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I am pretty new here but what is actually going on?

I am a buyer, not a contributor.

As a buyer, you might like to tell us!
Where have the buyers gone? Are there just too many agencies nowadays so the buyers can spread themselves thinly, and go for the lowest prices, or ...?

Nothing to be negative about. Telling about yuri or other who went for sole business, I will always say that talent is endless. You can still find many top class contributors who are still working seriously with this business.

Yes there is some worry around contributors due to less sales this month but this doesn't means its ending.

"I am a buyer, not a contributor."

What, exactly, are you worried about?

Yes I am getting worried about the whole microstock buisness. People like Yuri are going sole distributor, Lisa dont seem too happy and Lagereek, is nowhere to be found,  Claridge, a name most here havent even heard about is threatening to leave micro.
I am pretty new here but what is actually going on?

I am a buyer, not a contributor.

I'm sorry but why does it matter to you that Yuri has his own site, Lisa isn't happy, Lagereek is nowhere to be found, and someone we haven't even heard of is threatening to leave micro?   None of these things seem to have any significant effect on the whole microstock business. 

On a side note, I don't consider Stockfresh a fair paying agency. Their prices are too low to have any real earnings potential. Just my opinion though.

on the vectors/illustrations?

Quote from: cthoman on August 29, 2012, 11:43

On a side note, I don't consider Stockfresh a fair paying agency. Their prices are too low to have any real earnings potential. Just my opinion though.

on the vectors/illustrations?

Yep. I'm just not satisfied with the images for a buck model. Really, I don't want to sell anything for under $10, but that doesn't seem to be happening very many places.

Quote from: luissantos84 on August 29, 2012, 11:46

Quote from: cthoman on August 29, 2012, 11:43

On a side note, I don't consider Stockfresh a fair paying agency. Their prices are too low to have any real earnings potential. Just my opinion though.

on the vectors/illustrations?

Yep. I'm just not satisfied with the images for a buck model. Really, I don't want to sell anything for under $10, but that doesn't seem to be happening very many places.

the vector is at 10$ right? yes, subs for 35 cents, I understand your point based on your business strategy

As a buyer, I would be concerned too.  Once talented micro artists stop producing or pull out and go to much more expensive traditional stock outlets, the abundance of cheap high quality images will dry up. 

My suggestion would be to support fair trade sites like Stockfresh, Warmpicture, and artist's individual websites.  The more buyers go to the sites that support artists, the more likely it is that the artists can keep producing top quality imagery. 

BTW, Kudos to you, as a buyer, for being aware of the situation and trying to do something positive about it. 

Thanks. I was just mentioning some popular names here and by the sound of it some prolific photographers. Small time buyers like myself have got no option but to buy micro.
We have bought from smaller agencies and many times so. The trouble is, many times they just havent got the pictures. Perhaps it would be a good idea if photographers did not lock themselves with the bigger agencies but invested a little in the people of tomorrow.

gyllens?  A Lagereek's alter ego?   

Funny people here.  A few months ago many would have recommend Shutterstock.  Today they support Warmpicture, tomorrow...

Ha, I thought the same thing.  Who else would miss him posting here?

From the buyers perspective microstock has never been healthier. Your choice of images has never been greater and you've never had more avenues or price points from which to choose. Agencies like IS, FT and DT have actually been reducing some prices of late, presumeably in reaction to customer resistance.

Right.  So, I'm not seeing what the OP is "worried" about.

gyllens?  A Lagereek's alter ego?   

Possibly, that odd comma positioning is there.
LR isn't gone: he posted on Alamy's forum within the last day or two, and I'm sure I saw a post from him on iStock within the past week.

IS and SS are around $20 for high res files, so I'd put that closer to where the market is or should be. But, the market can probably bear higher prices than that. I'm not sure where the sweet spot is, but I'd put $10 at the minimum...

But we're only getting a small percentage for those sales. Higher prices like that discourage some buyers from buying more often, and the contributor walks away with less than they would for a high-res or vector sale at SF. $20 at istock gets someone a large image and puts $3.40 in an independent artist's pocket. $20 at SF buys 2 of the same size image and puts $10 in the artist's pocket. Why would you want $3.40 instead of $10, in a deal where the buyers gets more and is likely happier in the end and will buy more often?

Chris56 on SS and posting and boasting like mad. He is also posting on Alamy as chris58 telling everyone he is gearing up for RM  since RF is dead. So he is around, just not here.

He can say whatever he wants, that doesn't make it so. There are too many small businesses and individuals who can't afford RM prices for there NOT to be a microstock agency. Remember, that's why it succeeded in the first place. The economy has only gotten worse since then, so it is necessary even more so today. But I do think that the number of agencies will be whittled down to a few successful ones. There is WAY too much supply for the demand.

Quote from: cthoman on August 29, 2012, 13:54

IS and SS are around $20 for high res files, so I'd put that closer to where the market is or should be. But, the market can probably bear higher prices than that. I'm not sure where the sweet spot is, but I'd put $10 at the minimum...

But we're only getting a small percentage for those sales. Higher prices like that discourage some buyers from buying more often, and the contributor walks away with less than they would for a high-res or vector sale at SF. $20 at istock gets someone a large image and puts $3.40 in an independent artist's pocket. $20 at SF buys 2 of the same size image and puts $10 in the artist's pocket. Why would you want $3.40 instead of $10, in a deal where the buyers gets more and is likely happier in the end and will buy more often?

I'm not sure what your point is. I don't think SS or IS are fair paying agencies either. Maybe my definition is too strict for what I think is fair, but I just don't find that most agencies are set up for the success of their contributors (especially long term).

I'm not sure what your point is. I don't think SS or IS are fair paying agencies either. Maybe my definition is too strict for what I think is fair, but I just don't find that most agencies are set up for the success of their contributors (especially long term).

I think I get what you're talking about. I think I'd like your definition of "fair", and in a perfect world there would be plenty of agencies around who operate under those fair conditions.

I guess I just look at "fair" as something that is more attainable given where we are and how far we can realistically go from here. When I say that I think the SF pricing scheme is fair, I mean under the current state and conditions of the market, and what I think the current market will bear.

If you don't mind me saying so, I think that your definition of fair is something that might only ever possibly exist a long time from now, if ever, and hoping to see something like that become a reality is probably nothing more than wishful thinking.

And I say that based on observations of the market, particularly istock who have been steadily raising prices and are now seemingly at a point where they've gone too high for the market to bear. It's almost impossible to imagine how any company could reach similar pricing levels while still offering a fair percentage to contributors.

I view SF as the best deal on the table, and probably the best deal we'll ever be offered by any new or current company that can actually drum up some sales in the foreseeable future. I wish things were different. I wish we could get that $20 price point with any sort of decent enough sales volume to make it sustainable and a decent enough percentage for us. But so far, it's not happening, not even at SS where they have no trouble with getting enough buyers, but they have yet to have much success with that $20 single image pricing. Don't know about you but I'm only seeing about a dozen of those per month. Definitely no where near enough to make me think that option is catching on with buyers.

I guess my point is that fair is one thing, realistically fair is another, and I think SF is the closest thing to fair that we've got right now that can realistically succeed.

I guess my point is that fair is one thing, realistically fair is another, and I think SF is the closest thing to fair that we've got right now that can realistically succeed.

I actually think they are pretty far from it. I see them as, at best, 123RF in the making. The $10 for high res isn't horrible, but when you add in subs and cheap rasters, you get severely undercut. Like I said, you average out with $1 or $2 RPD (which means you have to sell large quantities to make money). I know that model is fairly prevalent in micro, but that is why you see people stop uploading or leaving micro entirely. The money just isn't there.

I think my ideal agency would have been iStock (circa 2009-2010) that paid 50%. That seems like what micro should be, but that isn't happening. Plus, I add in that my own site being extremely competitive (for my earnings) with minimal sales, and it quickly paints a picture of getting ripped off by these sites.

I view SF as the best deal on the table, and probably the best deal we'll ever be offered by any new or current company that can actually drum up some sales in the foreseeable future.

I could name a few places that give 50-60% and allow you to set your own prices. I think the 'drum up some sales' part is crucial here.

I also sell 3d models and there is a site that charges nothing and you receive 100% from any sale (www.digitalelements.be if anyone is interested). Well ... 100% from 0 is still 0.

You could always go to Warmpicture.com: http://www.warmpicture.com/ - that is where the happy contributors are these days!! 

Steve

I'd like to join Warmpics as a contributor, how do I do that?

And where are they ranked on the chart on the right?

Are you and Chris/gyllens a tag team now for spam.  How do I get into your private club on warmpic. Tell the truth how much do you sell on warmpic? stockfresh is also private club. You and your best bud Lager are fun to watch.

Since when is it spam to tell people which companies we like?

I'd like to join Warmpics as a contributor, how do I do that?

Post a link to your portfolios in this thread and we can take a look.

Quote from: djpadavona on August 30, 2012, 19:20

Quote from: RacePhoto on August 30, 2012, 09:38

I'd like to join Warmpics as a contributor, how do I do that?

Post a link to your portfolios in this thread and we can take a look.

Why does that needs to happen in public? Why that approach? Why not do that off the boards in a decent professional manner?

Jealousy and animosity does not help here, let your pictures do the talking.

Quote from: Poncke on August 31, 2012, 05:23

Quote from: djpadavona on August 30, 2012, 19:20

Quote from: RacePhoto on August 30, 2012, 09:38

I'd like to join Warmpics as a contributor, how do I do that?

Post a link to your portfolios in this thread and we can take a look.

Why does that needs to happen in public? Why that approach? Why not do that off the boards in a decent professional manner?

Jealousy and animosity does not help here, let your pictures do the talking.

Say what?

Quote from: Poncke on August 31, 2012, 05:50

Your original reply was a bit different, a bit more insulting, and for some reason my quote of your reply got deleted and you changed your post. Very strange. Anyoo, I can assure you I am not jealous, I do have enough knowledge but what you see is not what you get, and you are anoymous as well.

 
That's because the original post was removed (moderated) and while the post was being moderated you replied so your reply was removed as well.

Fair enough. Thanks for letting me know.

I'm not trying to publicly embarrass anyone. I simply requested he post a link to his portfolio since he seemed to suggest that he wanted to be part of Warmpicture. Maybe I misinterpreted. You are free to do the same.

Dan, I know you didnt mean  to do that. I just found it a strange request.

I am not ready for the abuse yet, so I will refrain from posting my portfolio. I can take critique, but to be very honest, I am afraid that I will be completely butchered here and I am not ready for that.

I'm not trying to publicly embarrass anyone. I simply requested he post a link to his portfolio since he seemed to suggest that he wanted to be part of Warmpicture. Maybe I misinterpreted. You are free to do the same.

Just out of curiosity ... is this the official way to get accepted ? Posting links in a forum? I find it quite unusual. I would expect a good old e-mail with a link would do the trick.

Just out of curiosity ... is this the official way to get accepted ? Posting links in a forum? I find it quite unusual. I would expect a good old e-mail with a link would do the trick.

Almost every contributor currently in Warmpicture emailed me to join.

However it is important to note that I often make it a group decision among myself and a few other contributors. The emailers still remain "anonymous", since I don't feel it is relevant to share someone's message board name. But we all see their port...and some people don't feel comfortable with that.

This thread is gone off topic, and again I am part of the reason. 

I do want to point out that there should be no rush to join Warmpicture. We are a Low Earner in every sense of that description. As you would guess, trying to attract attention in a mature marketplace is very difficult.

We do have contributors which get small payouts most months. And we are seeing sales and traffic growth. But the RPI is very, very small. Nobody is "missing out." I can assure you that when our contributors are making returns which are comparable to upper Low Tier (per the poll results to the right), I will announce it proudly. Until then...let me build a buyer base for this pseudo co-op so that people who join can actually have it be worth their effort.






 

I think we'll make it worthwhile Stan. Remember that we literally started from nothing, no buyer base, no connections. It will take time.

We have one contributor who makes an RPI per month at WP which is just fantastic. She makes more at WP per image than I make at the Mid Tier agencies per image. For her, it is already worthwhile. For the rest of us, we are staying patient and knowing things will get better.

I am going to start a WP thread in the Selling Stock Direct forum a little later. Feel free to join in, and I'll share some more stats.