MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => Dreamstime.com => Topic started by: red on April 26, 2012, 11:07
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Frim Achilles - see chart here - http://www.dreamstime.com/thread_31236 (http://www.dreamstime.com/thread_31236)
Tomorrow we will be releasing the new price structure, the one we've been testing the last weeks. It distributes our collection in a more uniform way, giving a better chance to new files. They seem to get better and better, thanks to our talented contributors. Due to the high volume of submissions we felt that too many great files sell at a lower price point than elsewhere and this update will address that. The higher level files have seen a more modest increase, so we don't expect too many negative effects for buyers.
In short terms, what will happen starting tomorrow is that new files will be automatically allocated to level 1, instead of level 0. All existent files that have downloads will shift with one level up. New files (or existent files) that didn't sell for more than 24 months will be level 0.
In order to keep the royalties the same, we had to decrease them one per level. Because files went up one level they will actually bring you the same royalties, with the only drawback being that level 5 files have seen a cut. I hope this to be minimal though, thanks to the decrease in the number of downloads required (25 from 50d.). We have decided to keep the same royalties structure for subscriptions, as well as for exclusive contributors (you can apply for exclusivity here ;) ).
This change expects to bring an average of 15-20% increase in contributors revenue, with higher values for new or lower sized portfolios.
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Oooops... I posted the link in the other DT prices thread.
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In order to keep the royalties the same, we had to decrease them one per level. Because files went up one level they will actually bring you the same royalties, with the only drawback being that level 5 files have seen a cut. I hope this to be minimal though, thanks to the decrease in the number of downloads required (25 from 50d.). We have decided to keep the same royalties structure for subscriptions, as well as for exclusive contributors (you can apply for exclusivity here ;) ).
Another scam. All I can say for these spin doctors is, they're all scum!
I was already woo-yaying in another thread, thinking we'll actually get a raise. I'll never ever repeat that mistake.
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....deleted because I haven't analysed this yet
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20% royalty (level 0) is a insult.
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another cut, how fast are we getting cuts these days? one day will be monthly...
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All this broad daylight robberies will make SS look better and as a consequence, stronger.
But it can't be any different in the world where the managers are payed by short term (yearly, quartely) success. Everyone just tries to bump up the profits in short term, get a couple of great bonuses and then gets . out. Unless it's a company that's to big to fail/go bankrupt and gets bailed out. It's complete madness, this system.
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This doesn't look too bad. You get a royalty cut, but it is a lot easier to make the levels.
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How utterly predictable, if tiresome, that there's another "Good news! We raised prices and you get the same as before, not more!!"
If you're cutting the contributor's share of the payout, at least have the decency to be explicit about it.
More for the agency. Woo yay!!
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Even if we take the explanation at face value, and as a whole contributors might see 15% greater revenue overall, here's my biggest problem...
Many of us have given up or greatly slowed uploading due to the ridiculous, poorly implemented crackdown on "similars." But we have older files that sell very well. Since new files will be given preference, and we have few of them, we'll be shoved aside for the new stuff, and we're likely to bear the biggest brunt of this change.
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Bottom line is, we're gonna be getting 20-45% instead of 25-50%
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It's interesting. I've been curious if deleting my non-sellers and low sellers would actually increase my revenue there. But, I was worried I might delete too many files. This actually solves some of that. They basically bumped up all my level 1 files, so all I have to worry about is the non-sellers.
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It's interesting. I've been curious if deleting my non-sellers and low sellers would actually increase my revenue there. But, I was worried I might delete too many files. This actually solves some of that. They basically bumped up all my level 1 files, so all I have to worry about is the non-sellers.
It's a sound theory. Some of my files are just turning 2 years old. I just might do that ;) . At least when it comes to similars, why would I undercut my earnings...
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Achilles wrote -...In short terms, what will happen starting tomorrow is that new files will be automatically allocated to level 1, instead of level 0....
How long exist level 0, year, a bit more? All previous years new files without downloads was on level 1. DT team understand - level 0 was a mistake, and simple return back!
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I hate the commission cut. They aren't doing well for me and every time I consider starting uploading more, they take away my incentive.
When will sites learn that they would do better by paying us a bit more commission? If I earn more, I spend more time doing microstock. If my commission is cut, I spend more time doing other work.
I'm also sick of the way sites try to make commission cuts look like a good thing. I lose respect when they try to claim this will make us more money. It never has in the past, the only site making me more money is the one that hasn't hiked prices and slashed commissions, Shutterstock.
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Bottom line is, we're gonna be getting 20-45% instead of 25-50%
We're getting something up the bottom line is more accurate!!!...
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bottom line is at the end of the annoucement! enjoy ;D ;D ;D
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It's interesting. I've been curious if deleting my non-sellers and low sellers would actually increase my revenue there. But, I was worried I might delete too many files. This actually solves some of that. They basically bumped up all my level 1 files, so all I have to worry about is the non-sellers.
I deleted a lot once and my earnings went down quite a bit. My portfolio is getting smaller and smaller there but my earnings aren't improving. It might help DT to get rid of low sellers but I don't think it helps contributors.
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Bottom line is, we're gonna be getting 20-45% instead of 25-50%
We're getting something up the bottom line is more accurate!!!...
Indeed! (I've made a small adjustment to your quote, just to make it clear to everyone;)
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Achilles wrote -...In short terms, what will happen starting tomorrow is that new files will be automatically allocated to level 1, instead of level 0....
How long exist level 0, year, a bit more? All previous years new files without downloads was on level 1. DT team understand - level 0 was a mistake, and simple return back!
And take another 20% off of our earnings at the same time ;)
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How utterly predictable, if tiresome, that there's another "Good news! We raised prices and you get the same as before, not more!!"
If you're cutting the contributor's share of the payout, at least have the decency to be explicit about it.
More for the agency. Woo yay!!
Perfectly summed up.
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^^What about L5?
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^^What about L5?
Also level 5
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^^What about L5?
Also level 5
Yes, I can see it now
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numbers: Pay attention to contributors commissions change vs. Agency commissions change.
Basically for level 1 and 2 they shared some, although agency raise was much bigger.
For level 3 and 4 (especially L and XL) they took almost all price increase to themselves
Interesting. Thanks for the info. I would say this doesn't account for level jumps though. My level 1 images became level 2 images and my level 3 and above images tripled in quantity. I think some of the people that were most hurt by this were their successful contributors with lots of level 5 images. Strange that successful contributors have been targets lately by many agencies.
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20% royalty (level 0) is a insult.
It's a lot better than 12% at FT or 14% at iS.
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Even if we take the explanation at face value, and as a whole contributors might see 15% greater revenue overall, here's my biggest problem...
Many of us have given up or greatly slowed uploading due to the ridiculous, poorly implemented crackdown on "similars." But we have older files that sell very well. Since new files will be given preference, and we have few of them, we'll be shoved aside for the new stuff, and we're likely to bear the biggest brunt of this change.
Many of the sites are already utilizing search engines to take cream off the top. When sites openly do both, it is time to look at other options.
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numbers: Pay attention to contributors commissions change vs. Agency commissions change.
Basically for level 1 and 2 they shared some, although agency raise was much bigger.
For level 3 and 4 (especially L and XL) they took almost all price increase to themselves
Interesting. Thanks for the info. I would say this doesn't account for level jumps though. My level 1 images became level 2 images and my level 3 and above images tripled in quantity. I think some of the people that were most hurt by this were their successful contributors with lots of level 5 images. Strange that successful contributors have been targets lately by many agencies.
Please pay attention,
That table takes account all this
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Thanks for the chart XST, it is very informative.
I suppose I should be more bothered about the cut in the commission rate but I am glad that, unlike other agencies, it shouldn't lead to a loss in earnings = unless the higher prices deter buyers, of course.
I hope they will put most of the extra cash they are going to get into promoting the site and bringing in more sales. That is, after all, a large part of what we are paying them for.
numbers: Pay attention to contributors commissions change vs. Agency commissions change.
Basically for level 1 and 2 they shared some, although agency raise was much bigger.
For level 3 and 4 (especially L and XL) they took almost all price increase to themselves
([url]http://xxxstockpics.com/tmp/dreamsprice.jpg[/url])
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So I have no level 1 images (haven't uploaded at all this month) tons of level 0 and the rest are 2-5. On the chart on the thread the pricing is the same from last year to this year but funny they don't show our commission from last year and the change for this year.
Wonder why? ::)
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20% royalty (level 0) is a insult.
It's a lot better than 12% at FT or 14% at iS.
Just because others make bigger mistakes doesn`t justify anything
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20% royalty (level 0) is a insult.
It's a lot better than 12% at FT or 14% at iS.
Just because others make bigger mistakes doesn`t justify anything
sure but FT paying $$ instead of EUR is a very nice one too.. it just keeps getting better.. DT plan is incredible, they want to make more money and hardcore stuff, will see how it goes..
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Not so bad! so you lose a bit in one end and gain more in the other. Thats what business is all about, isnt it. Compromizes.
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For some reason I can't see that chart any more.
It is worth bearing in mind that the 20% royalty level depends on the image, not on the contributor, unlike most sites where you are on a fixed rate. Your actual percentage will depend on the ratio of different image levels that you sell and will move around from day to day but will be well above 20% overall for established contributors.
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All this broad daylight robberies will make SS look better and as a consequence, stronger.
I thought I'd read that SS has raised prices to buyers, but kept the cents to contributors the same?
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Not so bad! so you lose a bit in one end and gain more in the other. Thats what business is all about, isnt it. Compromizes.
There's no compromise, it's the same old raise prices cut commissions trick. It doesn't give me any hope for the future. What happens next year? The same again? We end up with tiny commission percentages and less sales. Shutterstock get even more buyers that don't like paying the higher prices.
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All this broad daylight robberies will make SS look better and as a consequence, stronger.
I thought I'd read that SS has raised prices to buyers, but kept the cents to contributors the same?
I must have missed that, if it in fact happened. Can you post a link to that thread (I doubt there was an announcement etc)?
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Shutterstock has been at $249 a month for subscriptions since 2008 (I went to look at the wayback machine for March each year as that was typically when price increases happened). Before that it was $199 a month. The way it typically worked was that SS would increase the prices for buyers and then a month or two later (after it figured out how buyers responded) it would raise contributor earnings.
They haven't raised subscription prices, although they have added on demand and single sales.
I think the complaining has been about the lack of a raise, not about taking a raise themselves and passing on only a little to contributors. The closest they came to that was when the introduced extended licenses. Initially you had to buy a large-ish quantity and the contributor payout was set on that basis. Then they later added the ability to buy a smaller quantity of extended licenses - at a higher price - but contributors got a flat amount regardless. In the beginning I think it was $20 per extended license.
Perhaps I missed something during the time I was exclusive, but I don't think SS has ever pulled the kind of crap that all the other agencies have (of passing on only a small portion of a buyer price increase and suggesting we should be happy because we're getting more money than before).
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I don't think SS has ever pulled the kind of crap that all the other agencies have (of passing on only a small portion of a buyer price increase and suggesting we should be happy because we're getting more money than before).
Or that we should be happy because money doesn't make us happy ;)
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My calculations were wrong.
My apologies to DT.
There is no lowering of our share
for example if you had image of level 1. It got 30%. Now this image become Level 2.
You are getting 30% for level 2 under new system.
The only share cut is for images that haven't sold for 24 months. and images with over 25 downloads
(http://xxxstockpics.com/tmp/dtprice.jpg)
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^^aren't the L5 commission changes negative (there's no - in the % change)
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I think the complaining has been about the lack of a raise, not about taking a raise themselves and passing on only a little to contributors. The closest they came to that was when the introduced extended licenses. Initially you had to buy a large-ish quantity and the contributor payout was set on that basis. Then they later added the ability to buy a smaller quantity of extended licenses - at a higher price - but contributors got a flat amount regardless. In the beginning I think it was $20 per extended license.
Yeah, I think that was it.
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I think the complaining has been about the lack of a raise, not about taking a raise themselves and passing on only a little to contributors. The closest they came to that was when the introduced extended licenses. Initially you had to buy a large-ish quantity and the contributor payout was set on that basis. Then they later added the ability to buy a smaller quantity of extended licenses - at a higher price - but contributors got a flat amount regardless. In the beginning I think it was $20 per extended license.
Yeah, I think that was it.
Me too ;) . No raises, but no cuts either. It doesn't make them the good guys, but competition's actions are making them (look good/the good guys)...SS is the best of what we've got (indies).
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20% royalty (level 0) is a insult.
At least it is one you can avoid - by deleting any image with no sales after two years...
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DT is a middle tier site for me and time will tell if this new price structure works. Change is not always bad.
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I think the complaining has been about the lack of a raise, not about taking a raise themselves and passing on only a little to contributors. The closest they came to that was when the introduced extended licenses. Initially you had to buy a large-ish quantity and the contributor payout was set on that basis. Then they later added the ability to buy a smaller quantity of extended licenses - at a higher price - but contributors got a flat amount regardless. In the beginning I think it was $20 per extended license.
Yeah, I think that was it.
Me too ;) . No raises, but no cuts either. It doesn't make them the good guys, but competition's actions are making them (look good/the good guys)...SS is the best of what we've got (indies).
When royalties do not keep up with annual inflation, it is a calculated cut. No raise since 2008 ='s a 10% pay cut.
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I think the complaining has been about the lack of a raise, not about taking a raise themselves and passing on only a little to contributors. The closest they came to that was when the introduced extended licenses. Initially you had to buy a large-ish quantity and the contributor payout was set on that basis. Then they later added the ability to buy a smaller quantity of extended licenses - at a higher price - but contributors got a flat amount regardless. In the beginning I think it was $20 per extended license.
Yeah, I think that was it.
Me too ;) . No raises, but no cuts either. It doesn't make them the good guys, but competition's actions are making them (look good/the good guys)...SS is the best of what we've got (indies).
When royalties do not keep up with annual inflation, it is a calculated cut. No raise since 2008 ='s a 10% pay cut.
+1
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Very true re. SS and no pay rises
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DT is a middle tier site for me and time will tell if this new price structure works. Change is not always bad.
I have yet to see a commission cut that has worked out well for me. It also takes away any long term ambitions I might have with microstock. Until sites state they have stopped lowering commission percentages, I'm working on other things.
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I think Achilles is right. The average contributor is a small contributor and I think most of us should gain if download numbers don't fall. I now have virtually no level 0 files, so for a recent upload with no sales will get a smaller % of 3 times the price, the bar for level 5 is lowered and am struggling to see a downside unless sales totally tank. Personally, I tend to look at the $ gained rather than the %.
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when all is said and done - they are all the same
looking out for the companys bottom line, at the expense of those who are the foundation that the company is making money from
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when all is said and done - they are all the same
looking out for the companys bottom line, at the expense of those who are the foundation that the company is making money from
Yup. That's exactly right.
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When royalties do not keep up with annual inflation, it is a calculated cut. No raise since 2008 ='s a 10% pay cut.
But they haven't raised prices during that time either.
So the buyer gets a price cut (if you wish to call stable prices in an era of low inflation a price cut) and we take a share of that along with SS. The issue is that in SS's case, by and large, the agency and contributor are rising and falling together. At all the other agencies, their pricing changes bring up the agency income the most by taking more from the buyer and giving a smaller share to the contributor.
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Just got $3.10 for an extra small on DT which is exactly $3.01 more than for a recent sale at IS. The same sale would fetch $1.07 on SS, $0.23 on FT and around $0.50 on 123. Still not seeing much grounds for complaint ???
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Just got $3.10 for an extra small on DT which is exactly $3.01 more than for a recent sale at IS. The same sale would fetch $1.07 on SS, $0.23 on FT and around $0.50 on 123. Still not seeing much grounds for complaint ???
Great, give them some more ideas ::)
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I'm seeing my RPD increasing, so I think I may have gone off on the wrong track with my original post (now deleted). This could actually make a positive difference for me.
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So what is conclusion?
Better or worse?
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My calculations were wrong.
My apologies to DT.
There is no lowering of our share
for example if you had image of level 1. It got 30%. Now this image become Level 2.
You are getting 30% for level 2 under new system.
The only share cut is for images that haven't sold for 24 months. and images with over 25 downloads
([url]http://xxxstockpics.com/tmp/dtprice.jpg[/url])
You should edit it again, all old commission percentages are wrong. They were all +5% (L1 was 30%, L5 was 50% etc)
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His figures are correct and line up with mine, however they are incomplete. He has left out details for the split change in level 0 and the change for level 5. The change is positive for the most part as we get an increase in revenue for most levels. However I am concerned that the massive increase in price will either drive buyers away or push them to switch to purchasing subscription plans. We'll have to wait and see I guess.
Wut, you're only considering the change in commissions per level without taking into account that our images have been bumped up a level. Although the commissions have changed for each level, it evens out because of the bump up. For instance, an image with 4-9 downloads in the old structure was a level 2 and we received 35% commission for it. Now it has been bumped up to a level 3 which still gives us 35% commission.
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However I am concerned that the massive increase in price will either drive buyers away or push them to switch to purchasing subscription plans. We'll have to wait and see I guess.
Looking at my March vs April. My RPD is about double, my downloads are about half and my earnings are about the same. So, it will be interesting to see if that is common or not.
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Looking at my March vs April. My RPD is about double, my downloads are about half and my earnings are about the same. So, it will be interesting to see if that is common or not.
April's not over yet but it's close enough. FYI, here are my March vs April stats:
Revenue: -48%
Downloads: -54%
RPD: +13%
Would be great if others chimed in with their stats.
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So what is conclusion?
Better or worse?
For me, worse. I can't predict the effect of the pricing changes, but the decision and changes to favor newer images and smaller ports hurts me. I have an old and, for vectors, a relatively large port. I see my DT sales falling significantly.
I guess I should submit a lot of new images, but DT's bizarre and unfair rejections of images which are accepted and sell well everywhere else make that unlikely.
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Wut, you're only considering the change in commissions per level without taking into account that our images have been bumped up a level. Although the commissions have changed for each level, it evens out because of the bump up. For instance, an image with 4-9 downloads in the old structure was a level 2 and we received 35% commission for it. Now it has been bumped up to a level 3 which still gives us 35% commission.
I don't have to account for anything. Level percentage is fixed. And L1 is not 30% anymore, it's 25%. But yes, your images get bumped up a level and the chart states that. The charts should state clear facts. Commission change is calculated anyway, so there's no need to artifically bump up the percentages. That's all I wanted to say. The correct percentages should be included, or else it doesn't make any sense and also, more importantly, cut calculations are wrong if you use the wrong commission percentage. I see you corrected his mistake, so your chart looks right (but I didn't check it)
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we have no idea if this is going to be good or bad but one thing we know for sure, royalties will never be over 20% again.. once your boss cuts your salary he won´t raise it, thats why employeers give bonus/prizes and all that crap, making sure they wont raise the fixed part..
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April's not over yet but it's close enough. FYI, here are my March vs April stats:
Revenue: -48%
Downloads: -54%
RPD: +13%
Would be great if others chimed in with their stats.
My sales at DT, projected total for April, 2012:
down 11% from March 2012
down 14% from February, 2012
RPD +30% above my lifetime average at DT
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Given that the last couple of weeks had a searching issue for relevancy (defaulted to best seller for a while) and they were playing with the new methods, presumably by doing some of each and comparing, I think that comparing March to April will be totally useless. Add to that the fact that buyers were likely unaware of pricing changes and I think we'll need a few months to really assess this change in pricing.
One thing no one is mentioning is that subscriptions have remained 'unchanged' - but given the level boost it means that a lot more images will hit the 2x or 3x pricing, which should provide a boost to RPD from subs.
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Comparing Mar 1 - 26 to Apr 1 - 26:
Sales: Down about 10%
RPD: Up about 30%
Earnings: Up about 10%
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Given that the last couple of weeks had a searching issue for relevancy (defaulted to best seller for a while) and they were playing with the new methods, presumably by doing some of each and comparing, I think that comparing March to April will be totally useless. Add to that the fact that buyers were likely unaware of pricing changes and I think we'll need a few months to really assess this change in pricing.
One thing no one is mentioning is that subscriptions have remained 'unchanged' - but given the level boost it means that a lot more images will hit the 2x or 3x pricing, which should provide a boost to RPD from subs.
It will be interesting to observe the long term changes that will occur over time because of the not so apparent adaptations they have made to the search! Those changes would have been easier to observe without the concurrent pricing changes.
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Serban (Achilles) makes a good point.
... Quote ... The discrepancies you may have seen in the past days were due to the previous tests we did. Those customers continued to use the new system of pricing.
This is not that complicated, almost everything that was already selling is now selling at a higher price (difference is bigger for small files and almost inexistent for higher ones) AND royalties are split the same.
Let me try again, it seems my first post wasn't clear enough.
Old level 0 is now split into:
- level 0 - gives you 5% less but these are files that didn't sell in 2 years. And if they sell it's only for the first download that you take a cut (price is the same). Note that after first download they jump straight at level 2.
- level 1 - these were level 0 before and same royalties (25%) are awarded now, at higher price
Old level 1 is now level 2 - same royalties as before, higher price
Old level 2 is now level 3 - same royalties as before, higher price
Old level 3 is now level 4 - same royalties as before, higher price
Old level 4 is now level 5 - same royalties as before, higher price
Old level 5 remains level 5 but has lower royalties (5% less), for the same price.
The only exceptions are the past level 5 and part of the past level 0. As you can see the vast majority of files still have the same royalties but sell at higher price. The revenue for almost all of them is split as before.
Dreamstime still rewards 60% for its exclusive contributors, 8 years after its inception. They never took a hit, even though the margin for marketing is lower and it's difficult to compete. But at least we know we have exclusive content and commited contributors. If you worry about your royalties you should stop using agencies that provide low percentages or ask them to raise them for you. As long as you contribute there don't expect us to keep royalties more than theirs because it would be impossible to compete. ...end quote
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Serban (Achilles) makes a good point.
If you worry about your royalties you should stop using agencies that provide low percentages or ask them to raise them for you. As long as you contribute there don't expect us to keep royalties more than theirs because it would be impossible to compete.
You could probably make the same argument about pricing and subs too.
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Serban (Achilles) makes a good point.
... Quote ... If you worry about your royalties you should stop using agencies that provide low percentages or ask them to raise them for you. As long as you contribute there don't expect us to keep royalties more than theirs because it would be impossible to compete. ...end quote
That's a convenient excuse isn't it. So the continual grab goes to helping make DT number 1. I don't think so some how. I'm sure they don't put nearly enough of their cut into expanding their business.
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Serban (Achilles) makes a good point.
If you worry about your royalties you should stop using agencies that provide low percentages or ask them to raise them for you. As long as you contribute there don't expect us to keep royalties more than theirs because it would be impossible to compete.
Does that mean I can ask Serban to raise my royalty rates?
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Serban (Achilles) makes a good point.
If you worry about your royalties you should stop using agencies that provide low percentages or ask them to raise them for you. As long as you contribute there don't expect us to keep royalties more than theirs because it would be impossible to compete.
Does that mean I can ask Serban to raise my royalty rates?
;D ;D
Of course you can.
Maybe a mass mail in (I can't post in the forum) for a raise?
;D
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I don't see any valid reason to drop the level 0 and level 5 commission %. In fact the 10% drop to level 5 is going to have a larger and larger effect over time as more images reach that level. Also when they next drop percentages it won't look like such a big drop (2 small drops doesn't seem so bad). (hopefully this won't happen, but following the trends there it is only a matter of time).
My RPD is up a lot, but my sales numbers are down. I agree that this month is too much of a mess to make valid comparisons. With DT's first big commission drop it took about a year before my income got back to where it was before the drop.
I'll have to ask Serban to up my rates, since I think that 20% is the lowest of all the sites I actually contribute to now.
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impossible to compete WITH WHAT? royalties???? I am missing something for sure.. aren´t they suppose to compete in PRICING??
I really hoped I haven´t read that paragraph, it wasn´t really needed..
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we have no idea if this is going to be good or bad but one thing we know for sure, royalties will never be over 20% again.. once your boss cuts your salary he won´t raise it, thats why employeers give bonus/prizes and all that crap, making sure they wont raise the fixed part..
Exactly!
Just one thing can change that...
A new agency completely in hands of us, stockers... As owners and as contributors...
Then we will get whole amount, usual royalties and also through "earnings per share" at the end of a year, after all costs.... Then rules can be changed...
For now, we can not have any impact on the distribution of earnings, or some real insight into the marketing costs which they justify usual destruction of our part of earnings, whole the time...
But, with our greed they hold our balls in their hands....
P.S.
Serban was right about the low cost agencies, if we are talking about pricing....
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there are many people doing stock that know very well SEO etc etc go ahead guys, we will support and help funding it, if there is anybody with that idea please create a topic and lets all dream and perhaps do something
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Serban (Achilles) makes a good point.
If you worry about your royalties you should stop using agencies that provide low percentages or ask them to raise them for you. As long as you contribute there don't expect us to keep royalties more than theirs because it would be impossible to compete.
Does that mean I can ask Serban to raise my royalty rates?
Well done for getting on their forum and asking for a raise. I salute you, Lol!
Everyone, get on this forum and politely ask for a raise. No harm in asking is there? :)
http://www.dreamstime.com/forumm_31236_pg5 (http://www.dreamstime.com/forumm_31236_pg5)
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This is not that complicated, almost everything that was already selling is now selling at a higher price (difference is bigger for small files and almost inexistent for higher ones) AND royalties are split the same.
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If you worry about your royalties you should stop using agencies that provide low percentages or ask them to raise them for you. As long as you contribute there don't expect us to keep royalties more than theirs because it would be impossible to compete. .[/i]..end quote
Lol, that's convenient.
Raise prices so buyers pay more and buy less, but you get less percent. So your income goes down on fewer sales.
But no need to worry about your royalties.
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Blaming contributors for DT taking a bigger share of the total is just lovely - it'd be funny if I weren't a contributor.
Why do we not hear anything about DT doing something to raise itself from the bottom of the top tier agencies, a position it has been very comfortably holding for years? Dicking around with the prices and royalties won't bring in more buyers or increase the amount current buyers spend. If they had something to say about growing the business overall, I'd be interested to hear it. Until then I await news of a new 37 level pricing system with 14 buyer discount programs and a iPhone/Android app to help buyers figure out what they're actually paying...
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Well done for getting on their forum and asking for a raise. I salute you, Lol!
Everyone, get on this forum and politely ask for a raise. No harm in asking is there? :)
[url]http://www.dreamstime.com/forumm_31236_pg5[/url] ([url]http://www.dreamstime.com/forumm_31236_pg5[/url])
I thought it was pretty funny. In truth though, I agree with Serban, and I have been trying to give more support to the better paying agencies for the last year. The problem is there aren't many options. You're probably better off making your own than trying to find an equitable partner or getting an existing one to improve conditions.
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Especially for Serban ...
You see, I tried to be positive and nobody believes me.
Your reputation for expertise in "spinning" is far stronger than my reputation for being a DT misfit,. :P
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If you worry about your royalties you should stop using agencies that provide low percentages....
That's what I'm doing. I'm spending a lot more time producing images for alamy, who pay 60% non-exclusive. I've had enough of working only with microstock, until sites realise that cutting my earnings demotivates me and lowers the amount of money I make for them.
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Sales may go down as a result of higher prices but the upside is that the company is still being run by the guy who had the vision to start it and companies like this tend to have more going for them than those that have been swallowed and now run by corporate bean counters - the fact that, uniquely among the big 4, DT is offering PNG, is likely to attract buyers.
On the royalty front, you have to look at this in the context of what is out there. Unless someone’s entire port is at the top level, this is an effective pay rise for most people. At the same time it increases the benefit of being exclusive which is good for the business. Again I have to compare a > $3 (40%) to a < $0.10 (15%) return for the same size image sale. Yeah, there’s an element of “taketh away” about this but there’s also an element of “giveth” and that does not seem to happen that often in this business.
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If you worry about your royalties you should stop using agencies that provide low percentages or ask them to raise them for you. As long as you contribute there don't expect us to keep royalties more than theirs because it would be impossible to compete. .[/i]..end quote
This comment from Serban is insulting our intelligence and it's very disappointing. He can't use the excuse of competing while at the same time raising prices for buyers. This level increase won't bring in more buyers and probably will deter them. This is a terrible and arrogant comment to make and it will lose him a lot of respect, both from buyers and contributors.
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If you worry about your royalties you should stop using agencies that provide low percentages or ask them to raise them for you. As long as you contribute there don't expect us to keep royalties more than theirs because it would be impossible to compete. .[/i]..end quote
This comment from Serban is insulting our intelligence and it's very disappointing. He can't use the excuse of competing while at the same time raising prices for buyers. This level increase won't bring in more buyers and probably will deter them. This is a terrible and arrogant comment to make and it will lose him a lot of respect, both from buyers and contributors.
it is absurd.. competing with other agencies? competing royalties? seriously thats not the agency job, their job is getting us buyers.. they can compete on the pricing but never lowering royalties because other have.. thats not a business strategy it is pure greed if done in that way
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Perhaps he means he needs more money to compete with the other sites wealthy owners lifestyles :) That's all I see this is for, to make a lot more money for the owners of DT by taking another slice from contributors. The costs of running sites looks like it has been coming down. Advertising is cheaper than it was a few years ago and they don't seem to be spending more on marketing. They seemed to spend more a few years ago, when lots of people didn't know about them. Most of the costs of running an internet site seem to of reduced over the years. It might cost more to host their huge libraries of images but those costs seem to reduce every year and a bigger library should bring more sales. I don't think they pay reviewers more than they used to.
It seems obvious where all the money from our commission cuts is going. I would have more respect if sites were honest with us and didn't try to make it look like they had no choice but to cut commissions. If they want to keep more of their profits, that's their choice but it doesn't make me want to work harder for them.
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Yesterday (the day the changes rolled out) my sales started out very strong, then I stopped seeing numbers in the early afternoon. On Saturday morning, I still see no sales since my early afternoon sales yesterday. Is this because reporting is down due to the changes being implemented, or has my impact from these changes meant I no longer get ANY sales?
Have you seen any sales reported since yesterday (Fri) afternoon?
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Have you seen any sales reported since yesterday (Fri) afternoon?
No.
As for the general issue of sites lining their pockets, I'm afraid we are very much in the position of farmers supplying the huge supermarket chains: the producer no longer has any clout and the distributor takes advantage of that. It's capitalism.
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I think the complaining has been about the lack of a raise, not about taking a raise themselves and passing on only a little to contributors. The closest they came to that was when the introduced extended licenses. Initially you had to buy a large-ish quantity and the contributor payout was set on that basis. Then they later added the ability to buy a smaller quantity of extended licenses - at a higher price - but contributors got a flat amount regardless. In the beginning I think it was $20 per extended license.
Yeah, I think that was it.
Me too ;) . No raises, but no cuts either. It doesn't make them the good guys, but competition's actions are making them (look good/the good guys)...SS is the best of what we've got (indies).
True, butt SS is still better than most because that same logis can be said of those agencies who have cut our commissions. So cut commissions + inflation = bend over and grab your ankles and say, "thank you sir may I have another"
When royalties do not keep up with annual inflation, it is a calculated cut. No raise since 2008 ='s a 10% pay cut.
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Yesterday (the day the changes rolled out) my sales started out very strong, then I stopped seeing numbers in the early afternoon. On Saturday morning, I still see no sales since my early afternoon sales yesterday. Is this because reporting is down due to the changes being implemented, or has my impact from these changes meant I no longer get ANY sales?
Have you seen any sales reported since yesterday (Fri) afternoon?
No. In fact, I didn't see any sales yesterday at all. Not typical and very disturbing.
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Yesterday (the day the changes rolled out) my sales started out very strong, then I stopped seeing numbers in the early afternoon. On Saturday morning, I still see no sales since my early afternoon sales yesterday. Is this because reporting is down due to the changes being implemented, or has my impact from these changes meant I no longer get ANY sales?
Have you seen any sales reported since yesterday (Fri) afternoon?
UPDATE: I was hoping this was just a lag... that as today went on I would watch DT report a continuation of my sales from yesterday, with a bunch more being reported before today's numbers start showing up, but instead I have just seen a single sale reported for today. This suggests that I have had no downloads from mid-day yesterday to early this morning. That is a disastrous shift that I can only assume is due to the changes DT rolled out yesterday. Anyone else see virtually no sales on DT for the second half of yesterday?
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Yesterday (the day the changes rolled out) my sales started out very strong, then I stopped seeing numbers in the early afternoon. On Saturday morning, I still see no sales since my early afternoon sales yesterday. Is this because reporting is down due to the changes being implemented, or has my impact from these changes meant I no longer get ANY sales?
Have you seen any sales reported since yesterday (Fri) afternoon?
I have all my numbers from yesterday, I think, because I have one from today, so I assume that means all of yesterday is in. Very low day though.
Less than half a typical weekday. Wonder if something has been done with the search engine? I would think it's too early to see buyer resistance to the pricing yet.
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I can't respond in the DT forum (I'm banned) so thought I would respond to this quote from the DT forum:
Keeping at level 0 just the 2 years unsold files is a smart thing. 2 years is half way through to 4 years when the files get deleted or even worse transfered to the free area. So now at the half way distance, DT is kind of creating a new category, let's call it half dead photos. So these half dead photos are offered at a discount. If there is a buyer, then the photo gets an infusion of new life, and is "saved" taking its rightful place between the living photos.
I like that.
I've just gone thru and deleted all my 2-year old images with no sales -- Level Zero. One of those Level Zero images just sold for $28 on Shutterstock.
Glad the buyer didn't find that Level Zero on DT. :o :P
ED: Of course, most of this ridiculous philosophy is coming from the DT Exclusives. ::)
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Unusually slow day for me yesterday as well. About a third or less than a normal Friday and nothing at all today so far. My last dl was bought close to midnight so not much chance of anymore comning through for yesterday.
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My last sale at DT was just after noon on Friday - and Friday was a weak day (it's often the slowest weekday as Asia/Pacific is already having a weekend). Nada so far today.
On Tuesday, I thought things might be returning to "normal" after their search engine problems, but sales Wednesday were half of Tuesdays; Thursday had a grand total of 1 sale and Friday was just 4 subscription sales.
For the month so far, downloads are down 30% on last month and $$ are down 34% (by contrast, SS sales are so far down 15% over march and IS is (a) in first place this month and last and (b) April is up over a strong March).
So other than a bunch of happy DT exclusives (and I'm sorry, but anyone who is exclusive at DT just isn't interested in making money out of their stock portfolio) I can't see anything good about the recent changes at DT.
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I'm sorry, but anyone who is exclusive at DT just isn't interested in making money out of their stock portfolio
so true..
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Sometimes DT was the second best microstock site, today it is on 4-th place, really middle tier. Saving the site DT makes one mistake after another and are going down more and more. When it will be completely sunk, interesting, what will do all these ''happy exclusives'', begin from zero on other sites?
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My last sale at DT was just after noon on Friday - and Friday was a weak day (it's often the slowest weekday as Asia/Pacific is already having a weekend). Nada so far today.
Remember it's May Day in Europe - big holiday, lots of people taking time off. As I remember, DT always suffers more than the other sites at May Day.
For the month so far, downloads are down 30% on last month and $$ are down 34% (by contrast, SS sales are so far down 15% over march and IS is (a) in first place this month and last and (b) April is up over a strong March).
Interesting. I have April way down after a very poor March. Maybe it's time to go Indie :)
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"We are excited to announce that we are - in a very complicated, back-handed, highly obfuscated way - cutting your commissions once again, while raising prices to buyers. Because we can. We'd like to thank our contributors for continuing to give us even more photos, of even higher quality, in spite of everything."
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I'm sorry, but anyone who is exclusive at DT just isn't interested in making money out of their stock portfolio
so true..
Agree too.
I hate dt's spin of how contributors will benefit from their moves. Each move gives a greater share to them. Remember how they explained about why contributors now pay towards referrals, something like it was always supposed to be like that, but we've just got around to implementing it. Give me a break! Yesterday, I took the dt ad. banner off my site after more than 3 years, time to stop supporting guys like these.
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Have you seen any sales reported since yesterday (Fri) afternoon?
No.
As for the general issue of sites lining their pockets, I'm afraid we are very much in the position of farmers supplying the huge supermarket chains: the producer no longer has any clout and the distributor takes advantage of that. It's capitalism.
Exactly why we are seeing more and more farmers markets, co ops and farmers selling product direct to the public from their own web sites.
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I'm sorry, but anyone who is exclusive at DT just isn't interested in making money out of their stock portfolio
so true..
+1. I have read those DT blog posts by DT exclusives about the joys of exclusivity. That's obviously cool with them and I don't mind them not coming to SS or the other micros either. There's enough stiff competition as it is. :P
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So are they only interested in keeping the exclusives happy and tossing the rest of us to the wolves or what?
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So are they only interested in keeping the exclusives happy and tossing the rest of us to the wolves or what?
That's the direction that istock took. There's just too many of us for them to care what we think, so long as they don't upset their exclusives, that's all that matters. I don't know how important it is for buyers to buy from sites with an exclusive collection. I mean what difference does it make, even exclusive images are bought multiple times and the images are no better or worse than non exclusive material.
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So are they only interested in keeping the exclusives happy and tossing the rest of us to the wolves or what?
I don't think Dreamstime is tossing anyone to the wolves. I have never seen the type of favoritism toward exclusives and disregard for independents there that seems to be common now on Istock.
What is the percentage of exclusives on DT? I think only a tiny fraction. They rely on the rest of us for the vast majority of their library. Plus they allow exclusive images, so if you want to enjoy some of the benefits of exclusivity there, you can try adding a few.
It remains to be seen how we will all be affected incomewise by these changes. I don't think it's time to sound the alarm bells just yet.
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They probably don't care what the non-exclusives are saying about things because in the grand scheme we don't matter eventhough there are more of us non-exclusives than exclusives. And then they get offended with non ones are asking for a raise which I believe shouldn't have been sneered at or answered the way that it was. Snarky and uncalled for.
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So are they only interested in keeping the exclusives happy and tossing the rest of us to the wolves or what?
I don't feel tossed to the wolves either. I actually think this change is an improvement. It's still down from getting the flat 50% we used to get, but it's better than the old level system.
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I think I'm just having a hard time understanding the level changes and pricing changes or whatever changes. You could throw all the charts at me you like but none of it makes sense.
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I think I'm just having a hard time understanding the level changes and pricing changes or whatever changes. You could throw all the charts at me you like but none of it makes sense.
I have to believe that's in some sense deliberate. These guys are making their pricing and commission structures mind-bogglingly complicated, in part to break down the commission model itself, and destroy any sense we might have of what we're "entitled" to as payment.
I have to believe that some of IS's customers finally said - forget it, we don't have time to figure out this system, time to shop elsewhere for that reason alone. DT is not far behind. To be honest, I didn't even try to understand the OP or the new scheme. These days I just assume that the bottom line to any "exciting changes" is that payments to photographers go down.
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As a non-exclusive, I don't feel like my throat's been cut from this move. Overall, the changes are pretty fair. For consistency, and to keep us happy, what I'd like to see is a new level 6 introduced, maybe on downloads greater than 100.
I'm sitting on the fence about this change, not so much because of the commission changes, but moreso because of the price rises. I'm concerned about the effect it will have on buyers. On the other hand, if buyers don't bolt to other sites, this could have a positive effect on the entire microstock industry if other agents take advantage of the move and raise their own prices. We need to raise prices to keep up with inflation.
I'm not sure how things will play out so I don't just yet know whether I should be congratulating DT on making such a strong bold move, or whether I should be worried about it. Only time will tell.
I also don't believe DT treats non-exclusives any worse than they do exclusives, however the exclusives in the forum sicken me. It's difficult to debate anything there because exclusives will pounce on any crappy issue and make it smell like roses. It's beyond frustrating.
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This move certainly isn't as harmful to contributors as the first huge commission drop. In fact overall it might still be positive even if it is more positive for DT.
Or maybe it will push buyers to subs and to other sites. They shouldn't have dropped the level 5 commissions though, or they should have at least put in a level 5.5 where level 5 used to be with 50% commissions.
My sales at DT tend to be very bimodal with sales in the .35 and under level and sales in the 3$ and up level. Sure there are sales in between, but it seems most of them are either really low or fairly high. I expect this move to make things even more so.
I also agree that DT hasn't really stabbed independents in the eye like IS does, but they do appear to be slowly moving that direction. I also agree that some of the stuff in their forum is pretty nauseating.
If customers don't appear to be leaving then maybe it will be time for a round of price raises at all the sites - unfortunately probably coinciding with a round of commission drops, but I hope not.
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I'm just going to do what I usually do and wait to see how things unfold over time. The initial test phase seems to have brought in some extra earnings, so I'm not unhappy about it at this stage.
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Don't know if it is just coincidence but yesterday I sold 8 images, 6 had never sold before and the other 2 had only sold once. Sort of felt like someone stirred the pot and my stuff floated up out of oblivion.
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Don't know if it is just coincidence but yesterday I sold 8 images, 6 had never sold before and the other 2 had only sold once. Sort of felt like someone stirred the pot and my stuff floated up out of oblivion.
Same here. Old stuff selling. Got a $5.80 DL today on a shot that is 5 years old and didn't sell much.
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I think the theory that the change will hurt sellers with lots of level 5 images is holding true. It looks like the DT shift is proving to be a disaster for me. For the last few days, DT has been in the basement compared to other sites... I've been doing better at 123 and CanStockPhoto.
How have the DT big selling contributors been faring?
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I think the theory that the change will hurt sellers with lots of level 5 images is holding true. It looks like the DT shift is proving to be a disaster for me. For the last few days, DT has been in the basement compared to other sites... I've been doing better at 123 and CanStockPhoto.
How have the DT big selling contributors been faring?
It's been dreadful for me. No sales from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning and not much since. Still. it is the weekend and the May Day holiday so perhaps things will pick up over the next few days.
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Still. it is the weekend and the May Day holiday so perhaps things will pick up over the next few days.
Agree ^^. This was only implemented on Friday afternoon of a European holiday weekend. Way too soon to draw any conclusions.
I had a slow to non-existent Friday afternoon, but weekend sales (such as they are) appeared normal.
By the end of this week we should have a much better picture of how sales and incomes are affected. :)
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I don't think it is related to pricing changes BUT ::
I'm having a BMBF at DT.
Lisa is right -- too early to start evaluating.
OH-- BMBF = Best Month By Far. ;D
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I'm hoping everyone's right -- that it's too early to start evaluating -- but it sure does seem that those with smaller ports and typically smaller sales (and fewer level 4 and 5 pics) are reporting that the past several days have been great... while those who normally have high sales (lots of level 4 and 5 pics) are saying it's a catastrophe.
Yes, we're in a holiday period for Europe, but that should be impacting everyone equally, and it doesn't appear to be.
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Yes, we're in a holiday period for Europe, but that should be impacting everyone equally, and it doesn't appear to be.
what holiday?
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Yes, we're in a holiday period for Europe, but that should be impacting everyone equally, and it doesn't appear to be.
what holiday?
I was thinking the same. In the UK the May holiday is next weekend.
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Yes, we're in a holiday period for Europe, but that should be impacting everyone equally, and it doesn't appear to be.
what holiday?
I was thinking the same. In the UK the May holiday is next weekend.
but the fact is that I am having a very crappy monday all around..
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I think it's been mentioned in multiple threads that the May Day holiday weekend was this past weekend... now we see that isn't the case... sorry to have been one of the ones perpetuating that myth.
Anyway, hearing that it wasn't a holiday weekend is very depressing. At least it could have explained some crappy days of sales, particularly with the DT change.
So next weekend will be even worse! Yay!
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I have a small port and haven't seen an upswing. Then again photography isn't the bulk of my port either :/
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I think it's been mentioned in multiple threads that the May Day holiday weekend was this past weekend... now we see that isn't the case... sorry to have been one of the ones perpetuating that myth.
Anyway, hearing that it wasn't a holiday weekend is very depressing. At least it could have explained some crappy days of sales, particularly with the DT change.
So next weekend will be even worse! Yay!
Yep, that's what I kept reading, and what I was referring to in my post. Disappointing to hear that was not true.
Still, weekends suck in stock. We all know it. Hard to draw any firm conclusions based on a weekend, holiday or not. Weekdays are a better indicator of what sales will be doing.
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Still, weekends suck in stock. We all know it. Hard to draw any firm conclusions based on a weekend, holiday or not. Weekdays are a better indicator of what sales will be doing.
All true... BUT... I always try to compare apples to apples... comparing this past weekend to the past several weekends, DT performed abysmally for me. I normally see good enough volume on weekends so the comparison would be statistically significant, and it's clear there was a monumental shift that sent me plummeting.
I want to remain a glass-half-full person, and I'll try to postpone judgment... but the terrible weekend downturn seems to be spreading into Monday. The day is half over, and I have around 10% of the sales I should have at this point on a Monday. A VERY bad sign.
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I think it's been mentioned in multiple threads that the May Day holiday weekend was this past weekend... now we see that isn't the case... sorry to have been one of the ones perpetuating that myth.
Well, I don't know where you see that, but at least here in Germany (and afaik in several other European countries) tomorrow (May 1st) is a public holiday. And obviously many people have been taking today off to enjoy a long weekend...
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Well this is interesting. There is now another little blurb at the bottom of Serban's original post.
Tomorrow we will be releasing the new price structure, the one we've been testing the last weeks. It distributes our collection in a more uniform way, giving a better chance to new files. They seem to get better and better, thanks to our talented contributors. Due to the high volume of submissions we felt that too many great files sell at a lower price point than elsewhere and this update will address that. The higher level files have seen a more modest increase, so we don't expect too many negative effects for buyers.
In short terms, what will happen starting tomorrow is that new files will be automatically allocated to level 1, instead of level 0. All existent files that have downloads will shift with one level up. New files (or existent files) that didn't sell for more than 24 months will be level 0.
In order to keep the royalties the same, we had to decrease them one per level. Because files went up one level they will actually bring you the same royalties, with the only drawback being that level 5 files have seen a cut. I hope this to be minimal though, thanks to the decrease in the number of downloads required (25 from 50d.). We have decided to keep the same royalties structure for subscriptions, as well as for exclusive contributors (you can apply for exclusivity here ;) ).
This change expects to bring an average of 15-20% increase in contributors revenue, with higher values for new or lower sized portfolios.
You've got another thing coming, enjoy!
I don't remember this being part of his original post and it wasn't copied in the OP's quote a few days ago, so I have to assume he has added this in later. Yet there's no indication that he has edited the post on the thread. What does he mean by "you've got another thing coming" and why did he sneak it in there?
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Well this is interesting. There is now another little blurb at the bottom of Serban's original post.
Tomorrow we will be releasing the new price structure, the one we've been testing the last weeks. It distributes our collection in a more uniform way, giving a better chance to new files. They seem to get better and better, thanks to our talented contributors. Due to the high volume of submissions we felt that too many great files sell at a lower price point than elsewhere and this update will address that. The higher level files have seen a more modest increase, so we don't expect too many negative effects for buyers.
In short terms, what will happen starting tomorrow is that new files will be automatically allocated to level 1, instead of level 0. All existent files that have downloads will shift with one level up. New files (or existent files) that didn't sell for more than 24 months will be level 0.
In order to keep the royalties the same, we had to decrease them one per level. Because files went up one level they will actually bring you the same royalties, with the only drawback being that level 5 files have seen a cut. I hope this to be minimal though, thanks to the decrease in the number of downloads required (25 from 50d.). We have decided to keep the same royalties structure for subscriptions, as well as for exclusive contributors (you can apply for exclusivity here ;) ).
This change expects to bring an average of 15-20% increase in contributors revenue, with higher values for new or lower sized portfolios.
You've got another thing coming, enjoy!
I don't remember this being part of his original post and it wasn't copied in the OP's quote a few days ago, so I have to assume he has added this in later. Yet there's no indication that he has edited the post on the thread. What does he mean by "you've got another thing coming" and why did he sneak it in there?
That's what you get for getting all excited in the forums, most ppl said it's a good thing, we'll earn more. If you show just a bit of appreciation, if you agree with them just to a small degree, they'll take advantage of it and kick you in the teeth. Woo-yayers on top of it don't help one bit, of course. It looks like the spin doctor added another spin :-X
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I think it's been mentioned in multiple threads that the May Day holiday weekend was this past weekend... now we see that isn't the case... sorry to have been one of the ones perpetuating that myth.
The UK seems to be out of step with the rest of the world. Monday was an official holiday in Russia and much of Asia. A lot of European stock markets were closed yesterday so I guess it was a bank holiday on most of the Continent, too.
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I think I'd be more upset if DT actually sold anything... I have a slightly larger still portfolio on DT than I do SS and SS outsells DT by a factor of 14 to 1. Heck, Flickr outsells DT almost 2 to 1.
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My last 14 sales at DT have ALL BEEN SUBS!!! This is killing me. Anyone else getting the dreaded subs run? >:( >:(
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Better than nothing, I got NO sales yesterday :o . Well it's not that unusual I guess, they're only my #4 earner, light years behind IS, not to mention SS, which is in another galaxy.
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I should think they are all from one person that really likes your stuff and has a subs package.