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Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: archibald1221 on June 04, 2011, 11:34

Title: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: archibald1221 on June 04, 2011, 11:34
Hello,
Microstock sites are good way to earn money from design, but nowadays there's a lot of other alternative ways to do that. The mots pupular alternatives for microstock agencies i've found already discussed in this forum were:
Zazzle.com/Cafepress.com
Earning from design blog
Selling stock directly

But what about other ways and sites? For eample:
deviantart.com - way to sell your artworks
99designs.com - design marketplace
crowdspring.com - designer's competitions
brandstack.com - design marketplace
redbubble.com - sell canvas prints, t-shirts, other designs
spreadshirt.com - create and sell t-shirt's designs
threadless.com - sell t-shirt design

There are just several links. Are anyone working with these mentioned above or other similar agencies? Are You succesfull there? What are earnings there comparing with microstock agencies?  It would be great to hear some opinions :)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: sharpshot on June 04, 2011, 16:53
I've tried zazzle and redbubble.  Sold a few things but I don't think I can make as much money as I can with microstock and it's really hard finding the time required to get enough on these sites to make money.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Phil on June 04, 2011, 19:22
my wife does the redbubble and zazzle

redbubble - a really nice group of people, we spent a bit of time last night chatting to a guy about geckos :), the impression I get is you want to promote yourself, we have about 500 images on and entered heaps of 'challenges' and done well with them (they are just a featured / ego thing) and even had an image on the front page of redbubble. So we like the site...but we have zero sales (and giving up on it), speaking to the gecko guy he's had one sale of $0.49. He said (so 3rd hand ;)) that knows a couple of people with daily sales, doing stuff like play on words of car companies, doing stuff for world cup etc. So my thinking is, good if you do very commercial stuff but not if you are just trying to sell nature / wildlife photos.

zazzle - sales tick along, mostly postcards and cards - my wife created a calendar last night and it got featured on todays best http://www.zazzle.com/space_calender_2011_calendar-158436813333424557 (http://www.zazzle.com/space_calender_2011_calendar-158436813333424557) hopefully it will get some sales :)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: oboy on June 04, 2011, 23:27
It is difficult to make a lot of money with Imagekind, RedBubble, ArtistRising. You have to promote your own stuff.

With Zazzle and Cafepress you can make good money. I don't like Cafepress that much, because you have to get a paid account in order to make real money with them. The free account is not good enough for it. So I focus more on Zazzle. Yes it is very time consuming, but you will see a return. Yes it works better if you drive traffic to your store, but you can do this with blog and list and ... You don't really need any paid advertisements.

Sorry can't really say anything to the others.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Black Sheep on June 05, 2011, 02:10
They're all rubbish for the simple reason they don't spend in advertising and they expect YOU advertise for them on social networks and blogs for free.

Amazon might be the only decent alternative but it's limited and not easy to sell there.

As for fine-art it's a similar depressing situation, FineArtAmerica has some sales but i'm afraid they're mainly dealing with artists and their friends printing and buying their own stuff for vanity !
The guys running FAA are a bunch of complete assholes and they don't even print or frame everything as it's all outsourced to a third party company ... their forum is a joke to say the least, plenty of buffouns and hello kitties writing there.

redbubble and zazzle look good but where are the sales ?

case in point, i'm making a few calendars with my stock photos, and still wondering how to sell them as the options above look like just a waste of time even reading their enthusiastic forums.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: john_woodcock on June 05, 2011, 07:39
Quote
my wife created a calendar last night
It looks good but $23? That's pretty expensive.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: stockastic on June 05, 2011, 10:26
I wasted a lot of time creating what I thought were cool things on Zazzle and then realized they were all way too expensive - I'd be embarassed even to tell my friends about them.   And the only way you'll get any sales is by self-promotion.   
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Freedom on June 05, 2011, 12:24
Never sold anything at Zazzle and don't go there to waste time anymore. Maybe because I am not a designer.

Never sold anything at Redrubble either but it was a few years ago. All my images were deleted.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: archibald1221 on June 05, 2011, 15:31
Well, these replies doesn't seem very encouraging :) It's strange that many of You are dissapointed with Zazzle and Redbubble - because i've read many success stories about it. Well, maybe not all of them are true :) And as i understand, other similar sites aren't gainful either? I guess i'll have to keep looking for other alternative ways to earn from design, because i'm not happy with my microstock earnings yet :)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: stockastic on June 05, 2011, 20:10
I'm not an expert on Zazzle.   From what I've read, you can make some money if you grind out zillions of 'products' from images of cute babies and cats, pretty sunsets, sports themes etc.  or if you can get in front of a big event or trend with related imagery and slogans.   Otherwise it's just one more giant haystack in which to put a few needles.

 
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Black Sheep on June 05, 2011, 22:07
Well, these replies doesn't seem very encouraging :) It's strange that many of You are dissapointed with Zazzle and Redbubble - because i've read many success stories about it. Well, maybe not all of them are true :) And as i understand, other similar sites aren't gainful either? I guess i'll have to keep looking for other alternative ways to earn from design, because i'm not happy with my microstock earnings yet :)

judge by yourself looking at the recent sales on redbubble, they had a page for that.
last time i checked if was mostly made of cats, dogs, sunsets and other crap.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on June 05, 2011, 22:15
@archibald I've heard of plenty of people making a living in microstock, but I've never heard of anyone making a living with the sites you mentioned. I'm sure there are a few who can manage to make a living with things like zazzle, but I highly doubt anyone can make a living participating in crowdsourced design contests.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Black Sheep on June 05, 2011, 22:36
@archibald I've heard of plenty of people making a living in microstock, but I've never heard of anyone making a living with the sites you mentioned. I'm sure there are a few who can manage to make a living with things like zazzle, but I highly doubt anyone can make a living participating in crowdsourced design contests.

you could make a living with these POD sites but they simply DONT advertise and don't bring customers in.
as a matter of fact their whole business is luring contributors in and wait for them to bring buyers (friends etc), same s-h-it
wth FineArtAmerica and many more who also demand a 12-months fee.

AllPosters is a real agency instead, but of course they don't allow anybody in unless recommended by one of their partners.
If you join LonelyPlanetImages they also resell some photos via AllPosters but you've no control about it.

And at the end of the game the prices for the stuff sold in these sites are just too high in my opinion.
I think you can seriously make more money selling them by yourself on eBay or similar.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: sharpshot on June 06, 2011, 03:43
Wouldn't big sites like Zazzle make more money by advertising?  It would also encourage more of us to sell more stuff there.  I can understand the small sites not spending money on advertising but Zazzle is huge.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Black Sheep on June 06, 2011, 04:24
Wouldn't big sites like Zazzle make more money by advertising?  It would also encourage more of us to sell more stuff there.  I can understand the small sites not spending money on advertising but Zazzle is huge.

no, they expect YOU to make free advertising for them, that's the whole idea behing most of the POD sites.

besides, they also get further free adertising by their affiliates too.

you can also count sites like Etsy on this and on top of this they ask for a monthly fee.

so all in all it looks like a it's a ripoff apart rare cases.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: stockastic on June 06, 2011, 10:04
Seems like there's a consensus here, that the problem with Zazzle is the prices.   I have some cool coffee cup designs, and some ability to promote them myself, but $15 for a cup is a non-starter.

   

 
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Black Sheep on June 06, 2011, 10:38
Seems like there's a consensus here, that the problem with Zazzle is the prices.   I have some cool coffee cup designs, and some ability to promote them myself, but $15 for a cup is a non-starter.

   

 

yeah i think they target "vanity buyers" who are willing to spend a lot for hard to find items.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: stockastic on June 06, 2011, 11:11
Zazzle doesn't advertise or promote your products and their prices pretty much ensure you're wasting your time.  They do provide graphical tools for placing your images on products, and they'll produce a product at "quantity one" on demand, and ship it.  That's all they do.  I keyworded everything, made a nice looking store and never got a single page view.   

I (my wife actually) bought one of my cups and one of my bags, as gifts - and I was very pleased with the print quality.  If I could find ashop to do the same thing for a few dollars per item in small quantities, I could make some sales by word of mouth, at craft sales, 'art fairs' and so on.  Haven't found such a place yet. 
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: oboy on June 06, 2011, 11:17
I have seen advertisements for Zazzle in magazines, websites, and billboards before. They do advertisements. There was also a documentary/report about them on TV not to long ago.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: stockastic on June 06, 2011, 11:26
Zazzle advertises Zazzle.  They offer no way to promote your store or products specifically. There's a pathetic, totally inadequate set of 'cateogories' to waste your time with.    Basically they're just too big and unfocused - like I said they're a giant haystack and you're a needle.   It would all make sense if the prices were about 1/2 to 2/3 of what they are.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: TheSmilingAssassin on June 06, 2011, 12:03
The prices on Zazzle aren't too expensive.  There are a lot of people that would pay those prices.  There's a lot of crap on there that should be scrapped and not worth a dollar but good design and artwork are worth their value usually.

I sell microstock, zazzle and 99designs.  I love zazzle and recently got back into 99designs.  I was wondering if I should give you guys this feedback because I would hate for you all to sign up and make it harder for buyers to find my products but let me put things in perspective for you.

I'm new at this game... have only been in it for just over a year.  I have a tiny portfolio... about 89 images and I use these to make my zazzle products.  Sometimes I make Zazzle products and end up with artwork for microstock that I would never have thought of.  I design on 99designs and have won 3 contests in 4 days.  I get a lot more out of it than just prize money, I get ideas, I get a bigger understanding of design, I get inspiration, I learn new skills hanging around top designers and anything that loses leaves me artwork I can pop onto Zazzle and microstock.  I'm smart about it.  I avoid logo designs where I can (unless it includes a useful icon) and only enter comps where I can reuse the image or part of the image elsewhere.  I'm also in the process of creating a logo for someone who contacted me yesterday via Zazzle to create a logo for them similar to an image on my business cards.

Here's a breakdown of last May's paycheck:

Microstock:    $134.46
Zazzle:          $347.82
99 designs:    $410.00

I love Zazzle.  I hope none of you join!  I also love 99designs so please stay away from there too :)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Pixart on June 06, 2011, 12:09
Has anyone approached clubs/schools/teams?    The major feature of Zazzle etc. is NO MINIMUMS.  Usually a team has to order at least 12 screenprinted items.  If you make your own catalogue you could work out a fundraising project with a football club or dance team and you make your commission, they take their markup and they have an incredible selection to choose from.  Instead of kids getting one boring white t - they might order one pink tank, one hoodie, 3 red t's for the family.  My daughter's school always orders black, but somehow I gave birth to a princess and a princess wouldn't be caught dead in black.  If they had pink or purple t's, she would convince me to buy several.

Charge them a flat fee to set a store up in their name.

Yes, it's a different way to approach things and maybe too much work when one is used to the crowd sourcing idea - but I do think "no minimums" is very attractive here.  I'm guessing that a dance school would give you permission to use their logo for say a 12 month period, open a store in their name - or if a fundraiser they send out a (fundraising) catalogue and set their own markup.  A group order also cuts the price of shipping for each individual.  Yes, they could do all this themselves, but they don't need to know how easy it is :)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: gwhitton on June 06, 2011, 12:52
Quote from:
 link=topic=13505.msg204045#msg204045 date=1307379794
The prices on Zazzle aren't too expensive.  There are a lot of people that would pay those prices.  There's a lot of crap on there that should be scrapped and not worth a dollar but good design and artwork are worth their value usually.

I sell microstock, zazzle and 99designs.  I love zazzle and recently got back into 99designs.  I was wondering if I should give you guys this feedback because I would hate for you all to sign up and make it harder for buyers to find my products but let me put things in perspective for you.

I'm new at this game... have only been in it for just over a year.  I have a tiny portfolio... about 89 images and I use these to make my zazzle products.  Sometimes I make Zazzle products and end up with artwork for microstock that I would never have thought of.  I design on 99designs and have won 3 contests in 4 days.  I get a lot more out of it than just prize money, I get ideas, I get a bigger understanding of design, I get inspiration, I learn new skills hanging around top designers and anything that loses leaves me artwork I can pop onto Zazzle and microstock.  I'm smart about it.  I avoid logo designs where I can (unless it includes a useful icon) and only enter comps where I can reuse the image or part of the image elsewhere.  I'm also in the process of creating a logo for someone who contacted me yesterday via Zazzle to create a logo for them similar to an image on my business cards.

Here's a breakdown of last May's paycheck:

Microstock:    $134.46
Zazzle:          $347.82
99 designs:    $410.00

I love Zazzle.  I hope none of you join!  I also love 99designs so please stay away from there too :)

Based on my experience, I would have to agree with Pseudonymous. While I make nowhere near what he/she does...there is definitely money to be made on Zazzle for those, who are smart, creative and like to work hard. Their prices are expensive, I agree wholeheartedly, but I have seen folks drop hundreds of dollars on products I've created, and I also get regular sales there...though more on the small side then the large.

Those who make a living on Zazzle, are the same ones who make it on the Micros. If you offer something really unique that matches up with what people want to buy you are going to make a sale. If you know how to really promote yourself, you are going to make even more.

For my part I treat Zazzle, like I do all the other sites, another outlet to sell the photos I produce. Once I put my designs, which there are about 1500 of, I don't have to think about them anymore. Yet despite this I haven't touched the site in several months, but the sales continue to march on. Have I paid for all my efforts, probably not, but unless the sale dry up unexpectedly, eventually I should. The same could be said for the micros.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: lisafx on June 06, 2011, 15:20

Here's a breakdown of last May's paycheck:

Microstock:    $134.46
Zazzle:          $347.82
99 designs:    $410.00

I love Zazzle.  I hope none of you join!  I also love 99designs so please stay away from there too :)

All very good info Pseudonymous.  Congrats on your success at Zazzle! 

If I may say so, I think your portfolio, with lots of vivid, eye-catching vectors,  is ideally suited to the medium.  I don't know if, for example, my people heavy photography port would work.  Wish I had the artistic talent to produce illustrations, like some of you can.  I would probably give it a try in that case.

But either way, I appreciate your sharing the information. 
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: TheSmilingAssassin on June 06, 2011, 19:33
Thanks Lisa, but I don't agree that my images are more suited to that medium more than anyone elses.  If anything my images are suited to the products I create on Zazzle but looking at your brilliant portfolio, I see $$$ signs on Zazzle because there's a lot of photography used on products as well... for instance take graduation invitations as an example.  Take a pretty girl wearing the graduation gown, sporting a pretty smile, throw a background behind her, a border around her and you have a nice invitation or flyer.  I'm limited on Zazzle because I don't do photography.  I'm also limited on 99designs because of it.  If I did photography, I would probably steer away from icon designs and illustrations and work more on web design, packaging, book covers etc., which by the way, pay a lot more.

Looking quickly at the first three pages of your port, your isolated bird can go on an exotic pet business card.  Santa on a christmas card.  Apply a filter to him and make him look 'cartoony', pop a Christmas backround behind him and you have all sorts of Christmas products.  Put him on a t-shirt or a mug with a funny caption, on buttons, stickers etc.  Put him on Christmas sale flyers offering discounts for a limited time.   The margarita (yum by the way!) on a cocktail bar business card and on a bachelorette invitation or card.  The jack-o-lantern can go on all sorts of Halloween products.  I would have a field day with your port.  Even the people isolations, you could do lots with them either as is on a background, or if you processed them, traced them and created cartoons from them, you could do all sorts of things.  Looking at your isolated plumber, I just did a google search for "plumber" on 99designs.com

"plumber site:99designs.com"

Take this contest for example:

http://99designs.com/web-design/contests/air-conditioning-heating-company-website-design-76937 (http://99designs.com/web-design/contests/air-conditioning-heating-company-website-design-76937)

If you learned web design, you could easily create these sorts of documents using your plumber in your port.  The bonus of using your own stuff is that the contest holder doesn't have to purchase a separate licence for the images that other designers use and you can use that as a selling point... especially when it comes to print designs.  

Trust me, I hadn't looked at a graphics design program before a year ago.  I was an artist, painting on canvas and this computer generated stuff was all new to me.  Anyone can pick it up, you just need a good eye and a bit of determination, which obviously you have.  Look at you now, you've got your own website selling your own images.  A year ago, I remember you saying you had no clue about doing something like that.  Microstock is going down the gurgler.  Agents are making more money but contributors are making bananas.  In the future it will be difficult earning a living out of it.  We'll have to work much harder just get the the same amount and lets face it, people got into microstock so they don't have to work that hard.  That's what attracted us in the beginning, right?   Instead of becoming a slave to the agents, we need to pick up some new skills and make the money we're going to lose elsewhere... that's what I reckon anyway.

I don't look at Zazzle or 99 designs as alternatives to microstock.  To me, they all marry in and complement each other.  One feeds the other.  It's probably because I have a management accounting background and I'm always looking at detail and how I can maximise the profits on an image, or what images I need to add to my portfolio to maximise profits overall.  

I know time's a big factor, but the way I see it with you is that your massive port is so established that you could quite easily walk away from microstock for a couple of weeks here and there.  The money will still come in whether you're counting it or not.  I would check out some of the contests on 99designs and even if you don't participate, they give you great ideas for new images that you would never think about.  For me, being on Zazzle and 99designs, it makes me look at the industry from every angle.  They make me see things from a company's point of view, a designer's point of view and from an average consumer's point of view.  

Sorry about the long post :)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Black Sheep on June 06, 2011, 20:51
Once I put my designs, which there are about 1500 of, I don't have to think about them anymore. Yet despite this I haven't touched the site in several months, but the sales continue to march on. Have I paid for all my efforts, probably not, but unless the sale dry up unexpectedly, eventually I should. The same could be said for the micros.

hmm .. so with 1500 designs on sale you make less than 300$/month ?
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on June 06, 2011, 21:26
I have half of that on IS and I never went over 100$ so 300$ ainīt bad :P
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Karimala on June 06, 2011, 23:27
Sorry about the long post :)

Thank you for the long post!   ;D  I've just been inspired.  It never occurred to me that we photographers could cartoonize our existing photos for a Zazzle store.  That's an awesome idea!!! 
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: basti on June 07, 2011, 02:14
I see one huge problem with all micros, Zazzle, Cafepress etc. - they expect US to advertise. Even microstock gets huge revenue from free links and advertisement of its contributors, they provide "great tools" to promote not "your portfolio" but them.

I expect agency which gets 70-80% from my sale to do advertising on their behalf. Same with Zazzle, Cafepress, FAA - why . would I join them, pay them comission or store maintanance fee and then do ALL advertising myself? I can build my own website which is much much easily developed regarding SEO and it will be great place for my customers and Im safe about suddently changed fees, policies, webdesign and other nasty things. Im such case, I would definitely rather invest a little more to set up my own business rather then doing this.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: sharpshot on June 07, 2011, 02:53
^^^Do you know anyone that makes more from their own site than they do from the top microstock sites?  If we all get our own site, are buyers going to sign up and look through thousands of different sites?

I'm waiting for someone to come up with a central search and payment system, so we can all have our own sites but the buyers only need to join once and can pay for anything they like.  There will also have to be some way of removing images that shouldn't be sold as stock.  I'm sure it's possible to do this but at the moment I'm not going to spend time and money on my own site when I don't think it will earn me much.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: TheSmilingAssassin on June 07, 2011, 03:42
Sorry about the long post :)

Thank you for the long post!   ;D  I've just been inspired.  It never occurred to me that we photographers could cartoonize our existing photos for a Zazzle store.  That's an awesome idea!!! 

Glad you found it useful :)


I see one huge problem with all micros, Zazzle, Cafepress etc. - they expect US to advertise. Even microstock gets huge revenue from free links and advertisement of its contributors, they provide "great tools" to promote not "your portfolio" but them.


I don't see a problem with advertising.  Why would you need to push yourself to promote yourself?  You get referrals from microstock.  Zazzle pays you an extra 15% if you land a sale from one of your refering links.  It takes time building good inlinks but once they're there, they're there.  Socialise with others as well, promote their work and you get 15%.  They'll get 15% from promoting yours. 

Quote
Im such case, I would definitely rather invest a little more to set up my own business rather then doing this.

Why don't you then?  Is it because you know that it takes big money and time to advertise?  Zazzle and the micros are well established and you get the benefit of their SEO.  If you really thought setting up your own business printing on t-shirts, mugs, business cards or whatever, and advertising on your own was a better alternative, microstock agents and POD sites would not exist.


I'm waiting for someone to come up with a central search and payment system, so we can all have our own sites but the buyers only need to join once and can pay for anything they like.

You mean like a microstock agent?  ;D

Who's going to go through the trouble of doing all that without wanting something in return?  Even if they start off building something like that out of the goodness of their hearts and dipping into their own pocket to finance it, how long do you think before they smarten up and start charging for it?  It will never happen.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: sharpshot on June 07, 2011, 04:03
^^^I can't remember how many billions this industry is worth each year.  I'm sure someone will be come up with a better way for us to sell and buy images for a slice of that money.  I didn't say they would do all this for free, I just think the amount we pay the current sites is far too high and one day that's going to change.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Black Sheep on June 07, 2011, 04:09
^^^Do you know anyone that makes more from their own site than they do from the top microstock sites?  If we all get our own site, are buyers going to sign up and look through thousands of different sites?


NO, unless you sell some hard to find or unique photos and you also contact buyers willing to pay for it.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Black Sheep on June 07, 2011, 04:31
^^^I can't remember how many billions this industry is worth each year.  I'm sure someone will be come up with a better way for us to sell and buy images for a slice of that money.  I didn't say they would do all this for free, I just think the amount we pay the current sites is far too high and one day that's going to change.

it's not gonna happen.

think for instance .. woudn't it be logic that someone starts a business providing uploading, editing,and keywording for stock shooters ?
well, many tried and fail so far, it seems there's just no money on it even running this biz in india or bangladesh.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on June 07, 2011, 09:22
it's not gonna happen.

think for instance .. woudn't it be logic that someone starts a business providing uploading, editing,and keywording for stock shooters ?
well, many tried and fail so far, it seems there's just no money on it even running this biz in india or bangladesh.

It's not likely to happen, but it could. There are enough holes in just about every microstock company business model that we can all imagine a more ideal agency. Ideal for artists and customers. Hell, I've thought about doing it myself. Assembling a team, getting funding, setting up a HQ, etc. It just doesn't suit my personal life right now. I'm enjoying being a work-from-home-dad and I'm not about to change that. But believe me, I've got an idea in my head for what the perfect stock agency would look like and how it would operate, and I think it would kick the crap out of every microstock business currently in the market.

It's not hard to imagine. A solid site, bug-free (unlike istock), simpler search functions, simple pricing (NO collections and varying pricing tiers), support for modern formats (no more EPS8), 40% royalty rate, etc.

The hard part is having the time and the balls to do it. It wouldn't be easy. And it would take some serious start-up money. You'd need a savvy business partner who can navigate the VC world and help secure funding. It would take a serious investment in systems, hardware, office space, and a crew of reviewers and IT folks to at least build the system, and then support it. Then sales and customer service personnel to handle customers and accounts. It's a company. It would need to be started like any other web startup. But it could be done. And there's sure as hell money to be made. There's a good reason why the StockFresh team got back into the business after selling StockXpert. They know there's still good money here.

It wouldn't come from within the microstock community, but I think it would need some inside info to be successful. Maybe a web-savvy entrepreneur partnering up with a microstock industry veteran. Like Kevin Rose partnering up with Yuri Arcurs to start a company. Imagine that... :)

It's crazy, I know. But if I can picture something better than what's currently out there, I'm sure there are people with the knowledge, resources, and connections to actually imagine it and build it. I think it will happen. istock is far from perfect. So is SS, FT, DT, all of them. They all are flawed, in many ways. The door is wide open for someone to step in and do it better.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: lisafx on June 07, 2011, 09:34
Thanks Lisa, but I don't agree that my images are more suited to that medium more than anyone elses.  If anything my images are suited to the products I create on Zazzle but looking at your brilliant portfolio, I see $$$ signs on Zazzle because there's a lot of photography used on products as well... for instance take graduation invitations as an example.  Take a pretty girl wearing the graduation gown, sporting a pretty smile, throw a background behind her, a border around her and you have a nice invitation or flyer.  I'm limited on Zazzle because I don't do photography.  I'm also limited on 99designs because of it.  If I did photography, I would probably steer away from icon designs and illustrations and work more on web design, packaging, book covers etc., which by the way, pay a lot more.

Looking quickly at the first three pages of your port, your isolated bird can go on an exotic pet business card.  Santa on a christmas card.  Apply a filter to him and make him look 'cartoony', pop a Christmas backround behind him and you have all sorts of Christmas products.  Put him on a t-shirt or a mug with a funny caption, on buttons, stickers etc.  Put him on Christmas sale flyers offering discounts for a limited time.   The margarita (yum by the way!) on a cocktail bar business card and on a bachelorette invitation or card.  The jack-o-lantern can go on all sorts of Halloween products.  I would have a field day with your port.  Even the people isolations, you could do lots with them either as is on a background, or if you processed them, traced them and created cartoons from them, you could do all sorts of things.  Looking at your isolated plumber, I just did a google search for "plumber" on 99designs.com

"plumber site:99designs.com"

Take this contest for example:

[url]http://99designs.com/web-design/contests/air-conditioning-heating-company-website-design-76937[/url] ([url]http://99designs.com/web-design/contests/air-conditioning-heating-company-website-design-76937[/url])

If you learned web design, you could easily create these sorts of documents using your plumber in your port.  The bonus of using your own stuff is that the contest holder doesn't have to purchase a separate licence for the images that other designers use and you can use that as a selling point... especially when it comes to print designs. 

Trust me, I hadn't looked at a graphics design program before a year ago.  I was an artist, painting on canvas and this computer generated stuff was all new to me.  Anyone can pick it up, you just need a good eye and a bit of determination, which obviously you have.  Look at you now, you've got your own website selling your own images.  A year ago, I remember you saying you had no clue about doing something like that.  Microstock is going down the gurgler.  Agents are making more money but contributors are making bananas.  In the future it will be difficult earning a living out of it.  We'll have to work much harder just get the the same amount and lets face it, people got into microstock so they don't have to work that hard.  That's what attracted us in the beginning, right?   Instead of becoming a slave to the agents, we need to pick up some new skills and make the money we're going to lose elsewhere... that's what I reckon anyway.

I don't look at Zazzle or 99 designs as alternatives to microstock.  To me, they all marry in and complement each other.  One feeds the other.  It's probably because I have a management accounting background and I'm always looking at detail and how I can maximise the profits on an image, or what images I need to add to my portfolio to maximise profits overall. 

I know time's a big factor, but the way I see it with you is that your massive port is so established that you could quite easily walk away from microstock for a couple of weeks here and there.  The money will still come in whether you're counting it or not.  I would check out some of the contests on 99designs and even if you don't participate, they give you great ideas for new images that you would never think about.  For me, being on Zazzle and 99designs, it makes me look at the industry from every angle.  They make me see things from a company's point of view, a designer's point of view and from an average consumer's point of view. 

Sorry about the long post :)


Amazing post Pseudonymous!  Your suggestions are great!  Very creative! 

You seem to have a natural talent for design, that I don't think I share.  But I will give some thought to the idea.  It sounds like FUN.  Something to break up the monotony of shoot/upload/repeat :D
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Black Sheep on June 07, 2011, 10:11
well ... i can tell you why istock's search sucks big time.

imagine they have 10 million images online, each with dozens if not hundreds of fields (name, date, filename, keywords, etc) and you must run hundreds of SQL queries per minute ... in PHP they would also probably use the function "LIKE" of SQL which takes another huge toll on the CPU ... you would need almost a data center just for the search.

caching : you can not cache anything for logged users so everything must be computed in real time and this means a cluster of expensive servers, a skilled IT manager, network engineers, technicians, etc

the site : what CMS will you use for your project ? last time i checked the commercial ones used by many stock agenies were pretty expensive, requiring also onsite installation, onsite training of your workforce, etc etc or do you think you can run your business on an open source php cms ?

bandwidth : you will need quite a lot of it, terabytes per hours if you have thousands of users logged in and this costs a LOT, see the prices for some space in any data center near you...

sales : this is the core point, and the very reason getty rules the market.
how do you think you can screw all the competitors who already doing microstock since 10 yrs ?
how many millions can you invest in advertising ? photo fairs, public events, onsite salesmen knocking the door of the major design firms .. ? how many cars can you buy for your salesforce, their lunch and dinner, their laptops, mobile phones, a skilled sales manager... ?

look at Fotomoto for instance, it's a good idea, maybe it will work or maybe not, and what the VCs gave them ? only 1.2 million $ ... that means it's barely enough to rent an office and hire a team of 10 guys for a couple years, no salesforce, 100% online.

for a project like yours you more, a LOT more .. but what do you offer apart a fair price for both buyers and photographers ? the VCs don't give a s-hit about it, by opposite if they even fund you they will order you to squeeze as much as you can from the contributors, that's the way they do business, always been always will.

good luck.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on June 07, 2011, 11:50

I know what it would take to do it, which is exactly why I'm not doing it. I'm just saying it could be done, and it's not hard to imagine a stock site that could beat the industry vets. I think it's more of a $10mil investment goal, and more than a year building. But again, it could be done. It's just not the typical territory of VCs these days. They're usually looking at software startups, app dev, mobile, etc. But that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be enough interest in a startup that could potentially topple istock.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: stockastic on June 07, 2011, 12:22
It's not hard to imagine. A solid site, bug-free (unlike istock), simpler search functions, simple pricing (NO collections and varying pricing tiers), support for modern formats (no more EPS8), 40% royalty rate, etc.

Those goals are closely related.  The way to get solid, bug-free software is to start fresh and make it simple.  The hard part is KEEPING it simple and this is where I think IStock got into trouble, as their new owners demanded all sorts of changes and additions to the search functions and other aspects of the site.  When you have managers running in the door every couple of days with new lists of changes and "features" for immediate implementation, this is what you get: chaos.  And the more changes you make, the worse it gets. Soon every attempt to fix one problem creates another.  Eventually no single person really knows how it all works anymore, and... well it's better to just look away at that point.

I've spent 30 years in software development. I've seen it all.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: cathyslife on June 07, 2011, 12:55
Thanks for all the great tips on this topic. I have a ton of ideas for adding some of my photos/illustrations to my zazzle store, and just can't seem to find enough time. Your stats are pretty motivating, though!
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: suwanneeredhead on June 07, 2011, 13:48
I have two Zazzle stores, one is for photography and one is for illustration... the photography store is growing mold on it (not sure Zazzle is marketing for wall art too much), and my illustration store is producing more money each month than my #1 microstock site (actually I have two, iStock and Shutterstock run neck-and-neck every month), and more than all the others combined... it's ramping up quickly but so is my product count. Zazzle is SO much more creative than microstock because you don't have people telling you what they do and don't subjectively 'like,' the buyers tell me what they like and what they don't. I love that.  As I sit here and make products, I get sales that keep me motivated... $11 commission off ONE iPad case, and they are selling very well!

Zazzle does market us... when a product goes up, it gets cataloged by Google and listed immediately on all search engines... and I market myself through Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, my own blog, whatever I can put out there. I'd rather be making products than marketing so I don't spend much time on it... however I get hundreds of views a day on my stuff so apparently their marketing is working!  I did a search on "diamond bling monogram" (my new design series) and everything that came up on page 1 on Google was MINE.  Pretty impressive.  Okay, yeah, that's a bit of a narrow search but not out of the realm of possibility, and I have sold more of those "diamond bling" items than anything else so far, so it must be working.  My illustration store is http://www.zazzle.com/suwanneeredhead (http://www.zazzle.com/suwanneeredhead) and my photography store is http://www.zazzle.com/staceylynnpayne (http://www.zazzle.com/staceylynnpayne) (thanks for looking and sorry if I wasn't supposed to put this here).

Love this thread, great ideas, guys!

Stacey
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Anita Potter on June 07, 2011, 14:20
I've got a Zazzle store and I'm on Threadless but haven't done any shirt designs yet.  I'd like to though and I don't think I could do to terribly bad with it regarding some of the simple designs I've seen there and stuff.  I might have to look into that next week when I get my stock stuff sorted out.

I've only ever sold one thing through Zazzle a coffee mug over a year ago.  Like most of us it's trying to find the time to make things and get them up on the store.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on June 07, 2011, 14:33
...my illustration store is producing more money each month than my #1 microstock site (actually I have two, iStock and Shutterstock run neck-and-neck every month), and more than all the others combined... it's ramping up quickly but so is my product count. Zazzle is SO much more creative than microstock because you don't have people telling you what they do and don't subjectively 'like,' the buyers tell me what they like and what they don't. I love that.  As I sit here and make products, I get sales that keep me motivated... $11 commission off ONE iPad case, and they are selling very well...

Very impressive, Stacey. I can't say I've given zazzle a fair chance, but the $1.24 that's sitting in my account doesn't exactly motivate me much. :) Good to see you've made it work for you.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: suwanneeredhead on June 07, 2011, 15:11
Very impressive, Stacey. I can't say I've given zazzle a fair chance, but the $1.24 that's sitting in my account doesn't exactly motivate me much. :) Good to see you've made it work for you.

Thanks!  I think your style is suited to Zazzle very much... now you just have to select which of your stuff, and create new stuff, that appeals to consumers (its a totally different market than microstock), and once you have a pulse on that, your sales take off.

I've only ever sold one thing through Zazzle a coffee mug over a year ago.  Like most of us it's trying to find the time to make things and get them up on the store.

Anita judging from your ports, I think if you put your mind to it (and time), you could be making an income comparable to your microstock income and then some, with Zazzle.  I think your style lends itself very well to the application.  The people buying stuff for themselves are looking for cute, different, artistic artwork that sets them apart from their friends, and helps them make a statement about themselves. Just think about what designs of yours could be put to that use, I'm sure you have lots of them already... and the funny thing is, once you get a bead on that, new ideas start jumping into your head like crazy!  Because its a different market than what we draw for microstock, its more wide, diverse, creative, so your brain will go nuts thinking of things to "Zazzle" (it's a verb now, too).

Ha ha yeah, not like I want the competition, but good luck guys because I know you could be some stiff competition for me. I introduced Kirsty Pargeter to Zazzle and now she has a beautiful store, I'm sure she is going to blow us all away with her amazing work... but we're good too!  Zazzle advertises all over the place so I can imagine we are getting some real grassroots exposure to the consumers of the world and I think we're just beginning to see the great results.

Good luck guys!

Stacey
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: kjpargeter on June 07, 2011, 15:28
Stacey did indeed introduce me to zazzle and i am so glad she did! (thanks stacey!) Although i have only had a few sales in the few weeks i have been there i can see the potential there. Yes it takes time to get your store to have enough products to be noticed and yes you do have to promote your products but it is addictive once you start! Plus, the best part for me - there are no reviewers!!!! I am loving spending time on zazzle and i really do hope it will be worthwhile.

Now here is the shameless plug of my zazzle store :)

Www.zazzle.co.uk/kjpargeter (http://Www.zazzle.co.uk/kjpargeter)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Black Sheep on June 07, 2011, 20:22

I've spent 30 years in software development. I've seen it all.

i agree .. and why they just don't use the same CMS as Gettyimages.com ?

from my experience the search is the most unfruitful scenario to develop,
unlike google which is based on the "page rank" (reciprocal links etc in a nutshell)
how can you page-rank images which aren't linked or whatever else ? all the algorithm
can do is play with pageviews, clicks, zooms, age, filename, keywords, etc but try that
with 10s of millions of images ...

the backend of IS is also absolutely awful and illogical .. why not a single sidebar on the left with all
the functions ? why i need 3-4 clicks to see the stats i need or click on a top menu ?
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: gwhitton on June 08, 2011, 13:32
Once I put my designs, which there are about 1500 of, I don't have to think about them anymore. Yet despite this I haven't touched the site in several months, but the sales continue to march on. Have I paid for all my efforts, probably not, but unless the sale dry up unexpectedly, eventually I should. The same could be said for the micros.

hmm .. so with 1500 designs on sale you make less than 300$/month ?

Black Sheep,

I do not make $300 a month on those, no. However what I should have said is rather than designs, is products.  I may have 500 designs up there spread across 1500 products, but probably fewer. So I wouldn't expect to make $300 a month. That said, I think those with far more creative designs then my, particularly a good graphic artist could make a killing.  Straight photography I think has far less potential.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on June 08, 2011, 14:40
Thanks!  I think your style is suited to Zazzle very much... now you just have to select which of your stuff, and create new stuff, that appeals to consumers (its a totally different market than microstock), and once you have a pulse on that, your sales take off.

Alright, you've talked me into it. I'm putting a few designs up there in iPhone and iPad products. We'll see what happens.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Anita Potter on June 08, 2011, 15:58
Thank you Stacey.  I did a few things last night on there and probably won't get back to it for a few days as I'm buried under other stuff at the moment but I will get back to it.  Hopefully it'll start to take off that would be nice :)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: VB inc on June 08, 2011, 17:06
Thanks!  I think your style is suited to Zazzle very much... now you just have to select which of your stuff, and create new stuff, that appeals to consumers (its a totally different market than microstock), and once you have a pulse on that, your sales take off.

Alright, you've talked me into it. I'm putting a few designs up there in iPhone and iPad products. We'll see what happens.

This has seriously intrigued me to... it looks like i have to log onto my zazzle account i opened up 3 yrs ago. I think the potential is there for the ipads and the iphones
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Karimala on June 08, 2011, 17:22
It sounds like FUN.  Something to break up the monotony of shoot/upload/repeat :D

Zazzle is proving to be the key to breaking up the monotony...for me anyway!  Microstock burnout has been my constant companion for a couple of years now. 

My store primarily consists of public domain vintage postcards that I've collected for nearly 40 years.  I simply realized one day I have this amazing collection just sitting in shoeboxes in my closet waiting for what?  To be sold at a later date?  I can earn so much more now by digitalizing them, cleaning them up, color correcting them, and then licensing them at Alamy and adding them to products at Zazzle than I can waiting for the day when I decide to sell them.  Just the change in focus has been enough to break up the monotony.  I still get to shoot, plus now I also get to enjoy my postcard collection in the process, which I wasn't doing while they sat in the closet.

The hardest part is setting up a great store.  Adding products is the easy part, especially if you create your own "quick create templates."  I can crank out upwards of 44 new products every 30-45 minutes with my custom templates. 
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: gwhitton on June 08, 2011, 17:55
Thanks!  I think your style is suited to Zazzle very much... now you just have to select which of your stuff, and create new stuff, that appeals to consumers (its a totally different market than microstock), and once you have a pulse on that, your sales take off.

Alright, you've talked me into it. I'm putting a few designs up there in iPhone and iPad products. We'll see what happens.

This has seriously intrigued me to... it looks like i have to log onto my zazzle account i opened up 3 yrs ago. I think the potential is there for the ipads and the iphones

I am not sure the iphones and ipads are best place to start.  Their base price is pretty high. At a minimum I would try a few other things...take advantage of their multiple offerings, and put the same design on several...where it make sense of course. For me the worthwile items have been stamps. There multiple examples I can point you two where themed products whether its Christmas, Graduations, or Wedding, are great sellers if you have very appealing designs.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on June 08, 2011, 18:19

I'm still a skeptic. I have a hard time believing that I can make any money selling print-on-demand iphone cases and buttons. But I'm willing to give it a try. A real try this time and not just the couple of stamp designs I had up there before.

Here we go... http://www.zazzle.com/emberstock (http://www.zazzle.com/emberstock)

We'll see what happens...
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: madelaide on June 08, 2011, 18:36
Yes, Zazzle sucks, keep away from it.  :)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: VB inc on June 08, 2011, 23:05

I'm still a skeptic. I have a hard time believing that I can make any money selling print-on-demand iphone cases and buttons. But I'm willing to give it a try. A real try this time and not just the couple of stamp designs I had up there before.

Here we go... [url]http://www.zazzle.com/emberstock[/url] ([url]http://www.zazzle.com/emberstock[/url])

We'll see what happens...


good stuff... keep us posted. i think your swirls will sell.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Microbius on June 09, 2011, 02:22
How much do you guys price up your products by?
I think I may be overpricing mine.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Anita Potter on June 09, 2011, 02:59
I keep mine at 15% commission not that it's done me any good ;)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on June 09, 2011, 03:26
How much do you guys price up your products by?
I think I may be overpricing mine.

I have most at 30% time to time a sale.. I have spent there like 20hours tops
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Microbius on June 09, 2011, 03:51
I'm somewhere in between at 25%, I've made a few hundred pounds there over the last year or so but that's with a good few thousand products (I've been bulk creating), so I don't consider it a good return on my time.
I'm considering just leaving that shop to tick over and setting up a few smaller more focused/ niche shops I can promote better.
I'm also on the ArtsProjekt side of Zazzle with a few things, without any sales there. I try to keep the two separate, more stocky stuff at the normal Zazzle shop, more creative stuff that has taken longer to create at ArtsProjekt.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: madelaide on June 09, 2011, 06:13
I don't recommend the bulk creation tool. I think each product needs to be carefully designed to be attractive.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Microbius on June 09, 2011, 06:53
Maybe that's where I'm going wrong, that's why I was thinking about making some smaller more targeted shops with better thought out products.
When I first started up everyone as advising me to just get as much stuff up as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: sharpshot on June 09, 2011, 08:05
I like the iphone covers but do we have to do a separate one for the iphone 3 and 4?  And I suppose it all has to be done again when the iphone 5 comes out?  Quite time consuming if you want to do lots of designs.  I like the look of this one that I did.  Shame I don't have an iphone.
http://www.zazzle.co.uk/groovy_blue_colors_graduated_stripes_pattern_speckcase-176486320233381192 (http://www.zazzle.co.uk/groovy_blue_colors_graduated_stripes_pattern_speckcase-176486320233381192)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on June 09, 2011, 09:16

I'm keeping pretty much everything at the base 10% rate until I get a few sales.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on June 09, 2011, 11:15

I'm keeping pretty much everything at the base 10% rate until I get a few sales.

not a zazzle fan but 10% is just insane.. IS pays 15%
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Snufkin on June 09, 2011, 11:20

not a zazzle fan but 10% is just insane.. IS pays 15%

You shouldn't compare 15-19% of a digital licence with 10-15% of the price of a product which needs to be physically manufactured.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: sharpshot on June 09, 2011, 11:20

I'm keeping pretty much everything at the base 10% rate until I get a few sales.

not a zazzle fan but 10% is just insane.. IS pays 15%
It's a completely different thing.  It's the amount we make after zazzle take their share for the cost of producing the products and their profit.  We can make it 99% if we want but the prices will be too high.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Snufkin on June 09, 2011, 11:25
When I feel that Zazzles's base price of a product is too high for the market I leave my commission at the default level.
Otherwise I set 20-35%.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: etienjones on June 09, 2011, 12:09
I set my prices at 20% but make  an exception for really low priced products like Post Cards which I kick up to 30% (the difference for these products are only pennies more and not prohibited)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on June 09, 2011, 12:44

not a zazzle fan but 10% is just insane.. IS pays 15%

You shouldn't compare 15-19% of a digital licence with 10-15% of the price of a product which needs to be physically manufactured.

That's what I figured. This is a product royalty, not a commercial image use license.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: TheSmilingAssassin on June 12, 2011, 02:17
Amazing post Pseudonymous!  Your suggestions are great!  Very creative! 

You seem to have a natural talent for design, that I don't think I share.  But I will give some thought to the idea.  It sounds like FUN.  Something to break up the monotony of shoot/upload/repeat :D


Thanks Lisa.  It really is fun and once you start selling it's even more fun!  It doesn't take long to get good at designing.  Honestly, my designs were crappy when I first started... just slapping my illustrations straight onto products without much thought.  Surprisingly they still sold and still do.  I put a lot more thought into it now though.  For instance I created an isolated Irish hat for St. Patty's day and it evolved into many different illustrations.  This one is one of my favourites that sells well and was fun creating ...  "THE ASSHAT"  :D

http://www.zazzle.com/sunnymars/gifts?cg=196070385172875513 (http://www.zazzle.com/sunnymars/gifts?cg=196070385172875513)

It stirred up a few of the older shopkeepers after I posted it on my facebook page LOL.  That was fun too!
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: TheSmilingAssassin on June 12, 2011, 02:25

not a zazzle fan but 10% is just insane.. IS pays 15%

You shouldn't compare 15-19% of a digital licence with 10-15% of the price of a product which needs to be physically manufactured.

That's what I figured. This is a product royalty, not a commercial image use license.

Nah, 10% is nuts.  Bump it up mate.  I've got all of mine at 25% and I'm thinking of upping the lower priced items.  Don't forget that Zazzle also offers big discounts so you'll end up getting 10% of nothing during these big sales.  You're a great illustrator... your stuff is worth more than that.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: lisafx on June 12, 2011, 16:49

This one is one of my favourites that sells well and was fun creating ...  "THE ASSHAT"  :D

[url]http://www.zazzle.com/sunnymars/gifts?cg=196070385172875513[/url] ([url]http://www.zazzle.com/sunnymars/gifts?cg=196070385172875513[/url])

It stirred up a few of the older shopkeepers after I posted it on my facebook page LOL.  That was fun too!


ROFL!!!  Absolutely hilarious!  Can't wait to show that one to my hubby :D

Is Pog mo thoin Irish for kiss my ass?
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: oboy on June 12, 2011, 18:54
I mark all of them with 24%
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on June 12, 2011, 20:08
Nah, 10% is nuts.  Bump it up mate.  I've got all of mine at 25% and I'm thinking of upping the lower priced items.  Don't forget that Zazzle also offers big discounts so you'll end up getting 10% of nothing during these big sales.  You're a great illustrator... your stuff is worth more than that.

I'll bump the price when I get a few sales. So far I've had zero activity, and I don't want to deter any sales just yet based on price.

I'm also seeing a lot of great artists in the Artsprojekt keeping their stuff at the base rate. It's hard for me to justify a bump in my prices when I see guys like Chris Parks keeping his stuff at 10%.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on June 13, 2011, 21:55
How do you guys promote your zazzle stores? I'm getting close to zero views on my products. Any tips for promotion and traffic building?
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on June 13, 2011, 22:36
How do you guys promote your zazzle stores? I'm getting close to zero views on my products. Any tips for promotion and traffic building?

I donīt do nothing but I donīt spend many time there.. but from what I see is MASSIVE twitter/facebook spamming all over with as many people following/followers, great no?? ;D
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: oboy on June 13, 2011, 23:49
I started a while ago a Squidoo lens on how to promote a Zazzle store.
http://www.squidoo.com/how-to-promote-your-zazzle-store- (http://www.squidoo.com/how-to-promote-your-zazzle-store-)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: lagereek on June 14, 2011, 00:21
Veterinary surgery! 
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on June 14, 2011, 12:31
Veterinary surgery! 

thatīs a great alternative too bad we need to take a degree and such  ;D
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Karimala on June 14, 2011, 12:34
I only started "advertising" about a month ago -- Twitter, Facebook fan page, talking about it here and at Shutterstock.  Here's a breakdown of where my hits came from during the past month.

1.    microstockgroup.com / referral 89
2.    forum.zazzle.com / referral 54    
3.    (direct) / (none) 25
4.    twitter.com / referral 15
5.    submit.shutterstock.com / referral 14
6.    facebook.com / referral 5    
7.    cmt.zazzle.com / referral 1
8.    forum.zazzle.nl / referral 1
9.    mail.aol.com / referral 1
10.    squidoo.com / referral 1
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Karimala on June 14, 2011, 13:03
Another thing that helps is receiving Zazzle's "Today's Best Award."  Got one myself yesterday, in fact!  Not only do my views increase for a few days, but the award-winning product gets a higher placement in Zazzle's search.  The only way to receive those awards is to keep creating stuff, because they only award it for new uploads. 
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: lagereek on June 14, 2011, 13:19
Veterinary surgery! 

thatīs a great alternative too bad we need to take a degree and such  ;D

Surprise!  thats my real profession. Was active as a Vet ( still am for friends horses and dogs) for many years alongside with photography ( my entire life).
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Karimala on June 14, 2011, 14:04
One more idea...check Zazzle's forums under section "Ideas and sites used to promote your store."  You'll find a bunch of offers from folks to add your store link to their Squidoo lens or Facebook fan page or whatever.  http://forum.zazzle.com/promote (http://forum.zazzle.com/promote)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on June 14, 2011, 14:10
Veterinary surgery! 

thatīs a great alternative too bad we need to take a degree and such  ;D

Surprise!  thats my real profession. Was active as a Vet ( still am for friends horses and dogs) for many years alongside with photography ( my entire life).

thatīs nice :)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on June 14, 2011, 14:12
One more idea...check Zazzle's forums under section "Ideas and sites used to promote your store."  You'll find a bunch of offers from folks to add your store link to their Squidoo lens or Facebook fan page or whatever.  [url]http://forum.zazzle.com/promote[/url] ([url]http://forum.zazzle.com/promote[/url])


you store is stunning, very very nice, you have been doing a great job, hope sales too
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Karimala on June 14, 2011, 14:20
Thanks! 

Sales are coming along slowly but steadily...just increased my inventory from 500 to 1600+ over the past week, so we'll see what happens.  I sold an iPhone case a couple of days ago within hours after it published for sale and immediately thought of Helix being all skeptical about selling iPhone cases.  LOL 
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on June 14, 2011, 15:07
Thanks! 

Sales are coming along slowly but steadily...just increased my inventory from 500 to 1600+ over the past week, so we'll see what happens.  I sold an iPhone case a couple of days ago within hours after it published for sale and immediately thought of Helix being all skeptical about selling iPhone cases.  LOL 

I'm still skeptical! :) My account balance is still sitting at $0.00. I'm guessing it's just because until last week I only had a couple of products. Probably just need to give it more time.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: madelaide on June 14, 2011, 16:04
I mark all of them with 24%
Mine range from 15 to 40%. I may have some older stuff at 10% only.

Would a US$1 more in a US$20 item refrain you from buying it? I don't think so, if you have what the buyer wants (just like in stock photography).

Also, as someone said before, Zazzle often offers discounts, so the final price - and your share of it - may be much less.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Karimala on June 14, 2011, 16:20
Mine are all set at 22%, but I'm thinking about increasing all the cards, key chains and other cheap items.  What's another few cents to the customer, especially when they tend to buy cheap items in bulk.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on June 17, 2011, 12:05
So a couple of weeks into it with Zazzle I've got just 1 sale, a small button that netted me $0.15. So I'm still very skeptical that I can make any decent amount of money with the site, but I'll give it time. Based on low numbers of views, though, and just a single small sale, I'm not inclined to put too much time into this.

Two observations I've had with Zazzle: 1.) Something is up with the Views stats, because the one hting I've sold still says 0 Views. 2.) I'm noticed a ton of products featuring images that obviously aren't owned by the sellers. Things with photos of celebrities, politicians, etc. How do people get away with this stuff? Isn't there any copyright enforcement on Zazzle?
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: VB inc on June 17, 2011, 12:09

So a couple of weeks into it with Zazzle I've got just 1 sale, a small button that netted me $0.15. So I'm still very skeptical that I can make any decent amount of money with the site, but I'll give it time. Based on low numbers of views, though, and just a single small sale, I'm not inclined to put too much time into this.

man i so wanted to hear a success story from you. no traffic is what stopped me from investing more time into my shop 2 years ago. I was hoping it was different this time around with the possibility of many more buyers. I think in order to succeed you have to drive most of the traffic yourself which seems pretty hard to do.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: RT on June 17, 2011, 16:12
I think more people should try to sell their stock images direct instead of relying on making cents selling via small revenue sites, it takes a bit of hard work but it's ultimately more rewarding.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: stockastic on June 17, 2011, 16:39
If you do no promotion of your own, you'll get 0 views.  You have to find a market and communicate to it, all on your own.  Zazzle is just a way to get one-offs printed and shipped.    At these prices the only things likely to sell are buttons and business cards, unless you have some tie-in to a sports team, organization, political movement etc and can reach people that will pay $15 for a coffee cup because it has that special message.





 
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on June 17, 2011, 16:53
If you do no promotion of your own, you'll get 0 views.  You have to find a market and communicate to it, all on your own.  Zazzle is just a way to get one-offs printed and shipped.    At these prices the only things likely to sell are buttons and business cards, unless you have some tie-in to a sports team, organization, political movement etc and can reach people that will pay $15 for a coffee cup because it has that special message.

I have never promote my store.. never! I spent there like 2 weekends  (15hours tops) while watching TV and such.. got around 100$ for 2 years
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Karimala on June 17, 2011, 18:07
@Helix...the zero views is a current known glitch.  It started on the 13th, the day after my second product earned a "Today's Best Award."  Grr.  Try the monthly views link.  It seems to still be working.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Karimala on June 17, 2011, 18:42
So a couple of weeks into it with Zazzle I've got just 1 sale, a small button that netted me $0.15. So I'm still very skeptical that I can make any decent amount of money with the site, but I'll give it time.


15 cents on 31 products in two weeks.  It's a start, isn't it?  I'm wondering why this cute freaky little blue creature isn't being featured on more stuff than just a button.  He'd make a really cute kids' t-shirt. 

(http://rlv.zcache.com/little_monster_button-p1453795849638203027on5_325.jpg) 
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on June 17, 2011, 18:44
A horned sperm?
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: Karimala on June 17, 2011, 18:53
A horned sperm?

After suffering through two week's-plus worth of Weiner jokes, that's pretty good.  LOL
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: lagereek on June 17, 2011, 23:53
I think more people should try to sell their stock images direct instead of relying on making cents selling via small revenue sites, it takes a bit of hard work but it's ultimately more rewarding.


Too true!  the thing is, everyone seams to be staring themselves blind at the internet, thinking thats the only way of selling and thats ofcourse also the place where you earn the least. There are other ways and far more lucrative.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: RacePhoto on June 20, 2011, 22:11
I've resisted the urge but, get a real job? Oh wait the message says designing, and I don't even do stick figurines, so what do I know?

Micro is my 4th source of income, I think that's appropriate attention and effort. I enjoy it and now and then I actually have something inspired and shoot it. The rest of the time, it's CrapStock and snapshots. Someone wants to pay me 25c to $2 for that, I'll take it.

By the way, I found a Ten dollar bill on the ground on Sunday. Crowd of people walking along a path and I bent over to pick it up, the rest didn't notice it. That's more than I made on PP last month. So my theory that I could make more picking up change on the ground may not be as whacked out as it sounds? ;)

I've had two crafts and art types tell me how much they liked Etsy, so that's my vote for the future. I don't know how it does with photos?
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on July 12, 2011, 08:26
Just wanted to update my Zazzle progress. I added a few more products and designs, in addition to the "horned sperm" character (thanks, Sean). So far I've got a couple of small button sales and 1 iPhone case. I did some twitter promotion, but nothing major.

For the time and effort put into setting up the store and doing some light promotion, I'm of the opinion that Zazzle just isn't worth it. I'm going to leave the store alone for a while and see if anything happens, but I'm not expecting this to ever become comparable to any of the microstock sites I'm on.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: louoates on July 12, 2011, 11:38
Etsy -- Very strange site. Click on art/photography/landscape if you want to see some really ugly stuff. Try the highest price sort for a laugh. The lowest price sort seems to be a loss-leader front for selling higher price prints without having the advertised .20 cent product available.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: lagereek on July 12, 2011, 11:57
Jeez, all these sites? I mean its not even photography and most of them seems a joke. I dont know, is anyone here serious about these mickey Mouse sites?
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: madelaide on July 13, 2011, 20:04
I guess results at Zazzle vary a lot. In the past three months, my sales there were above any of the micros. Also 2011 earnings at Zazzle are above any of the micros (less than some once I consider the tax, as they charge me 30% of everything). Last month in fact I made more than the sum of my two best micros. But then no sales yet this month - summer slowdown there too?

I have a very small micro portfolio compared to most of you, and they are no-people images, so I believe this also explains my humble results in micro, and perhaps the type of images I have (photos and illustrations) suit better the public at Zazzle.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: TheSmilingAssassin on July 14, 2011, 06:54

This one is one of my favourites that sells well and was fun creating ...  "THE ASSHAT"  :D

[url]http://www.zazzle.com/sunnymars/gifts?cg=196070385172875513[/url] ([url]http://www.zazzle.com/sunnymars/gifts?cg=196070385172875513[/url])

It stirred up a few of the older shopkeepers after I posted it on my facebook page LOL.  That was fun too!


ROFL!!!  Absolutely hilarious!  Can't wait to show that one to my hubby :D

Is Pog mo thoin Irish for kiss my ass?


I could have sworn I posted and answered your question previously but I can't find my post.  Sorry about the delay, yeah, it's Irish for "kiss my ass" :)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: TheSmilingAssassin on July 14, 2011, 07:30
Just wanted to update my Zazzle progress. I added a few more products and designs, in addition to the "horned sperm" character (thanks, Sean). So far I've got a couple of small button sales and 1 iPhone case. I did some twitter promotion, but nothing major.

For the time and effort put into setting up the store and doing some light promotion, I'm of the opinion that Zazzle just isn't worth it. I'm going to leave the store alone for a while and see if anything happens, but I'm not expecting this to ever become comparable to any of the microstock sites I'm on.


If you're not willing to put some real time and effort into it, yeah, it's not worth it.  You make money from micro but how much time and effort have you put into that?  Years!  You set up a store, add 50 products and expect to make anything decent?  Your store looks very boring, you don't have designs spread across as many products as you can and you never really gave it a chance.

Check my store out if you want:

http://zazzle.com/sunnymars (http://zazzle.com/sunnymars)*

I've put in a fair bit of work but I'm nowhere near where I want to be and am still working on it.  Everything I have done though has paid off and fairly quickly. 

I'm not really trying to convince you to keep at it because the less shopkeepers there are, the better it is for me but I just can't believe you gave up on it so quickly.  I know a lot of shopkeepers there that do Zazzle for a living and only Zazzle so it's no "mickey mouse" thing as lagareek said above.  It's a real earner but you have to put some work into it like everything else (inlcuding microstock) and you have to promote yourself or have other shopkeepers promote you.  50% of my sales come straight from the MP and the other 50% are from referrals.  If you have decent products, people will refer them.  I do a lot of promoting and make a fair whack of my earnings through that as well.  Some people there only promote and make 15% of every sale.  That's more than your 10%.

Cheers!
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: helix7 on July 14, 2011, 09:27
If you're not willing to put some real time and effort into it, yeah, it's not worth it.  You make money from micro but how much time and effort have you put into that?  Years!  You set up a store, add 50 products and expect to make anything decent?  Your store looks very boring, you don't have designs spread across as many products as you can and you never really gave it a chance.

...

I'm not really trying to convince you to keep at it because the less shopkeepers there are, the better it is for me but I just can't believe you gave up on it so quickly.  I know a lot of shopkeepers there that do Zazzle for a living and only Zazzle so it's no "mickey mouse" thing as lagareek said above.  It's a real earner but you have to put some work into it like everything else (inlcuding microstock) and you have to promote yourself or have other shopkeepers promote you...

You're probably right, I may not be approaching it the right way. It's definitely not just another site for microstock artists to dump their images and leave them. There's serious maintenance required just to get a decent looking zazzle store set up. And I think that's the deterrent for me. Like you said, I've already put in years developing my stock portfolio. I've got the artwork for the products, and it took a lot of time to create that artwork. I'm not motivated to spend so many hours now setting up a store just to create another channel to sell that artwork through.

I may not necessarily be giving up on it, but I think it's more of a time commitment than I'm willing to make right now. I had hoped that some good artwork would sort of carry itself, generate enough clicks just from the thumbnail being attractive enough. I had an image in Today's Best, and it got 5 views from that. It seems like way too much emphasis falls on the artist to drive traffic to the site.

I'll add some products as time permits, but right now it's just not feasible for me to put in the amount of time that seems to be required to make any significant gains.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: madelaide on July 14, 2011, 18:46
Sunnymars, they way you've arranged your store, all those icons and sections, was it plain HTML or the advanced editor? Very cool.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: WarrenPrice on July 14, 2011, 20:47
deleted
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: TheSmilingAssassin on July 14, 2011, 22:33
Sunnymars, they way you've arranged your store, all those icons and sections, was it plain HTML or the advanced editor? Very cool.

madelaide, it's a mix of both.
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: sharpshot on August 04, 2011, 03:13
I decided to give Saatchi a go with some of my more "artistic" efforts.  Quite like the site and they have some great content, just hope they sell something one day.

http://www.saatchionline.com/sharpart (http://www.saatchionline.com/sharpart)
Title: Re: What are alternatives for microstock?
Post by: grp_photo on August 04, 2011, 06:40
I decided to give Saatchi a go with some of my more "artistic" efforts.  Quite like the site and they have some great content, just hope they sell something one day.

[url]http://www.saatchionline.com/sharpart[/url] ([url]http://www.saatchionline.com/sharpart[/url])

nice ones - good luck!