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Author Topic: Selling Portfolio  (Read 10298 times)

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« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2010, 20:00 »
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I don't agree that the sites would be competing with customers. The sites would not be creating images or accepting/rejecting them. The images have already been accepted and are selling irrespective of who owns the image. It would be a service to photographers who could rely on a site to purchase the images at some predetermined price should they wish to sell through change in interest, retirement, death, etc.


cascoly

  • Photography, travel & online games at cascoly.com

« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2010, 20:42 »
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I don't agree that the sites would be competing with customers. The sites would not be creating images or accepting/rejecting them. The images have already been accepted and are selling irrespective of who owns the image. It would be a service to photographers who could rely on a site to purchase the images at some predetermined price should they wish to sell through change in interest, retirement, death, etc.

but again, why invest capital in old images when you can get same product for free and only have to pay AFTER the sale is made;  maybe they'd have to decrease the rejects for a few wks on "too similar", 'already got enuf a thus'  but there's no financial reason to tie up yur own capital when others are begging you to take a % of ther sales.  there are very few portfolios that couldnt be replaced quickly.  the only way this might work is if the buy price were so low that the company was assured a profit in a very short time

s

« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2010, 21:33 »
0
In my latest nightmare I cant figure how model relise will be on translated iStock if I buy you port.
My friend shoot his wife yesterday and they reject him with Nosensical explanation. Bla, bla its new, its in gray scale but it must be gray but in rgb,
You exif data is from 1904 year etc. etc.....
You whitness are dead ?!
Your model release does not comply with the new standards. Images shot after the 1st of September 2009 must comply with the new guidelines???

lagereek

« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2010, 02:44 »
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With a bone-fide port like this, why dont you approach one of the leading Agencies for outright sale, they are then working on your port at 100% profit and exclusivity perhaps.

« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2010, 02:48 »
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Here's an off-the-wall idea to see what the market value for your portfolio might be: Put it up for auction on eBay. You can even create a bit of a stir by starting the bidding at $0.99 with no minimum selling price.

Given that you'll be the very first person to ever do this, you'll be sure to get lots of publicity from the prominent blogs: Microsoft Diaries, Lookstat, PDN, Ellen Boughn, and Fast Media Magazine come immediately to mind. Go ahead, give it a try - you've got nothing to lose, and who knows, you might even find a buyer. And be sure to mention you got the idea on this forum if you do it!

Microbius

« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2010, 05:51 »
0
Here's an off-the-wall idea to see what the market value for your portfolio might be: Put it up for auction on eBay. You can even create a bit of a stir by starting the bidding at $0.99 with no minimum selling price.

Given that you'll be the very first person to ever do this, you'll be sure to get lots of publicity from the prominent blogs: Microsoft Diaries, Lookstat, PDN, Ellen Boughn, and Fast Media Magazine come immediately to mind. Go ahead, give it a try - you've got nothing to lose, and who knows, you might even find a buyer. And be sure to mention you got the idea on this forum if you do it!
Great idea, I'll certainly be putting a bid........ one of the very early ones though!

hqimages

  • www.draiochtwebdesign.com
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2010, 06:25 »
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Unfortunately the price of things is set by the market, so you will only make what someone is wiling to pay.. I think it would be a hard thing to sell actually..

« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2010, 06:59 »
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Your best bet might be to approach a few of the big agencies with the idea of them buying the collection and treating/promoting it as their "in-house" library. Although it definitely goes against the grain at iStock, I could see SS, DT and particulary FT being interested.

Good luck!

I would think that any site's offer would only take into account income from sales on that site.  An individual would base their offer on income from all sites the portfolio appears on.   Should mean a substantially lower offer from a site than an individual.

fred

michealo

« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2010, 07:41 »
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You can have approach similar like in business or stock market...
Average  P/E (price/earnings) is 15 for stock market in global, this means that each company is worth 15 of their average annual earnings...

If we calculate 50% drop in earnings every year (maybe this is too much but customer wants a premium on his offer) that is:
50+25+12,5+6,25+3,125+1,56+0,78+0,39+,019+0,09...= cca $100K

15 relates specifically to the S&P 500 and not the market as a whole

« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2010, 08:44 »
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I would think that any site's offer would only take into account income from sales on that site.  An individual would base their offer on income from all sites the portfolio appears on.   Should mean a substantially lower offer from a site than an individual.

Not necessarily. With Istock helping themselves to 80% of the sales revenue they actually make far more than I do each month from my portfolio, even with the contributions from other agencies. Having said that because they already get 80% of the revenue they haven't got much of an incentive to pay for the remaining 20%, other perhaps than denying the images to their competitors.

« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2010, 09:32 »
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Assuming a site paid zero for a portfolio they would add an immediate 20% to their bottom line with nearly zero cost. If they paid, say, 2-3 months income stream for those images then their "payback" is 2-3 months. The 20% additional bottom line profits continue indefinitely. Not a bad investment.

« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2010, 14:10 »
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^^^ Stock images have little or nothing in common with the financial 'stock market'. You might just as well try to compare a portfolio's value with that of sheep, pigs and cattle in another 'stock market'. If pork futures are rising in price it doesn't mean the portfolio's value will be increasing too.

I think you are mistaken...

I am on financial stock market for a more than 6 years constantly...

Also, I am talking about average ratio (P/E) for all types of earnings through history...
All markets throughout history breathe about 15 earnings for the total value....
This refers to approach when each job is considered like a factory of money, regardless of the business sector.

But if you need better suggestion for right valuation, go to the Internet and find current P/E for Getty images... They have stocks on the financial stock market...

Then the value will be : Getty's P/E * Average annual earnings for portfolio...

What will be the annual average earnings for a portfolio, in which the period, depends on the assessment of the owner....
Yuri on his website has a good calculation for it ... From his experience ...

« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2010, 14:40 »
0
I think you are mistaken...

I am on financial stock market for a more than 6 years constantly...

Also, I am talking about average ratio (P/E) for all types of earnings through history...
All markets throughout history breathe about 15 earnings for the total value....
This refers to approach when each job is considered like a factory of money, regardless of the business sector.

But if you need better suggestion for right valuation, go to the Internet and find current P/E for Getty images... They have stocks on the financial stock market...

Then the value will be : Getty's P/E * Average annual earnings for portfolio...

What will be the annual average earnings for a portfolio, in which the period, depends on the assessment of the owner....
Yuri on his website has a good calculation for it ... From his experience ...

Ok then __ I'll happily sell you my portfolio for just 10x annual earnings. According to your calculations that would be a real bargain for you wouldn't it? You could probably buy everyone else's portfolio too for 10x annual earnings. I'd even produce a new portfolio every year for you if you're paying 10x earnings for it.

Do you realise that new images are being accepted at the rate of 5M per year? That means that most agencies will probably have doubled their collections in the next couple of years. Unless the market volume or the price doubles too then the average image will probably be earning less, maybe half what it is today. And it won't stop there either. We've all enjoyed an ever-increasing market and rising prices for the last few years. Once those factors level out, as surely they must at some point, then the same size pie will be split amongst an ever-increasing number of images. I suggest that even paying 2x annual earnings for a portfolio might prove generous.

« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2010, 15:10 »
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A business broker would have a struggle trying to put evaluations on micro stock images. You've got an extremely small supply of goods that are made much smaller as a percentage of the supply every day. You've got an increasing "decay" rate of effective sales due to those new competing images coming on line. I don't think the annual earnings evaluation method would mean much in this scenario. 

And you've got the mercurial nature of each site regarding pricing and business practices. That's a huge uncertainty factor that would further devalue such an evaluation. Add to that the fold rate of second and third tier sites with next to zero payout possibilities. And there doesn't seem to be any "comps" of earlier similar sales. Or, for that matter, any market at all if the major sites won't honor the copyright sale to another party.

If they came up with a value at all it would likely be a few cents per image. Still, sites could find it profitable at a low enough price to offer to buy them.  It wouldn't surprise me if some site isn't considering this method of supply already.

« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2010, 07:37 »
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You all talk about the risks, I am talking about the averages and the current state ...
When you buy business or stocks, you buying it at the current state of the economy and markets...

The current state is that RPI increase, price increases, growth in the number of customers that still exceeds the growth in the number of photos ...

What will be tomorrow, or for a couple of years, who knows....
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 07:45 by borg »

« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2010, 07:46 »
0
Here's an off-the-wall idea to see what the market value for your portfolio might be: Put it up for auction on eBay. You can even create a bit of a stir by starting the bidding at $0.99 with no minimum selling price.

Given that you'll be the very first person to ever do this, you'll be sure to get lots of publicity from the prominent blogs: Microsoft Diaries, Lookstat, PDN, Ellen Boughn, and Fast Media Magazine come immediately to mind. Go ahead, give it a try - you've got nothing to lose, and who knows, you might even find a buyer. And be sure to mention you got the idea on this forum if you do it!

I would go this way :)

« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2010, 08:00 »
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Did it occur to anybody that when you take over an existing port, you will have to re-upload all under your own account? That means 15 per week on IS and back to level 1 on DT. Let alone if they would re-accept all, since technical standards went up a lot the past 5 years. Prepare for some unpleasant surprises in earnings, compared to the current earnings of OP.


Microbius

« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2010, 08:36 »
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Unless the new owner contacts the sites about allowing the existing account to continue under new ownership. As it's a partnership it is a business account rather than an individual's.

« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2010, 08:45 »
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Did it occur to anybody that when you take over an existing port, you will have to re-upload all under your own account? That means 15 per week on IS and back to level 1 on DT. Let alone if they would re-accept all, since technical standards went up a lot the past 5 years. Prepare for some unpleasant surprises in earnings, compared to the current earnings of OP.

I believe 99% will be accepted, look at his/their portfolio :)

PaulieWalnuts

  • You talkin' to me?
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2010, 09:57 »
0
You all talk about the risks, I am talking about the averages and the current state ...When you buy business or stocks, you buying it at the current state of the economy and markets...The current state is that RPI increase, price increases, growth in the number of customers that still exceeds the growth in the number of photos ...What will be tomorrow, or for a couple of years, who knows....
I did some digging and at least one site responded that they don't allow portfolio transfers. If all of them have the same policy this is a huge risk.

The seller would need to take down all of the images, they would need to transfer copyright, and then the buyer would upload those images to their portfolio.

You would be starting from scratch. Your RPI is zero. Your current state is zero. You no longer would have the same search placement as the images had before. It could take months to start seeing stable income and get a feel for what kind of income the portfolio would generate.

If I were considering buying a portfolio this issue just dropped my perception of value by quite a bit. It's not like taking over a restaurant that has stable and predictable income and things just continue as normal. You're closing the restaurant down and starting it over without knowing how business will be.

michealo

« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2010, 10:00 »
0
^^^ Stock images have little or nothing in common with the financial 'stock market'. You might just as well try to compare a portfolio's value with that of sheep, pigs and cattle in another 'stock market'. If pork futures are rising in price it doesn't mean the portfolio's value will be increasing too.

I think you are mistaken...

I am on financial stock market for a more than 6 years constantly...

Also, I am talking about average ratio (P/E) for all types of earnings through history...
All markets throughout history breathe about 15 earnings for the total value....
This refers to approach when each job is considered like a factory of money, regardless of the business sector.

But if you need better suggestion for right valuation, go to the Internet and find current P/E for Getty images... They have stocks on the financial stock market...

Then the value will be : Getty's P/E * Average annual earnings for portfolio...

What will be the annual average earnings for a portfolio, in which the period, depends on the assessment of the owner....
Yuri on his website has a good calculation for it ... From his experience ...

It is not 15 for the market as a whole
& Getty hasn't been quoted for years since it was taken private, so any PE you quote for them is historical.

lisafx

« Reply #46 on: May 29, 2010, 11:04 »
0
You all talk about the risks, I am talking about the averages and the current state ...When you buy business or stocks, you buying it at the current state of the economy and markets...The current state is that RPI increase, price increases, growth in the number of customers that still exceeds the growth in the number of photos ...What will be tomorrow, or for a couple of years, who knows....
I did some digging and at least one site responded that they don't allow portfolio transfers. If all of them have the same policy this is a huge risk.

The seller would need to take down all of the images, they would need to transfer copyright, and then the buyer would upload those images to their portfolio.

You would be starting from scratch. Your RPI is zero. Your current state is zero. You no longer would have the same search placement as the images had before. It could take months to start seeing stable income and get a feel for what kind of income the portfolio would generate.

If I were considering buying a portfolio this issue just dropped my perception of value by quite a bit. It's not like taking over a restaurant that has stable and predictable income and things just continue as normal. You're closing the restaurant down and starting it over without knowing how business will be.

Seems to me the smart way to get around this is to incorporate and list the portfolio and accounts at the micros as assets of the corporation.  Give the micros the corporate tax id # rather than your personal SS# and have them pay earnings to the corporation.  Then you sell the corporation and the accounts should stay open and continue as usual. 

« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2010, 12:02 »
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Not long ago you could sell images for $250 plus each. It wasn't hard to produce 50 to 100 a day. That wasn't long ago. I don't think you can anymore because projected income is much less. It's difficult to say what an images true income will be over anything longer than a year.  The market constantly makes huge adjustments that makes it impossible to say what will happen and how much an image is really worth. Given that I wouldn't pay 2 years income for image. No way.

« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2010, 12:03 »
0
You all talk about the risks, I am talking about the averages and the current state ...When you buy business or stocks, you buying it at the current state of the economy and markets...The current state is that RPI increase, price increases, growth in the number of customers that still exceeds the growth in the number of photos ...What will be tomorrow, or for a couple of years, who knows....
I did some digging and at least one site responded that they don't allow portfolio transfers. If all of them have the same policy this is a huge risk.

The seller would need to take down all of the images, they would need to transfer copyright, and then the buyer would upload those images to their portfolio.

You would be starting from scratch. Your RPI is zero. Your current state is zero. You no longer would have the same search placement as the images had before. It could take months to start seeing stable income and get a feel for what kind of income the portfolio would generate.

If I were considering buying a portfolio this issue just dropped my perception of value by quite a bit. It's not like taking over a restaurant that has stable and predictable income and things just continue as normal. You're closing the restaurant down and starting it over without knowing how business will be.

you are right Paulie,

to add on to this...what about the model and the property release, "you" as the buyer do not have the right to sell images without those.
You can't just transfer the Copyright, the Copyright is for the buyer to use the image, not to resell it.

« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2010, 21:49 »
0
to add on to this...what about the model and the property release, "you" as the buyer do not have the right to sell images without those.
You can't just transfer the Copyright, the Copyright is for the buyer to use the image, not to resell it.
The model releases her rights to the photographer, his heirs and assigns.


 

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