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Author Topic: Yuri Arcurs beginning  (Read 24940 times)

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calcaneus10

« on: July 17, 2013, 20:37 »
0
When Yuri was on shutterstock, it said his location was South Africa.  I'm wondering if he incorporated his business there to avoid taxes?  Since he is from Denmark, I suspect it would be too expensive to run a profitable company there because of labor costs.  In fact, when I look at where the big time contributors are (like 50,000-250,000) they are usually from Estonia or South Africa, etc.  I've never seen a big time contributor in the U.S.  Is it because the costs are so prohibitive?  I imagine just finding someone to help retouch could cost $20/hr in the U.S.  I wonder if you wanted to really scale up, would you have to be in a country where labor costs are super cheap or could you somehow do it in the U.S.?  Anyone have any thoughts?


tab62

« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2013, 20:42 »
+7
I thought about making my teen age daughter do all my processing for $3 per hour but all she has do is contact the child protective services and I am busted lol  :(



« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2013, 21:26 »
0
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« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 12:06 by Audi 5000 »

« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2013, 21:37 »
+1
It's pretty easy to own a company in Denmark or wherever and do shoots in South Africa and outsource image editing to India.  Where you shoot doesn't need to be connected to where you company is registered.

calcaneus10

« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2013, 22:01 »
-3
Interesting thoughts, thanks.

You wouldn't by chance have any links to Sean and Lisa's work on shutterstock would you?

« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2013, 22:25 »
0
When Yuri was on shutterstock, it said his location was South Africa.  I'm wondering if he incorporated his business there to avoid taxes? Since he is from Denmark, I suspect it would be too expensive to run a profitable company there because of labor costs.  In fact, when I look at where the big time contributors are (like 50,000-250,000) they are usually from Estonia or South Africa, etc.  I've never seen a big time contributor in the U.S.  Is it because the costs are so prohibitive?  I imagine just finding someone to help retouch could cost $20/hr in the U.S.  I wonder if you wanted to really scale up, would you have to be in a country where labor costs are super cheap or could you somehow do it in the U.S.?  Anyone have any thoughts?

Re Tax's You could always hire SS's early accounting firm.

"As a result of our Reorganization, we are subject to entity-level taxation, which will result in significantly
greater income tax expense than we have incurred historically.

Prior to our Reorganization, we operated as a New York limited liability company. As a limited
liability company, we recognized no federal and state income taxes,
as the members of the LLC, and
not the entity itself, were subject to income tax on their allocated share of our earnings. On October 5,
2012, we reorganized as a Delaware corporation.

Consequently, we are currently subject to entity-level taxation even though historically Shutterstock Images LLC did not pay U.S. federal or state income taxes. As a result, our corporate income tax rate will increase significantly as we are now subject to federal, state and city income taxes.

Page 29 SS 2012 Annual Report"
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 22:51 by gbalex »

calcaneus10

« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2013, 23:04 »
0
Yep, wish I had bought their stock during their IPO.  Doubled in under a year  :o

But even with an LLC, the tax on profits still affects the owners rather than the corporation.

The beauty in living in a country like Moldova is the tax treaty whereby you only pay 10% to the Moldavian country and none of the outrageous 30% you would pay to the U.S.

« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2013, 23:26 »
0
When Yuri was on shutterstock, it said his location was South Africa.  I'm wondering if he incorporated his business there to avoid taxes?  Since he is from Denmark, I suspect it would be too expensive to run a profitable company there because of labor costs.  In fact, when I look at where the big time contributors are (like 50,000-250,000) they are usually from Estonia or South Africa, etc.  I've never seen a big time contributor in the U.S.  Is it because the costs are so prohibitive?  I imagine just finding someone to help retouch could cost $20/hr in the U.S.  I wonder if you wanted to really scale up, would you have to be in a country where labor costs are super cheap or could you somehow do it in the U.S.?  Anyone have any thoughts?

It's true that it's difficult to expand your business in a country like Denmark. In Denmark a skilled retoucher needs at least $25/hr. At PeopleImages.com the starting salary for a retoucher is $3,8/hr. So in South Africa you get 6-7 retouchers for the price of one in Denmark.

« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2013, 23:47 »
0
Yep, wish I had bought their stock during their IPO.  Doubled in under a year  :o

But even with an LLC, the tax on profits still affects the owners rather than the corporation.

The beauty in living in a country like Moldova is the tax treaty whereby you only pay 10% to the Moldavian country and none of the outrageous 30% you would pay to the U.S.

well, if you think 30% is outrageous try some european countries where it's up to 45% and in plus the services provided are sh-ite.

« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2013, 00:45 »
0
I might be wrong but I think he actually said at the time that he was relocating for tax purposes.

« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2013, 01:13 »
0
Tax purposes are many things. Such as having a couple of companies and directing money streams here and there.
Surplus here and minus there.

And we can sit and guess as we always do when the talk is about Yuri.

« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2013, 05:49 »
0
Don't we already have a thread here discussing his $2 an hour or something African interns?

To Calcaneus, I'm not on SS.  Why?

calcaneus10

« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2013, 08:48 »
0
Sean--I just took a look at your website.  Wow!  That is impressive stuff, man.  Just quality image after quality image.  Love it!

The reason I was asking about your portfolio was because I was wondering if it was possible in the U.S. to have a portfolio of 50,000 quality images.  I look at some of the contributors on SS, and I'm wondering how . this one guy has a port of 250,000 pictures?????   And they aren't crap either...they are really professional quality.  I guess it's a factory of workers.

Sean, if you don't mind me asking, how big is your team? 

« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2013, 08:56 »
0
Sean--I just took a look at your website.  Wow!  That is impressive stuff, man.  Just quality image after quality image.  Love it!

The reason I was asking about your portfolio was because I was wondering if it was possible in the U.S. to have a portfolio of 50,000 quality images.  I look at some of the contributors on SS, and I'm wondering how . this one guy has a port of 250,000 pictures?????   And they aren't crap either...they are really professional quality.  I guess it's a factory of workers.

Sean, if you don't mind me asking, how big is your team?

Some people do it all themselves too.

calcaneus10

« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2013, 09:04 »
0
ammentorp--interesting stuff   8)

calcaneus10

« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2013, 12:28 »
0
http://www.shutterstock.com/g/belchonock/sets

Of the 150,000 some images added on SS this week, 10,000 was from the factory above.  I looked at this guy's port one month ago, and since that time he/she/they has/have added 40,000 images!!!!   Mind boggling.  Kudos to them--smart businesspeople.

« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2013, 12:39 »
0
Don't we already have a thread here discussing his $2 an hour or something African interns?

that's a lot of money anyway.

in Vietnam i've seen people doing office jobs earning 150-200$ at most and they were using computers with MS Office and all.

i guess a decent photoshop retoucher could get away with 200-250$/month all inclusive, or 3-400$ if he's really top notch.


« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2013, 11:32 »
0
Hi calcaneus10,

 Same thing goes on right inside the U.S. as well. You can run your LLC from a state that does not have state taxes and save. There are some road blocks to go around but it is done all the time.

Best,
Jonathan

« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2013, 02:22 »
+1
Hi calcaneus10,


I live in Estonia. Nordic country at Baltic sea in Europe.
About taxes. It is truth that our taxes are very frindly for company owners, but taxes for labor power are pretty high. But peoples salary is still pretty low. It means it is very good if you live and work here and can sell your production out from Estonia fro international market.
I know one very successful microstock photographer from Estonia Lev Dolgachov.
But he really lives in Estonia too. Sure he is working and shooting in several locations sometimes.
Yes, Estonia is very good place if you wish to optimize your taxes. Our taxes system is very easy and takes about 15 minutes to send a declaration in internet.  Americans usually must hire a specialist to send their annual taxes report for uncle Sam.

Lev

« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2013, 02:54 »
+16
i once mentioned it in public elsewhere, so it's not a big secret:

every single photoshoot overall production cost is usually 2000 to 3000 EUR for us. sometimes much more. rarely less. every single shoot. in "super cheap" Estonia.

if we've done our job very well, we can get it back in one year. if we make it good, it takes 2 to 3 years. if we are extremely lucky and hit jackpot, it can sometimes be 6 to 9 months.  if we fail (it means if we performed "above average"), we never get this money back. "it's ok" quality never pays back on stock nowadays. if you produce just "above average" it effectively means you're in charity business, donating designers with your money and effort.

in average, it takes 1.5 to 2 years for us to get to ground zero level for photoshoot. then we start to profit. if someone still buys it after 2 years.

it's a tough business.

so don't be illusioned, people. it's not about the location you're living in. it's about fighting for market every single day, no days off, no vacations. wherever you live. microstock is not Eldorado it used to be back in 2005. not anymore. and never will be. if you're able to deliver good-selling content, you can compete. if you're not - living in Vietnam or Zimbabwe will not help you.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 08:02 by dolgachov »

WarrenPrice

« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2013, 09:00 »
+1
i once mentioned it in public elsewhere, so it's not a big secret:

every single photoshoot overall production cost is usually 2000 to 3000 EUR for us. sometimes much more. rarely less. every single shoot. in "super cheap" Estonia.

if we've done our job very well, we can get it back in one year. if we make it good, it takes 2 to 3 years. if we are extremely lucky and hit jackpot, it can sometimes be 6 to 9 months.  if we fail (it means if we performed "above average"), we never get this money back. "it's ok" quality never pays back on stock nowadays. if you produce just "above average" it effectively means you're in charity business, donating designers with your money and effort.

in average, it takes 1.5 to 2 years for us to get to ground zero level for photoshoot. then we start to profit. if someone still buys it after 2 years.

it's a tough business.

so don't be illusioned, people. it's not about the location you're living in. it's about fighting for market every single day, no days off, no vacations. wherever you live. microstock is not Eldorado it used to be back in 2005. not anymore. and never will be. if you're able to deliver good-selling content, you can compete. if you're not - living in Vietnam or Zimbabwe will not help you.

Thank You.  That is one of the best written pieces of advice that I ever have read on this forum.  Wishing you continued success.


« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2013, 09:21 »
+1
every single photoshoot overall production cost is usually 2000 to 3000 EUR for us. sometimes much more. rarely less. every single shoot. in "super cheap" Estonia.

if I may say I believe you are spending more than you should, I don't think Sean, Lisa, Tyler and many other "people" photographers are running that kind of numbers (not even close)

I am sure you know what you are doing so I don't think microstock ain't that "tough" or you would look into other markets like RM per example

« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2013, 09:30 »
+1
So now we learn that  the produsers first get their investment back after a long time, 1-2 years are mentioned.

That at the same time, the agencies get their money in advance and pay us later, or directly postponed.

Its us contributors whe suffer all the financial burden and risk. There is a huge financial backlog out there: Contributors who never reach a payment, pictures that first earn their back after a very long time, or pictures that are so expencive to produce that they never can pay back.

And havent we always been told that - "they who take risks, should be rewarded. It is they, who develop society and bring prosperity ".

There is something wrong here!

Lev

« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2013, 10:05 »
+4
nothing is wrong. it's business. it's investing. it's money making. sentiments and sufferings do not count. money counts. net profit is the king.

back to South Africa, Estonia, Vietnam and whatever. it does not matter where you are. it only matters WHO you are. this topic is about Yuri, so let's get back to Yury.

whatever people here talk or think, the fact is: Yury is a brilliant money making machine. he was making money from Denmark, he makes money from South Africa now, and i bet you can put him to North Pole and guy will start making money right away. literally in minutes. it's not about cheap SA retouchers. it's not about tax system. it's just in his blood. he is just * brilliant in this. period.

calcaneus10

« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2013, 10:38 »
+2
Thanks for everyone's comments!  Really brings to light many things I was in the dark about. 

Dolgachov--totally agree with you on many things.  This is a business.  The whole point of my post was not to complain about the high costs in the U.S. and other European countries.  Rather, I wished to understand the business model of contributors with large volume and high quality.  I find Yuri's business model to be very intriguing, and if anything, his scale of production should be emulated---not his work. 

It's not just about taxes though.  It's about standard of living.  In the U.S., a good cup of coffee from Starbucks can cost $2 vs. in India a good cup of coffee is $.20.  Or take for example, my friend who lives in Moldova.  His apartment monthly rent costs $300--the same apartment in the U.S. costs $3000.  You can't deny the point that if you have some money saved up in the U.S., you could stay afloat longer in another country with a lower standard of living, allowing you to put in more work hours for your photography rather than trying to do this in the background of a part-time job.  It is true you need your own creative ideas...but it sure as hell helps A LOT to have lower costs, lower taxes, and lower standard of living.  That's why U.S. corporations move overseas--to increase profits.


 

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