MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: Huge copyright infringement... what would You do?  (Read 16656 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« on: October 27, 2016, 14:44 »
+5
Hi!
[I EDITED THIS THREAD TO KEEP THE MATTER CONFIDENTIAL AS PER THE FRIENDLY SETTLEMENT I RECEIVED]

I stumbled on something major in regards to one of my Illustration. I have an illustration on sale on Shutterstock and a few other sites. Each licenses clearly states that the illustration cannot be used in a logo or to promote a trademark or service.

My illustration is now being used by a government and use in all medias (Video, prints, gifts).

I am in the process of talking with a lawyer but the asking price for this for me is confusing. They are very rich countries, but I want a fair price while considering that they did not ask or paid me anything and considering the HUGE media coverage of the image and considering they are a government and should know better.

What would you do and how much would you ask?

I'm sorry for now I cannot disclose all the images and proof before an action is taken or before I give them the chance to answer to the claim.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 11:08 by Morphart »


Justanotherphotographer

« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2016, 14:50 »
+2
I am not sure how this works as it isn't a commercial logo. Have they tried to trademark it? I wonder if a designer has tried to claim it was their work.

« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2016, 15:23 »
0
I cannot know for sure, I only see so many youtube videos, one showing a dilligent speaking on TV with a tribune showing my Illustration, then five countries armies with trumpets looking at a flag being raised... with my Illustration on it...

It's kind of big but not sure what leverage I have.

« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2016, 15:39 »
+2
Maybe you should ask at SS first, just for their opinion, is that kind of usage allowed, etc...

« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2016, 15:49 »
+4
Right.  I don't know if an image.illustration being used to promote an event is really a "logo".  I mean an illustration gets used like that.

« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2016, 16:56 »
+2
I cannot know for sure, I only see so many youtube videos, one showing a dilligent speaking on TV with a tribune showing my Illustration, then five countries armies with trumpets looking at a flag being raised... with my Illustration on it...

It's kind of big but not sure what leverage I have.

Without any more details than you've given, I don't think you have any reason to complain about their uses of your illustration.

If there are limits on numbers of impressions (print) that they've violated, they'd need an extended license. If they are distributing your vector as part of a press kit, then that's effectively a template (forbidden at some agencies; extended license at others). If they're selling tee shirts with your eagle on it then they need an extended license, but if they're just giving away swag at these meetings, then they're fine with a standard license (print run limits still apply).

The rule about no logos is that the buyer cannot copyright or trademark something with your copyrighted artwork in it. If someone uses your artwork in all their materials knowing that they can't trademark it as their logo, there's nothing to stop them licensing royalty free artwork for that purpose.

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2016, 17:50 »
+1
No logos, thems are da rules. I'd wait until after the event.... when it comes to compensation, you'll have less leverage if they pull the logo and go for another one the instant they're made aware of the issue... more if every man and his dog has a t-shirt with your image on it in their wardrobe.

« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2016, 19:12 »
+1
I thought everyone knew what their license implied here. From shutterstock licensing page:

What is not allowed with Shutterstock Licenses?
    Logos, trademark, or similar applications of images

You may not:
    Use any Visual Content (in whole or in part) as a trademark, service mark, logo, or other indication of origin, or as part thereof.

My lawyer says he is struck as it's exactly my illustration they used and we have a very solid case. I was just wondering insight here of other illustrator and how much compensation and price they would ask for such an extensive use of your illustration. (Same as a model would price a shooting depending on the use you will do with their image).

Maybe you should ask at SS first, just for their opinion, is that kind of usage allowed, etc...
Yes I have asked them but my guess is that they will check on their own interest not sure they will defend the copyrights of their contributor. Gettyimages does but contributors must be exclusive. But no using any images as a logo is prohibited by any agencies. I sold full copyrights before to companies around the world to have my image removed from Microstock and have them use it as a logo, but for this they pay the high price. For this one, it's used overmassively and I received no compensation from it.

Right.  I don't know if an image.illustration being used to promote an event is really a "logo".  I mean an illustration gets used like that.
It's not to promote an event. They created a coalition for defense with 5 contries. They used my illustration, put 5 flags around it and made a logo out of it. They use it to promote their coalition. Like I said on flags, TV shows, road ads, stationnary etc.

I am not sure how this works as it isn't a commercial logo. Have they tried to trademark it? I wonder if a designer has tried to claim it was their work.
Be it a commercial or personal or governmental logo, they are still using my image in a logo. I guess the one who sold it to they claimed it was original work, but it's not a small thing.

I cannot know for sure, I only see so many youtube videos, one showing a dilligent speaking on TV with a tribune showing my Illustration, then five countries armies with trumpets looking at a flag being raised... with my Illustration on it...

It's kind of big but not sure what leverage I have.

Without any more details than you've given, I don't think you have any reason to complain about their uses of your illustration.

If there are limits on numbers of impressions (print) that they've violated, they'd need an extended license. If they are distributing your vector as part of a press kit, then that's effectively a template (forbidden at some agencies; extended license at others). If they're selling tee shirts with your eagle on it then they need an extended license, but if they're just giving away swag at these meetings, then they're fine with a standard license (print run limits still apply).

The rule about no logos is that the buyer cannot copyright or trademark something with your copyrighted artwork in it. If someone uses your artwork in all their materials knowing that they can't trademark it as their logo, there's nothing to stop them licensing royalty free artwork for that purpose.
The license clearly states that it cannot be used as a logo. They use it on the tribune the guy on TV speaks from, they use it on a Flag with thousands of people there, they use it on all their army trucks.

Anyhow will make my own pricing and go forward with this, I thought to have better insight here as I have had in the past.

« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2016, 20:09 »
+3
It isn't a logo unless they try and trademark it. Otherwise it's just art they use in their materials.

Why are you assuming it's a logo?

« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2016, 20:13 »
+4
It is interesting to read what people think about this. But you will not really know where you stand until you get the opinion of an intellectual property attorney. IMHO.

« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2016, 21:06 »
+3
It isn't a logo unless they try and trademark it. Otherwise it's just art they use in their materials.

Why are you assuming it's a logo?

Right.  Are you envisioning people framing your illustrations for their walls?  This is what people use stock imagery for.  To accompany, illustrate and draw attention to something.  All those sports mascot illustrations?  They're used all the time for high school teams or sports bars or whatever.  Doesn't make it a logo.  A logo is protectable.  Obviously, this isn't, since you're still selling the illustration royalty free.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 21:09 by Sean Locke Photography »

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2016, 23:19 »
+2
It isn't a logo unless they try and trademark it. Otherwise it's just art they use in their materials.

Why are you assuming it's a logo?

I'm not buying that. You can have a logo without trademarking it, which although probably not the wisest of ideas, it probably can and does happen. Envato have a logo template category for items whch you can use as logos. Anything else on the site you can't use as a logo. You still can't copyright or trademark the logo though... although it's still a logo.

The text is pretty clear...

Use any Visual Content (in whole or in part) as a trademark, service mark, logo, or other indication of origin, or as part thereof.

So whether you can use the content for logos isn't really up for debate. The only point that could be argued is whether it's a logo or not, and copyrighting that logo doesn't automatically make it a logo or not. The fact it's being used as a visual representation of an event through the medium of illustration... makes me think that it's pretty clear cut. It's a logo and they shouldn't be using it as a logo. 

« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2016, 00:06 »
+3
I guess my point wasn't stated very well.

If you say my artwork used in all my print and web materials is a logo and I say it's not, how do you resolve that legally? If I'm the buyer and make materials with purchased vectors, the only clear way there's no arguing about whether it's a logo or not is if I try to protect it legally as such. I'm assuming that hasn't happened here.

Otherwise you'll head to court (or settlement negotiations) with me (buyer) saying I'm within the license terms as there's no logo here and the contributor arguing that my materials do constitute a logo and asking for more money for a different license.

Artwork doesn't become a logo just because the creator of the artwork says that's what the buyer has done with it.

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2016, 03:55 »
0
And a person doesn't become a murderer just because somebody else says they are... but that's what the lawyers, the judges and the courts are for. But in this example... we've got a severed head, a dude standing over it with a sword in his hand, and he's covered in blood... that's got to be worth a quick phone call to the cops, even if there's no guarantee he's the murderer.

You're absolutely right, but you're also splitting hairs slightly. I mean, it's a graphical symbol meant to represent an event, and a brand, across all of their marketing channels. If that doesn't constitute a logo then it's pretty * close... it's not like such a case would get laughed out of court.

Are you seriously suggesting that the guy should forget about the rules of Shutterstock being broken, and his intellectual property rights being breached, just because there's a slight chance that the logo might not be a logo, when in every conceivable way... it does seem to be a logo?

I'm sure by now there will be a legal definition of what a logo is, and although I don't know what that is, I'm pretty sure it's not going to say that a registered logo is a logo, and one that isn't, is not a logo. 

Should we do the same for all instances when people should have bought an extended license and they haven't.... because there might be some loophole or some extenuating circumstance that means they might not need one?

« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2016, 09:06 »
+2
It is interesting to read what people think about this. But you will not really know where you stand until you get the opinion of an intellectual property attorney. IMHO.

Yes I have an attorney know and he is struck at this case and that we have solid rights to make a claim. We'll see how it goes.

It isn't a logo unless they try and trademark it. Otherwise it's just art they use in their materials.

Why are you assuming it's a logo?

I have a graphic design company which I run for 10 years now. A logo doesn't have to be trademarked. By definition, a logo is a graphic mark, emblem, or symbol commonly used by commercial enterprises, organizations and even individuals to aid and promote instant public recognition. Logos are either purely graphic (symbols/icons) or are composed of the name of the organization (a logotype or wordmark).

It's clear everywhere in Microstock, illustrations simply cannot be used as a logo by anyone for anything (not even your school). If you want to use it as a logo, contact the copyright owner and buy the copyrights, that is how it is normally done.

« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2016, 09:10 »
+6
Right.  Are you envisioning people framing your illustrations for their walls?  This is what people use stock imagery for.  To accompany, illustrate and draw attention to something.  All those sports mascot illustrations?  They're used all the time for high school teams or sports bars or whatever.  Doesn't make it a logo.  A logo is protectable.  Obviously, this isn't, since you're still selling the illustration royalty free.

Sean, I have sold 262 352 illustrations license so far on Shutterstock, don't worry, I'm not shocked that people use my material.  But they have to use it for the license they paid for. If they pay me 0.38$, I will make sure they don't do international campaign and unlimited print. If they buy extended license, fine (which haven't been bought for this image). But extended license or not, they can't claim the image and make it part of their governemental logo without buying the copyrights of it. Period.

« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2016, 09:23 »
+1
I guess my point wasn't stated very well.

If you say my artwork used in all my print and web materials is a logo and I say it's not, how do you resolve that legally? If I'm the buyer and make materials with purchased vectors, the only clear way there's no arguing about whether it's a logo or not is if I try to protect it legally as such. I'm assuming that hasn't happened here.

Otherwise you'll head to court (or settlement negotiations) with me (buyer) saying I'm within the license terms as there's no logo here and the contributor arguing that my materials do constitute a logo and asking for more money for a different license.

Artwork doesn't become a logo just because the creator of the artwork says that's what the buyer has done with it.

I won't be making this claim if I wouldn't think it's a logo. And my attorney also sees this clearly. And person in my entourage I have shown it to also.

You type the organization name and LOGO in Google and you get the image.

Anyhow I will do the procedures with my attorney, and if I fail to have any payment made for the copyright breach and for them to buy the copyrights I will make this public (here) and in the international medias. It's not like it's a village high school that had a parent do a logo for them, it's a 5 government coalition that commissioned this and have it over all their countries, youtube, twitter and everywhere.

I sold copyrights of image for 4 figures for the image to be used as a logo before, but it's use was commercial in a specific country territory. Nowhere to what I am dealing with right now...


« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2016, 09:55 »
+1
I have a graphic design company which I run for 10 years now. A logo doesn't have to be trademarked. By definition, a logo is a graphic mark, emblem, or symbol commonly used by commercial enterprises, organizations and even individuals to aid and promote instant public recognition. Logos are either purely graphic (symbols/icons) or are composed of the name of the organization (a logotype or wordmark).


So, how is a commercial enterprise, organization or individual supposed to use an image like this, if not to promote public recognition of their company, event or product?

http://image.shutterstock.com/z/stock-vector-eagle-head-tattoo-design-vintage-engraved-illustration-154879832.jpg

It's essentially an icon, something that iconifies something.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 08:53 by Sean Locke Photography »


« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2016, 11:41 »
+6
I won't be making this claim if I wouldn't think it's a logo. And my attorney also sees this clearly. And person in my entourage I have shown it to also.

You type the organization name and LOGO in Google and you get the image.

Anyhow I will do the procedures with my attorney, and if I fail to have any payment made for the copyright breach and for them to buy the copyrights I will make this public (here) and in the international medias. It's not like it's a village high school that had a parent do a logo for them, it's a 5 government coalition that commissioned this and have it over all their countries, youtube, twitter and everywhere.

I sold copyrights of image for 4 figures for the image to be used as a logo before, but it's use was commercial in a specific country territory. Nowhere to what I am dealing with right now...

From your description, I agree with you that it sounds like it is definitely being used as a logo. And if your attorney says you have a case, then I guess that is what matters. I wish you luck and I hope you will keep in touch with us about the outcome.

Shelma1

  • stockcoalition.org
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2016, 12:05 »
+1
I have a graphic design company which I run for 10 years now. A logo doesn't have to be trademarked. By definition, a logo is a graphic mark, emblem, or symbol commonly used by commercial enterprises, organizations and even individuals to aid and promote instant public recognition. Logos are either purely graphic (symbols/icons) or are composed of the name of the organization (a logotype or wordmark).

So, how is a commercial enterprise, organization or individual supposed to use an image like this, if not to promote public recognition of their company, event or product?

It's essentially an icon, something that iconifies something.

SS prohibits icon use as logos. For the obvious reason that it can't be trademarked or copyrighted (is that a word?) because the artist owns the copyright and the buyer hasn't paid for copyright ownership...and hundreds or thousands of other entities are using the same icon. So that defeats the entire purpose of a logo as an exclusive identifying mark.

However, SS fairly recently relaxed their standards to allow the use of the word "logo" in descriptions and keywords, and they also had a lightbox with featured "logos" in it, so they are being a bit misleading to buyers, to put it mildly. On the one hand they allow the word and the search, and promote "logos;" on the other they have you sign a legal agreement that you won't use the icons as logos.

And vector artists (me included) of course use the word "logo," because it's a very popular search term. It's a slippery slope.

In this case the artist has NOT used the word "logo," though. And very large enterprises are well aware that such usage is prohibited. So I think he has a strong case.

The solution, I guess, would be to do what iS tried a couple of years ago (which went nowhere), which is to have a separate agreement and much higher pricing for icons that can only be sold once for use as a logo.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 12:08 by Shelma1 »

« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2016, 12:09 »
+2
While I side with morphart with this abuse, I did a simple search by design on google images and found the identical eagle on pages and pages of sites, some for sale, some I don't know what the license allows.

http://tinyurl.com/hd2plqj

How do you know where they got it? Do they credit you as the artist and the source?

Justanotherphotographer

« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2016, 14:01 »
+2
I have a graphic design company which I run for 10 years now. A logo doesn't have to be trademarked. By definition, a logo is a graphic mark, emblem, or symbol commonly used by commercial enterprises, organizations and even individuals to aid and promote instant public recognition. Logos are either purely graphic (symbols/icons) or are composed of the name of the organization (a logotype or wordmark).

So, how is a commercial enterprise, organization or individual supposed to use an image like this, if not to promote public recognition of their company, event or product?

It's essentially an icon, something that iconifies something.
Don't forget that people need lots of logos that aren't actually logos!

If I shoot an ad or tv program with people walking down the street every shop sign is going to need a logo, but not an actual logo. Whenever there's a fake company in a series they need a stock logo to fill in where a real logo would be. I have seen my work pop up in just this sort of thing.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 14:04 by Justanotherphotographer »

Shelma1

  • stockcoalition.org
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2016, 14:05 »
+3
Also, if you look at that search above, you'll see these icons described as "tattoos..." yet another use. Also as icons to highlight things in ads, to print on t-shirts....lots of uses for stylized icons.

Justanotherphotographer

« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2016, 14:41 »
+2
Just though of something else. My kids bought some clothes from the supermarket today again featuring logo-esque motifs.  You see them all the time in kids clothing isles, fake sports teams, fake scout troops, fake fire departments, armies and whatever else you can think of. Once you get onto the toy isle toy cars have fake sanitation company logos on them, fake construction company logos, can't stop thinking of examples now!


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
3 Replies
5294 Views
Last post May 26, 2010, 16:25
by litifeta
5 Replies
7283 Views
Last post December 02, 2011, 04:00
by sharpshot
29 Replies
17053 Views
Last post July 17, 2012, 22:57
by Fran
21 Replies
8533 Views
Last post December 28, 2012, 08:02
by RacePhoto
3 Replies
2464 Views
Last post June 30, 2021, 10:54
by MotionJunky

Sponsors

Mega Bundle of 5,900+ Professional Lightroom Presets

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors