat corporate buyers who have more money and will come back to you every time they need that subject. Are you Kevin the [landscape, animal, wedding, etc] photographer?
Thanks for the great advice Paulie !  That is exactly the way I think I'm going to go, now I just have to whittle down which exact sites I'm going to use.

I realise my work is 'varied' to say the least :)  Not sure how I can get away from that TBH. My daughter (who is a pro blogger & instagram whatever, in fashion and luxury travel) gave me the same advice you have in that regard.

Unfortunately I realise my days for trekking / mountains may only have a few years remaining (knees are on their way out) so I'm determined to get in as many big hikes as I can and my prime loves, photographically speaking, are 'big scenes'.  However because I'm often travelling in exciting countries, and live in China, there are also so many other subjects I enjoy shooting, and that people seem to enjoy viewing. I shoot less bird/animal photography now (can't haul all that gear, big lenses, around any more) and in future most of my work will be big 'scapes (Tibet and Greenland next year), the enviroments and the people that live in those regions ..... plus long exposure photography (really long, from a few seconds up to minutes).

n.b. Not that Kevin .. I don't shoot weddings ;)

Many thanks !
Cheers
Kevin

I'm not too far behind you age-wise so I get it. I'm in the same situation trying to get in as many shots as I can while my body says I can.

I also enjoy shooting other things than landscapes but I mostly keep those on my computer for my own enjoyment or post them to my personal social media accounts to keep business and personal stuff separate.

Regarding sites:

Micro: I use Shutterstock, Fotolia, and Istock. The rest arent worth the time IMO.
Macro: Can't recommend anything here. Places like Getty and Alamy have had prices and commissions drop to where they're not much different than micro these days.
Personal Site: I use both Photodeck and Photoshelter and prefer Photodeck.
Fine Art: This is a tough call because some people do great on some sites and on others sell nothing, and vice versa. I'd suggest experimenting with RedBubble, Zazzle, CafePress, FineArtAmerica, Etsy, etc. The problem with these is they all have different price structures so you need to find one where you get sales and can also keep consistent pricing to match your prices on your personal site and elsewhere.


« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2017, 01:17 »
+2
Such a great post to know different useful information.

« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2017, 05:09 »
+2
I use SmugMug as a repository for maybe 10% of my work (far too much to upload everything) !  Anyone wanting to take a look can find it here : https://frogfish.smugmug.com/  or cropped files on Instagram at @thedragonsfather
These images are mostly far too good for micro.

Yes, very nice shots. Maybe good for the Science Picture Library if there are a lot more - but just looking at various insects I note the absence of proper identifications. Of course, sorting out dragonflies and suchlike involves quite a bit of effort,


« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2017, 02:54 »
0
I use SmugMug as a repository for maybe 10% of my work (far too much to upload everything) !  Anyone wanting to take a look can find it here : https://frogfish.smugmug.com/  or cropped files on Instagram at @thedragonsfather
These images are mostly far too good for micro.

Yes, very nice shots. Maybe good for the Science Picture Library if there are a lot more - but just looking at various insects I note the absence of proper identifications. Of course, sorting out dragonflies and suchlike involves quite a bit of effort,
Thanks ! Actually I have an excellent books on Odonata etc. so I can put a name to all of the dragonflies, damsels, butterflies etc. however those were just a bit of fun and likely wouldn't be used or uploaded. It really is mostly my landscape and travel photography that I'll be concentrating on.

Cheers !
Kevin


 

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