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Author Topic: We need competition to Stocksy!  (Read 22157 times)

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« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2014, 17:52 »
+7
Yes, actually, I make more at Stocksy than SS, and hundreds times more than the others.  :)


Tror

« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2014, 18:06 »
+2
Is stocksy a great agency?  Take away the elitist element, is it making more for contributors than those agencies that the rest of the great unwashed contribute to? (no sarcasm here, genuine question)...

I don't think that "making more" is the criteria that most folks around here use to judge an agency. At this point I think the bulk of the community can be satisfied with a company that can make some money for contributors, pay a decent percentage, and not be releasing products and deals that repeatedly attempt to undercut artists.

I certainly don't judge companies based solely on how much they make me. My favorite company right now isn't a huge earner, but it earns respectably. And it's not even on the poll. I know there are some people who deem Shutterstock to be the best company in the business because they earn the most there, but "the most" certainly isn't the criteria I use to decide who I prefer.

I fully agree. To me, SS is just a good selling site with very limited capacity.

Tror

« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2014, 18:17 »
+3
Regarding the USP and the content Paradigm of a possible alternative: I do not think of a clone or entering into the same style as Stocksy. There is sooo much more creative variety around! Nor do I worry that we would be able to find a definition of a sellable, successful style. Market is demanding it since some time. If you are long enough in the creative market or worked as an art director you can sense it all over. Surprisingly, only some sites can deliver. Actually, this is a part which requires patience and experise, but it is not the most difficult part. The difficult part is getting attention.

In the very beginning of Microstock, there was a huge stimulus to create good quality material. People had to learn it. Few could deliver. Even experienced people coming from Macro had their problems. With a decent shot you could make serious money. People got onto the track and learned, evolved, invested.

Now we have manymanymany good Artists, may it be illustrators or photographers or videographers or whatnot, who got the skills and equipment to deliver and they have to cut down their creativity. Mostly for stupid definitions of quality which may had been valid in 2005 when istock had to filter snaps, but have no reason to exists today anymore. Or for the incompetence of low paid inspectors of SS. Or because of the devaluation of any niche material which may not sell more then 10 times a month because subscription models castrate any niche market or genuine creativity on the long run.

On the other hand we have a horde of buyers who is looking for niche material or more creative elements without any success. Me included. You would not believe how simple subjects are not covered in the databases because artists are too much under pressure to create that material. And Clients are willing to pay for it and do it. Otherwise Stocksy people would not sell so well. (always taking into account the limited number of contributors, which is healthy)

The concept is proven as valid.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 18:22 by Tror »

Uncle Pete

« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2014, 15:57 »
+2
Tror I suggest you contact Dan, djpadavona  http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?action=profile;u=4488  who started WarmPictures an independent site. Ask him about selective members and running an independent agency.

As far as I could see, he started with only established people who had good records and images. Eventually he was forced to shut down because of limited returns, economics and time. His plan should have been a success the way I saw it.

No reviews, just well establish solid content? No reviews eliminates a big burden. If it's like Stocky, members approve new members.

Although I should disclose that Warmpicture did have sales and was profitable, albeit barely. It can be done, especially if someone with my lack of expertise was able to pull it off. The problem was going from break even, to worthwhile venture. I was putting more work into Warmpicture than I was into my day job, and it was not a lot of fun tracking all those sales and commissions for tax reporting. In order for me to have continued, Warmpicture needed to do more than just break even.

So you are completely correct. Everyone wanting near 100% royalties from a co-op is failing to consider that somebody (hopefully a team of somebodies) is going to be doing all of the work behind the scenes, for free. And who is paying for customer acquisition?


I'll repeat my personal view. I'd be happy to give the agency 20% and take 80% which is about the same as selling on consignment, what a manager takes for musicians and what a fair commission would be to an agency to keep it viable.

If you go coop there start to be all kinds of complications with who's bringing in the clients and the money, and why should the lift the heavy weight and others get paid for just being a member. In other words, no shares, just paid for DLs.

If the agency is run as a coop, the people who work the software and the site, could share in those profits. And with any integrity if they are making too much profit for the expenses (ha ha) lower the agency commissions.

I have a feeling that at 20% marketing, software and making it attractive to work behind the scenes managing, will eat up any profits pretty fast.

Can anyone establish what content SS was lacking with their 40 million images? Maybe some small use or individual need? I find it difficult to imagine some high demand subject or category would be neglected!  :)

« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2014, 17:00 »
0
Have you guys seen Coversplash: www.coversplash.com ?

Our stock agency rivals Stocksy. By subscribing, you earn 100% commission on all photos sold, both on personal domain and on licensing agency.

Other highlights include beautifully designed and mobile-responsive sites, a complete international e-commerce solution, an amazing print provider (CanvasPop), interest groups, and more.

Best,
PhotographyPlus.

Valo

« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2014, 17:25 »
0
Have you guys seen Coversplash: www.coversplash.com ?

Our stock agency rivals Stocksy. By subscribing, you earn 100% commission on all photos sold, both on personal domain and on licensing agency.

Other highlights include beautifully designed and mobile-responsive sites, a complete international e-commerce solution, an amazing print provider (CanvasPop), interest groups, and more.

Best,
PhotographyPlus.
Very interesting. I am going to check that out. Thanks for posting.  :)

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2014, 17:45 »
0

Tror

« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2014, 17:56 »
+3
Have you guys seen Coversplash: www.coversplash.com ?

Our stock agency rivals Stocksy. By subscribing, you earn 100% commission on all photos sold, both on personal domain and on licensing agency.

Other highlights include beautifully designed and mobile-responsive sites, a complete international e-commerce solution, an amazing print provider (CanvasPop), interest groups, and more.

Best,
PhotographyPlus.


Interesting. But looks more like a platform for individual photographers than an agency. 100% of commission means almost automatically that no marketing will be done from the agency side. I doubt it will go further that any of those other sites where you can create your own store.

Valo

« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2014, 17:57 »
0
Thank you Shady Sue  :( no IPTC

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2014, 18:16 »
0
Going to the home page just now, I couldn't see any search field.
(No watermarks is a far worse omission, IMO.)

« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2014, 21:20 »
0
100% of commission means almost automatically that no marketing will be done from the agency side.

No, we're partnering with several more established players early on.


We will be updating search and IPTC data soon.

stocked

« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2014, 03:19 »
+4
I always saw the co-op model as a role-model for many agencies to come...  But we need different niches, the niche of Stocksy is very narrow and already well covered by them but I could think of many other niches (content- local- style- culture- wise etc) which let more enough room for other agencies with a fair business model.

Tror

« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2014, 06:18 »
0
100% of commission means almost automatically that no marketing will be done from the agency side.

No, we're partnering with several more established players early on.


We will be updating search and IPTC data soon.

Thanks for the declaration. How do you make money?

Tror

« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2014, 06:19 »
+2
I always saw the co-op model as a role-model for many agencies to come...  But we need different niches, the niche of Stocksy is very narrow and already well covered by them but I could think of many other niches (content- local- style- culture- wise etc) which let more enough room for other agencies with a fair business model.

Yes, well said. The problematic part is that nobody seems to be willing to jump in as an active part. We would need the power of the community to start such a project. Symbiostock and DPC showed that it is possible. Lets do that now on a larger and more professional scale!

Valo

« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2014, 08:57 »
0
100% of commission means almost automatically that no marketing will be done from the agency side.

No, we're partnering with several more established players early on.


We will be updating search and IPTC data soon.


Thanks for the declaration. How do you make money?


The plans are on the website http://www.coversplash.com/

« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2014, 09:04 »
0
We make money when you upgrade for 7 dollars a month, to access the full-suite of features. It's a very simple business model.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2014, 09:28 »
0
We make money when you upgrade for 7 dollars a month, to access the full-suite of features. It's a very simple business model.
That's not a lot of money for marketing and promotion. Are members mostly expected to bring their own customers, like at FAA?


Tror

« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2014, 12:18 »
+1
Thanks for presenting your site, but I do not see how this is related to this thread. I see no COOP structure, no clear art direction, no agency appeal.

Please open your own thread for advertising your site instead of hijacking this one.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2014, 12:29 »
+1
Thanks for presenting your site, but I do not see how this is related to this thread. I see no COOP structure, no clear art direction, no agency appeal.

Please open your own thread for advertising your site instead of hijacking this one.

He has.

« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2014, 14:27 »
+3
Is stocksy a great agency?  Take away the elitist element, is it making more for contributors than those agencies that the rest of the great unwashed contribute to? (no sarcasm here, genuine question)


I see no evidence that the OP is not concerned with a USP - quite reasonable that this might take a bit of thought but a different USP is not the same as no USP.

No, stocksy is a very poor seller - and not just "personally for me". They posted numbers on site -of course labeling them great-and-whatever (kickass?)- trusting their audience not to bother or be able to do even a back-of-the-envelope calculation. I can and did. The numbers are poor, and of course confidential to stocksy members. I think stocksy is loaded with enthusiastic talented amateurs who are still in a hooray mode and just flattered by someone actually paying for their shot.

All this doesn't apply to you if are magically exempt from their hipster curation, able to upload usual stock images that are proven to be of the selling type :)

« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2014, 15:07 »
+1
Is stocksy a great agency?  Take away the elitist element, is it making more for contributors than those agencies that the rest of the great unwashed contribute to? (no sarcasm here, genuine question)


I see no evidence that the OP is not concerned with a USP - quite reasonable that this might take a bit of thought but a different USP is not the same as no USP.

No, stocksy is a very poor seller - and not just "personally for me". They posted numbers on site -of course labeling them great-and-whatever (kickass?)- trusting their audience not to bother or be able to do even a back-of-the-envelope calculation. I can and did. The numbers are poor, and of course confidential to stocksy members. I think stocksy is loaded with enthusiastic talented amateurs who are still in a hooray mode and just flattered by someone actually paying for their shot.

All this doesn't apply to you if are magically exempt from their hipster curation, able to upload usual stock images that are proven to be of the selling type :)

Well that is your experience, mine is different. Stocksy is a good earner for me and there are a lot of features beyond income I love about stocksy (contributor treatment, contributor community). But I guess for you I'd probably be just one of the "in-hooray-mode" amateurs.

Goofy

« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2014, 15:13 »
+6
Is stocksy a great agency?  Take away the elitist element, is it making more for contributors than those agencies that the rest of the great unwashed contribute to? (no sarcasm here, genuine question)


I see no evidence that the OP is not concerned with a USP - quite reasonable that this might take a bit of thought but a different USP is not the same as no USP.

I think stocksy is loaded with enthusiastic talented amateurs who are still in a hooray mode and just flattered by someone actually paying for their shot.

All this doesn't apply to you if are magically exempt from their hipster curation, able to upload usual stock images that are proven to be of the selling type :)

Some how I don't consider folks like Sean an enthusiastic talented amateur but that's just me  8)


« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2014, 15:33 »
+10
A photographer run coop would be great and I'm always open to fair trade agencies and am happy to join the discussion. However ...

Expecting 100% commission and for those who do the work behind the scenes to do it for free, in my experience, is not the way to go. I was involved with a start up agency hosted by a fellow photographer who I met through Photoshelter (during its brief honeymoon as an actual stock photography agency). As here, there were a group of us who'd gotten to know each other through the forum that this photographer hosted. Most of us were new to stock, though he had been licensing work on his own for years and had some publishing contacts.

It was to be a niche agency and he set up a beta site with ITPC intake, bulk uploading, a forum and left it to us to self curate which by and large people did a good job at. The site was up (though private) for a couple of years starting in late 2009/early 2010 as about 100 of us (in retrospect too small a number but we were grounded in the traditional RM stock agency paradigm) dutifully uploaded our photos. He and his wife did all the backroom stuff paid for the software and upgrades and stayed active in the forums. We discussed pricing models, licenses, etc and agreed to a mix of RM and RF non-exclusive stock and to pricing. The forum was far far less contentious than here, but moderators were still necessary. I forget what the goal was in terms of numbers before he was going to start marketing the site, but by the time we got close to the target the market had changed dramatically. Though we had agreed on just about everything, he realized that he'd never be able to compete with what was out there, and the project folded. Angry people who'd spent a lot of time for a dream, but most understood that life sometimes gives you lemons. 

Had there been a dedicated paid team behind the scenes, and had we been paying while the site was in beta, we might have hit our numbers sooner and perhaps jumped on the bandwagon while there was still room. So, I'm sure you can understand why I agree with those who say there needs to be a commission/salary for those doing the coding, the marketing, the curating, trying to get investors, etc. You can have the best photos in the world but if no one sees them, they won't get licensed. You need to sign up photographers who will share their enthusiasm with others and help you market - that's why, for example, all the micro sites have referral programs, it just makes good business sense.

When I consider that I license photos daily on SS despite the fact that my 200 photos make up just 0.00057% of their database, it tells me that they know how to market my images. There are many times I think that I should have 1,000 images on SS and 200 on the traditional agencies and not the other way around, but I hate the fact that they charge so little for my work and that I get such a small percentage. I know Walmart makes more than Neiman-Marcus - guess I'd still rather be the later.

I think Stocksy has a real chance because its founders understand the business side of things, and I assume that most of their photographers are not naive amateurs but rather come from the traditional side of things and don't expect to get rich overnight. They also have Bruce's millions and I'd assume there are investors as well.

If people think spending $120 for updates (via the symbiostock discussions) is too much, however, then I don't think they really have a concept of what it takes to run a successful co-op. I've spent a portion of my time over the past couple of years contacting potential stock photo buyers and have been licensing photos directly, as well as through those who discover my work on my website. I do mailings, pay $500 a year for a Pro site on Photoshelter (one of the best investments I've made), do research, and have tens of thousands of images on my hard drives that I'm keeping track of. It's a long-term investment of my time, and the momentum is starting to build. It's not going to happen overnight. Now multiply that by 100 people or 1000 and think how much you need to  do and to spend to market their work. The cost of hosting and writing the software is a drop in the bucket. You need a marketing team, a legal team, a sales team, an advertising budget, and I don't know what else and sites that have all that and major investors as well still don't make it. 

Sorry to go on but just some of my thoughts on the matter.

I'm sure the OP knows a lot of this and has given it a lot of thought before sending up a trial balloon. He's looking to gauge interest. None of this is rocket science, but it is hard work, time and money. If it was easy no one would be selling their work for pennies and watching the site owners make millions.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 15:44 by wordplanet »

MxR

« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2014, 18:11 »
+1
Competition? we need be IN stocksy, not versus... they are fair!

« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2014, 18:39 »
0
No, stocksy is a very poor seller - and not just "personally for me". They posted numbers on site -of course labeling them great-and-whatever (kickass?)- trusting their audience not to bother or be able to do even a back-of-the-envelope calculation. I can and did. The numbers are poor, and of course confidential to stocksy members. I think stocksy is loaded with enthusiastic talented amateurs who are still in a hooray mode and just flattered by someone actually paying for their shot.

All this doesn't apply to you if are magically exempt from their hipster curation, able to upload usual stock images that are proven to be of the selling type :)

Must be doing OK for some people. It seems to be at the top of the unranked sites every month (up there with Clipartof and self-hosted). I know it is a smaller voting group, so there is some bias. Still, some people are getting sales and voting for it every month.


 

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