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Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: borg on March 27, 2013, 08:54

Title: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 27, 2013, 08:54
Please chose three of agencies!
After 7 days we should start to promote  "The winning agency" on every possible way!
Synergistic effect should be successful, if  thousands of contributors do the same thing in same time!

Let it be our reward for the best agency with benefits for all of us!

Also "a warning" to greediest!

Thank you!

Contributors!
Best paying agencies may not be the most friendlier agency! Our part of earnings is the most important thing here...
We are trying to get more money from our work, not to bring new customers to best and big earners with low royalty rate...
So if you agree with me, try to give more chance to friendly agencies which are giving bigger "part of cake" to us!
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on March 27, 2013, 09:17
I don't currently submit to any of those. Haven't we tried this before and you can never get a consensus? I guess it doesn't hurt to try again though.
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: stocked on March 27, 2013, 09:23
Symbiostock and Stocksy are missing  :(
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Microbius on March 27, 2013, 09:24
Symbiostock is not an agency, it is a way of selling on your own, and of course is what anyone involved should be promoting (when it is off the ground)
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 27, 2013, 09:31
Poll results will be consensus... We can try, on social networks, our websites, emails etc.
I think it is good way to fight for our interests...

Please keep on mind that our part of earnings should be on the first place in poll decisions, no matter how big agency is, or how much money we get from them at the end of month!

After poll's end we can start together, 1 month of synergistic  promotion will be enough to see results!

P.S.

Poll's agencies are rated agencies in "Microstock Poll results (column right)
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: sharpshot on March 27, 2013, 09:34
Someone voted for istock and FT.  They must of either misread the poll, work for the sites or a village is missing its idiot :)
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: stocked on March 27, 2013, 09:35
Someone voted for istock and FT.  They must of either misread the poll, work for the sites or a village is missing its idiot :)
LOL  :D
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on March 27, 2013, 09:41
Someone voted for istock and FT.  They must of either misread the poll, work for the sites or a village is missing its idiot :)

Hey, if you make the most at those site, you might as well defend your territory. That seems to be what most people do.
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: stocked on March 27, 2013, 09:42
....and of course is what anyone......should be promoting.....
+1 ;-)
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: grsphoto on March 27, 2013, 11:22
I would really like to support the "better" sites, but I am trying to do this as a business.  If the "better" sites supported me...as a small timer and newbie... I would be happy to help them.  The problem is the sales I get are at the big two.

The only way I can afford to generate enough content for the "better" sites to be interested is to feed and support the big guys.

Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 27, 2013, 12:16
Every new customer on GL StockImages mean more money in my pocket...
If that customer goes to iStock due to better Getty's marketing that mean less money in my pocket!
What should I do?
I can promote my GL portfolio,for example!
It's a big difference between 16% and 50%...

 After seven days, when we will start our campaign, so just promote your portfolio of winning agency! That's it!
If we do together, we could make good thing for all of us!


Less than 7 days till big marketing impact on this industry!!!
Fight for your effort!


PREPARE YOURSELF FOR OUR "SHOCK AND AWE"!
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: morning.light on March 27, 2013, 13:40
I made the most money on Canstock but I voted for Shutterstock here. I just like their professionalism and they also sell a lot of pictures. There are a few parts I still don't like about them but life can't be entirely pink.
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: WarrenPrice on March 27, 2013, 13:44
I made the most money on Canstock but I voted for Shutterstock here. I just like their professionalism and they also sell a lot of pictures. There are a few parts I still don't like about them but life can't be entirely pink.

Really?   :o
Was that for a month or over an extended period of time?

Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: lisafx on March 27, 2013, 14:21
I only voted for one.  Anyway to reset for me so I can vote for the other two?
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: heywoody on March 27, 2013, 14:32
I made the most money on Canstock but I voted for Shutterstock here. I just like their professionalism and they also sell a lot of pictures. There are a few parts I still don't like about them but life can't be entirely pink.

Really?   :o
Was that for a month or over an extended period of time?

If someone has 1000 images on Canstock and 50 on SS that might work (no suggestion that is the actual case here)
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: palagarde on March 27, 2013, 14:47
Quote
Please chose three of agencies!
After 7 days we should start to promote  "The winning agency" on every possible way!
Synergistic effect should be successful, if  thousands of contributors do the same thing in same time!

Let it be our reward for the best agency with benefits for all of us!

Also "a warning" to greediest!

Thank you!

Great!!!
I think exactly the same, I'm with you at 110%.
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 27, 2013, 15:40
Thank you guys!
I think this is the easiest way for maximum possible results!

It's still weird to me that other opposite pool today has more votes than this...
This doesn't mean that we have to stop selling on" non-friendly" sites, just attempt to promote better deals for us, with message of course ;-)...
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: tdoes on March 27, 2013, 16:05
This could be an opportunity to get some of the low earners that pay the most a bump in popularity with the buyers.  Imagine if Veer became a big player!
Title: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: disorderly on March 27, 2013, 16:22
This could be an opportunity to get some of the low earners that pay the most a bump in popularity with the buyers.  Imagine if Veer became a big player!

Sounds awful.  Poor sales, low upload limits, slow reviews, lots of rejections.  Veer is the last agency I'd want to promote.
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Pilens on March 27, 2013, 16:40
...
It's still weird to me that other opposite pool today has more votes than this...

Complaining still seems to be easier for some folks than actually trying to do something for the better.

I love your initiative and will be part of the campaign. Even the smallest bit might help.
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on March 27, 2013, 16:50
...
It's still weird to me that other opposite pool today has more votes than this...

Complaining still seems to be easier for some folks than actually trying to do something for the better.

I love your initiative and will be part of the campaign. Even the smallest bit might help.

It wasn't necessarily started as a complaint thread. It was more to get a complete picture. If Agency X is simultaneously the favorite and least favorite agency, should that be the one you promote? It doesn't look like that's the case though.
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 27, 2013, 16:57
Yes cthoman!
Your intentions are obviously positive! Picture can be clearer with the opposite poll...
But as Pilens said: "Complaining still seems to be easier for some folks than actually trying to do something for the better."
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: gillian vann on March 27, 2013, 18:11
I can't imagine why anyone would vote for iS and FT, I see their ads all over the internet anyway (in addition to the obvious). last night I was playing with my school's fair website and they have stock images from FT that i can use (geez, I hope they were paid for!).
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: tdoes on March 27, 2013, 20:42
This could be an opportunity to get some of the low earners that pay the most a bump in popularity with the buyers.  Imagine if Veer became a big player!

Sounds awful.  Poor sales, low upload limits, slow reviews, lots of rejections.  Veer is the last agency I'd want to promote.

More buyers would most likely change everything except the rejection policy.  More buyers would increase sales which should enable Veer to increase their staff to run a more efficient business to benefit us contributors.  I like the money the average sale generates at this site!
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: palagarde on March 27, 2013, 21:42
When I see results for shutterstock  :o

Perhaps some contributors think it's a poll for "The best contributor money agency".

Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Pilens on March 27, 2013, 21:45
...
It's still weird to me that other opposite pool today has more votes than this...

Complaining still seems to be easier for some folks than actually trying to do something for the better.

I love your initiative and will be part of the campaign. Even the smallest bit might help.

It wasn't necessarily started as a complaint thread. It was more to get a complete picture. If Agency X is simultaneously the favorite and least favorite agency, should that be the one you promote? It doesn't look like that's the case though.

Both polls will deliver more insight than just one of them. I was referring to the 20+ people that have voted in your poll but didn't here. Also, it seems, there's more to discuss in your thread than it is here. It's just an observation. A sad one if you'd ask me.
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: lisafx on March 27, 2013, 22:40
I suspect there are more votes and more discussion in the other poll because there is more of a consensus on which sites are the worst. 

Choosing the best site(s) is more difficult because we may each have different criteria.   
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: tab62 on March 27, 2013, 23:50
well, the village has lost 7 idiots so far  :-[

Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 28, 2013, 05:08
I suspect there are more votes and more discussion in the other poll because there is more of a consensus on which sites are the worst. 

Choosing the best site(s) is more difficult because we may each have different criteria.

Yes!
This is an indication of disorganization of contributors, who prefer more to complain than work in their favor...
So conclusion is that likely contributors are mainly guilty for their destiny with royalties story!

People! Best of agencies in earnings may not be the most friendlier agency! Our part of earnings is the most important thing here...
We are trying to get more money from our work, not to bring new customers to best earners with lower royalty rate...
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Mantis on March 28, 2013, 07:20
When I see results for shutterstock  :o

Perhaps some contributors think it's a poll for "The best contributor money agency".

I voted for GL and P5.
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 28, 2013, 08:41
Thank you guys!
I am glad to see GL on first place, but SS is very close!
I like SS, but they are already big enough, but also with unclear royalty rate!

Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cobalt on March 28, 2013, 08:47
Didnīt SS say somewhere they paid out over 42 million to their artists last year? and that in 2012 their revenue was 160 million? That would make it 26% of gross revenue. But I donīt know if these numbers are correct, maybe someone can find the data on the internet somewhere.

The good thing about SS is that it is publicly traded their data is transparent. You can also buy shares and be a co owner, even on a small scale. Just one share is enough to go to their yearly meetings and ask questions if you want to.

I think the transparency of the business data is a big plus for them.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 28, 2013, 09:07
Que Sera, Sera! Whatever Will Be, Will Be!

If SS wins, we'll promote them! That would be great message to all other big agencies!
We are with them, SS is with us!

We shall promote them in France, we shall promote our friendly agency on the seas and oceans, we shall promote them with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our effort, whatever the cost may be. We shall promote that agency on the beaches, we shall advertise them on the landing grounds, we shall advertise in the fields and in the streets, we shall advertise in the hills; we shall never surrender!


 ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on March 28, 2013, 09:39
Que Sera, Sera! Whatever Will Be, Will Be!

If SS wins, we'll promote them! That would be great message to all other big agencies!
We are with them, SS is with us!

We shall promote them in France, we shall promote our friendly agency on the seas and oceans, we shall promote them with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our effort, whatever the cost may be. We shall promote that agency on the beaches, we shall advertise them on the landing grounds, we shall advertise in the fields and in the streets, we shall advertise in the hills; we shall never surrender!


 ;) ;) ;)

LOL. Yeah, I can't say that would be my choice at all, but I gave up campaigning a long time ago. I've got my strategy. They've got their strategy.
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: morning.light on March 28, 2013, 10:05
I made the most money on Canstock but I voted for Shutterstock here. I just like their professionalism and they also sell a lot of pictures. There are a few parts I still don't like about them but life can't be entirely pink.

Really?   :o
Was that for a month or over an extended period of time?

If someone has 1000 images on Canstock and 50 on SS that might work (no suggestion that is the actual case here)

The difference between the two websites is around 100 files. I made more on Canstock because I keep selling files for big prices, while my sales on SS are mostly 0.25 dollars sales. So even if I had 70 sales on SS, I made more on Canstock with just 10 sales. 3 months passed and SS is still not surpassing the amount that I made on Canstock. Not sure if the situation will remain like this but I can't complain at the moment  :D
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on March 28, 2013, 10:36
Not sure why so many people have voted for SS.   There are other places I'd much rather send buyers to  where my RPD is much more than at SS. The fact that so many people make more money there than anywere else means that they are taking customers away from places that pay us more per download. DT give me an RPD of 2 or 3 times more than SS for instance.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: morning.light on March 28, 2013, 11:13
Not sure why so many people have voted for SS.   There are other places I'd much rather send buyers to  where my RPD is much more than at SS. The fact that so many people make more money there than anywere else means that they are taking customers away from places that pay us more per download. DT give me an RPD of 2 or 3 times more than SS for instance.

Happy for you but for example, DT doesn't sell at all for me. For every 50 sales on SS I have 1-2 sales on DT...so tell me, why would I vote for it? Also, the discussion was about the most contributor friendly agency, and DT is on the top of my black list. Their stupid rejections drive me crazy...
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on March 28, 2013, 11:26
Not sure why so many people have voted for SS.   There are other places I'd much rather send buyers to  where my RPD is much more than at SS. The fact that so many people make more money there than anywere else means that they are taking customers away from places that pay us more per download. DT give me an RPD of 2 or 3 times more than SS for instance.

Happy for you but for example, DT doesn't sell at all for me. For every 50 sales on SS I have 1-2 sales on DT...so tell me, why would I vote for it? Also, the discussion was about the most contributor friendly agency, and DT is on the top of my black list. Their stupid rejections drive me crazy...
I thought that the point of the poll was to promote sites that we want to sell at not where we already sell.  It makes sense to me to sell at the place that gives the biggest RPD.  An average dl for me at SS brings me less than 80c at DT the average for the last year is 2.61$.  I know where I'd rather send customers.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: dingles on March 28, 2013, 11:30
I know it is new, but maybe Stocksy should be up there. Since it is new, they could use our help...and if it takes off, it only means good things for us if we choose to participate. They have good pricing and offer the best returns for contributors. Hell it's what they say they stand for.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on March 28, 2013, 11:36
I know it is new, but maybe Stocksy should be up there. Since it is new, they could use our help...and if it takes off, it only means good things for us if we choose to participate. They have good pricing and offer the best returns for contributors. Hell it's what they say they stand for.
I agree to a certain extent but I don't think that you are going to find many people promoting them until they find out if they are in or not.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on March 28, 2013, 11:43
Not sure why so many people have voted for SS.   There are other places I'd much rather send buyers to  where my RPD is much more than at SS. The fact that so many people make more money there than anywere else means that they are taking customers away from places that pay us more per download. DT give me an RPD of 2 or 3 times more than SS for instance.

I hear you. I usually promote my own site and its RPD is 24 times SS's RPD. That seems to make the most sense to me.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: dingles on March 28, 2013, 11:43
Yeah, I guess it is a bit of a catch22 as they will want to grow to support more contributors, but will need promotion to do so...For all we know maybe they have start up funds to market...or maybe they are relying on the current contributors or both. They sound great from a contributor perspective, but they need something to appeal to buyers...their pricing is a good start :)
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on March 28, 2013, 11:46
Yeah, I guess it is a bit of a catch22 as they will want to grow to support more contributors, but will need promotion to do so...For all we know maybe they have start up funds to market...or maybe they are relying on the current contributors or both. They sound great from a contributor perspective, but they need something to appeal to buyers...their pricing is a good start :)
I really want it to work and hope that I am accepted but at the moment it would seem a bit premature to send clients to a site that I don't contribute to.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: asmai on March 28, 2013, 12:19
I voted for Pond5. I think Pond5 should stand out here, you set the price and you get 50%. Initially i also liked Alamy, but now, i get 30% and the price can get really low (RF) without that i could do anything about it. This month for example, i got 3 RF sale for about 7$ each (of which i get 30%), then they got refunded, and the same were bought the same day (obviously it's an exchange) , a larger size at 5$ each (i get 30% of that). I think it's just became ridiculous. As for SS it makes up 40- 50% of my earning, but RPD is just too low it makes me feel like my work is given away for free, and the fact that they make the most part of my earning makes it difficult to drop them, but i have stopped uploading new content to them since i started my own site, only Pond5 and Zazzle wil get all my  new content from now on.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 28, 2013, 12:24
I just signed up my new Pond5 account!

Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: sharpshot on March 28, 2013, 15:11
I don't think any of the big 4 sites should be in the poll.  They don't need us to promote them.  They entered the market early and got a lot of buyers.  They pay us low percentage commissions, knowing we rely on their strong sales volume.

To promote any of them ahead of sites like GL, P5, YM and SF would be crazy.  I know some people want SS to takeover everything but then we would be in the same position as istock exclusives, relying on just one site.  I don't like the thought of that.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: EmberMike on March 28, 2013, 15:50
Not sure why so many people have voted for SS...

Yeah, it's a mystery to me. I guess the istock folks were right, and it's really not money that will make us happy.

The fact is, if we were able to take all of the buyers at SS and move them over to a better paying site, we'd all be doing a heck of a lot better financially. I'm averaging just under $4 RPD at Stockfresh, while I average about $0.55 at SS.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 28, 2013, 17:06
I don't think any of the big 4 sites should be in the poll.  They don't need us to promote them.  They entered the market early and got a lot of buyers.  They pay us low percentage commissions, knowing we rely on their strong sales volume.

To promote any of them ahead of sites like GL, P5, YM and SF would be crazy.  I know some people want SS to takeover everything but then we would be in the same position as istock exclusives, relying on just one site.  I don't like the thought of that.

Yes! I put all  rated agencies from "Microstock poll results"....
It was my mistake!


Or at the end of this poll we can open a referendum question about this...
Still, I hope that SS won't be a winner!
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: heywoody on March 28, 2013, 17:41
People vote for SS because it earns the most money for them, they have a low cost model but have the volumes to generate relatively decent returns and they are by far the most professionally run site.  If we make the assumption that folks are doing this for the money rather than getting a nice warm fuzzy feeling, you pick your sites based on results.  Mickey mouse "fair" sites are all very well and good but how many people would delete their IS ports to put them on say GL?
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on March 28, 2013, 18:13
People vote for SS because it earns the most money for them, they have a low cost model but have the volumes to generate relatively decent returns and they are by far the most professionally run site.  If we make the assumption that folks are doing this for the money rather than getting a nice warm fuzzy feeling, you pick your sites based on results.  Mickey mouse "fair" sites are all very well and good but how many people would delete their IS ports to put them on say GL?

One? Me.  ;D
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 28, 2013, 18:32
Nobody suggest you to delete your IS portfolio...
I am talking that from first moment on this forum.
Why to destroy one of selling channels of existing or old photos...
But every buyer more on GL or P5 mean less buyers on IS, which mean more money in our pocket!
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on March 28, 2013, 18:38
People vote for SS because it earns the most money for them, they have a low cost model but have the volumes to generate relatively decent returns and they are by far the most professionally run site.  If we make the assumption that folks are doing this for the money rather than getting a nice warm fuzzy feeling, you pick your sites based on results.  Mickey mouse "fair" sites are all very well and good but how many people would delete their IS ports to put them on say GL?
It isn't about deleting ports it's about sending buyers from the sites that pay low commissions to those that pay high commissions. 
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: heywoody on March 28, 2013, 19:11
I'm not a buyer of images but, like everyone, I am a buyer of goods and services and my decisions on where to purchase are based on value and quality - the happiness of the suppliers or workers doesn't enter into it.  If folks want buyers to move they have to move the product first.
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: tdoes on March 28, 2013, 19:24
This could be an opportunity to get some of the low earners that pay the most a bump in popularity with the buyers.  Imagine if Veer became a big player!

Sounds awful.  Poor sales, low upload limits, slow reviews, lots of rejections.  Veer is the last agency I'd want to promote.

More buyers would most likely change everything except the rejection policy.  More buyers would increase sales which should enable Veer to increase their staff to run a more efficient business to benefit us contributors.  I like the money the average sale generates at this site!

I realized that this poll was about voting on "The best contributor friendly agency" and not about us deciding on what agencies we should help promote together to increase our sales.

Wish that could be a goal!
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: linma on March 28, 2013, 20:16
I'm a individual contributor, send the image to SS/IS/DT...6 -7 site, based on the list at the right side, I have a intrest on GL too at this moment, could someone tell me why so many people vote GL as a friendly agency? Thanks.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: EmberMike on March 28, 2013, 20:54
People vote for SS because it earns the most money for them, they have a low cost model but have the volumes to generate relatively decent returns and they are by far the most professionally run site.  If we make the assumption that folks are doing this for the money rather than getting a nice warm fuzzy feeling, you pick your sites based on results.  Mickey mouse "fair" sites are all very well and good but how many people would delete their IS ports to put them on say GL?

I'm one of those people who makes the most money from SS. I do this for the money, full-time. I don't care about the warm-and-fuzzies, I care about putting food on the table. And I also picked the sites I picked in this poll based on the results I want to see. Shutterstock, averaging $0.50 in my pocket per sale, is not the kind of results I want more of. No one wants that. Sure those $0.50 average earnings add up to thousands of dollars, but I'd be far better off if I took each one of those sales and moved them over to Stockfresh, GL, etc.

It is completely irrational to vote for SS in this poll. It makes zero sense. I get that people are voting based on total earnings, but that's not the right way to look at this.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on March 28, 2013, 21:30
I'm one of those people who makes the most money from SS. I do this for the money, full-time. I don't care about the warm-and-fuzzies, I care about putting food on the table. And I also picked the sites I picked in this poll based on the results I want to see. Shutterstock, averaging $0.50 in my pocket per sale, is not the kind of results I want more of. No one wants that. Sure those $0.50 average earnings add up to thousands of dollars, but I'd be far better off if I took each one of those sales and moved them over to Stockfresh, GL, etc.

It is completely irrational to vote for SS in this poll. It makes zero sense. I get that people are voting based on total earnings, but that's not the right way to look at this.

I tend to agree. Shutterstock has always been courteous to me in my dealings with them and one of my top overall earners, but they are still my lowest per sale earner. So, it is hard to escape the fact that all of that comes at a price. If a fraction of those sales came from other sites, I would earn somewhere between a little more money to a veritable @ss load more. So... It's not all about warm fuzzies.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: EmberMike on March 28, 2013, 21:41
I tend to agree. Shutterstock has always been courteous to me in my dealings with them and one of my top overall earners, but they are still my lowest per sale earner. So, it is hard to escape the fact that all of that comes at a price. If a fraction of those sales came from other sites, I would earn somewhere between a little more money to a veritable @ss load. So... It's not all about warm fuzzies.

Yep, that's it. I have no hard feelings toward Shutterstock, I like the company and the people, etc. But there's no denying the fact that if some of my SS sales were shifted over to another company, I'd be making more money. Like you said, somewhere between a little more money and... :)

I'm sure someone could quote me as saying something in this forum in the past along the lines of "RPD is a sucker's statistic." In many regards, I still believe that. If I'm using RPD to decide who to do business with and that leads me to exclude a low RPD company like Shutterstock, then yes, I'm a sucker and I'm missing out on some good money. Like it or not, if you want to earn the most money possible in this business, you need to be working with Shutterstock.

But in this discussion, if we're talking about which companies can help us earn more money with the exact same portfolios we have today, RPD is what matters, and unfortunately SS doesn't have it.

Again, nothing against SS. I've had nothing but a positive experience with SS and I'm satisfied with how things are going. I've had SS employees in my home to talk shop, and I'd welcome them back any time. Great people, smart people, lots of folks are doing good things over there at SS HQ. Just in the context of this particular discussion, SS really can't be at the top of anyone's list.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Pilens on March 28, 2013, 22:08
I tend to agree. Shutterstock has always been courteous to me in my dealings with them and one of my top overall earners, but they are still my lowest per sale earner. So, it is hard to escape the fact that all of that comes at a price. If a fraction of those sales came from other sites, I would earn somewhere between a little more money to a veritable @ss load. So... It's not all about warm fuzzies.

Yep, that's it. I have no hard feelings toward Shutterstock, I like the company and the people, etc. But there's no denying the fact that if some of my SS sales were shifted over to another company, I'd be making more money. Like you said, somewhere between a little more money and... :)

I'm sure someone could quote me as saying something in this forum in the past along the lines of "RPD is a sucker's statistic." In many regards, I still believe that. If I'm using RPD to decide who to do business with and that leads me to exclude a low RPD company like Shutterstock, then yes, I'm a sucker and I'm missing out on some good money. Like it or not, if you want to earn the most money possible in this business, you need to be working with Shutterstock.

But in this discussion, if we're talking about which companies can help us earn more money with the exact same portfolios we have today, RPD is what matters, and unfortunately SS doesn't have it.

Again, nothing against SS. I've had nothing but a positive experience with SS and I'm satisfied with how things are going. I've had SS employees in my home to talk shop, and I'd welcome them back any time. Great people, smart people, lots of folks are doing good things over there at SS HQ. Just in the context of this particular discussion, SS really can't be at the top of anyone's list.


Yes, I agree 100%. I just have to add that while RPD should be the major factor for deciding whom to campaign for, royalty rates, ease of submission, review process ... are also important pieces of the puzzle. My RPD at iStock, for example, isn't at all that bad BUT...
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Lizard on March 28, 2013, 22:52
For now I would promote only  symbiostock project , because we pay all others for promotion already, don't they always say that's one reason why their part of the sale has to be so high?  Or not?



Also, votes are to widely spread,  so u can not expect that after the winner is claimed  those majority starts follow minority of winning-losing  side.

First, maybe an option for promoting more of them (to include more contributors because not all are ready to choose only  1.

Maybe we should even make a ranked list and promote list of fair sites for buyers...lets put 3, 5, even 7 which  got most votes...and then really start promoting one of them who suits us most from the list  individually,  while somehow promoting fair sites top 5 friendly list altogether.

Buyers also like to chose, so, give them a site u promote, but also a list from they can choose from if they don't like your first suggestion.
No site won't have nothing against being on that list , and some will maybe miss being on it a bit.

It does not have to stay same, some can get off a better one may jump in...we decide its not static,hey you can open another pole in a month :)

If we start promote strong enough, and list gets wide value, some may conclude its better to throw a bit more than competitor and and get on list replacing him.




And then again maybe i went too far  in wrong direction , but is there one of you who cannot try to pick one of  lets say 5 pool winning sites,  or  even only chooses a site of his like that's not on the list,  but then promotes the list also.



So I vote lets pick them as a ranked list and promote (5,7,9, your choice) but in ranked mode.




Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Metsafile on March 29, 2013, 00:28
Have a close look at the poll chart. Something is not right. Pond5 or Stockfresh?
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on March 29, 2013, 04:00



Also, votes are to widely spread,  so u can not expect that after the winner is claimed  those majority starts follow minority of winning-losing  side.


I agree.  If SS were being promoted there is no way that I would ever send clients there.  I really like the company but I would be shooting myself in the foot if I sent buyers there.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on March 29, 2013, 04:01
For now I would promote only  symbiostock project , because we pay all others for promotion already, don't they always say that's one reason why their part of the sale has to be so high?  Or not?




I think that is the most sensible answer once we all have our ports there.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 29, 2013, 04:55
For now I would promote only  symbiostock project , because we pay all others for promotion already, don't they always say that's one reason why their part of the sale has to be so high?  Or not?


I think that is the most sensible answer once we all have our ports there.

Heh! Where is the point!

Big agencies are making our earnings part smaller, time to time, with that apology...
They are  mutually struggling for market with our money, which means that only marketing companies make profit at the end...
So we have costly competition between FT,IS, DT, etc. , at our expense, even if we have same portfolios on every agency...

From our point of view that is catastrophic!
Great "marketing beast" devours us, since "the burden of marketing" is on our side ..
16% of royalty on iStock tells everything!
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: RacePhoto on March 29, 2013, 10:25
I don't currently submit to any of those. Haven't we tried this before and you can never get a consensus? I guess it doesn't hurt to try again though.

Help the confused. You are on a Microstock Forum and you don't contribute to "any of those"?

Are you 100% independent, your own site only or where do you contribute.

Yes, like Lisa, selective, I only voted for two.
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on March 29, 2013, 10:33
I don't currently submit to any of those. Haven't we tried this before and you can never get a consensus? I guess it doesn't hurt to try again though.

Help the confused. You are on a Microstock Forum and you don't contribute to "any of those"?

Are you 100% independent, your own site only or where do you contribute.

Yes, like Lisa, selective, I only voted for two.

I have portfolios on many of them, but I don't add new files to any of them. I have 3 or 4 sites that get my new images, but none of them were included in the poll.
Title: Re: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: RacePhoto on March 29, 2013, 10:47
Thanks, that makes more sense.

I guess I read it as "I don't submit to any of them" meaning you don't have anything there. Two different things.

Hope the sites you do use actively are working well.

I don't currently submit to any of those. Haven't we tried this before and you can never get a consensus? I guess it doesn't hurt to try again though.

Help the confused. You are on a Microstock Forum and you don't contribute to "any of those"?

Are you 100% independent, your own site only or where do you contribute.

Yes, like Lisa, selective, I only voted for two.

I have portfolios on many of them, but I don't add new files to any of them. I have 3 or 4 sites that get my new images, but none of them were included in the poll.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 29, 2013, 11:42
Many exclusives on some sites don't like actions like this... So it also could be a sign of big potential...

Cthoman, I'm sorry if your agencies are not on the Poll's list... I put all rated agencies from MSG (column right), which mean that contributors mostly work with them...
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on March 29, 2013, 12:26
Many exclusives on some sites don't like actions like this... So it also could be a sign of big potential...

Cthoman, I'm sorry if your agencies are not on the Poll's list... I put all rated agencies from MSG (column right), which mean that contributors mostly work with them...

No problem. I mainly just submit to smaller illustration sites or my own, so they don't get listed because they never get enough votes.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: JohnItalia on March 29, 2013, 13:12
GraphicLeftovers? I would hope they don't end up in the top 3!
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: lisafx on March 29, 2013, 15:51
GraphicLeftovers? I would hope they don't end up in the top 3!

What problem do you have with GL?  Fine if you don't like them, but a lot of us do.  If you know something we don't, you should share with the group...
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: leaf on March 29, 2013, 15:58
@Lisa - you can now remove your vote and cast a new vote (you had asked to do so earlier)
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: lisafx on March 29, 2013, 15:59
@Lisa - you can now remove your vote and cast a new vote (you had asked to do so earlier)

Thanks a lot Tyler :D
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: JohnItalia on March 29, 2013, 16:31
GraphicLeftovers? I would hope they don't end up in the top 3!

I actually liked doing business with GL for a time. But when you deal with top and middle tier companies who are very busy and they take the time to get back to you when you email them with a question and a low tier company like GL takes a month to get back to you with an email that makes no sense I feel their professionalism suffers.
I won't get into detail, however, the answer I got back was, "No, we at GL are too busy to answer all emails in detail" I would hate to see a company that treats its photographer like that get promoted. Just my opinion and my observation. Hope you are being treated better if you are promoting them.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 29, 2013, 16:33
It seems that we will have to promote SS as a first agency in our campaign...
That also could be good to show other "biggies" that we like someone who is good to us..

So, what you mean? How long period should be for the first campaign? Week, month or...?

After first campaign we can start the second! Second agency on poll list...
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: sharpshot on March 29, 2013, 17:03
We don't have to promote SS.  I think it was the wrong decision to have the top 4 sites in the poll.  They already take enough money from us to promote themselves and us doing their job would be madness.

So I'll stick with my referral links to GL and P5.  Might add one for YM, as they're doing a great job recently.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 29, 2013, 17:33
We don't have to promote SS.  I think it was the wrong decision to have the top 4 sites in the poll.  They already take enough money from us to promote themselves and us doing their job would be madness.

So I'll stick with my referral links to GL and P5.  Might add one for YM, as they're doing a great job recently.

Frankly, I completely agree with you Sharpshot!  Limit of the fair trade is 50:50 in all agency jobs...
But what others will tell if we change campaign to GL?
What I can do at this moment, maybe poll's question is partly wrong?
Or we can open a referendum question at the end of this poll...??


Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: lisafx on March 29, 2013, 22:35
GraphicLeftovers? I would hope they don't end up in the top 3!

I actually liked doing business with GL for a time. But when you deal with top and middle tier companies who are very busy and they take the time to get back to you when you email them with a question and a low tier company like GL takes a month to get back to you with an email that makes no sense I feel their professionalism suffers.
I won't get into detail, however, the answer I got back was, "No, we at GL are too busy to answer all emails in detail" I would hate to see a company that treats its photographer like that get promoted. Just my opinion and my observation. Hope you are being treated better if you are promoting them.

Thanks for the explanation, John.  I haven't had that experience with them, but I can understand why you would not be a fan if that's how you were treated. 
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: rene on March 29, 2013, 23:21
My vote goes to Pond5 - friendly and fair agency IMO.
BTW I don't understand how SS could be consider as "friendly" or fair, I cannot find one reason for... Probably I'm not enough smart.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: sharpshot on March 30, 2013, 03:59
We don't have to promote SS.  I think it was the wrong decision to have the top 4 sites in the poll.  They already take enough money from us to promote themselves and us doing their job would be madness.

So I'll stick with my referral links to GL and P5.  Might add one for YM, as they're doing a great job recently.

Frankly, I completely agree with you Sharpshot!  Limit of the fair trade is 50:50 in all agency jobs...
But what others will tell if we change campaign to GL?
What I can do at this moment, maybe poll's question is partly wrong?
Or we can open a referendum question at the end of this poll...??
You can either pick the highest genuine fair trade site from this poll or do another one that excludes sites that pay us a low percentage commission.  Having istock in the poll when some people only get 15% and they've virtually given away images to Google without our agreement makes it worthless to me.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on March 30, 2013, 04:34
It seems that we will have to promote SS as a first agency in our campaign...
That also could be good to show other "biggies" that we like someone who is good to us..

So, what you mean? How long period should be for the first campaign? Week, month or...?

After first campaign we can start the second! Second agency on poll list...
I think it would be an absolutely ridiculous move to promote SS.  What do we want? Our customers at sites with a decent RPD to go across to SS where the RPD is pathetic???  SS in my opinion has way too high a share of the customers, that is why we make so much money there, not because they pay us well per dl.  What we need is to lure SS customers away to sites that pay a decent rpd.  I have nothing against SS as a company and really appreciate the fact that they come in here and speak to  us but lets not kid ourselves that they pay us well per dl.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: EmberMike on March 30, 2013, 08:30

It is insanity that SS is in the lead. I really can't believe this.

Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on March 30, 2013, 09:06

It is insanity that SS is in the lead. I really can't believe this.
I'm glad that it isn't just me.  I'm stunned that SS is in the lead.  I'm wondering if people haven't bothered to read that the point of the poll is to choose an agency to promote.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 30, 2013, 09:07
Probably people vote rashly!
So what we can do?

Let everything be transparent!

We can make referendum question only for all those who wish to participate in campaign
So when campaign starts, everyone who will be in should put links as a proof of promotion....
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on March 30, 2013, 09:10
Let everything be transparent!
We can make referendum question only for all those who wish to participate in campaign
So when campaign starts, everyone who will be in should put links as a proof of promotion....
I like the idea of the campaign but just not for an agency with an rpd of less than a dollar.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 30, 2013, 09:14
Let everything be transparent!
We can make referendum question only for all those who wish to participate in campaign
So when campaign starts, everyone who will be in should put links as a proof of promotion....
I like the idea of the campaign but just not for an agency with an rpd of less than a dollar.

Can someone make easy understandable referendum question with explanation why (YES/NO) for last two days of this poll!?
My English is not so good (this pool is a proof  :-X)
It should be 50%+ agency, SS is OK but their percentage is unclear...

Just to explain to "rashly people" in this voting why we want to change the winning agency in case if SS holds 1st place...

Or poll for people who change their opinion and want to remove a vote for SS from this poll! Then SS can fall on second place!
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cathyslife on March 30, 2013, 09:25
I'm confused. The heading at the top of the poll says:

POLL: Please vote which "FAIR TRADE AGENCY" will be the first in our "Joint promotion and marketing campaign"!

istock is considered a fair trade agency?  :o
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 30, 2013, 09:30
I'm confused. The heading at the top of the poll says:

POLL: Please vote which "FAIR TRADE AGENCY" will be the first in our "Joint promotion and marketing campaign"!

istock is considered a fair trade agency?  :o

Maybe is not for you, but it can be for someone? Many contributors have private agreement with them!
As in politics, not all parties are equally evaluated for everybody...

Also it's not right that I as the creator of this poll, make decision which agency will be here and which not...
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: sharpshot on March 30, 2013, 16:20
Why not just disqualify any site that pays less than 50% commission?  It's obvious that GL is the winning site that pays at least 50% commission.  I don't see much point in doing another poll that will come up with the same result.

To be fair to SS, all they have to do is raise their commission percentage to 50% and they will be declared the winner.  I'm sure they'll be willing to do that :)
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Lizard on March 30, 2013, 19:38
Why not just disqualify any site that pays less than 50% commission?  It's obvious that GL is the winning site that pays at least 50% commission.  I don't see much point in doing another poll that will come up with the same result.

To be fair to SS, all they have to do is raise their commission percentage to 50% and they will be declared the winner.  I'm sure they'll be willing to do that :)


Because , u will have a winner on forum and nothing more than that , people will continue doing what they were doing by now, few will join and by trying to make a fire you'll end up with lighter flame to light a cigarette and wonder what next after another fail.

If anything is to be achived it has to be something with more choices and something minority of us needs to promote among other contributors first and if that can be achieved than u will have a ground to build something.


Im thinking that we need to write some kind of contributors codex which among other things can contain what SITES  we "unofficially" recommend buying from and contributing to.

We need to start impacting the market actively if we want changes , for example why not start codex with not recommending contributing to any new site that pays less than 50% and explain why.

Noone will be hurt loosing income when it still doesn't exist.  Lets help only few really fair sites , and start building them up to catch leaders and than later maybe it will  force leaders to lift bar.

So if new small site shows up on forum and ask to contribute , they will know from where they have to start planning business if they want contributors.

I believe writing an unofficial contributors  codex for starters and strongly promoting it to other contributors and buyers it a strong start.

Sure there will always be people not wanting to take advice but as more as we can promote codex more will start understand why...

U have a site thats strong but pay peanuts , people wont stop uploading but hey lets recomand to people not to give best shots from series there at least.

Its easier than delete portfolio , or stop contributing...

We are part of the market , huge part , so lets start to play a role in it



Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on March 30, 2013, 20:53
Its easier than delete portfolio , or stop contributing...

It is, but probably has less impact too.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Lizard on March 31, 2013, 01:32
Its easier than delete portfolio , or stop contributing...

It is, but probably has less impact too.

Exactly , but less impact on both ends , for contributors also u agree ?

People are not ready to make big moves that make  big impact on their side especially if its connected with  some immediate financial loss.

U cannot unite people in things they disagree on but in just the opposite.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Beppe Grillo on March 31, 2013, 02:33

It is insanity that SS is in the lead. I really can't believe this.
I'm glad that it isn't just me.  I'm stunned that SS is in the lead.  I'm wondering if people haven't bothered to read that the point of the poll is to choose an agency to promote.

But the title of the poll is:
POLL: Please vote which "FAIR TRADE AGENCY" will be the first in our "Joint promotion and marketing campaign"!

Some confusion… maybe
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 31, 2013, 05:43
I think that we get much clearer picture about contributors with this poll, than ever before!

I can open another poll "Do you want to remove your vote for Shutterstock?"
So if that number will exceed the difference between SS and GL we will have another winner...

Or  "Do you agree that promotional agency should be an agency with contributor's 50%+ royalty rate?"...
Shutterstock has unclear royalty rate and certanly less than 50%...

Etc.




Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: sc on March 31, 2013, 09:25
BORG:
March 27, 2013, 08:54
Please chose three of agencies!
After 7 days we should start to promote  "The winning agency" on every possible way!
Synergistic effect should be successful, if  thousands of contributors do the same thing in same time!

BORG:
March 28, 2013, 09:07
We shall promote them in France, we shall promote our friendly agency on the seas and oceans, we shall promote them with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our effort, whatever the cost may be. We shall promote that agency on the beaches, we shall advertise them on the landing grounds, we shall advertise in the fields and in the streets, we shall advertise in the hills; we shall never surrender!
.




I have been following this thread - even cast my vote - only 1 for GL.
And so far with only 169 out of some 32,000+ members casting votes, I don't see that you have clear or overwhelming support for your idea.
While it might be a worthwhile endeavor, it looks like the vast number of Microstock'ers aren't going to participate.

Your statements quoted above are ambiguous at best. My speculation (which, where would this board be without all the rampant speculation) is you will be promoting the 'Chosen Site' on all of the social media  outlets. Can't help you there, I'm not a big fan nor do I participate in any of them.
What other promotional avenues are you going to employ? I think for this idea to have any impact you need a well thought out and communicated plan.

I can only speak for myself but I don't know any buyers (OK maybe 1).
I have been around Photography for a long time at one point even owing my own study. The part I hated most about being a freelance photographer was being a salesman. That's why we have agencies to represent us and to do the marketing. Will 'Crowdsourcing' marketing change the buying habits of more than a couple small players? If GL or any other agency isn't getting a bigger share of the market it's their job to do better marketing. Isn't that what a percentage of their cut is to be used for?

This is going to be like all the calls for a Union. (another one in this thread) Good idea(?) but either poor or no execution.
Are you going to take out ads? 'Photographers for Better Royalties' banners?
What is going to fund this?

How are you going to measure the success or failure of the effort?

(to paraphrase Jerry Maguire)
SHOW ME THE PLAN

Just think you need something more than a call to arms.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on March 31, 2013, 10:16
"Marketing plan" is what I intend to talk about several days before poll's end!
My intention is also to ask the winning agency to prepare as much as they can, any kind of promotional materials...
I know that this can not be something big especially for the first time, but this can be  "a big message", that we are, in fact, partners who work together!
This is the least what we can do!
One month of our promotion, totally free, even 100 of contributors is not so small number if we start together in same time...

This is like "spring ecology cleaning action" in the nature of a small town ... You can not clean the world in 7 days of action, but you can send a message ...
Next time may be "eco cleaning action" in two cities!

 You can not change the world! But small virus can! Act as a virus!
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Beppe Grillo on March 31, 2013, 11:05
Why consider only %?
What is better a site that gives you 90% and sell 1 photo a year or a site that gives you 20% and sells 50 photos a day?
SS gives low % but it works a lot for the contributors (I think), or it is only casual if most of us sell more with SS than with others (if I have understood well)?

But, beside this, why to push a site where the sales are already good? Or why to abandon it?

I think that we need to push a site where the % is acceptable and where there is a real work done to promote contributors.

So this poll should indicate us what is that site. (But, personally, in no case I shall abandon a site where the sales are good, even if the % is low)
And this is the first past (pass)

Then, I think that once defined which one are the most interesting sites we should make a new poll (second round of vote) with the 3 winners of the round to decide the one to promote.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on March 31, 2013, 11:07
Its easier than delete portfolio , or stop contributing...

It is, but probably has less impact too.

Exactly , but less impact on both ends , for contributors also u agree ?

People are not ready to make big moves that make  big impact on their side especially if its connected with  some immediate financial loss.

U cannot unite people in things they disagree on but in just the opposite.

Definitely less impact on your wallet, but that may be the point. Can you get results without sacrifices? I'm not saying that to spur a revolution. I'm just posing the question. Will promotion alone have an impact or do you need more?
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Lizard on April 02, 2013, 00:36
Not sure why so many people have voted for SS...

Yeah, it's a mystery to me. I guess the istock folks were right, and it's really not money that will make us happy.

The fact is, if we were able to take all of the buyers at SS and move them over to a better paying site, we'd all be doing a heck of a lot better financially. I'm averaging just under $4 RPD at Stockfresh, while I average about $0.55 at SS.

Disagree...strongly....



First of all I haven't voted for SS but when i deeply rethink , I wouldn't feel bad about it too much even If i did...When your already that surprised why some voted SS...I try explain from my perspective, and I hope it makes sense.

From that April in 2006. when i pressed agree, things haven't change much there and they kept their fingers in their part of the jar. They even threw few raises that I actually felt in my wallet in good days.
And if other sites had their days , SS had its , i remember long beautiful scrolling on sales page...

Thay simply never let me down comparing to some.

Even more..... I don't remember situations i had to explain sales on forums, sales deductions, asking questions...and more or less  beating a dead horse against guy with a ban button and a paycheck. on 68. page of the topic.



Also personally I find their transparency among best in industry...and it means a lot to me...


Search engine yes changed few times but it never killed me.

They could also play some moves and "vast majority" would be still contributing , or u think  it wouldn't.


Yet maybe I'm stupid cause  there are sites with higher RPD
You would bet your money  that some would be paying that much if they get up there in big league.
Or that they wont be sold and youll need someone to promote from scratch....


I would sure not want them to go down for any site, known or unknown, but I would always like to see things spiced  with healthy competition in the game.




Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: RacePhoto on April 02, 2013, 03:12
Why consider only %?
What is better a site that gives you 90% and sell 1 photo a year or a site that gives you 20% and sells 50 photos a day?

Thank You for pointing out the obvious that has been ignored. One place pays 50% and people average $19 a month, the other pays 20% and people average $160 a month, but this thread, ignores bottom line, actual earnings and money in the bank, in favor of percentages.

The most recent site to drop from the Microstock business offered 80% didn't it?

And then some want to remove sites that they don't want, from the poll. Lets see? We don't like the response and people aren't answering the way we want, so we'll eliminate the choices until we get the answer we want to see? ???

Wag the dog folks, it's not going to make the buyers change to places that are "contributor friendly".

Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on April 02, 2013, 03:25
Not sure why so many people have voted for SS...

Yeah, it's a mystery to me. I guess the istock folks were right, and it's really not money that will make us happy.

The fact is, if we were able to take all of the buyers at SS and move them over to a better paying site, we'd all be doing a heck of a lot better financially. I'm averaging just under $4 RPD at Stockfresh, while I average about $0.55 at SS.

Disagree...strongly....



First of all I haven't voted for SS but when i deeply rethink , I wouldn't feel bad about it too much even If i did...When your already that surprised why some voted SS...I try explain from my perspective, and I hope it makes sense.

From that April in 2006. when i pressed agree, things haven't change much there and they kept their fingers in their part of the jar. They even threw few raises that I actually felt in my wallet in good days.
And if other sites had their days , SS had its , i remember long beautiful scrolling on sales page...

Thay simply never let me down comparing to some.

Even more..... I don't remember situations i had to explain sales on forums, sales deductions, asking questions...and more or less  beating a dead horse against guy with a ban button and a paycheck. on 68. page of the topic.



Also personally I find their transparency among best in industry...and it means a lot to me...


Search engine yes changed few times but it never killed me.

They could also play some moves and "vast majority" would be still contributing , or u think  it wouldn't.


Yet maybe I'm stupid cause  there are sites with higher RPD
You would bet your money  that some would be paying that much if they get up there in big league.
Or that they wont be sold and youll need someone to promote from scratch....


I would sure not want them to go down for any site, known or unknown, but I would always like to see things spiced  with healthy competition in the game.
None of that makes any difference to me when they are paying me between 70c and 90c per Download.  I don't want to send even more buyers there.  Quite the opposite I want to send buyers somewhere like DT where I get between 3$ and $4 per dl.   I pay my bills with my stock earnings so I want to sell my images at the place that will give me the best RPD. I've said before I have nothing against SS but I will support the sites that pay me well.  I couldn't be happier if the SS buyers defect to a place like GL or Pond 5.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on April 02, 2013, 03:32
Why consider only %?
What is better a site that gives you 90% and sell 1 photo a year or a site that gives you 20% and sells 50 photos a day?

No, what is better is a site that sells 50 photos a day and pays 90%.  This isn't about how much we earn at a site it is about who pays the most per download and therefore who we shoud be promoting and sending the buyers to.  If we are making the most money at a low paying site it means that a lot of the buyers are there instead of at a place that gives us better commission. We shouldn't promote sites just because they have a lot of buyers we should promote sites that pay us well per dl.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: sharpshot on April 02, 2013, 04:25
Why consider only %?
What is better a site that gives you 90% and sell 1 photo a year or a site that gives you 20% and sells 50 photos a day?

Thank You for pointing out the obvious that has been ignored. One place pays 50% and people average $19 a month, the other pays 20% and people average $160 a month, but this thread, ignores bottom line, actual earnings and money in the bank, in favor of percentages.

The most recent site to drop from the Microstock business offered 80% didn't it?

And then some want to remove sites that they don't want, from the poll. Lets see? We don't like the response and people aren't answering the way we want, so we'll eliminate the choices until we get the answer we want to see? ???

Wag the dog folks, it's not going to make the buyers change to places that are "contributor friendly".
Did people read the poll question?
Quote
POLL: Please vote which "FAIR TRADE AGENCY" will be the first in our "Joint promotion and marketing campaign"!
I put the "FAIR TRADE AGENCY" in bold.  To me, an agency can't be considered as "fair trade" if they pay under 30% commission to their contributors while other sites have had no problem paying 50%.  Then we have istock giving Google images and paying their contributors $6 or $12.  How can they possibly be considered as a fair trade agency?  But people have still voted for them.  So this poll to me is a joke.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Beppe Grillo on April 02, 2013, 04:26
Why consider only %?
What is better a site that gives you 90% and sell 1 photo a year or a site that gives you 20% and sells 50 photos a day?

No, what is better is a site that sells 50 photos a day and pays 90%.  This isn't about how much we earn at a site it is about who pays the most per download and therefore who we shoud be promoting and sending the buyers to.  If we are making the most money at a low paying site it means that a lot of the buyers are there instead of at a place that gives us better commission. We shouldn't promote sites just because they have a lot of buyers we should promote sites that pay us well per dl.

Yes, I understand. But you are just dreaming/joking (50 photos 90% ;) ).

Do you really think that 10 of us will change things "promoting" some sites?
(I don't see a lot of people really interested here, just the same few users, the few ones that generally participate to interesting subjects like)
Or you are all at the level of Yuri or Africa Studio, except me?  :P

It will be good to understand how to promote some site *concretely*

Have you (or better the creator of this thread) some concrete plan/action that you can expose here to do this?

Before to promote some site I think that there is a really big work to do on contributors (not the 10 here) to change their mind. And as I think that for 99% of the contributors the actual situation it is enough good, so I bet it will be really hard.

For the moment I can only say that I like the idea, but it looks a little like a nice fairy tale, or like believing in Santa Klaus.

I really hope that this dream could become a reality.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Beppe Grillo on April 02, 2013, 04:35
while other sites have had no problem paying 50%. 
How do you know that the sites that pay 50% have no problem to do it?
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on April 02, 2013, 08:13
Why consider only %?
What is better a site that gives you 90% and sell 1 photo a year or a site that gives you 20% and sells 50 photos a day?

No, what is better is a site that sells 50 photos a day and pays 90%.  This isn't about how much we earn at a site it is about who pays the most per download and therefore who we shoud be promoting and sending the buyers to.  If we are making the most money at a low paying site it means that a lot of the buyers are there instead of at a place that gives us better commission. We shouldn't promote sites just because they have a lot of buyers we should promote sites that pay us well per dl.

Totally agree!

Imagine what would be if for example Istock has 99% of whole image market...

Then IS can pay only 5% (even less) to their contributors and still be the most paying stock agency... Other 1% of market and all other agencies can not make enough big amount every month, even with 90% royalty rate for their contributors...

This poll clearly shows lack of knowledge of contributors,if anything else... They can feed the beast whole the time and think "we are not guilty for low commision rate"...
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on April 02, 2013, 08:18
  So this poll to me is a joke.

It is not a joke, is a tragedy! Contributors are mainly guilty for their destiny!
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on April 02, 2013, 09:10
Do you really think that 10 of us will change things "promoting" some sites?
(I don't see a lot of people really interested here, just the same few users, the few ones that generally participate to interesting subjects like)
Or you are all at the level of Yuri or Africa Studio, except me?  :P

It depends on who you are trying to get change for. Most things aren't likely to change the industry, but you can make a difference in your own wallet. It just takes some work and a plan. Unfortunately though, most people aren't going to put in that work. I think the fact that the self-hosted option never gets the 50 votes needed to make the earnings poll tells you that. So do the results of this poll. But, that doesn't mean some people still won't make changes for themselves  and have success.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: sharpshot on April 02, 2013, 10:47
while other sites have had no problem paying 50%. 
How do you know that the sites that pay 50% have no problem to do it?
Many sites paying 50% commission have been around almost since microstock started.  DT paid 50% for years and I don't believe their excuses for cutting commissions.  Stockxpert were earning me more than all sites except SS while paying 50% commission.  It's a shame they were sold and then closed but I'm sure they were making a nice profit.  So I don't think its a problem for sites to pay 50% commission.

Its not all about the percentage commission sites pay us but if we're going to spend time and money promoting a site, I don't see the logic in choosing one that already spends lots of the money they make from us promoting themselves?  If they're already taking 70 to 85% of the money they make from selling a license for our images, they shouldn't need us helping them.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Beppe Grillo on April 02, 2013, 10:51
So do the results of this poll. But, that doesn't mean some people still won't make changes for themselves  and have success.

I agree.
And I can say more. I am new on stocks and I did not even heard about GL stock before (I have only considered only the top and middle tier till now - and I understand that it was a wrong idea).
So, in front of the result of the poll (I don't think it will change a lot now) I have understood that GL could be an interesting site where to upload my images, and I will do it (I am waiting the acceptation now). And for this reason I want to thank you all, and specially the "father" of this thread.
So maybe in this way, for the little part that I can do, I will contribute to the promotion of this site.
Cheers!


Many sites paying 50% commission have been around almost since microstock started.  DT paid 50% for years and I don't believe their excuses for cutting commissions.  Stockxpert were earning me more than all sites except SS while paying 50% commission.  It's a shame they were sold and then closed but I'm sure they were making a nice profit.  So I don't think its a problem for sites to pay 50% commission.

Its not all about the percentage commission sites pay us but if we're going to spend time and money promoting a site, I don't see the logic in choosing one that already spends lots of the money they make from us promoting themselves?  If they're already taking 70 to 85% of the money they make from selling a license for our images, they shouldn't need us helping them.

For what I have understood (but I am too much new in stocks to have a precise idea) the sites that was paying 50% and then cut the commissions are still alive.
The sites that still pay 50% or they have not a lot of sales (why? because not a lot of contributors or not a lot of customers?) or they close fast.
So, if the general trend is to reduce the commissions to live (survive?) there are some (good/bad) reasons for this or not? Maybe a simple law of market offer/demand?
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: RacePhoto on April 02, 2013, 11:43
I think the wording of the poll was confusing. I don't even know what a fair trade agency is, until someone defined it? Never heard of that term before. And using friendly could mean anything. Nice emails, easy uploads, sales dollars, pretty forum hosts?  :D

So people read the poll and answered based on the question. Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!

I answered the two that I find the most friendly and make me the most money. I didn't even pick three. Now I'm told I'm stupid for liking SS and how they should be in the poll? OK how about only put places that pay 50% in the poll, that would solve the confusion and limit to the ones that are intended to be the beneficiaries of the support?

That's my answer to making it better.




  So this poll to me is a joke.

It is not a joke, is a tragedy! Contributors are mainly guilty for their destiny!

Also:

Symbiostock and Stocksy are missing  :(

And Alamy only pays 40%
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: tickstock on April 02, 2013, 11:49
.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: tickstock on April 02, 2013, 11:52
.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: RacePhoto on April 02, 2013, 13:22
And Alamy only pays 40%
They pay 50%.

Not always on everything, but fine, add them to the next poll and only include sites that pay 50% or more (most of the time?). That would solve the questions of who we should or shouldn't vote for. If it was only for places that are 50% and up (most of the time?), why are all the Microstock sites that don't pay that, included as an option.

See where it's confusing? And it said "The best contributor friendly agency"

I like Alamy even at 40% Distributor makes 40% I make 40%

40% Distributor Commission    30.90    
40% Distributor Commission    27.80    
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on April 02, 2013, 13:40
Not always on everything, but fine, add them to the next poll and only include sites that pay 50% or more (most of the time?). That would solve the questions of who we should or shouldn't vote for. If it was only for places that are 50% and up (most of the time?), why are all the Microstock sites that don't pay that, included as an option.

See where it's confusing? And it said "The best contributor friendly agency"

I like Alamy even at 40% Distributor makes 40% I make 40%

40% Distributor Commission    30.90    
40% Distributor Commission    27.80

It's not necessarily all about %. It's about what you get paid per sale. I think many of us were surprised (as was I) at the number of votes SS got because it is pretty much known as the lowest per sale agency out there.

I actually think this poll was pretty interesting because it shows most contributors don't really care about RPD at all. They'd rather promote SS because... Actually, I'm not really sure why. I guess that would be a good follow up question.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Lizard on April 02, 2013, 13:54
Not always on everything, but fine, add them to the next poll and only include sites that pay 50% or more (most of the time?). That would solve the questions of who we should or shouldn't vote for. If it was only for places that are 50% and up (most of the time?), why are all the Microstock sites that don't pay that, included as an option.

See where it's confusing? And it said "The best contributor friendly agency"

I like Alamy even at 40% Distributor makes 40% I make 40%

40% Distributor Commission    30.90    
40% Distributor Commission    27.80

It's not necessarily all about %. It's about what you get paid per sale. I think many of us were surprised (as was I) at the number of votes SS got because it is pretty much known as the lowest per sale agency out there.

I actually think this poll was pretty interesting because it shows most contributors don't really care about RPD at all. They'd rather promote SS because... Actually, I'm not really sure why. I guess that would be a good follow up question.


Shortly

-most people joined there in same  model as they have now

-they never played tricky moves trying to grab in the part they promised to contributors

-when they were dominant in their part of market they showed intention to push prices up...and
share that with us

- their forum is most democratic and never banned people for nothing , at least I feel that way

-never throw limits

- never rejected for we have enough of those

-never set upload limits

- i like their transparency

- never experienced sale returns there

I can put more reasons if u want




Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on April 02, 2013, 14:01
Not always on everything, but fine, add them to the next poll and only include sites that pay 50% or more (most of the time?). That would solve the questions of who we should or shouldn't vote for. If it was only for places that are 50% and up (most of the time?), why are all the Microstock sites that don't pay that, included as an option.

See where it's confusing? And it said "The best contributor friendly agency"

I like Alamy even at 40% Distributor makes 40% I make 40%

40% Distributor Commission    30.90    
40% Distributor Commission    27.80

It's not necessarily all about %. It's about what you get paid per sale. I think many of us were surprised (as was I) at the number of votes SS got because it is pretty much known as the lowest per sale agency out there.

I actually think this poll was pretty interesting because it shows most contributors don't really care about RPD at all. They'd rather promote SS because... Actually, I'm not really sure why. I guess that would be a good follow up question.


Shortly

-most people joined there in same  model as they have now

-they never played tricky moves trying to grab in the part they promised to contributors

-when they were dominant in their part of market they showed intention to push prices up...and
share that with us

- their forum is most democratic and never banned people for nothing , at least I feel that way

-never throw limits

- never rejected for we have enough of those

-never set upload limits

- i like their transparency

- never experienced sale returns there

I can put more reasons if u want
That's fine if you are a hobbyist but not if you are in this to make  a living.  I'll take 4$ or more a dl over less than a dollar any day.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: tickstock on April 02, 2013, 14:04
.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Lizard on April 02, 2013, 14:05
Sorry but I don't agree , i make a living from this and SS is holding the roof of the house from the day one with same portfolio on other sites.

What makes u sure if a site  gets big as ss it wont play u with a move , ok maybe it want..

But the fact is that I really trust SS more than i trust some others because they earned that trust
durin all this YEARS.

Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Lizard on April 02, 2013, 14:08

Shortly

-most people joined there in same  model as they have now

-they never played tricky moves trying to grab in the part they promised to contributors

-when they were dominant in their part of market they showed intention to push prices up...and
share that with us

- their forum is most democratic and never banned people for nothing , at least I feel that way

-never throw limits

- never rejected for we have enough of those

-never set upload limits

- i like their transparency

- never experienced sale returns there

I can put more reasons if u want
A few things about that.  They did go back on referral earnings which were supposed to be forever.  They have not raised prices at all (nothing meaningful) and still sell average photos, video, and vectors for less than $2.50.  They do have returns just not for subs, yet.  About transparency has anyone seen the sensitive use license?  The prices for that are not public, ie not transparent.

Stands but...

name a long lasting strong site that treat us more fair in the past , in your opinion if u wish ?
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on April 02, 2013, 14:34

name a long lasting strong site that treat us more fair in the past , in your opinion if u wish ?

I guess it depends on what you mean by fair. I don't think it's particularly fair to get paid on average under a buck. I also don't give extra credit to SS because they never reduced commissions (because they were already the lowest). I have nothing against SS. I like them. It just comes down to math for me in most of these decisions.

I guess you can buy my loyalty.  ;D
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Lizard on April 02, 2013, 14:45

name a long lasting strong site that treat us more fair in the past , in your opinion if u wish ?

I guess it depends on what you mean by fair. I don't think it's particularly fair to get paid on average under a buck. I also don't give extra credit to SS because they never reduced commissions (because they were already the lowest). I have nothing against SS. I like them. It just comes down to math for me in most of these decisions.

I guess you can buy my loyalty.  ;D

So u can mine , but I would not wish them to go down and when earnings are concerned in long term for me nobody came close to them.

 
Forget to say personally I don't like BS move,  but i can understand its probably answer to TS only with option not to accept the deal for us but i still don't like it.


To be clear , Im not for promoting them , but do understand why some voted for them and I sure not wish them to tank in favor of some site that is enigma for the future from my perspective , thats all I wanted to say






Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on April 02, 2013, 14:50


What makes u sure if a site  gets big as ss it wont play u with a move , ok maybe it want..


I don't but it would have to go down an awful lot to get nearly as low as the RPD at SS.   What makes you think that SS aren't going to pull the same at SS as they have at BS?
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Lizard on April 02, 2013, 15:10


What makes u sure if a site  gets big as ss it wont play u with a move , ok maybe it want..


I don't but it would have to go down an awful lot to get nearly as low as the RPD at SS.   What makes you think that SS aren't going to pull the same at SS as they have at BS?

Because they had 8 yeas to do it , it would have pass ( or u think it wouldn't) and yet they didn't do it. 

I cannot know but if I would bet on someone not to trick me ...I would just have to bet on them...based on my experience. And I mean long term.

Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Lizard on April 02, 2013, 15:27

One more thing , If I just needed to pick a site and bet getty wont get it , i would pick SS...and if Im wrong then there is strong chance Im stupid.

And the history showed that they only need to move a finger to get those in level with ones some vote we promote. Some even claimed they are starting with goal to sell the site.  Hey ? 


So, I should look only numbers,  and neglect the facts that things not only have strong chance for happening but yet they already happened  in this  industry.

And even if u want compare business models , Im sure many would bet SS would be lower by now and loosing some battles yet again have a look at the list on the right.

Without cutting our share...ever.  For that they have my hat down , because some of their rivals were financing that and partly from part that was once considered ours. SS didnt respond with same move.

Low or not i see them as positive guys in the industry

Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: sharpshot on April 02, 2013, 16:14
Not always on everything, but fine, add them to the next poll and only include sites that pay 50% or more (most of the time?). That would solve the questions of who we should or shouldn't vote for. If it was only for places that are 50% and up (most of the time?), why are all the Microstock sites that don't pay that, included as an option.

See where it's confusing? And it said "The best contributor friendly agency"

I like Alamy even at 40% Distributor makes 40% I make 40%

40% Distributor Commission    30.90    
40% Distributor Commission    27.80

It's not necessarily all about %. It's about what you get paid per sale. I think many of us were surprised (as was I) at the number of votes SS got because it is pretty much known as the lowest per sale agency out there.

I actually think this poll was pretty interesting because it shows most contributors don't really care about RPD at all. They'd rather promote SS because... Actually, I'm not really sure why. I guess that would be a good follow up question.


Shortly

-most people joined there in same  model as they have now

-they never played tricky moves trying to grab in the part they promised to contributors

-when they were dominant in their part of market they showed intention to push prices up...and
share that with us

- their forum is most democratic and never banned people for nothing , at least I feel that way

-never throw limits

- never rejected for we have enough of those

-never set upload limits

- i like their transparency

- never experienced sale returns there

I can put more reasons if u want
That's fine if you are a hobbyist but not if you are in this to make  a living.  I'll take 4$ or more a dl over less than a dollar any day.
I made over $800 with SS last month and $60 with DT, so the higher RPD with DT is meaningless to me.  My highest RPD site is alamy but I average less monthly earnings with them than with DT lately.  So I'm not that concerned about RPD.  It would be nice if it was higher with SS but I'm much more interested in how much each site makes each month.

It would be nice if buyers went to higher RPD sites and downloaded the same amount of images but that doesn't happen.  I think they buy more than they need with SS but with the higher priced sites, they download less.  So RPD isn't as important as some people think it is.  For the best RPD, why bother with microstock at all?
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on April 02, 2013, 17:02
I made over $800 with SS last month and $60 with DT, so the higher RPD with DT is meaningless to me.  My highest RPD site is alamy but I average less monthly earnings with them than with DT lately.  So I'm not that concerned about RPD.  It would be nice if it was higher with SS but I'm much more interested in how much each site makes each month.

It would be nice if buyers went to higher RPD sites and downloaded the same amount of images but that doesn't happen.  I think they buy more than they need with SS but with the higher priced sites, they download less.  So RPD isn't as important as some people think it is.  For the best RPD, why bother with microstock at all?

I understand. It is totally meaningless until it means something.  ;D

Seriously though, it's hard to find sites that both pay well and have enough volume to be profitable or have potential (I had to build one of them). That doesn't mean the two are mutually exclusive. 60% of my earnings last month came from 12% of my sales. Like you, my top site earned me over $800 (if SS was your top site), but the RPD was around $7.

None of that happened overnight though. I'd like to think that I had something to do with it by choosing to go "all in" on my high RPD sites and let the other ones just coast. But, those sites had to show some signs of life. For example, I like Cutcaster, but I don't think it would matter how many files I upload there.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on April 03, 2013, 03:59
Royalty per download (RPD) is not quite good measure! For more money on SS the reason could be that they have excellent selling-price management which attract customers more than others agencies, where customers will spend more than usual! That is certainly the truth in case of Shutterstock!
So crucial thing have to be how much from that they are ready to give to their contributors and nothing else, no RPD or RPI etc.
Just royalty rate!

Everyone who want to change the opinion in this poll, can remove his voting with click on "REMOVE VOTE" button under the poll, and can do it again!
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on April 03, 2013, 11:06
We have the winner! Shutterstock!
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Beppe Grillo on April 03, 2013, 11:15
We have the winner! Shutterstock!

I don't think.

As SS has not obtained the absolute majority (50% +1) what do you think about to do a second round with the first 2 (or 3)?
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: tickstock on April 03, 2013, 11:23
.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Poncke on April 03, 2013, 11:25
Haha, this is exactly what was predicted to happen.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: sharpshot on April 03, 2013, 12:40
I think I'll promote Shutterstock by drinking a cold beer.  Now that's sorted, I'm ready to get to work promoting the second place site :)
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: EmberMike on April 03, 2013, 13:27

I wouldn't even back the 2nd place company, GL, honestly. I just don't see them being able to grow in any significant way. My earnings there have been steadily slipping for over a year now. I still think Stockfresh is the real up-and-comer. I'm seeing $120-180 a month at SF, and $30-40 and GL. There's just no comparing them.

I know it defeats the purpose of this if we don't back the winning company, but I just can't see any value in backing SS and I'm not convinced that GL has the ability to do much more than what they are currently doing. 
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on April 03, 2013, 13:46
Maybe you think that we haven't any result with this poll! We have!
Now we know better who we are...
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Poncke on April 03, 2013, 13:52

.... I still think Stockfresh is the real up-and-comer....

I am waiting for the poll on the right to settle down and then I think I am going to submit to them as I see more and more people report good sales. They are between CanStockPhoto and 123
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Mantis on April 03, 2013, 19:52

I wouldn't even back the 2nd place company, GL, honestly. I just don't see them being able to grow in any significant way. My earnings there have been steadily slipping for over a year now. I still think Stockfresh is the real up-and-comer. I'm seeing $120-180 a month at SF, and $30-40 and GL. There's just no comparing them.

I know it defeats the purpose of this if we don't back the winning company, but I just can't see any value in backing SS and I'm not convinced that GL has the ability to do much more than what they are currently doing.

At least someone is making money there.  However, I think the real up and comer is still up for grabs and I would not vote for SF over P5 or GL simply due to the pricing of images.  If any of those three were to take off, I'd vote P5.  We would make a lot more money there....assuming all things equal in terms of number of buyers.  Our goal should be to begin taking steps to reverse the poor commission trends that result from skeleton pricing.  As I've stated before, 50% of a tiny sale (.38 x .5 = .19 cents) amount doesn't make a site stand out.  50% of a $10 sale is a lot juicier, so I recommend we push buyers to these sites....which I am doing at work and with some of my designer friends.

Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Poncke on April 03, 2013, 20:38
38 cent is the full cut not 19 cent
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: EmberMike on April 03, 2013, 21:07
...I think the real up and comer is still up for grabs and I would not vote for SF over P5...

I'm probably just out of the loop on this one, but what's the deal with Pond5? I thought they were a partner with 123RF and our work went to them via 123?

Are you uploading direct to P5?
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on April 04, 2013, 03:14
...I think the real up and comer is still up for grabs and I would not vote for SF over P5...

I'm probably just out of the loop on this one, but what's the deal with Pond5? I thought they were a partner with 123RF and our work went to them via 123?

Are you uploading direct to P5?
I upload to 123rf and my images aren't at pond5 so I am uploading directly there.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: sharpshot on April 04, 2013, 04:14
...I think the real up and comer is still up for grabs and I would not vote for SF over P5...

I'm probably just out of the loop on this one, but what's the deal with Pond5? I thought they were a partner with 123RF and our work went to them via 123?

Are you uploading direct to P5?
You can ask P5 to remove your images from 123 and upload your portfolio direct.  But I'm not sure what's best with vectors.  As they've merged with Pixmac, you might be best off uploading via Pixmac.  The queue is slow with Pond5 but it's worth it for 50% commission and being able to set your own prices.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: sharpshot on April 04, 2013, 04:28
Why not make this promotion for all the sites that have been around for a few years and pay 50% commission or more?  I think we should give them a contributors fair trade award and inform buyers that they pay a commission that makes this sustainable for us.  If we end up getting 15% commission or virtually giving away our images for $12, this is going to turn in to a hobby.  The only way I can stay motivated to produce new microstock images is if buyers move to sites that pay us a fair share.

It's not just about the commission percentage, if sites guaranteed that we weren't going to have any more commission cuts, I'd be able to see a future in microstock.  Until they do that, there's little point in working harder for less money each year until it becomes completely unsustainable.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: EmberMike on April 04, 2013, 14:20
I upload to 123rf and my images aren't at pond5 so I am uploading directly there.

You can ask P5 to remove your images from 123 and upload your portfolio direct...

Thanks, guys. I haven't been able to find any of my images at Pond5, so I'm assuming they aren't being sent over from 123RF. Looks like I'm missing out by not having my stuff there. Guess I'll start uploading direct.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on April 04, 2013, 14:38
I upload to 123rf and my images aren't at pond5 so I am uploading directly there.

You can ask P5 to remove your images from 123 and upload your portfolio direct...

Thanks, guys. I haven't been able to find any of my images at Pond5, so I'm assuming they aren't being sent over from 123RF. Looks like I'm missing out by not having my stuff there. Guess I'll start uploading direct.

They don't have their vector uploads set up yet, so you may have to wait a month or 2. Unless you go through Pixmac, but they don't have the price setting features set up there. So, I'm waiting until it all gets settled.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: EmberMike on April 04, 2013, 14:53
They don't have their vector uploads set up yet, so you may have to wait a month or 2. Unless you go through Pixmac, but they don't have the price setting features set up there. So, I'm waiting until it all gets settled.

Thanks, Cory. Guess I'll be waiting also, then.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: fotografer on April 04, 2013, 15:46
I'm interested to know why somebody has given minuses to the last 4 or 5 posts.  Not complaining that I got one but just genuinely interested.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on April 04, 2013, 16:17
I'm interested to know why somebody has given minuses to the last 4 or 5 posts.  Not complaining that I got one but just genuinely interested.

LOL. I was wondering that too. I thought my post was helpful. As opposed to the usual useless garbage that comes out of my mouth.  ;D

Maybe, it was sort of off topic? I don't know.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: EmberMike on April 04, 2013, 19:40

Haters gonna hate.

;)

Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on April 06, 2013, 03:47
What we should do now!?
Suggestions please!
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Poncke on April 06, 2013, 04:03
What we should do now!?
Suggestions please!
Let it go, you'll never get an agreement. Its not going to work like a democracy where the most votes is the winner. Its all individuals with their own agenda. Nothing wrong with that. It was a good attempt, and now everybody moves on, just as always.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: ShadySue on April 06, 2013, 06:42
I know I'm going to get jumped on from a high height, but I can't see under which criteria SS would qualify as a 'fair trade' site for contributors, even though I realise that many here seem to earn well there.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Mantis on April 06, 2013, 07:57
38 cent is the full cut not 19 cent

Not talking SS. There was a discussion recently (I think it was Veer) where they sold images for 38 cents and the contributor got 50% (.19 cents).
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: sc on April 06, 2013, 08:36
What we should do now!?
Suggestions please!

So this is the Big Plan?
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: palagarde on April 07, 2013, 00:17
I wasn't thinking that the poll results would also pathetic.
I naively hoped that if we were a few thousand of the same opinion we could make an offer to 2/3 of the best survey. I wasn't thinking that could Shutterstock win. It's a non sense.

I have no idea of the amount needed to effectively promote a website. Here are some ideas:

- In the first example pay for the elected $ 20 each / every month for 1 year to make his promotion and magnification, magnification ... If 5000 (I know I'm dreaming) of us do it = $ 100,000 / month, it may not be negligible.
- In 2 nd each of us could put link and articles to promote elected in his blog or other website.

It would of course to conclude a contract with the elected, one year payement, renewable, no drop %, no subscription too cheap, no partnership without our agreement, report every month on what is being done with our money ... etc.
 
It would not matter to leave the other microstocks for now, just put its portfolio on the elect and perhaps a minimum of 10% of exclusivity for new photos.
I do not know about you, but I'd be willing to give $ 100 every month if it would work. It might not be needed by 5000 to be like that.
Thank you to those who have other ideas to share, after we should maybe start a new post / survey with the best ideas to know how many people would be on, to define what we want from the elected, prices, conditions. ..

For now it is very messy ideas but more we share more it will become clear, do not drop for the moment, and even if it goes no further, from time to time it's good to dream a little.

My English is awful, I hope that what I write is understandable.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on April 07, 2013, 03:52
What we should do now!?
Suggestions please!

So this is the Big Plan?

With who?

My conclusion is that there is no "moving force" among contributor population,many of us think completely different...
This clearly shows that all agencies have "clean hands" to do everything what they want!

"Agencies are everything, contributor is nothing!"
 Funny is that contributor confirms this conclusion every day!

I can open another poll to just separate all contributors who think similar, so they start promote true "fair trade"...
But how many of contributors will participate in action, 50 or 80?
Maybe I will these days..

Also, old thought is coming on my mind! New Agency, but contributors are owners!
We should start to collect money!  :D :D ;)
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Poncke on April 07, 2013, 04:00
Paying money to promote an agency? They take 50 procent from you and you want to pay money to fund marketing for them. That is nuts. Sorry.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: borg on April 07, 2013, 14:02
I am talking about collecting money for a new agency not for promoting an old one... ;)
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Poncke on April 07, 2013, 14:48
Its nuts regardless of the agency. You already pay them through royalties. They need to get their act together and market themselves. Its not your job to do that. Its so ridiculous I cant even take it serious, I wont even consider it for a second. Sorry.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: palagarde on April 07, 2013, 15:30
Considering how things begin, I think it is even more complicated to start from 0 wanting to create another microstock. It would be easier with an existing one that has seemed to know what he does but maybe did not have the money to do a lot of advertising. Hence my idea of ​​promoting with our money. If the agency has no money because it does not sell a lot of pictures because is unknown, it can not invest in advertising. the cat chases his tail. There would probably have a way to get more than 50% at the beginning and once the machine is running well get back to 50% because they too must eat well.
Or what? We'll end up having only 15% of the royalty in each big agencies.
So is it better to put a little of his pocket now or do like everyone bitching, especially not to think, enjoy the moment and let the world go to ruin?
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Poncke on April 07, 2013, 16:10
Its ridiculous, if they struggle with their start up, and dont have the money for marketing they shouldnt be starting up an agency in the first place. And if they are struggling from the start, you can just as well set your money on fire and take a few good stock shots. You will probably get more ROI that way.

Even considering dumping 1000 dollar or 10k on an agency for marketing is stupid, that little money is getting you no where.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: grsphoto on April 08, 2013, 10:49
If I am going to invest time, effort and money into marketing micro-stock I want to be able to get a return on my investment.

Right now, the only site I see as being worth this effort is my own Symbiostock network site.

I am still not sure about the way it is being implemented, and it is months away from being really useful, but the idea and thoughts behind it could be the freedom we are all looking for....
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: cthoman on April 08, 2013, 11:07
Its nuts regardless of the agency. You already pay them through royalties. They need to get their act together and market themselves. Its not your job to do that. Its so ridiculous I cant even take it serious, I wont even consider it for a second. Sorry.

In theory, I don't see anything wrong with it. If I was guaranteed my sales would go up a significant amount by investing x amount of dollars in certain agencies, I'd definitely do it. You could never get that guarantee though, so I don't see much point at throwing money at it.

That said, there are many other ways to promote agencies that don't cost anything.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: Poncke on April 08, 2013, 11:14
Its nuts regardless of the agency. You already pay them through royalties. They need to get their act together and market themselves. Its not your job to do that. Its so ridiculous I cant even take it serious, I wont even consider it for a second. Sorry.

In theory, I don't see anything wrong with it. If I was guaranteed my sales would go up a significant amount by investing x amount of dollars in certain agencies, I'd definitely do it. You could never get that guarantee though, so I don't see much point at throwing money at it.

That said, there are many other ways to promote agencies that don't cost anything.
Thats it, if it was a guaranteed ROI I wouldnt mind either, but there isnt. And I also agree the marketing can be done free of cost. Look at the Google Drive issue, I think hundreds of blogs and articles were written. How about doing the same but then focus on these agencies. Use our blogs, twitter and FB accounts. Spread the word about the same agency. But I am not throwing money at an agency that cant sustain itself.
Title: Re: POLL: Let's promote together "The best contributor friendly agency"! First time!
Post by: alberto on April 08, 2013, 13:13
Poncke has reason. Blogs and social can be a way to promote, but I never will spend to promote one agency. An agency start with a business plan and know that they must promoting the new startup and that need money. If they can't promote themselves they are dead.