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Author Topic: Lee Torrens on ELs for MS prices - FT and 123RF  (Read 3147 times)

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« on: June 04, 2012, 20:07 »
0
Interesting post. 

http://www.microstockdiaries.com/are-you-selling-extended-license-rights-for-subscription-level-royalties.html

I did not realize I was selling ELs for sub prices. :-\  (I have not actually checked that Lee is correct, but suspect he is.)


« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 00:11 »
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I thought you could set your EL price at FT to something like 100 credits.

traveler1116

« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2012, 00:29 »
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I thought you could set your EL price at FT to something like 100 credits.
This is the important line from the article:  "Fotolia and 123RF continue to include in their subscriptions the same rights which require an Extended License purchase at other agencies."

« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 02:30 »
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Don't they like money?  I used to sell lots of EL's with FT, at 50 or 100 credits.  Those have stopped, probably because buyers have switched to subs or gone elsewhere.  My earnings are so low there, I'm getting tempted to leave.  I really don't like leaving sites because most people stay there and I feel it doesn't make buyers move.  The only way to really make the sites change their policy of slowly screwing us in to the ground would be to take coordinated action.

If most of the top contributors left sites like FT and 123RF or gave them an ultimatum I would join them.  Until they get together and do something, I might as well forget about it.  I tried not uploading for over a year with istock after their commission cut and that just lost me money.

« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 03:00 »
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If most of the top contributors left sites like FT and 123RF or gave them an ultimatum I would join them.  Until they get together and do something, I might as well forget about it.  I tried not uploading for over a year with istock after their commission cut and that just lost me money.

This is the real of dilemma of contributor rights in microstock.

grafix04

« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2012, 03:53 »
0
Interesting.  I just scanned through some standard RF license agreements and found the following:

AgentWeb ReproductionsPrint ReproductionsSeatsResolution (pixels)
Shutterstock
250,000
250,000
Single
800 x 600
iStockphoto
500,000 *1
500,000 *1
Single
1200 x 800
Fotolia
Unlimited
Unlimited
Unlimited
1000 x 1000
Dreamstime
Unlimited
500,000
Single
800 width
DepositPhotos
500,000
500,000
Single
1024 x 678
123rf
250,000
250,000
Single? *2
No restrictions
Bigstock
Unlimited but *3
Unlimited but *3
Single
1200 x 800
Canstock
500,000
500,000
Single
600 x 800
Veer
500,000
500,000
Single
800 x 600
Stockfresh
Unlimited
250,000
Single
800 x 600
GLStockImages
10,000
10,000
Unlimited
No restrictions

* Notes
1. Excess Reproduction Run for iStockphoto is invoiced to buyer - does this mean no additional commission is paid to the contributor?
2. Number of seats is not mentioned in the standard licence restrictions for 123rf, however they do over an unlimited multi-seat EL.
3. Limited reproduction however usage granted to only one type and must purchase separate license for each type.

Fotolia seems to be the worst of all of them.  No surprises there. I might add this to a separate thread so we can keep it updated and add more agents as we go along.   I've highlighted the ones that need attention in red.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 03:55 by grafix04 »

Microbius

« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2012, 03:56 »
0
Thank you very much for going to the effort of putting the table together. Really interesting to see it laid out like that.

@leaf, should the new thread be sticky at top of the General Stock Discussion section like the list of partner programs thread?

grafix04

« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2012, 04:11 »
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No worries.  I went a little cross-eyed after reading so many license agreements so if I've missed anything, let me know and I'll fix it in the new thread which is here: 

http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/comparison-of-standard-rf-license-agreements/msg258703/?topicseen#new

drugal

    This user is banned.
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2012, 04:13 »
0
Interesting.  I just scanned through some standard RF license agreements and found the following:

AgentWeb ReproductionsPrint ReproductionsSeatsResolution (pixels)
Shutterstock
250,000
250,000
Single
800 x 600
iStockphoto
500,000 *1
500,000 *1
Single
1200 x 800
Fotolia
Unlimited
Unlimited
Unlimited
1000 x 1000
Dreamstime
Unlimited
500,000
Single
800 width
DepositPhotos
500,000
500,000
Single
1024 x 678
123rf
250,000
250,000
Single? *2
No restrictions
Bigstock
Unlimited but *3
Unlimited but *3
Single
1200 x 800
Canstock
500,000
500,000
Single
600 x 800
Veer
500,000
500,000
Single
800 x 600
Stockfresh
Unlimited
250,000
Single
800 x 600
GLStockImages
10,000
10,000
Unlimited
No restrictions

* Notes
1. Excess Reproduction Run for iStockphoto is invoiced to buyer - does this mean no additional commission is paid to the contributor?
2. Number of seats is not mentioned in the standard licence restrictions for 123rf, however they do over an unlimited multi-seat EL.
3. Limited reproduction however usage granted to only one type and must purchase separate license for each type.

Fotolia seems to be the worst of all of them.  No surprises there. I might add this to a separate thread so we can keep it updated and add more agents as we go along.   I've highlighted the ones that need attention in red.


RF is ragtag nonsense as always... what web reproductions # supposed to mean f.e.? But this hardly matters at all. First of all the reproduction numbers are so huge they are basically unlimited anyway. I'v done flyers for giants like cocacola, and even those don't exceed those print numbers most of the times. Second: believe me almost nobody cares about this, 99% percent of clients see microstock pictures as unlimited usage in every aspect, probably never ever read the licensing terms, just the promo text... just like many ppl here as it seems.

« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2012, 05:17 »
0
Thank you very much for going to the effort of putting the table together. Really interesting to see it laid out like that.

@leaf, should the new thread be sticky at top of the General Stock Discussion section like the list of partner programs thread?


Yeah, that's a good idea. I'll make the other thread sticky
http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/comparison-of-standard-rf-license-agreements/

grafix04

« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2012, 05:49 »
0
RF is ragtag nonsense as always... what web reproductions # supposed to mean f.e.? But this hardly matters at all. First of all the reproduction numbers are so huge they are basically unlimited anyway. I'v done flyers for giants like cocacola, and even those don't exceed those print numbers most of the times. Second: believe me almost nobody cares about this, 99% percent of clients see microstock pictures as unlimited usage in every aspect, probably never ever read the licensing terms, just the promo text... just like many ppl here as it seems.

Not true, 'dribble', I often have buyers buying more than of the same image at a time.  I'm sure others do as well.  This could only be to allow them additional print runs or multiple seats usage.  If 99% of buyers didn't read the licensing terms, we wouldn't be selling ELs.

Web reproductions:  Didn't really know what to call it but basically it includes anything that's not print.  Images used in software, eBooks and the like.  What do you suggest I call this master 'Dribble'?

« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2012, 12:22 »
0
in fotolia

Extended X price range is [10-50], if i set to 50 which is maximum to me, i saw my share is 23% which is 11.5, does it mean I will only get 11.5 for extended license? it is very little.

drugal

    This user is banned.
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2012, 18:23 »
0

Not true, 'dribble', I often have buyers buying more than of the same image at a time.  I'm sure others do as well.  This could only be to allow them additional print runs or multiple seats usage.  If 99% of buyers didn't read the licensing terms, we wouldn't be selling ELs.


You 'would be' getting ELs... from that rare 1%. I was an art director / grafic artist at ad agencies ( both ATL and BTL - do you know what those are? :) ) You know, we were the guys you produced the stuff for - the buyers. Thats why I know what most of you are only guessing, how it works on the other side. I worked at several agencies over the years. Over those years I only met one, I mean 1 person who knew basically anything about licences or about the whole microstock thing's workings except for seeing that there are lots searchable pretty pics on a site from who knows (and cares) where. That was a graphic artist girl who only knew this stuff because her boyfriend was a microstock shooter. The bosses / owners who decided where to shop, and how to buy  almost always got to the sites by word of mouth, and that  applied to the knowledge of the terms too. They were told, that hey here is this istock site, really cheap, download the pic and use it as long as you want for anything it's great... and that was pretty much it. Everybody hoarded pics, especially really generic stuff like backgrounds in folders so they can reuse them instantly. They were mixed up there with stuff from free sites like sxc, nobody even knew or cared about which is which. Actually after a while they often hoarded so many pics, that it was faster to search on a well built website like SS, so they went back there just out of convenience.



Web reproductions:  Didn't really know what to call it but basically it includes anything that's not print.  Images used in software, eBooks and the like.  What do you suggest I call this master 'Dribble'?


I wasn't talking about the obvious term, but the # - number of reproductions, you genius :) What does that supposed to mean on the web?? Lets say if there were lawyers arguing over it in court?

grafix04

« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2012, 21:15 »
0
{more dribble}

You know it would be really great if that ignore feature worked even when people are signed out. 

Microstock Man

  • microstockman.com

« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2012, 22:16 »
0
This is VERY interesting stuff. Hopefully some of the company reps will care to chime in on this thread and explain why they are out of line with the rest of the industry.

drugal

    This user is banned.
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2012, 02:04 »
0
{more dribble}

You know it would be really great if that ignore feature worked even when people are signed out. 

If you hate getting some insight into things, and you don't have anything to say basically, why do you come to a forum?

« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2012, 02:55 »
0
in fotolia

Extended X price range is [10-50], if i set to 50 which is maximum to me, i saw my share is 23% which is 11.5, does it mean I will only get 11.5 for extended license? it is very little.

Yeah - also the terms of the EL are less restrictive than on other sites...


 

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