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Poll

What's your Photo Return Per Image Per Month? (RPIPM)

0-.09 Cents $USD
17 (18.3%)
.10-.24 Cents $USD
24 (25.8%)
.25-.49 Cents $USD
22 (23.7%)
.50-.99 Cents $USD
15 (16.1%)
$1.00-$2.49 $USD
9 (9.7%)
$2.50-$4.99 $USD
5 (5.4%)
$5.00 or More $USD
1 (1.1%)

Total Members Voted: 86

Author Topic: POLL: Micro Photo Return Per Image Per Month  (Read 10159 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

PaulieWalnuts

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« on: October 18, 2017, 08:40 »
0
This is for micro photos only. Don't include macro, POD/print, video, illustration or non-photo stats.

What is Return Per Image Per Month? It's the calculation of how much you earn for each image you have per month. This can be measured for each micro site or all sites combined. For this poll use all sites combined. This ins't scientific but just a loose figure of where you're at. I realize you may have 1,000 images at SS and 500 at IS and your income may vary from $100 to $500 each month. Loose average of the two combined is fine and using the past year stats should be fine. 

Why is RPIPM helpful? Because if you keep track of it month-to-month or year-over-year it can give you trending of how each site is performing or how you're performing overall. So if in 2015 your RPIPM was .10 cents, 2016 was .15 cents, 2017 is 20 cents, it's likely 2018 will be 25 cents if your efforts have been consistent. If it was instead .15, .10, .05 good chances are it will be around .02/.03 for 2018. So in other words, is the trending showing you growth or that you're wasting your time? To some of you who have been here a while I know RPIPM doesn't matter. For me it has been really helpful it knowing where to focus my time. It can also help newer people answer questions like "is this worth my time" or "can I make a living at this?".

Calculation examples

You earn $1,000 USD on average per month across all micro sites and have an average of 1,000 images with all of them.
$1,000 divided by 1,000 images = $1 RPIPM

You earn $100 USD on average per month across all micro sites and have an average of 1,000 images with all of them.
$100 divided by 1,000 images = $.10 RPIPM

So let's say the poll shows that most people earn $.25 cents RPIPM. If you need to earn $60,000 to quit your day job you could use the $.25 cents RPIPM to calculate that you'd probably need around 20,000 images. 20,000 images x .25 RPIPM = $5,000 Per Month x 12 = $60,000 Per Year. You can then use that to calculate how long it would take you to get there. If you can get 10,000 images accepted per year it would take two years. If you can 1,000 images accepted per year it would take 20 years.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 08:44 by PaulieWalnuts »


Justanotherphotographer

« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2017, 08:48 »
+1
RPI has been steadily going down since 2007, now hovering just above $1.

As a warning to anyone new, by the time you get up to a large portfolio it would have dropped again, so bear that in mind in your calculations. For me it has pretty much halved every 2 years in recent times.

I think that depreciation is pretty much in line with what SS accidentally gave away with some of their figures a while back. It turned out collection growth has been far outstripping payment/ market growth the last several years.

« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2017, 08:50 »
+1
Nice poll!

But it would also be useful to see TOTAL photo average (micro, macro, print, what have you). That might be more useful for making life decisions. I don't look at "microstock" as being the business - I look at the business more as "selling photos online independently, in whatever way possible".

PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 08:51 »
0
I found the same poll I did back in 2012. .50-.75 had the most responses.

http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/poll-rpi/msg245190/#msg245190

« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 08:51 »
0
RPI has been steadily going down since 2007, now hovering just above $1.

Per month? If so, that's really good, especially if it has gone down. The poll is for monthly figures.

« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 08:54 »
0
RPI has been steadily going down since 2007, now hovering just above $1.

.
Is that $1 per image per month? That's an outstanding return if it is.  That's what I was looking at back at the peak, a long, long time ago.

« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 08:56 »
0
RPI has been steadily going down since 2007, now hovering just above $1.

As a warning to anyone new, by the time you get up to a large portfolio it would have dropped again, so bear that in mind in your calculations. For me it has pretty much halved every 2 years in recent times.

I think that depreciation is pretty much in line with what SS accidentally gave away with some of their figures a while back. It turned out collection growth has been far outstripping payment/ market growth the last several years.

$1 per month? Wow, that's extremely high. People with really commercial portfolios used to report that kind of value around 2007. Nowadays $1 / year seems to be the more average norm

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 09:01 »
0
RPI has been steadily going down since 2007, now hovering just above $1.

As a warning to anyone new, by the time you get up to a large portfolio it would have dropped again, so bear that in mind in your calculations. For me it has pretty much halved every 2 years in recent times.

I think that depreciation is pretty much in line with what SS accidentally gave away with some of their figures a while back. It turned out collection growth has been far outstripping payment/ market growth the last several years.

You sure that's not $1 per year per photo? If that's $1 per month that's excellent performance. But a very good point about the halving affect which is why I posted the example of RPIPM decreasing year over year.

Justanotherphotographer

« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2017, 09:09 »
0
LOl, yes quite sure it is per month. I have roughly 10000 images and make low 5 figures/month.

I have a mix of photos, illustrations and videos. Was at roughly $3/month in 2006 rising to $6 in 2007, bounced about since then but never as good. Since 2011/2012 a very steady decline until now and no sign of slowing. I'm sure I will soon be down to $1/image/year at this rate!

ETA ahhh poop, just reread the question and it says photos only! so sorry for ruining your poll! Can you delete my answer?

ETA 2, found the romoved answer button and removed it
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 09:12 by Justanotherphotographer »

« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2017, 09:13 »
0

ETA ahhh poop, just reread the question and it says photos only! so sorry for ruining your poll! Can you delete my answer?

ETA 2, found the romoved answer button and removed it

Haha, yeah, add in video and it's another story altogether.  ;)

But I believe Uber Images get around $3-4 per image per month.

PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 09:15 »
0
LOl, yes quite sure it is per month. I have roughly 10000 images and make low 5 figures/month.

I have a mix of photos, illustrations and videos. Was at roughly $3/month in 2006 rising to $6 in 2007, bounced about since then but never as good. Since 2011/2012 a very steady decline until now and no sign of slowing. I'm sure I will soon be down to $1/image/year at this rate!

ETA ahhh poop, just reread the question and it says photos only! so sorry for ruining your poll! Can you delete my answer?

ETA 2, found the romoved answer button and removed it

LOL, if you have photo-only stats just update the poll

« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 11:47 »
+1
Good poll and hopefully more than 11 will participate to gather some decent stats.

One comment: I don't believe the linear extrapolation assumption is working in this case. Increasing the number of photos will not lead to an equivalent linear increase in revenues.
In my opinion, the revenue vs number of photo ratio slowly tappers off (logarithmic?), since the bulk of the revenue comes from a small percentage of very good photos based on a specific style or inspiration, often difficult to replicate and sustain in a factory like production.

Increasing the production will probably add photos at the end of the RPI tail, while very a tiny fraction will fall among the big earners able to drive the totals up.

In other words, beyond a certain threshold, where the logarithmic and the linear models overlap (a few hundred photos?) one might have to quadruple the number of photos only to double the revenue. The bigger the port, the more difficult it becomes to increase revenue.
The relation might look like the graph below.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 12:11 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2017, 12:39 »
0
In other words, beyond a certain threshold, where the logarithmic and the linear models overlap (a few hundred photos?) one might have to quadruple the number of photos only to double the revenue. The bigger the port, the more difficult it becomes to increase revenue.
The relation might look like the graph below.

True, but that depends on the maturity of the skills of a particular contributor when they start.

The bestseller images can come later, after 5 years, when skill has increased and knowledge of the market is bigger.

I've seen it happen many times at certain places where sales are visible and forums are active. It can take 3 years before a big break and that curve will look very, very different.

There is no normal.

« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2017, 12:52 »
0
In other words, beyond a certain threshold, where the logarithmic and the linear models overlap (a few hundred photos?) one might have to quadruple the number of photos only to double the revenue. The bigger the port, the more difficult it becomes to increase revenue.
The relation might look like the graph below.

True, but that depends on the maturity of the skills of a particular contributor when they start.

The bestseller images can come later, after 5 years, when skill has increased and knowledge of the market is bigger.

I've seen it happen many times at certain places where sales are visible and forums are active. It can take 3 years before a big break and that curve will look very, very different.

There is no normal.

Yes, your are right, this is also possible.
What we have to ask ourselves is what kind of relation is valid for the contributor population taken as a whole.
There are always exceptions. Global statistics, trends and rules do not apply to all contributors, but to a large majority.

My "theory" is one way of explaining a common sentiment observed on this forum: a lot of enthusiasm from newbies, happy to see their efforts rewarded in a linear way, while older contributors have the feeling of working in vain manifesting discontent, frustration and depression.

Anyway, since we don't have real stats and good studies on this topic, I am aware that my "theory" is only a speculation, as good or as bad as any other, including the linear assumption made by the OP.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 12:54 by Zero Talent »

Justanotherphotographer

« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2017, 13:52 »
+1
The stock performer guys ran the numbers a while ago. Basically images have a lifespan so as your portfolio grows you see diminishing returns. With a constant stream of uploads you are increasing your portfolio size by a smaller and smaller percentage the bigger it gets. That's laying aside the problems with increases in payouts now being much smaller than increases in overall collection sizes I already mentioned.

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2017, 14:23 »
0
I put this together a few months ago as a case study of an "average" contributor.

Some assumptions:

Year 1: $2 RPI/year, 50 images/month approved
Year 2: $2 RPI/year, 75 images/month approved
Year 3: $2 RPI/year, 100 images/month approved
Year 4 onwards: stopped submitting and depreciation started calculated at 3.33%/monthly accumulated.

Total accumulated revenue after Year 3: $6,830

« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 14:27 by Brasilnut »

« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2017, 17:03 »
0
Way too many variables not included and assumptions to draw any definite conclusions about any specific contributor but I'd go along with Zerotalents overall model.


PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2017, 17:48 »
0
Way too many variables not included and assumptions to draw any definite conclusions about any specific contributor but I'd go along with Zerotalents overall model.

Yes a lot of variables which is why I said this is just a loose ballpark. But, if you notice, it's a fairly small range with most responses between .10 and .49 cents. If it was a totally inaccurate model the numbers would be all over the place.

If anyone wants to post more detail about their RPI stats/curve over a few year period that would be interesting.

« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2017, 00:35 »
0
Way too many variables not included and assumptions to draw any definite conclusions about any specific contributor but I'd go along with Zerotalents overall model.

Yes a lot of variables which is why I said this is just a loose ballpark. But, if you notice, it's a fairly small range with most responses between .10 and .49 cents. If it was a totally inaccurate model the numbers would be all over the place.

If anyone wants to post more detail about their RPI stats/curve over a few year period that would be interesting.
Not so much the range but the projections based on it. Variables would be what will happen to the industry, whether the contributor specialises/diversifies, subject matter how experienced the contributor is and will they improve. Its helpful and an interesting stat but I wouldn't put a deposit down on a Ferrari based on it  :o.

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2017, 08:50 »
+1
Good poll and hopefully more than 11 will participate to gather some decent stats.

One comment: I don't believe the linear extrapolation assumption is working in this case. Increasing the number of photos will not lead to an equivalent linear increase in revenues.
In my opinion, the revenue vs number of photo ratio slowly tappers off (logarithmic?), since the bulk of the revenue comes from a small percentage of very good photos based on a specific style or inspiration, often difficult to replicate and sustain in a factory like production.

Increasing the production will probably add photos at the end of the RPI tail, while very a tiny fraction will fall among the big earners able to drive the totals up.

In other words, beyond a certain threshold, where the logarithmic and the linear models overlap (a few hundred photos?) one might have to quadruple the number of photos only to double the revenue. The bigger the port, the more difficult it becomes to increase revenue.
The relation might look like the graph below.

Yes agree. And that's where the micro model isn't viable for most people who either don't live in lower cost areas or have an image factory. RPIPM usually decreases as you produce more images. When you start, it's not hard to quadruple 100 images. When you get to 1,000 images quadrupling is more of a challenge. When you get to 10,000 images unless you have an image factory it's unlike you're going to be able to produce 20-40,000 images by yourself. You've hit the image production ceiling and revenue starts dropping.

« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2017, 09:22 »
0
IFthe poll is accurate, the most interesting thing I see is that most people are making over $1.00 per image per year. Indeed, well over half should be making over $1.50 per image per year. I had seen in several discussions lately that $1.00-$1.50 per image per year was attainable with a really good portfolio. Either most people on here are really good or the estimate of what a really good portfolio is should be higher (like $2.00 per image per year?)


steheap

  • Author of best selling "Get Started in Stock"

« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2017, 09:30 »
0
The RPI also depends on the number of agencies you have images with, so getting to $1.20 a year with 15 agencies is obviously easier than if you submit to just one or two.

Steve

« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2017, 09:47 »
0
I already voted taking into consideration only micro images.
Between 0.50 and 0.99 (for me 0,70)

But I have videos and photos on sites that pay better sometimes.
I do not know if it helps, but:

I have>
Total videos and photos = 2042
September earned = $ 2642
average year (last 12 months) = $ 2132

So in my mind I earn 1.04 per image / video every month.
I do not know if this is a stupid account,  but I think if I keep the quality and can get 3000 images / videos I can earn the equivalent or more.

But I'm not a professional photographer and I do not use photographic models and I do not have high costs. So I believe I get a good payout.

« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2017, 10:22 »
0
IFthe poll is accurate, the most interesting thing I see is that most people are making over $1.00 per image per year. Indeed, well over half should be making over $1.50 per image per year. I had seen in several discussions lately that $1.00-$1.50 per image per year was attainable with a really good portfolio. Either most people on here are really good or the estimate of what a really good portfolio is should be higher (like $2.00 per image per year?)

In my opinion the ballpark number should be $1 per image per year on Shutterstock and $2 when you submit to all agencies
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 10:25 by Desintegrator »

PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2017, 10:27 »
+1
I already voted taking into consideration only micro images.
Between 0.50 and 0.99 (for me 0,70)

But I have videos and photos on sites that pay better sometimes.
I do not know if it helps, but:

I have>
Total videos and photos = 2042
September earned = $ 2642
average year (last 12 months) = $ 2132

So in my mind I earn 1.04 per image / video every month.
I do not know if this is a stupid account,  but I think if I keep the quality and can get 3000 images / videos I can earn the equivalent or more.

But I'm not a professional photographer and I do not use photographic models and I do not have high costs. So I believe I get a good payout.

It's interesting for overall RPI. But with people doing so many different types of media would an overall RPI poll be useful? Meaning a video-only person may be getting $2 while a photo only person may be getting .25.

As far as getting to 3,000 images and maintaining the same RPI, historically this doesn't seem to happen for the majority of people. Of course there are exceptions, but all things staying the same, RPI tends to drop as portfolio sizes increases.


 

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