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Author Topic: Time to punish some mid/low tier agencies  (Read 8387 times)

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wut

« on: February 17, 2012, 19:09 »
0
With all the stunts that 123RF has started pulling, I think we should show them who's boss. It's obviously they think they've become big enough to start pushing us around, start walking all over us with their "RC system". Some other agencies like Photodune etc, that don't have the volume, also pay just 33%. I think no mid/low tier agency should pay us less than 50% (no agency really, but we should take one step at the time). I know ppl are not willing to pull stuff from IS (those that were have already done it), most ppl wouldn't do it at FT either since those agencies still bring in a relatively big chunk of their earnings. It's not easy to just write off 20 or 30% of your earnings. But for the vast majority of indies SS brings the most money in most cases 50% or even more (at least to those that are not spread around all agencies or make a lot at other top 4 agencies). But loosing 1 or 2 percent of earnings for deleting your port there and send them a strong msg, I really think if ppl would think about it, what that would bring us in the long run, no more squeezing of contributors all the time, would make it more than worth it. So if we make a list of all the baddies, put down reasons why they need a slap on the wrist (though it would be better in the face and with a punch) to make an end of this extortion. Since it's obviously not doable with the big agencies, we should at least do it with the small. We'll send them a msg, play fair or go bankrupt (or at least suffer big losses). You can't afford it small timers, not until you get big, but we won't let you become big unless you play fair.

To paint you a picture ;)
NEMESIS


RT


« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 19:17 »
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There's two types of readers here: Those that do it for business and those that do it for fun.

No disrespect but as I told you in your thread about 123RF I make my own decisions on whether I upload or stick with an agency and everyone else that does this as a business will most probably do exactly the same.

Some people here do it for fun and are happy to get $10 a year from an agency.

If you're looking to start a revolution I think you're wasting your breath.

WarrenPrice

« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 19:24 »
0
There's two types of readers here: Those that do it for business and those that do it for fun.

No disrespect but as I told you in your thread about 123RF I make my own decisions on whether I upload or stick with an agency and everyone else that does this as a business will most probably do exactly the same.

Some people here do it for fun and are happy to get $10 a year from an agency.

If you're looking to start a revolution I think you're wasting your breath.

Not only that, Wut, but you are trying to take a leadership role from a seemingly weak position; have you looked at how many MSG users are ignoring you?

wut

« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 19:28 »
0
@RT: I'd like to make a change. We make our own luck/fate/destiny/whatever you call it, but if we all remain passive, there will never be a change. However I do understand your way of thinking and just focusing on business. Your speedometers are impressive, so you must be doing things right. OTOH I wouldn't care either if I'd make 5k/month, loosing 20% sure is loosing more in dollars compared to someone making a fraction of that, but I wouldn't care too much about loosing a grand, 4k is still plenty ;) (if one is not a greedy bas-tard, but if one is, he/she's no better than those agencies and is mentally in sync with them). But for someone barely making it through the month, making 25% more is really significant, huge actually. It would be for me, I would de facto be able to live off of MS earnings (now I still have to hustle to make the difference by doing things I don't like doing as much as MS).

I think it's definitely worth a try. Otherwise they'll just keep on laughing (pissing really) in our faces and keep on eating free lunches (at our expenses of course)

wut

« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 19:29 »
0
There's two types of readers here: Those that do it for business and those that do it for fun.

No disrespect but as I told you in your thread about 123RF I make my own decisions on whether I upload or stick with an agency and everyone else that does this as a business will most probably do exactly the same.

Some people here do it for fun and are happy to get $10 a year from an agency.

If you're looking to start a revolution I think you're wasting your breath.

Not only that, Wut, but you are trying to take a leadership role from a seemingly weak position; have you looked at how many MSG users are ignoring you?

Check my signature ;)

velocicarpo

« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 19:44 »
0
You got my support...

wut

« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 19:55 »
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You got my support...

Great, tnx, I hope for many more.

That being said, Warren Price said I'm trying to take a leadership role. I'm really not, I've just come up with the idea, just an outline plan. Whoever can be a leader, though I think there's no need for one, since all we have to do is to determine which agencies we have to show what the time is (and why). Everyone than just pulls his/her port, or leaves 1 photo so if things change we can than easily upload and get higher royalties. We just have to do it in large enough number to make a difference, that's all there's to it. Otherwise we're actually just depriving ourselves for that few percent, for nothing. Well we would feel better about ourselves anyway, wouldn't we ;)

WarrenPrice

« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 20:09 »
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Don't get me wrong, Wut; I respect your initiative.  But, how many times have we already been thru this scenario?  Several for sure.  We just make a lot of noise then go back to sleep.   ::)

And, I can not offer any support.  I deleted my 123rf portfolio in December 2010.

« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 20:15 »
0
There's two types of readers here: Those that do it for business and those that do it for fun.

No disrespect but as I told you in your thread about 123RF I make my own decisions on whether I upload or stick with an agency and everyone else that does this as a business will most probably do exactly the same.

Some people here do it for fun and are happy to get $10 a year from an agency.

If you're looking to start a revolution I think you're wasting your breath.

of course we all make our decisions from the shooting to the upload, not a question there.. but no matter how big you are you need to be concerned about agencies moves, sure you can be doing insanely good in all agencies for years and years but you dont know what will happen tomorrow (IS drop and FT emerals per example)

the "union" is a very hard idea as we all know and for sure will never happen but it would be nice to have some respect from agencies :)

helix7

« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2012, 20:33 »
0

You're assuming that the top, mid, and low tier agencies are the same for everyone. What you might consider a low earner, I might consider a high earner. So why should I sacrifice a high earner for your campaign against low percentages?

I make a few hundred bucks per month at an agency that isn't even on that list at right (no, I'm not telling anyone which agency, don't ask). But to you, they'd be a low tier agency, not worth the time. Some people do well at 123RF, some (like me) make hardly anything there. Barely enough money to put gas in the car each month. I could drop 123RF without it making much difference in my life, but for someone else that would be a huge loss. You're asking people to make cuts that you feel are appropriate based on your own personal experience and opinion about specific agencies. Kinda selfish, no?

« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2012, 20:38 »
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I make a few hundred bucks per month at an agency that isn't even on that list at right (no, I'm not telling anyone which agency, don't ask)

come on  ;D ;D vectors?

ruxpriencdiam

  • Location. Third stone from the sun
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2012, 20:56 »
0
You cant hurt the agency because they will be able to survive from all the new people they pick up just like any business will.

They dont care if you walk off or not because they will find someone else to do your job and pay them even less which they will be happy with.

« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2012, 21:01 »
0
I won't be leaving, as I sell well at 123RF and I won't be seeing a cut.  

But I actually agree with the sentiment of the original post here, as well as replies who say everyone must make his/her own decision.

If a partner changed the terms of a deal on me, I would have every right to leave.  If I feel I'm being negatively impacted, I would say so, and if I end up being ignored, I would leave.  I would be a fool not to.  

We all should respect every individual's right to make decisions in his or her best interest.  If I were in the shoes of someone upset at the new terms, I would want to leave.  And if you were in my shoes, retaining your rate or even seeing a possible increase, you would want to stay.

The thing I have a hard time respecting is whining.  Or a victim mentality... taking abuse and sticking around for more.  By all means, make noise and try to get the other party to see your side, but if that ultimately doesn't work, you have to make a decision and live with it.  You're no one's slave.

« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2012, 21:09 »
0
There's two types of readers here: Those that do it for business and those that do it for fun.

No disrespect but as I told you in your thread about 123RF I make my own decisions on whether I upload or stick with an agency and everyone else that does this as a business will most probably do exactly the same.

Some people here do it for fun and are happy to get $10 a year from an agency.

If you're looking to start a revolution I think you're wasting your breath.

You are right in your initial suggestion however it is 'those who do it for business' who probably generate 90%+ of the sales and without whom no agency could grow. Therefore, at least in theory, they should hold the power if only they could stick together. Unfortunately many of them just scatter their work everywhere and anywhere that asks them to, probably for a handful of change. Personally I didn't like 123's attitude from the start and so have never bothered with them.

« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2012, 21:27 »
0
Not only that, Wut, but you are trying to take a leadership role from a seemingly weak position; have you looked at how many MSG users are ignoring you?

I wouldn't take notice of 'Ignores'! Even SJL has 18 of them and yet there is no more knowledgeable or helpful a guy in microstock. That's 18 complete muppets for you __ absolutely no reflection whatsoever of the poster or the quality of his advice. No-one commands more respect on the IS forum either.

« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2012, 21:36 »
0
Not only that, Wut, but you are trying to take a leadership role from a seemingly weak position; have you looked at how many MSG users are ignoring you?

I wouldn't take notice of 'Ignores'! Even SJL has 18 of them and yet there is no more knowledgeable or helpful a guy in microstock. That's 18 complete muppets for you __ absolutely no reflection whatsoever of the poster or the quality of his advice. No-one commands more respect on the IS forum either.

Locke's comments are hard to decipher.  Sometimes his posts sound like they come a European's perspective, sometimes he's a blimey, other times he's serious and other times he us a crutch and he blends the well into confusion for those who don't know anything about him.   Therein lies the SL Zone.

« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2012, 21:52 »
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Locke's comments are hard to decipher.  Sometimes his posts sound like they come a European's perspective, sometimes he's a blimey, other times he's serious and other times he us a crutch and he blends the well into confusion for those who don't know anything about him.   Therein lies the SL Zone.

I think it is much simpler than that. An element of green-eye coupled with not being able to accept the truth/reality about the issues.


WarrenPrice

« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2012, 22:12 »
0
Not only that, Wut, but you are trying to take a leadership role from a seemingly weak position; have you looked at how many MSG users are ignoring you?

I wouldn't take notice of 'Ignores'! Even SJL has 18 of them and yet there is no more knowledgeable or helpful a guy in microstock. That's 18 complete muppets for you __ absolutely no reflection whatsoever of the poster or the quality of his advice. No-one commands more respect on the IS forum either.

I stand by my comment, Gostwyck.  I don't see any organized effort; more like total chaos.  
I repeat ... we've been here many times before. It is going to take a much more respected profile than Wut to "organize" any beneficial protest.
Are you up to it?

Uh Oh... you also have more ignores than me.   :P  ;D
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 22:14 by WarrenPrice »

« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2012, 22:37 »
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We all should respect every individual's right to make decisions in his or her best interest.  If I were in the shoes of someone upset at the new terms, I would want to leave.  And if you were in my shoes, retaining your rate or even seeing a possible increase, you would want to stay.

sounds to me like, I will score more money $$$

lagereek

« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2012, 02:23 »
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Wut!

Take no notice!  to be ignored by the ignoramus, is a blessing, yes, they have done you a favour because in a forum like this,  thats exactly the kind of faint hearted pussys you dont want in your posts and threads anyway,  they are wastes of space, thats all, hangers-ons and the first ones to jump on gravy-trains in arguments.

Ive had some epic shoot-outs with old members here, calling each other for everything under the sun, BUT!  we sort of kiss and make up, we dont ignore each other, why?  because were professionals and thereby can take the heat. simple as that.

There is nothing wrong with taking a leader role, it means you got balls!  so be my guest and you carry on writing and posting whatever you want and take no notice of the small fries.

best.

lagereek

« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2012, 05:28 »
0
Not only that, Wut, but you are trying to take a leadership role from a seemingly weak position; have you looked at how many MSG users are ignoring you?

I wouldn't take notice of 'Ignores'! Even SJL has 18 of them and yet there is no more knowledgeable or helpful a guy in microstock. That's 18 complete muppets for you __ absolutely no reflection whatsoever of the poster or the quality of his advice. No-one commands more respect on the IS forum either.

Locke's comments are hard to decipher.  Sometimes his posts sound like they come a European's perspective, sometimes he's a blimey, other times he's serious and other times he us a crutch and he blends the well into confusion for those who don't know anything about him.   Therein lies the SL Zone.

Few years back, I was absoloutely sure he was a Scotsman. He very politely told me, he wasnt. Its the way he writes sometimes. :)

wut

« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2012, 05:47 »
0
I won't be leaving, as I sell well at 123RF and I won't be seeing a cut.  

But I actually agree with the sentiment of the original post here, as well as replies who say everyone must make his/her own decision.

If a partner changed the terms of a deal on me, I would have every right to leave.  If I feel I'm being negatively impacted, I would say so, and if I end up being ignored, I would leave.  I would be a fool not to.  

We all should respect every individual's right to make decisions in his or her best interest.  If I were in the shoes of someone upset at the new terms, I would want to leave.  And if you were in my shoes, retaining your rate or even seeing a possible increase, you would want to stay.

The thing I have a hard time respecting is whining.  Or a victim mentality... taking abuse and sticking around for more.  By all means, make noise and try to get the other party to see your side, but if that ultimately doesn't work, you have to make a decision and live with it.  You're no one's slave.

What a great post, so well put! Great perspective on things. I'd also say it's about dignity and self respect as an extension to the slave analogy that I completely agree with. There's a better expression for the behaviour that would also be needed, if not for "this cause of ours" (la cosa nostra haha), for your own good in life (even if you go down, you go down with dignity), but I don't know how it's said in English, the closest would be, I guess, to hold your head up (high).

wut

« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2012, 05:49 »
0
There's two types of readers here: Those that do it for business and those that do it for fun.

No disrespect but as I told you in your thread about 123RF I make my own decisions on whether I upload or stick with an agency and everyone else that does this as a business will most probably do exactly the same.

Some people here do it for fun and are happy to get $10 a year from an agency.

If you're looking to start a revolution I think you're wasting your breath.

You are right in your initial suggestion however it is 'those who do it for business' who probably generate 90%+ of the sales and without whom no agency could grow. Therefore, at least in theory, they should hold the power if only they could stick together. Unfortunately many of them just scatter their work everywhere and anywhere that asks them to, probably for a handful of change. Personally I didn't like 123's attitude from the start and so have never bothered with them.

Indeed, but the point is to get as much of those, as well as small fish (it can't hurt, right) together in this thread and make a group move.

wut

« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2012, 06:15 »
0
Wut!

Take no notice!  to be ignored by the ignoramus, is a blessing, yes, they have done you a favour because in a forum like this,  thats exactly the kind of faint hearted pussys you dont want in your posts and threads anyway,  they are wastes of space, thats all, hangers-ons and the first ones to jump on gravy-trains in arguments.

Ive had some epic shoot-outs with old members here, calling each other for everything under the sun, BUT!  we sort of kiss and make up, we dont ignore each other, why?  because were professionals and thereby can take the heat. simple as that.

There is nothing wrong with taking a leader role, it means you got balls!  so be my guest and you carry on writing and posting whatever you want and take no notice of the small fries.

best.

Lagereek!

I won't and I didn't, don't worry ;) . The text I've put in bold is pure gold and really the way I think about ppl, life and reality. I know I can be a bit too rebellious at times, I always hated authority (horrible bosses at least and I never put up with their crap, which always turned out to be good for me at the end, besides I felt good about myself), but everything is better than just bending over or even bending over with a tube of lube in your hand :)

Tnx for the support, I'll do my best to make an impact, to make something out of that. I hope and other big timers will be in when we'll need you to pull your ports. Perhaps you'll hold back on Glenfiddich for a while, but those few less glasses that you'll drink will sure taste better and in the long run you'll be able to afford so much of it you won't be able to drink it if you lived another 200 years :) (surely a joke since it really won't make any difference when it comes to Glenfiddich;)

wut

« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2012, 06:18 »
0

You're assuming that the top, mid, and low tier agencies are the same for everyone. What you might consider a low earner, I might consider a high earner. So why should I sacrifice a high earner for your campaign against low percentages?

I make a few hundred bucks per month at an agency that isn't even on that list at right (no, I'm not telling anyone which agency, don't ask). But to you, they'd be a low tier agency, not worth the time. Some people do well at 123RF, some (like me) make hardly anything there. Barely enough money to put gas in the car each month. I could drop 123RF without it making much difference in my life, but for someone else that would be a huge loss. You're asking people to make cuts that you feel are appropriate based on your own personal experience and opinion about specific agencies. Kinda selfish, no?

As I said, the point of this thread is to get together, make a list of agencies that are mistreating us and then even taking us for fools with spins and twisting of words as we've seen from Alex who works for 123RF, his explanations are basically a c/p of KKT's. And they both make me sick, one thing is to get the deal you singed up for changed, but if it gets topped with such manipulative posts, that are really just offending our intelligence (well for most of us:), than this really is what tipped me over the edge. OK to get back to the point, we should do it according to the list, though everyone can decide to pull his/her ports from the other sites, but the impact would of course only be felt at the site where enough of the content (not contributors) walked away. For a smaller site, with less content a relatively small number of files would be enough, while at 123RF with 12 mil+, the number would have to be pretty significant. But we'll never know unless we try. So how can this be selfish if I'm trying to do something that would be in everyone's best interest, even of those who won't cooperate, won't take the small sacrifice?

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