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Topic: WORLD CUP - is this term copyrighted? - ZAZZLE statement **UPDATE ***  

(Read 4569 times)
RT

Dreamstime GaugeiStock Gauge
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2010, 13:19 »

Much confusion will and has been associated with this including the blog you referred to above, I very much doubt FIFA won a court case and had that pub change it's signage solely because it used the phrase "world cup 2010" it would have involved offer factors to support the case to stop anybody to be lead into believing the pub was officially associated or endorsed with the FIFA world cup. Using that phrase would have formed part of the evidence for the case presented by FIFA lawyers, along with things like the location of the pub, the flags and other signage or promotional material.

In 2010 there is a cricket, hockey, basketball, women's baseball, gymnastics events that are all using the term "world cup 2010" and I doubt hundreds more if you can be bothered to look on google.

There are, have been and will be "world cup" events for nearly every single sport imaginable that all will be officially and legally using the term "world cup" in their promotional material.

If Zazzle removed your design then that's their right they can decide what appears on their site, but I'd say they are very wrong to tell you that you cannot use the term "world cup", and as you've pointed out above iStock agree.


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click_click


Dreamstime GaugeiStock Gauge
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2010, 13:30 »

... If Zazzle removed your design then that's their right they can decide what appears on their site, but I'd say they are very wrong to tell you that you cannot use the term "world cup", and as you've pointed out above iStock agree.

I understand that any agency/business has their right to decide what appears on their site and what not.

However, Zazzle informed me that the copyright holder contacted them and therefore they were forced to remove the content. I really don't want to open a can of worms and poke Zazzle why this was possible while iStock has no problem using those terms in a design.


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RT

Dreamstime GaugeiStock Gauge
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2010, 13:48 »

Well without seeing your design it's hard to make an absolute judgement, however if this purely involves your design featuring the term "world cup" then ask Zazzle who the "copyright holder" is, they won't be able to because a) there isn't one and as I explained above there can't be one and b) 'copyright' isn't the correct legal term for protecting the usage of a word or phrase anyway.


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RT

Dreamstime GaugeiStock Gauge
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2010, 14:30 »

@click click

I just checked for you, FIFA (Switzerland) registered a class 25 trademark for "World Cup" on 12th March 1999 which expires on 19th January 2020. The important bit it's a class 25 registration which applies to using the term "World Cup" on the following goods or services: Football boots, football shirts, football shorts, football socks & football clothing.

They also have worldwide multiple class registrations on "FIFA World Cup" and "2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa" and "South Africa 2010" on certain classes.

The term "World Cup" alone is not able to be registered as an all class trademark.

There are literally hundreds and hundreds of registered trademarks that feature "world cup" as part of the trademark.

In summary what this means is that:

- nobody can trademark just the term "World Cup" so that nobody else can use it.

- having just looked at Zazzle (sorry I thought they were a stock site) they print clothing and herein lies your problem, if your design also features a football related theme it could be viewed as being 'football clothing' as listed under the class 25 registration if printed on some of Zazzle's clothing and I'd imagine that's why they removed it. Although they are still wrong to tell you "world cup" can't be used in a design.

- You can however still do your design and use "world cup" and a football theme and you can sell it on a stock site, the problem would arise if somebody then used it on one off the items as listed in the class 25 registration, selling it as RF might be a problem because a buyer doesn't get any specific usage restrictions with the license when they purchase it, but then again strictly speaking that's their problem not yours, most stock sites however tend to lean towards caution.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 15:03 by RT »

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click_click


Dreamstime GaugeiStock Gauge
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2010, 15:00 »

Thanks for checking. I tried to do my homework as well and checked their web site but couldn't find explicit information about the term "World Cup".


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RT

Dreamstime GaugeiStock Gauge
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2010, 15:05 »

Sorry I was editing my reply above when you typed your last post (my wife shouted dinner was ready  Grin)

For all the hassle involved maybe move onto another design Wink
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 15:20 by RT »

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click_click


Dreamstime GaugeiStock Gauge
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2010, 15:36 »

Sorry I was editing my reply above when you typed your last post (my wife shouted dinner was ready  Grin)

For all the hassle involved maybe move onto another design Wink

You're right. It's not worth the hazzle of assuming and relying on stuff you read online instead of having an attorney look it over for me. It's no big deal I was just really confused what the deal is here.

Thanks again for your efforts!


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ComfortEagle2095



« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2010, 17:56 »

The problem is that many companies are intentionally mis-using copyright and trademark law to benefit themselves.  They know they can't enforce some restrictions but they also know that no one wants to fight a costly legal battle with them.  So when they see a usage they don't like, even a legitimate one, they speak the magic word "lawsuit" and everyone knuckles under.

The same goes for companies and organizations that improperly prohibit the taking of photographs in public places.  They can't do that (at least in the US--the Supreme Court has upheld these rights repeatedly) but they intimidate people with unenforceable legal threats that they know no one wants to fight because of the costs involved.

It's a shame.


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madelaide
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2010, 19:28 »

RT,

The information you supplied was very interesting, and it makes sense.  Is there a link where this is, even partially, explained, so we can send Zazzle if necessary? 

I plan to design World Cup t-shirts myself, even if not using the term in the design, but I would certainly make reference in the description (and keyword).  I might even make a folder with World Cup related items.


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click_click


Dreamstime GaugeiStock Gauge
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2010, 19:51 »

... I plan to design World Cup t-shirts myself, even if not using the term in the design, but I would certainly make reference in the description (and keyword).  I might even make a folder with World Cup related items.

The more I talk about this, the more I feel like I'm doing something wrong.

I know that I'm not trying to make my designs look like rip-offs of the official FIFA merchandise line but in the end it comes down to that FIFA is holding this event and created this event and we are trying to monetize it by selling stuff that relates to the event.

Is it just my conscience talking or is it really wrong?


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madelaide
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2010, 20:53 »

Click_click,

Interesting thought, but no, I don't think we're trying to monetize on FIFA's event.  We're taking a market opportunity, like Easter, Christmas, etc.  Selling a t-shirt saying "Brazil rumo ao hexa" (which is a direct connection with the world cup, "hexa" meaning the 6th title we'll be fighting for), "Forza Italia" or "Allez les bleus" are just merchandise for sports fans to use during the games, even if staying home.  It's not different from selling flags and vuvuzelas with the colors of a country. 

It's fair that I can not use FIFA's logo, in order not to be competing with their official merchandise. It's fair that I can not use the participating countries' offical insignias as well.  But there is nothing wrong about selling stuff that may appeal to football fans.


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click_click


Dreamstime GaugeiStock Gauge
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2010, 21:07 »

Click_click,

Interesting thought, but no, I don't think we're trying to monetize on FIFA's event.  We're taking a market opportunity, like Easter, Christmas, etc.  Selling a t-shirt saying "Brazil rumo ao hexa" (which is a direct connection with the world cup, "hexa" meaning the 6th title we'll be fighting for), "Forza Italia" or "Allez les bleus" are just merchandise for sports fans to use during the games, even if staying home.  It's not different from selling flags and vuvuzelas with the colors of a country. 

It's fair that I can not use FIFA's logo, in order not to be competing with their official merchandise. It's fair that I can not use the participating countries' offical insignias as well.  But there is nothing wrong about selling stuff that may appeal to football fans.

OK that makes me feel better. On to some new designs.


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willie


« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2010, 13:55 »

I expect there will be "counterfeit" of any world event whenever .
But with something like the World Cup, I am not even sure if this is a profitable thing.
Have you ever tried to sell counterfeit paraphenelia to a sport fan?
Most of these fanatics will never settle for the counterfeit. Even if you tried to forge it , they know a forgery by a mile.
It's like trying to sell a counterfeit comic to a collector. You won't succeed because they will pay for the real thing.
Just my thoughts on this.

Also, for those in S Africa for the event, trying to sell these unofficial wares will not even be allowed inside the perimeter. Much like most concerts when you go to a rock show. They have security checking your bags to ensure you don't even bring your own beer or pop, never mind try to smuggle in some counterfeits to sell on site.
The surest way to get the boot. (ah, bad pun)


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Oldhand


« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2010, 15:04 »

Hmmm!

In the UK we have Premier League football, and all photographers have to sign a licensing agreement agreeing to what it can be used for - basically editorial material. Anything else, posters, football cards, t-shirts etc, and you loose young license and feel the wrath of their hitmen. The license cost's a photographer / agency money, you need public libaility insurance, and have to be established before they'll give you one. In effect it's now a closed shop for any freelancer starting out.

I can keyworkd Premier League 09/10 season as much as I want, but woe betide I try and give the impression any image I create was taken at a premier league ground or invloves their logo if I sell for otherwise than editorial.

Simple was around this was to take pics of UK teams oversea's in European competition or friendly matches. Unless you signed anything before the game you were OK, and could do as you wanted with this pics.

I used to apply for World Cup passes for a large sports agency, again the problem is the restriction on how they could be sold. No problem with editorial use, but marketing merchanside etc is a hangable offence unless you are their "official" photographers.

With the amount of money in football, their rights are protected very well, hence the details posted earler that FIFA had filed back in 1999.

If you want to take a pic of a football on a South African flag, then I would caption away as "world cup 2010 soccer football". Stick the same image with the trophy on it, and it could be a problem.

Istock are correct and "world cup" is not copyrighted per se, but any photographs claiming to represent it or taken in the stadia are governed by licensing restiction.

Saying all this, every match I have ever attended (100's) has had unlicensed merchandise for sale outside the ground, all that's got to come from somewhere. Unless you need to stay on the right side of governing bodies so they will continue to grant photographer's passes, then I would not worry too much.

On a final note, I always thought football / soccer was the people's game! Fat chance when it becomes a money spinning business opportunity. Half of the World CUp Final match's ticket's go to sponsor and FIFA hangers on. The real fan get ripped off for their meagre allocation of seats. In England the former are all know as the "prawn sandwich brigade", i.e they don't attend matches for fun, just to fill their corpulent bodies with fine food and drink trendy wine.

Rant over for the Easter weekend

Oldhand


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madelaide
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2010, 15:41 »

We're not talking about counterfeit merchandise.  Official football t-shirts cost US$60 and above here.  A lot of fans can not afford that, or are not willing to, and are happy to have another t-shirt that is somehow related to his team - same colors even in a different pattern.

Now, if you are going to SA to watch the cup, you can not make your own t-shirt saying World Cup 2010?  That would be ridiculous.


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willie


« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2010, 15:53 »

Hmmm!

In the UK we have Premier League football, and all photographers have to sign a licensing agreement agreeing to what it can be used for - basically editorial material. Anything else, posters, football cards, t-shirts etc, and you loose young license and feel the wrath of their hitmen. The license cost's a photographer / agency money, you need public libaility insurance, and have to be established before they'll give you one. In effect it's now a closed shop for any freelancer starting out.

I can keyworkd Premier League 09/10 season as much as I want, but woe betide I try and give the impression any image I create was taken at a premier league ground or invloves their logo if I sell for otherwise than editorial.

Simple was around this was to take pics of UK teams oversea's in European competition or friendly matches. Unless you signed anything before the game you were OK, and could do as you wanted with this pics.

I used to apply for World Cup passes for a large sports agency, again the problem is the restriction on how they could be sold. No problem with editorial use, but marketing merchanside etc is a hangable offence unless you are their "official" photographers.

With the amount of money in football, their rights are protected very well, hence the details posted earler that FIFA had filed back in 1999.

If you want to take a pic of a football on a South African flag, then I would caption away as "world cup 2010 soccer football". Stick the same image with the trophy on it, and it could be a problem.

Istock are correct and "world cup" is not copyrighted per se, but any photographs claiming to represent it or taken in the stadia are governed by licensing restiction.

Saying all this, every match I have ever attended (100's) has had unlicensed merchandise for sale outside the ground, all that's got to come from somewhere. Unless you need to stay on the right side of governing bodies so they will continue to grant photographer's passes, then I would not worry too much.

On a final note, I always thought football / soccer was the people's game! Fat chance when it becomes a money spinning business opportunity. Half of the World CUp Final match's ticket's go to sponsor and FIFA hangers on. The real fan get ripped off for their meagre allocation of seats. In England the former are all know as the "prawn sandwich brigade", i.e they don't attend matches for fun, just to fill their corpulent bodies with fine food and drink trendy wine.

Rant over for the Easter weekend

Oldhand

Yes, agreed .

The thing is that even if you're permitted to submit editorials, with an event like World Cup where they have their own syndication, no newspaper will pay for your work anyway when they can get it from the syndycates.
Same thing with rock concerts, etc..  Every top draw has their own distributor, and you're really wasting your time trying to sell editorials of something taken behind the crowd,etc. when their own officials are on stage, etc..
The press knows that, and will not waste their time looking through stock editorials, they go straight to the syndicates to get a copy of what they want.
My point isn't whether one is allowed to shoot or not, but more whether it's worth the trouble.


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click_click


Dreamstime GaugeiStock Gauge
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2010, 14:35 »

Latest developments @ Zazzle:

Quote
Dear Zazzler,

Thank you for contacting Zazzle.com.

Unfortunately Zazzle was contacted by Fration Internationale de Football Association (FIFA) to have any products in violation of their trademarks and intellectual property rights removed from the Zazzle Marketplace. 

For example World Cup 2010 and South Africa 2010 infringes upon FIFA's trademarks.
...

I still don't know where this is written.

Anywho, I'll repsect it.


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sjlocke

iStock Gauge
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2010, 14:36 »

"South Africa 2010" is a trademark?  Ridiculous.


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click_click


Dreamstime GaugeiStock Gauge
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2010, 14:40 »

"South Africa 2010" is a trademark?  Ridiculous.

You said that...

I just don't like lawyers (working against me). So I stand down.


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Suljo


Dreamstime GaugeiStock Gauge
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2010, 20:22 »

"South Africa 2010" is a trademark?  Ridiculous.

Maybe they like us but without penetration...


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keiz

New Member


« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2010, 05:54 »

hello, do you mind sharing more of that mail?

Just curious because there are references to the term "World Cup".

I am very curious because I'm working on a web project and i would like to know if I am allowed to use in the website, the terms "World Cup". E.g. Come find out more about your favorite World Cup players.

Latest developments @ Zazzle:

Quote
Dear Zazzler,

Thank you for contacting Zazzle.com.

Unfortunately Zazzle was contacted by Fration Internationale de Football Association (FIFA) to have any products in violation of their trademarks and intellectual property rights removed from the Zazzle Marketplace. 

For example World Cup 2010 and South Africa 2010 infringes upon FIFA's trademarks.
...

I still don't know where this is written.

Anywho, I'll repsect it.


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click_click


Dreamstime GaugeiStock Gauge
« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2010, 07:09 »

hello, do you mind sharing more of that mail?

Just curious because there are references to the term "World Cup".

I am very curious because I'm working on a web project and i would like to know if I am allowed to use in the website, the terms "World Cup". E.g. Come find out more about your favorite World Cup players.

Honestly, I'd recommend to contact FIFA directly to ask about that or talk to a lawyer.

I'm absolutely unable to give you any recommendation if you can use the term or not.

I just wanted to let everyone here know what happened to me and not what they can do.


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