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Author Topic: Sales dropping. Istock especially.  (Read 30787 times)

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XPTO

« Reply #75 on: September 19, 2011, 09:49 »
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I also think that economy has a lot to do with the current situation. In fact, this month of September has some similar signs to the Sept. 08 when the crisis initially exploded.

News about a possible second recession in the US are frequent in the news, and if it may not reveal to be true at least scares a lot of businessmen who start to get precautions and hold investments, namely in the marketing area. We must not forget that the psychological area of the economy is fundamental, if not the most important part of all. In economics, the fear of a recessions is many times what it takes to make it happen.

Then we have Europe, with serious troubles in Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain, Italy and also potentially UK and France in the horizon. There are thousand of businesses closing down due to the deficit crisis, because the increase of taxes are skyrocketing, people have less money to spend which put business into trouble. If we sum to the problems that the moving of factories to the third world and developing countries brought, and still continue to happen, again more unemployment, less consumption, more problems to business, less investment in marketing.

Of course the huge number of new contributors, and new submissions did not help.


« Reply #76 on: September 19, 2011, 10:06 »
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In the future I see iStock as actually being the strongest. They are moving to a midstock level instead of a microstock one. They have more avenues to reach more buyers. Now I am on the video side and I can say it is doing well for me, I had a much better summer than expected. Yes I do this full-time but I also work on other projects to keep my skills varied and sharp. I have had numerous people ask me to teach them. I always say, go to iStock read the material, post images or clips, get accepted and then get back to me. Funny I never hear from them again. iStock is starting to really focus on content while the others still take about everything. Trust me I have both eyes open but my bet still rest on the iStock horse.

michealo

« Reply #77 on: September 19, 2011, 10:07 »
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Surprisingly it looks like that my income for Sep this year will be below my Mar sales this year. This is the first time in five years of production and certainly not due to me not uploading enough images. I have asked around and the trend seems to be the same for most contributors, especially Istock exclusives. Istock seems very affected in both sales and overall income.
Shutterstock has gone up it seems but has the same low "per-item" commission. Fotolia is about equal and DT seems to go a little below (Probably because of the upload limit they have there)
What are your experiences..And explanations...

I don't think it's surprising at all, you have drifted away from your core competency of creating sale able images to being a conference speaker, evangelist, trainer, etc.

And yes you may be uploading enough images but they are essentially the same images, or same sort of images. And other people have learned (with a lot of help from you) just how to fill your niche.

You can blame the macro economic factors all you like but that is the easy option

« Reply #78 on: September 19, 2011, 10:16 »
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I remember Yuri saying in a recent interview that other agencies have been check-mated by istock years ago, that IS just does everything better, they are way ahead, and ceos' of other agencies are just amateur photogs... quite outspoken which is much appriciated imho. How does all that look now?

I personally don't think it's the economic situation yet. (it will be) Altho it's heading for a collapse, it works in weird way (thats one of the reasons it's likely to be a total collapse): despite being buried in debt, the western, developed world still has money to burn, loans on top of loans, untill everything implodes. The empty space from entities that have gone bankrupt and stopped buying, is likely getting filled up by the ones who are only on their way to becoming bankrupt and seek cheaper alternatives... so imho it's oversupply, maybe for different reasons. Oversupply on IS because they lost customers. Oversupply un SS simply because they have so much stuff, and they have a lot more high volume, high rate contributors. Almost 17 million shots as I remeber? vs. IS with about 10 mill.


Please don't hide. Tell us who you are especially when making such bold quotes on my behalf.


I think it was here: http://blog.johnlund.com/2011/01/yuri-arcurs-leading-microstock.html

"I think that while the all-traditional industry had a big problem realizing and understanding when they were facing serious competition from microstock, the microstock non-exclusive agencies right now have a very serious lack in understanding the actual competition that they are getting from iStock. They dont get how far ahead iStock is actually becoming and this could potentially be a problem over time. The microstock agencies are paralyzed by their own success and they can't evolve beyond the very simple business model of 2004/5. iStock can, and does so extremely well with multiple price brackets and levels, and with educational events for photographers that teach that "little extra". The problem is also that the primary CEO's of the non-exclusive agencies are amateur photographers at best and often don't know good design, good pictures from less good ones, and really don't care too much about the "whine" in the design world. iStock is way better at this and when we start getting out of our current economic crisis, they are prepared for nurturing the high paying customers. Non-exclusive agencies will be the "leftovers", but the CEO's will probably disagree to the grave, not realizing that they have been check-mated for a couple of years and iStock has been earning bulk in those years. It's sad, because if the non-exclusive actually started doing a higher price bracket, it would be followed up and demanded by the photographers that other agencies also do this and it would outpay iStock's programs because of the total volume of non-exclusive traffic.
I have chosen to be non-exclusive as this was clearly the smartest thing to do when I first started, but at the moment it is easier to compete when being exclusive with iStock. I suspect that this will change when the microstock agencies begin looking at iStock and how they do things. I think Ill stay non-exclusive for the time being. Unless a convincing offer is madenone have been convincing enough so far."  January 21, 2011 at http://blog.johnlund.com/2011/01/yuri-arcurs-leading-microstock.html
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 10:18 by Digital66 »

« Reply #79 on: September 19, 2011, 10:17 »
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Be prepared for iStock price increase!

« Reply #80 on: September 19, 2011, 10:29 »
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I don't think it's surprising at all, you have drifted away from your core competency of creating sale able images to being a conference speaker, evangelist, trainer, etc.

And yes you may be uploading enough images but they are essentially the same images, or same sort of images. And other people have learned (with a lot of help from you) just how to fill your niche.

You can blame the macro economic factors all you like but that is the easy option


Nail -> head.  Also, people may be getting tired of seeing the same models, as popular as they are: http://www.hallme.com/blog/stock-image-bingo/

lthn

    This user is banned.
« Reply #81 on: September 19, 2011, 10:30 »
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I remember Yuri saying in a recent interview that other agencies have been check-mated by istock years ago, that IS just does everything better, they are way ahead, and ceos' of other agencies are just amateur photogs... quite outspoken which is much appriciated imho. How does all that look now?

I personally don't think it's the economic situation yet. (it will be) Altho it's heading for a collapse, it works in weird way (thats one of the reasons it's likely to be a total collapse): despite being buried in debt, the western, developed world still has money to burn, loans on top of loans, untill everything implodes. The empty space from entities that have gone bankrupt and stopped buying, is likely getting filled up by the ones who are only on their way to becoming bankrupt and seek cheaper alternatives... so imho it's oversupply, maybe for different reasons. Oversupply on IS because they lost customers. Oversupply un SS simply because they have so much stuff, and they have a lot more high volume, high rate contributors. Almost 17 million shots as I remeber? vs. IS with about 10 mill.

Please don't hide. Tell us who you are especially when making such bold quotes on my behalf.

No sry, not becasue of you or this post at all, but because I want to keep my 'speech free' about the agencies, and I do have an amount of un-nice things to say about them. I think they deserve it. I also do know that they take retribution just for ppl stating their opinion. Wouldn't know me anyway I'm not a household name in 'micro', I'm an art director turned photographer. I see a potential of having an ok side income from micro by building an ok portfolio, thats how I got involved. Thats all. The interview is the one by John Lund on his blog, anyone can find it.

Microbius

« Reply #82 on: September 19, 2011, 10:50 »
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ETA.

don't know how I missed someone already posted the same thing
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 02:16 by Microbius »

« Reply #83 on: September 19, 2011, 11:03 »
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I don't think anybody knows the correct answer and we can all theorize.  I agree with the theory of the economy but I also have a theory that won't be favorable among some of the contributors here....

I think another part of the issue is that we are licensing images on a royalty free basis.  Major buyers (I'm not talking new users, casual users, or the local small business) have licensed our images on a royalty free basis and have built a library of those images that they will continue to use internally until they go out of style.  Under the license agreement, they can do this...and they do.  Various marketing departments of these companies have a library of these images that they are going to continue to use over and over again.

Undoubtedly iStock has tried its best at alienating both buyers and contributors, then add to this the "All you can eat" banquet of subscription selling which encourages the speculative buying of images that may not be needed for the current project but may useful for another one it is not difficult to imagine more and more buyers leaving iStock and adopting the subs model to assemble their own image bank over a short period of time that would 'satisfice' most of their requirements be recycling and combining, then withdraw from active purchasing.

« Reply #84 on: September 19, 2011, 11:13 »
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I think it was here: http://blog.johnlund.com/2011/01/yuri-arcurs-leading-microstock.html


Yeah, I remember reading that too. The iStock praise seemed so bizarre, since it seemed like (at that time) iStock had just blown off its foot with a shotgun and is still hobbling around now from the wound.

« Reply #85 on: September 19, 2011, 11:49 »
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I think it was here: http://blog.johnlund.com/2011/01/yuri-arcurs-leading-microstock.html


Yeah, I remember reading that too. The iStock praise seemed so bizarre, since it seemed like (at that time) iStock had just blown off its foot with a shotgun and is still hobbling around now from the wound.


It does read rather like a message to istock inviting them to make a special offer, rather than something designed to inform the public.

« Reply #86 on: September 19, 2011, 11:51 »
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It does read rather like a message to istock inviting them to make a special offer, rather than something designed to inform the public.

^^^ That's what I thought too.

helix7

« Reply #87 on: September 19, 2011, 11:58 »
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I remember Yuri saying in a recent interview that other agencies have been check-mated by istock years ago, that IS just does everything better, they are way ahead, and ceos' of other agencies are just amateur photogs...

The economy was still bad when he made that comment. I don't get where Yuri is going with this. istock is great, then istock stinks, then it's the economy...

lagereek

« Reply #88 on: September 19, 2011, 12:21 »
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I just searched the word "refinery",  since its in my interest and what do I find?  same boring models, posing as refinery workers,  Colgate smile into the camera and ofcourse the max DL, for one of these shots are embarrassing,  why?  because the people in these shots are not working, they are posing, hecne, they dont sell.
Now, you would think that a site like IS would have the knowledge, the expertice? right?  but sadly no,  they dont and why?  because then obviously the pohotographer is an exclusive.
This is why IS,  apart from the Vettas,  is not making any money from independants.
As I have always maintained,  you have to think commercially, you have to think, reallity.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 12:41 by lagereek »

« Reply #89 on: September 19, 2011, 13:08 »
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I just searched the word "refinery",  since its in my interest and what do I find?  same boring models, posing as refinery workers,  Colgate smile into the camera and ofcourse the max DL, for one of these shots are embarrassing,  why?  because the people in these shots are not working, they are posing, hecne, they dont sell.
Now, you would think that a site like IS would have the knowledge, the expertice? right?  but sadly no,  they dont and why?  because then obviously the pohotographer is an exclusive.
This is why IS,  apart from the Vettas,  is not making any money from independants.
As I have always maintained,  you have to think commercially, you have to think, reallity.

Maybe yes, but more than 90% of people in stock are models, professional or amateur. Stock is not exactly "photo-verit", there are other places for that. I have shots with models playing doctors and shots with real doctors in action and the ones with models sell better (and the same with teachers). On the other hand, these shots you say about the refinery with models theme seem to sell well too.

« Reply #90 on: September 19, 2011, 13:25 »
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I don't get where Yuri is going with this. istock is great, then istock stinks, then it's the economy...

iStock was great, now iStock does stink. Re the economy:
Bloomberg Business Week 9-18-11
Forecasts: The US Economy is Flashing Recession
The US Economy may again be on the cusp of recession. Stagnant payrolls in August added to recent data showing that manufacturing is slowing, consumer confidence is sliding, home values are falling..."

When the economy first turned down, I think it helped microstock, as image buyers who had been using RM began to look for ways to cut costs. Now the pool of new customers may be a lot smaller.

Cogent Marketing

« Reply #91 on: September 19, 2011, 14:30 »
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Response to Yuri: Posted by:lthn
No sorry, not because of you or this post at all, but because I want to keep my 'speech free' about the agencies, and I do have an amount of not nice things to say about them. I think they deserve it. I also do know that they take retribution just for people stating their opinion.

A truly pathetic excuse. In the name (if I may) of many others here on this forum who do not hide behind anonymity in any shape or form, and still state what they believe, think and without fear of consequence - post it.

Grow up or grow a backbone. Or maybe better still, don't make comments at all if you don't have the guts to state who you are.

(PS) sorry, I could help but correct your spelling and grammar in the pasted section.


ShadySue

« Reply #92 on: September 19, 2011, 14:40 »
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Response to Yuri: Posted by:lthn
No sorry, not because of you or this post at all, but because I want to keep my 'speech free' about the agencies, and I do have an amount of not nice things to say about them. I think they deserve it. I also do know that they take retribution just for people stating their opinion.
A truly pathetic excuse. In the name (if I may) of many others here on this forum who do not hide behind anonymity in any shape or form, and still state what they believe, think and without fear of consequence - post it.
Grow up or grow a backbone. Or maybe better still, don't make comments at all if you don't have the guts to state who you are.
Am I missing something or is there something extremely ironic about the above post?

Cogent Marketing

« Reply #93 on: September 19, 2011, 14:45 »
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Response to Yuri: Posted by:lthn
No sorry, not because of you or this post at all, but because I want to keep my 'speech free' about the agencies, and I do have an amount of not nice things to say about them. I think they deserve it. I also do know that they take retribution just for people stating their opinion.
A truly pathetic excuse. In the name (if I may) of many others here on this forum who do not hide behind anonymity in any shape or form, and still state what they believe, think and without fear of consequence - post it.
Grow up or grow a backbone. Or maybe better still, don't make comments at all if you don't have the guts to state who you are.
Am I missing something or is there something extremely ironic about the above post?
Now I'm confused. Unless your suggesting I'm hiding behind the same name I use on Veer, DT, ISP, SS, Pixmac, Alamy, Superstock, CanStockPhoto etc etc....

Or do you mean something else?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 14:46 by Cogent Marketing »

« Reply #94 on: September 19, 2011, 14:47 »
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Response to Yuri: Posted by:lthn
No sorry, not because of you or this post at all, but because I want to keep my 'speech free' about the agencies, and I do have an amount of not nice things to say about them. I think they deserve it. I also do know that they take retribution just for people stating their opinion.
A truly pathetic excuse. In the name (if I may) of many others here on this forum who do not hide behind anonymity in any shape or form, and still state what they believe, think and without fear of consequence - post it.
Grow up or grow a backbone. Or maybe better still, don't make comments at all if you don't have the guts to state who you are.
Am I missing something or is there something extremely ironic about the above post?
Now I'm confused. Unless you suggesting I'm hiding behind the same name I use on Veer, DT, ISP, SS, Pixmac, Alamy, Superstock, CanStockPhoto etc etc....

Or do you mean something else?

The first thing I did was click on your avitar to find out who you were. There's no info there so it looked like you were hiding. Thanks for clearing that up.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 14:53 by rimglow »

nruboc

« Reply #95 on: September 19, 2011, 14:52 »
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Response to Yuri: Posted by:lthn
No sorry, not because of you or this post at all, but because I want to keep my 'speech free' about the agencies, and I do have an amount of not nice things to say about them. I think they deserve it. I also do know that they take retribution just for people stating their opinion.
A truly pathetic excuse. In the name (if I may) of many others here on this forum who do not hide behind anonymity in any shape or form, and still state what they believe, think and without fear of consequence - post it.
Grow up or grow a backbone. Or maybe better still, don't make comments at all if you don't have the guts to state who you are.
Am I missing something or is there something extremely ironic about the above post?
Now I'm confused. Unless your suggesting I'm hiding behind the same name I use on Veer, DT, ISP, SS, Pixmac, Alamy, Superstock, CanStockPhoto etc etc....

Or do you mean something else?


I can't see the top of your head in your picture, also will you supply your social security number, please...LOL

lthn

    This user is banned.
« Reply #96 on: September 19, 2011, 14:54 »
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Response to Yuri: Posted by:lthn
No sorry, not because of you or this post at all, but because I want to keep my 'speech free' about the agencies, and I do have an amount of not nice things to say about them. I think they deserve it. I also do know that they take retribution just for people stating their opinion.

A truly pathetic excuse. In the name (if I may) of many others here on this forum who do not hide behind anonymity in any shape or form, and still state what they believe, think and without fear of consequence - post it.

Grow up or grow a backbone. Or maybe better still, don't make comments at all if you don't have the guts to state who you are.

(PS) sorry, I could help but correct your spelling and grammar in the pasted section.

Are you Mr. Cogent? A son to Mr. and Mrs. Marketing?

Cogent Marketing

« Reply #97 on: September 19, 2011, 15:01 »
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Response to Yuri: Posted by:lthn
No sorry, not because of you or this post at all, but because I want to keep my 'speech free' about the agencies, and I do have an amount of not nice things to say about them. I think they deserve it. I also do know that they take retribution just for people stating their opinion.

A truly pathetic excuse. In the name (if I may) of many others here on this forum who do not hide behind anonymity in any shape or form, and still state what they believe, think and without fear of consequence - post it.

Grow up or grow a backbone. Or maybe better still, don't make comments at all if you don't have the guts to state who you are.

(PS) sorry, I could help but correct your spelling and grammar in the pasted section.



Are you Mr. Cogent? A son to Mr. and Mrs. Marketing?

No. I'm the owner of cogent marketing communications. www.cogentmarketing.co.uk

« Reply #98 on: September 19, 2011, 15:13 »
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I think lthn would prefer to know your actual name, not just your business connections.  It isn't listed on your website, nor whois .

(Off topic)

Cogent Marketing

« Reply #99 on: September 19, 2011, 15:24 »
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I think lthn would prefer to know your actual name, not just your business connections.  It isn't listed on your website, nor whois .

(Off topic)
Fine I have no problem with that. But with great respect you're missing the point I was making.

Lthn is completely anonymous but feels qualified to comment on other members of this forum. I am not anonymous. My company name is my forum ID. You can see my website, my avatar and you can see what I do. What do any of us know about Lthn?

The point I am (obviously) failing to make is that if your going to critique other professionals on this form you should have the courtesy - may be it's not guts - (too harsh) but it is the good grace to show yourself openly so others can make informed opinions on both sides of the debate. I think that's important (within the bounds of ID safety) on these types of forums. I think it is important to know (a little) about the person you are having dialogue with. Old fashioned maybe. And maybe I am, but that's me.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 15:29 by Cogent Marketing »

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