MicrostockGroup

Microstock Photography Forum - General => Off Topic => Topic started by: madelaide on February 13, 2008, 19:51

Title: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on February 13, 2008, 19:51
I decided to create this new thread, as our group is supporting Kiva.org. 

Today I received US$50 from Canstock and I have just lent this to two projects in Kiva, one in Peru and one in Uganda. 

It's amazing how this works, the first one had no loans and when I checked out there were 3 loans.  Before I picked it, I had seen one that needed $50 and when I searched it was gone!

If anyone is interested in helping the same groups:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=35904
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=32256

Maybe we could find one person/group to be fully sponsored by us?  :)

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: kosmikkreeper on February 13, 2008, 22:49
HI Madelaide

Since Leaf posted it here ,  I'm now an avid Kiva fan! I have now lent $200 and I plan on lending another $200 this year. I even added a Kiva link on my http://www.touchphotography.com/shop/ (http://www.touchphotography.com/shop/) site!

Here's my profile page: http://www.kiva.org/lender/yanik3104 (http://www.kiva.org/lender/yanik3104)

If each stock photographer would contribute just 1% of his profits, what  a change that would make!  ;D
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on February 14, 2008, 04:21
here is the microstockgroup kiva page
http://www.kiva.org/lender/microstockgroup

yeah, that would be pretty fun to sponsor one person totally by us!

It seems that when the person gets on the first page of 'who needs a loan' they get their loan filled within a day or a couple hours.  All the ones i started for microstock group filled up pretty fast.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: phildate on February 14, 2008, 04:33
I have lent money to 8 people now, having seen the thread here. It's a great way to lend money directly to people who need it. So much Aid from the West gets mis-used and I think the microloans method is the best way of helping people help themselves out of poverty.

The first three families I lent to are already paying back their loans.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: josh_crestock on February 14, 2008, 04:49
Yeah, I tried this out after reading about it here, first. Its a fantastic concept. One woman i loaned to seems to be doing very well and paying back ahead of time. Does anyone have some recommendations for further loans?

The idea of sponsoring together seems good, can microstockgroup work together and sponsor a few people completely?

 

Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: digiology on February 14, 2008, 09:26
Adelaide,

I just donated $50 to your second link (first one was filled already).

Thanks for posting.
Lora
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: ljooc on February 14, 2008, 10:05
Thanks, Adelaide for the posting and bringing Kiva to my attention. It is awesome what Kiva is doing and a  great way to help others in need directly

I have just joined as a member and will make the loans soon.

http://pinkjava.blogspot.com/
http://www.kiva.org/lender/jc5355

JC
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on February 14, 2008, 10:09
maybe at the end of the month - pay day- we can organize ourselves to sponser a collective loan.

I have allready emptied my paypal account from last months earnings, but would be willing to do start a loan, say 10 March
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on February 14, 2008, 11:13
well there was another member registration, so the microstockgroup portfolio has joined you on this one madelaide

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=32256

cool how they work the group loan - where they are responsible if the others in the group don't pay.  It would make them more accountable to eachother.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on February 14, 2008, 16:12
The Ugandan ladies group has also filled its quota - how exciting!

Leaf: great idea for the group loan, we could all transfer the money to your PP account so you can lend in the name of the group, plus those who may still join the site membership.  The only problem however is that I see loans basically starting from US$500 - would we be able to raise that ammount?

The loans fill up quite quickly really.  The oldest still in fundraising stage is from Feb 5th.

It would be nice to sponsor someone in Tajikistan and being able to visit him when I finally go there!  :D

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on February 14, 2008, 17:16
well i think that would get confusing if everyone sent $$ to me.. how to get the $$ back to everyone once the loan was done.

I think it would be better, to simply agree on which person to sponser, then all sponser that person at the same time.  If we agreed which day we would donate, then that person wouldn´t be filled up before we all got a chance to sponser them.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Karimala on February 14, 2008, 20:40
I love the concept of Kiva and started loaning $$$ last month.  It reminds me so much of some of us microstockers...small-time entrepreneurs who sometimes need small loans for our gear or photo shoots. 
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: yingyang0 on February 14, 2008, 21:04
The website doesn't say what interest rate you earn on the loans. Can anyone fill me in?
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on February 14, 2008, 21:18
yingyang,

You don't get an interest, you only receive your money back (most of the cases in monthly payments).

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: yingyang0 on February 14, 2008, 21:59
You don't get an interest, you only receive your money back (most of the cases in monthly payments).
Then I'll just stick with donating money. I've never liked what most of the micro loan groups do because of the loan shark interest rates they charge for the loans (25-36%).

After reading Kiva's "about Microfinance" page I'd be vary hesitant to lend through them. If you read question 6 "Why are microcredit interest rates so high?" They claim that there are three types of costs, yet the two don't exist for them. For kiva there is no cost for the money it lends (you're lending at a 0% interest rate to them) yet their example uses 10%. They also use a 1% default risk premium, yet I don't think they pay the lenders (you) if the borrower defaults so that's not an actual cost. Really the only fees they should be charging are related to transaction costs and shouldn't amount to 36% interest on the loans.

Just my opinion, but you'd be doing much more good by lending through a site like prosper.com if you want to lend money to people.  At Prosper the lenders compete for borrowers and actually lower the interest rate for the borrowers. Or if you're in the mood to donate rather than lend, but still like the microcredit idea you could donate to groups like villagebanking.org They actually setup microloan banks that make loans at reasonable rates in poorer countries. They also have low program expenses, which puts more of the money where it belongs.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on February 15, 2008, 05:08
I think that paragraph is just showing why microfinance in general has a high interest rate and how it works and why it is important to give cheaper loans - or why cheaper loans were not available for this people group originally.

If you check out this field partner for example
http://www.kiva.org/about/aboutPartner?id=7
they charge for customers 14%, where the average kiva loan is 22%

considering the 14% interest i think kiva is still a good thing.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: ParisEye on February 15, 2008, 07:58
You don't get an interest, you only receive your money back (most of the cases in monthly payments).
Then I'll just stick with donating money. I've never liked what most of the micro loan groups do because of the loan shark interest rates they charge for the loans (25-36%).

After reading Kiva's "about Microfinance" page I'd be vary hesitant to lend through them. If you read question 6 "Why are microcredit interest rates so high?" They claim that there are three types of costs, yet the two don't exist for them. For kiva there is no cost for the money it lends (you're lending at a 0% interest rate to them) yet their example uses 10%. They also use a 1% default risk premium, yet I don't think they pay the lenders (you) if the borrower defaults so that's not an actual cost. Really the only fees they should be charging are related to transaction costs and shouldn't amount to 36% interest on the loans.

Just my opinion, but you'd be doing much more good by lending through a site like prosper.com if you want to lend money to people.  At Prosper the lenders compete for borrowers and actually lower the interest rate for the borrowers. Or if you're in the mood to donate rather than lend, but still like the microcredit idea you could donate to groups like villagebanking.org They actually setup microloan banks that make loans at reasonable rates in poorer countries. They also have low program expenses, which puts more of the money where it belongs.

As I have some banking knowledge, I must agree with YingYang. When I read this thread I found the idea exciting and was ready to jump in. But I don't understand why they charge interest to these poor people ! The money cost nothing, they don't incure losses... The maximum they could ask for would be a management fee (a once a time few percent of the credit, or a flat fee say a few tens of $) for the processing of the operation.

But even at a "low" 14% for money which cost nothing, that does look rather strange to me and it doesn't seem the poor guy at the end of the chain is the one who really profits from that scheme.

The idea is good, but I'll look elsewhere to see how it is implemented.

Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on February 15, 2008, 08:20
well thanks guys for looking more into this... or making me question their 'ethics' .. but more indepth research and my part and I am just as sold on kiva.

check out this Field Partner
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=about&action=aboutPartner&id=13
They are only taking 3% interest whereas the Average Local Money Lender Interest Rate is 125%

Also, check out this thread for some good info on interest rates
http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,368.0.html

And lastly
Here is a radio interview that gives a good view of the microfinance world, with a lot of emphasis on interest rates (toward the end).  Matt from Kiva is on there too:

http://www.kuow.org/mp3high/m3u/WeekdayA/weekdaya20060717.m3u
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: yingyang0 on February 15, 2008, 10:16
check out this Field Partner
[url]http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=about&action=aboutPartner&id=13[/url]
They are only taking 3% interest whereas the Average Local Money Lender Interest Rate is 125%

Also, check out this thread for some good info on interest rates
[url]http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,368.0.html[/url]

Not to "rain on the parade" but when looking at that particular field partner you'll see that the average kiva loan is 22% and the avg. local money lender rate is 82%. That does look impressive, except that when they refer to "local money lender rate" they mean loan sharks, not banking institutions. The argument that "look we're cheaper than the local loan sharks" doesn't fly with me. They should be comparable with local banking rates, not local loan sharks because their cost of money is zero.

As for the origination costs, they're way offbase if they're saying (as they do in the thread you pointed to) that origination costs would be $50 on a  $500 loan.

You picked one foundation that has made a total of 3 loans and has no currently on going loans. It may be just me but I'd much rather donate to the individual organizations rather than go through kiva where they take money off the top for their costs.

Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on February 15, 2008, 10:34
check out this Field Partner
[url]http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=about&action=aboutPartner&id=13[/url]
They are only taking 3% interest whereas the Average Local Money Lender Interest Rate is 125%

Also, check out this thread for some good info on interest rates
[url]http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,368.0.html[/url]

Not to "rain on the parade" but when looking at that particular field partner you'll see that the average kiva loan is 22% and the avg. local money lender rate is 82%. That does look impressive, except that when they refer to "local money lender rate" they mean loan sharks, not banking institutions. The argument that "look we're cheaper than the local loan sharks" doesn't fly with me. They should be comparable with local banking rates, not local loan sharks because their cost of money is zero.

As for the origination costs, they're way offbase if they're saying (as they do in the thread you pointed to) that origination costs would be $50 on a  $500 loan.

You picked one foundation that has made a total of 3 loans and has no currently on going loans. It may be just me but I'd much rather donate to the individual organizations rather than go through kiva where they take money off the top for their costs.



but the point is, is that they can't get loans from a local banking institution.  It is only they loan sharks that are willing to give them a loan.

One more reason why interest rates are not always so low is because field partners (people giving the loans) don't get all their funding 'free'.  They also get loans themselves to support loans to give out.  Kiva doesn't take any percent of the interest rate from the loan.  Kiva is non profit.  The ones who are taking the interest rate income is the one giving out the loan.

and no - please do rain on the parade :)
It is good to make an informed decision.  I have a feeling we are going to disagree in the end, but it is nice to hear both sides.
If the other option however is not to help in any way and let them use the loan sharks... i don't think that is a good option.
Otherwise if you want to donate money to a worthy organization - well then that is another discussion.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on February 15, 2008, 11:27
I didn't know that there were local interests involved, but it makes sense.  Remember that NGOs (Kiva included) don't necessarily mean voluntary work.  They have employees and bills to pay. 

I agree with Leaf that these "enterpreneurs" would never get money from a bank.  What would be the choice, the NGO taking the bank loan to lend it to them?  It would still be expensive.

You may have no idea how bank interests are high in the 3rd world.  Here in Brazil, even with the low inflation rate we currently have, it may cost 7% a month.  That's what my bank charges me (a client for over 20 years with investment funds) if my balance goes negative.  Gladly it never does. :D  Now imagine someone who doesn't have a regular income.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on February 15, 2008, 11:34
The interest doesn't go to support kiva though.  Kiva gets their $$ to operate from donations.

If an 'investor' on kiva wants to make sure their field agent isn't taking too much interest, you can easily research the individual field agents and pick one which takes a low interest rate - or perhaps one that is non profit as well.  I believe part of the point of all this is to make it self sufficient, so that microfinance banks can be established and operate independently.  On that radio show they talked about how micro finance institutions would generally have to get $$ from other banks as well as the kiva $$ to find the loans they offer.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: yingyang0 on February 15, 2008, 13:28
You may have no idea how bank interests are high in the 3rd world.  Here in Brazil, even with the low inflation rate we currently have, it may cost 7% a month.  That's what my bank charges me (a client for over 20 years with investment funds) if my balance goes negative.  Gladly it never does. :D  Now imagine someone who doesn't have a regular income.
That's an overdraft charge, which is typically the highest rate a bank charges other than on credit cards (though that one is pretty high if it's truly 7% a month rather 7% APR that is compound monthly). Overdraft charges aren't a typical loan like the ones kiva is giving.

Yes I'm familiar with what banks charge in "3rd world" countries (I don't consider  Brazil to be 3rd world anymore), my grandfather is a banker in Uruguay.

It is good to make an informed decision.  I have a feeling we are going to disagree in the end, but it is nice to hear both sides.
I completely agree. Though it's not the only option. My favorite microloan setup are the ones that act like credit unions. They pool money (typically from people in a local block or village) and lend it out at reasonable rates. It's not just a choice between no money and a loan shark, the other options just take more effort on the part of the people.
Anyway it is nice to see people trying to make a difference.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: maunger on February 16, 2008, 07:57
Also, check out this thread for some good info on interest rates
[url]http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,368.0.html[/url]

And lastly
Here is a radio interview that gives a good view of the microfinance world, with a lot of emphasis on interest rates (toward the end).  Matt from Kiva is on there too:

[url]http://www.kuow.org/mp3high/m3u/WeekdayA/weekdaya20060717.m3u[/url]


Thanks leaf - very interesting info in there! I had no idea it was so difficult to get money in other countries (naive American here). Listened to most of that show and was very impressed with the information provided. I understand now how kiva works and why the interest rates seem high to us - but seem low to the borrowers. Thanks for the links.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on February 17, 2008, 19:20
I have just read an article about the bank earnings in 2007 here in Brazil, and one of the reasons given for their amazing results are interests in loans, which range between 35-40% a year, while the average cost for this money ranged from 10-13% a year and a spread of 22-28% a year.  Roughly speaking, for every $1 they paid for me in my funds, they got $2 from people to whom they lent MY money.

On a side note...  Don't you get mad at how poor some of the enterpreneur photos are?   ;D

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on February 18, 2008, 10:00
check out this Field Partner
[url]http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=about&action=aboutPartner&id=13[/url]
They are only taking 3% interest whereas the Average Local Money Lender Interest Rate is 125%

Also, check out this thread for some good info on interest rates
[url]http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,368.0.html[/url]

Not to "rain on the parade" but when looking at that particular field partner you'll see that the average kiva loan is 22% and the avg. local money lender rate is 82%. That does look impressive, except that when they refer to "local money lender rate" they mean loan sharks, not banking institutions. The argument that "look we're cheaper than the local loan sharks" doesn't fly with me. They should be comparable with local banking rates, not local loan sharks because their cost of money is zero.

As for the origination costs, they're way offbase if they're saying (as they do in the thread you pointed to) that origination costs would be $50 on a  $500 loan.

You picked one foundation that has made a total of 3 loans and has no currently on going loans. It may be just me but I'd much rather donate to the individual organizations rather than go through kiva where they take money off the top for their costs.




my point being though, that if you think the high interest rates are unfair to the people - you CAN find loaners who have low 'western world' type rates.  There was another couple registrations here today, and the most reason loan funded was this one
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=35990
provided by these people
http://www.kiva.org/about/aboutPartner?id=9

only 11%... I would say that is not bad at all.  That is better than a lot of car loans or other short term type loans available.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: yingyang0 on February 19, 2008, 00:32

my point being though, that if you think the high interest rates are unfair to the people - you CAN find loaners who have low 'western world' type rates.  There was another couple registrations here today, and the most reason loan funded was this one
[url]http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=35990[/url]
provided by these people
[url]http://www.kiva.org/about/aboutPartner?id=9[/url]

only 11%... I would say that is not bad at all.  That is better than a lot of car loans or other short term type loans available.


You do know that you already responded to my post right? (See posting Feb. 15, 10:34:26 AM) And no, 11% isn't bad at all. However my posting was about kiva in general and the average interest rate.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on February 19, 2008, 11:47

my point being though, that if you think the high interest rates are unfair to the people - you CAN find loaners who have low 'western world' type rates.  There was another couple registrations here today, and the most reason loan funded was this one
[url]http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=35990[/url]
provided by these people
[url]http://www.kiva.org/about/aboutPartner?id=9[/url]

only 11%... I would say that is not bad at all.  That is better than a lot of car loans or other short term type loans available.


You do know that you already responded to my post right? (See posting Feb. 15, 10:34:26 AM) And no, 11% isn't bad at all. However my posting was about kiva in general and the average interest rate.


yes i agree the average rate is higher and not as good as this lender.
Yeah, i know i responded to your post allready I just thought i had more ´fuel´for my argument.  :)  I will let it die now.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: yingyang0 on February 19, 2008, 18:32
I will let it die now.
Bump  ;D Charity is an important topic.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on March 28, 2008, 21:32
This week I received the first paybacks from my loans, and I'm going to help this lady from Nicaragua next:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=42125

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: yingyang0 on March 28, 2008, 22:15
This week I received the first paybacks from my loans, and I'm going to help this lady from Nicaragua next:
[url]http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=42125[/url]

Regards,
Adelaide

Too late  ;) I have to admit I'm warming up more to kiva. It's definitely better than prosper.com (I've learned that they advertise default rates better than actual, and recovery rate are horrible).

Question: How many loans have you made on kiva and does anyone know the actual default rate on kiva?
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: phildate on March 28, 2008, 23:13
I've made a total of 8 loans on Kiva now and all have received payments. No-one has re-paid completely but I am very reassured by the reports on the various projects I have loaned to. It definitely makes a big difference to people's lives and I will be sponsoring some more projects shortly.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Karimala on March 29, 2008, 02:34
I have three loans and gave one to my daughter for her birthday, and our ladies are all paying back on time.  I'll be adding more in the months to come. 

From what I have read on the site, the default rate is somewhere around 3%.  Most of the defaults are due to bad conditions in the region, such as ongoing violence in the Gaza Strip.  Each field partner is ranked based on their risk of default, and the majority of them have five star rankings.  They also list the field partner's default rate and delinquency rate.   

Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on March 29, 2008, 04:44
actually i think the default rate is .1%
check out this page

http://www.kiva.org/about/risk/overview

Microstockgroup has a couple loans where 4 or 5 people took the loan together.  If one of the is not able to pay the others have to cover her share of the loan.  A great idea for accountability and culturing a support group for the women.

this one for example (http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=42841)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: kosmikkreeper on March 29, 2008, 08:09
My objective is to have a total of 12 loans on rotation. I'm at 8 now and in April 4 more are going in.  I love the site!   ;D
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on March 29, 2008, 15:19
I plan to make a loan per month, and this is my third loan.  The first two were in Feb and the first payback was in time.

I'm not surprised that loan filled quickly, as it was a small one.

What do you think about high-value loans to just one person?  I saw one yesterday of a lady in Togo, she was asking US$1,200 for buying shoes for resale.  This is a lot of money in a 3rd world country for someone that probably doesn't have a bank account to handle, not to mention that to some people big numbers are confusing.  We had a maid who could not deal with maths in hundreds.  I don't know how close the NGOs follow these people, not to let them be fooled by some "smart" trader.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Karimala on March 29, 2008, 15:33
I'm also going to do one loan per month.  I'd love to do more, but when I do, I start clicking away on all the people to read their stories and get carried away with wanting to help people.  Pretty soon I've spent too much and broken the bank!   ;D 

I'm also going to continue giving loans to my kids, and alternate back and forth between them every month.  This is such a cool family project and a great way to teach them the benefits of giving while also * away money for them that they can use later, if needed.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on March 29, 2008, 15:47
well we should try and all support one person at the beginning of the next month after our stock royalties are paid out.  We were going to try this before, but then I forgot about it.

So after the shutterstock payments or something are paid out, how about we pick a loan.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: kosmikkreeper on March 30, 2008, 08:11
well we should try and all support one person at the beginning of the next month after our stock royalties are paid out.  We were going to try this before, but then I forgot about it.

So after the shutterstock payments or something are paid out, how about we pick a loan.

Great Idea!
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 07, 2008, 19:39
So after the shutterstock payments or something are paid out, how about we pick a loan.

So wehn do we do that?  If I know how many people are going to take part in it, I'll email Kiva and see if we can "book" a entrepreneur on our budget.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on April 08, 2008, 01:14
well i am still waiting for my payment....

i have read somewhere, perhaps the faq, that you cannot 'book' an entrepeneur.  We can just decide on one though and then all loan the same day.. we should be able to get in on it if we are reasonable quick and don't pick on that is on the front page.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Seren on April 08, 2008, 01:43
I would do something like this but it appears you can't participate if you're not from the states?  Or did I do something wrong?
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Mouse72 on April 08, 2008, 03:21
I am from the Netherlands and had no problem lending money.
I had never heard of Kiwa, but really love the idea of helping out tjis way. Thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 08, 2008, 16:23
Seren,

I'm in Brazil and I can lend, so I don't see any technical reason for you not being able to do it, unless there is some legal aspect.

Leaf,

I'll try to contact Kiva... who knows? 

Regards,
Adelaide

Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 09, 2008, 16:15
I emailed Kiva last night, but it seems it is taking a while for them to answer mail.  Oh well.

I ended up lending US$25 to an entrepreneur - it was the last share of that loan for a lady in Tanzania.  But I'm ready to lend US$25 to "our" entrepreneur.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on April 09, 2008, 16:17
good.. well i am still waiting for the shutterstock payment to come through, then i will be ready
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 10, 2008, 18:55
Well, got their reply, they can't make a special arrangement for us.  Too bad...

Quote
Thank you so much for your support of Kiva!

At this time, we cannot hold any loans for groups to fund. My apologies for the inconvenience. However, we are currently working on a formal group feature that will hopefully be launched on the website in the next couple of months.

So Leaf, maybe we could set a day and hour for people to "meet" here and make the group donation?

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on April 11, 2008, 01:04
yeah, that would be a good idea i think.   We can set a time and date and at that time we choose who to sponser (perhaps one that is 'burried' in the site somewhere).

Have you got your shutterstock payment yet?  I guess it doesn't really matter... they say they pay by the middle of the month so we could say that on Apr 15 we choose our sponsor person.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 11, 2008, 18:22
So, April 15th.  22pm GMT? 

Who's taking part, so we have a rough estimate of our budget? 

I'll put US$25.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: digiology on April 11, 2008, 22:29
I'll do $25 too.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on April 12, 2008, 01:57
me for $25

do you want to find the person madelaide?

and for anyone who doesn´t know what time 22:00 is at GMT, here is your answer

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: kosmikkreeper on April 12, 2008, 07:20
I'm in for $25

6pm EST
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 12, 2008, 14:53
do you want to find the person madelaide?
If I get here before the time, I can try to pick someone.

We have US$100 already,  Who else is in?

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Peter on April 12, 2008, 15:01
? what is this about?
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on April 13, 2008, 04:48
? what is this about?

 if you read, or skim most of this thread I think you will get an idea...
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Peter on April 13, 2008, 07:00
silly me. I didnt see page 1, only page 2.  :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on April 15, 2008, 04:05
anyone else in?

Are you going to find the person to donate to madelaide?

Today is the day... :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: digiology on April 15, 2008, 08:53
bump

Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on April 15, 2008, 08:59
anyone else in?

Are you going to find the person to donate to madelaide?

Today is the day... :)

I could be wrong, but there may be folks who do not want to advertise their participation, but who are willing to contribute once the entrepreneur has been chosen. :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on April 15, 2008, 10:12
anyone else in?

Are you going to find the person to donate to madelaide?

Today is the day... :)

I could be wrong, but there may be folks who do not want to advertise their participation, but who are willing to contribute once the entrepreneur has been chosen. :)

well that is obviously fine.  just keep an eye on this thread the next few hours.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 15, 2008, 10:29
I could be wrong, but there may be folks who do not want to advertise their participation, but who are willing to contribute once the entrepreneur has been chosen. :)

No problem, but it would help if we knew how much we have, so we could eventually pick one person/group exclusively for our sponsorship.

I'll see you all tonight!

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on April 15, 2008, 10:36
I could be wrong, but there may be folks who do not want to advertise their participation, but who are willing to contribute once the entrepreneur has been chosen. :)

No problem, but it would help if we knew how much we have, so we could eventually pick one person/group exclusively for our sponsorship.

I'll see you all tonight!

Regards,
Adelaide

Based on my experience, the loans fill up fairly quickly, so choosing one with only the need which has been met by those who have announced their contribution may exclude some who would have otherwise participated.

It's your choice, but I think it might make more sense to pick one with a larger need. Even if all of our group only partially sponsors someone along with others, we'd all be together.

The important thing is to encourage the giving, so as long as someone who might miss out on the one picked, still chooses to give to someone else, it's all good. Empowering other people is a fairly addictive experience. I encourage anyone to give it a shot, whether it be through Kiva or otherwise. :)

Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 15, 2008, 10:40

Based on my experience, the loans fill up fairly quickly,

That's the idea of "meeting" here tonight at 22pm GMT, so people are online and work together.

Of course we can't guarantee we can do it, and of course also the important thing is to help.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: temp
Post by: leaf on April 15, 2008, 10:47
I have started a little poll here so that people who want to participate but don't want to give their name can just click on the yes so we have more of an idea of how many participants there are.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: le_cyclope on April 15, 2008, 12:05
I will do my best to be in, but I might be a little tight for 22h GMT, which is 6PM in Montreal.  But 90% sure to be there.

By the way, I didn't check but I guess Kiva accept Paypal?

Claude
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on April 15, 2008, 14:10
yes, they do.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: le_cyclope on April 15, 2008, 16:13
I am home so I'm ready...  :)

So what's next, is everybody ready?

Adelaide, did you find a good «prospect»?

Claude
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 15, 2008, 16:21
I'm here.  Logging in Kiva now.

I'm trying to pick a lady in Asia.  Let's see what I can find.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on April 15, 2008, 16:24
sounds good :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: kosmikkreeper on April 15, 2008, 16:39
I'm here   ;D
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: digiology on April 15, 2008, 16:40
me too
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 15, 2008, 16:45
Ok, guys, I have envisaged a way of "booking" our entrepreneur. I have chosen the full ammount left, and I will release them as people join here.

In Asia, we have this lady, US$1200 loan, US$400 left, paying in 10 months, this is her second loan, the partner is rated 5 stars.
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=39689

Then we have this lady in Peru, a US$375 loan, 100% left, paying in 6 months, the company is also rated 5 star
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=42911

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on April 15, 2008, 16:47
so which one are we taking?
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 15, 2008, 16:50
Leaf, le_cyclope, digiology, kosmikkreeper, may we should use the chat for a faster communication?

This is so cool! ;D

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 15, 2008, 17:10
Ok, this is the person we picked:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=39689

I have picked the whole value left, so it may look as there is nothing left to lend, but indeed there is US$275 left that I will release in the next half hour or so, so people here who want to join us may take part of our group effort.  Then I'll release all that's left for any Kiva member to pick.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 15, 2008, 17:47
Is anyone else going to take part?

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: litifeta on April 15, 2008, 18:25
I think it is a great idea. But I cannot go with you all. Once I have $25 back in paypal I will. ONly $18 at the moment
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 15, 2008, 18:37
Ok, guys, it's been 1 1/2 h since we started our group funding, I'm going to release the contribution I held from general public and do my own US$25 contribution. 

We had 7 people joining our group effort, and hopefully a few more join us in the next hours, as the remaining quotas may take a while to fill up.  If they're all taken, and you still feel motivated, take perhaps our second choice, the Peruvian lady, or any other person you may choose to help. 

Thanks to all participants, and I hope we can do this again next month!   :-*

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 16, 2008, 11:49
Guys,

Our Peruvian lady had just one quota filled yet.  So if anyone is willing to start a loan, check her:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=42911

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: litifeta on April 16, 2008, 17:06
you are all genuinely nice people. Good kharma to you all. Soon as I have $25 in Paypal will join the site.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Karimala on May 02, 2008, 10:00
I missed out on the fundraising event last month, but don't worry...I'm still doing my part.   ;D  I received the first part of my tax refund, and the very first thing I did before anything else was lend $225 to some great people.  I also gave an additional $100 to my kids for them lend as well, and am giving a Kiva gift certificate to my niece for her 18th birthday on Monday. 

One of my guys in Mexico needs our help.  Michel is requesting a loan of $1200 to be repaid in 12 months for construction on his home, but since April 24 only five people have lent him any money.  Total loaned so far -- $125 in 8 days.   :-[ 

So...is anyone up for another fundraiser this month to help Michel?

 Kiva - Michel Salinas Limon (http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=45199)

Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Karimala on May 02, 2008, 21:58
Everyone must be busy today.   :-[ 

Nothing has changed with Michel's loan since I wrote earlier today, so I'm sure if anyone wants to help there is still plenty of time.  :-)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on May 02, 2008, 22:24
Your link doesn't work correctly, so maybe that has something to do with it? (though it was easy enough to figure out what was wrong)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Karimala on May 03, 2008, 00:37
Thanks!  Got it fixed.   :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on May 03, 2008, 11:31
Karimala,

I have lent too much last month 10 loans, I think), but if people decide to make a group loan again, you can count on me. 

Anyway, there was a discussion about his in their forum, and people say no request had yet been unfunded.  Some people in fact choose older requests when picking someone.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on June 19, 2008, 18:26
Hi everyone.  I will have my first Kiva loan fully paid by the end of this month. Is there anyone interested in doing another group loan?

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: digiology on June 19, 2008, 19:51
count me in  :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on June 21, 2008, 05:53
sure.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on June 27, 2008, 19:24
Anyone else?  My payback is due in a couple of days.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on June 28, 2008, 21:41
Ok, guys, this is the request I picked, a group from Bolivia led by a lady named Adelayda.  She must be a very nice person.  :)

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=53177

Still US$375 are required, and I hope others here can help. It's a short-term loan (4mo) so quickly the money will be abailable for another loan, or for withdrawal if you prefer.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on June 29, 2008, 01:38
got it.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Karimala on June 29, 2008, 10:50
No can do this round.   :-[  The first week of the month is best for me.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on June 29, 2008, 17:43
I might do one more loan in July, and maybe we can do like in the first time, "meeting" at a pre-set time to make a loan together.  I just could not resist lending to Adelayda's group.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on July 02, 2008, 20:43
Hi again,

What about arranging next Monday for a group loan?

There has been some loan requests from Lebanon, some of which from groups of women.  If nobody has an issue about lending to Lebanese people, that could be a good choice, with loan terms ranging from 4 to 6 months.

My second option would be loans to Cambodja or Vietnam, but these are normally very long term loans (12-18 months).

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on July 12, 2008, 15:26
Once again...  What about next Monday at 10pm GMT?  I'll try to be online, if my PC lets me (it's behaving oddly again).

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: digiology on July 12, 2008, 20:43
Yes! I will do it this time.


Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on July 13, 2008, 19:41
I hope others join us tomorrow.  And I hope I am online tomorrow!

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: yingyang0 on July 13, 2008, 22:12
What about lending to freddie and fannie mac (in the US), they need it more.  :-\
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on July 14, 2008, 16:52
yingyang, who are they?

I'm on Kiva now, searching a loan requestor.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: digiology on July 14, 2008, 17:08
I think they are the major mortgage lenders in the US. Tough times...lots of people losing their homes.

I have often thought that it would be nice though to spread out and support more than just KIVA.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on July 14, 2008, 17:22
I do a lot of local donations (MSF was my latest), but Kiva is the only choice I know for loans.

Here is my choice, a group from Viet Nam.  I hope others will join this effort.
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=55203

Their loan request is still at begining, so anyone willing to take part has probably some hours to join us.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: digiology on July 14, 2008, 17:28
Done!  :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on July 23, 2008, 20:13
I was browsing Kiva loan requests tonight and saw this one with only 6 days left.
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=52161

MLF has been a trustworthy partner and I think it's nice to support a small farmer. 

If anyone was thinking of choosing a loan, maybe this is it.
 
Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on August 09, 2008, 20:40
Hey guys, I won't propose a new group loan this month, but here are two loans I have just helped and still need funds. 

There is this lady in Peru:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=56767

and this lady from Senegal:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=59656

I was a bit unsure for the latter because the partner is very new at Kiva, so it doesn't have a delinquence rate history, but I decided to give them a try.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on August 30, 2008, 15:10
Kiva recently introduced partial pay-backs so we don't have to wait for the end of the loan term to see our money.  ;D

Leaf, we an  now have a group in Kiva for MSG loans:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=community

Who is willing to make a group loan this month?

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: digiology on August 30, 2008, 22:33
I just got some paybacks so I can do it this month. :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on September 01, 2008, 01:06
sure i'm up for it.  I have also made a 'team'

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=community&action=viewTeam&team_id=331

it doesn't look like we can make a group loan any easier, but perhaps in the future.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on September 05, 2008, 23:06
I have just made a loan to four smiling ladies from Mali and assigned it to our group.  I'm not sure however how this works - do we need all members take part of this loan?

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=61729

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on September 06, 2008, 03:28
No the team doesn't really have anything to do with anything other than when you make a loan it is counted towards your 'team'.  I managed to get in on the last $25 of that loan :)  when you make a loan you can say which 'team' it counts towards. 

I think it is used say, for example, if two businesses were competing against each other to make the most loans, or a group of people wanted to see how much of a difference they were making together (which is what we are doing i guess)

If you look at our team now (you and me :) ) - our team has made 2 loans
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=community&action=viewTeam&team_id=331
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Karimala on September 06, 2008, 08:54
You know what I would love to have?  A little icon and link in my signature to my portfolio at Kiva.   :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: digiology on September 08, 2008, 21:31
I joined the team and made a loan last night but it didn't get added to our total for some reason. :(

I would like to lend again but they are all full.
Quote
We're experiencing record traffic after some exciting new feature releases--check out our new Lending Teams! While we may not have a large variety of loans on the site right now and loan requests are being funded very quickly, new loans are being continuously added. We hope you find an entrepreneur whom you wish to suppor



Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on September 09, 2008, 01:48
Yeah, i think it did get added.  There are 3 loans on the team now.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: digiology on September 09, 2008, 11:06
Nope! The loan I made last night does not have MSG group assigned to it in my Portfolio and does not show up on our team page.

I just made 2 more loans today and they are showing up correctly.

I see our group favours women 75/25 so I chose male entrepreneurs this time.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Karimala on September 18, 2008, 12:55
Just added my first loan to our group...a tailor in Afghanistan. 
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Pixart on September 18, 2008, 15:24
I just went to make a loan and they automatically deducted $16 in my account for repayments, so I felt silly going through Paypal for $9.  Went back and added a 2nd loan.  That's clever. ;)  Now I have lopsided loans outstanding and will likely be on the "add another one" side when I go to lend again.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on September 18, 2008, 16:26
With the partial pay-backs, there are very few loans to choose from. I still have credits for one more loan, but I'm waiting.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Karimala on September 19, 2008, 13:13
The upside is there aren't anymore loans going unfunded.  I was beginning to see quite a few loans going to the wire with only a day or two left, and a lot of funding still needed.   
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on September 25, 2008, 16:35
Probably this request will be filled soon, but if anyone is willing to lend, there is this lady from Azerbaijan who is now in our Microstockgroup Kiva group:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=66893

18 months is quite a long period, but with the partial paybacks now this is more edible.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on September 25, 2008, 17:59
Filled allready :(
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on December 29, 2008, 18:19
To anyone willing to participate, why not right now, and give needing people a truly happy New Year?
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses

I have just lended to these ladies, but I think they will be filled soon.  The one from Cambodja in fact I waited for someone to give up lending - it happens often, people take many loans, then when they go finish the transactions they pick only a few.
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=81771
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=81715
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=81676

Regards,
Adelaide

PS: We have now 22 loans in the MSG lending team:
http://www.kiva.org/community/viewTeamLoans/?team_id=331

Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: shank_ali on December 31, 2008, 07:50
I will not be donating anymore besides my premier membership fee.
Charities are breeding throughout our modern day society like a cancer.
I am sick to death of seeing a person shaking a tin can wanting my hard earned money for    a concern i dont give two hoots about.
I have donated to the RNLI in the past because i live on an island,I have donated to charity for hospice for cancer patients as both my parents died of cancer.
Lokk after yourself and your family and let the sufferers kin take care of their own.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: fotografer on December 31, 2008, 08:12
Except that the sufferers kin are in exactly the same boat and aren't able to help. I wonder why you even bothered coming onto this thread and posting and trying to get the attention onto yourself instead of just ignoring it . ???

Lokk after yourself and your family and let the sufferers kin take care of their own.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: fotografer on December 31, 2008, 08:16
I have already made a couple of loans but went in yesterday to help my mum to do one and it said that all the loans have been funded.  If anybody notices when unfunded loans become available will you please post here as I'm more likely to look here than remember to check the Kiva website.
Thanks
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: shank_ali on December 31, 2008, 10:47
Except that the sufferers kin are in exactly the same boat and aren't able to help. I wonder why you even bothered coming onto this thread and posting and trying to get the attention onto yourself instead of just ignoring it . ???

Lokk after yourself and your family and let the sufferers kin take care of their own.
Because i am entitled to an opinion and feel quite strongly about charities in general,hence the post.Forget about giving money to charity ;try giving your TIME, go do some gardening or decorating for an elderly person in your neighbourhood.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on December 31, 2008, 12:28
Except that the sufferers kin are in exactly the same boat and aren't able to help. I wonder why you even bothered coming onto this thread and posting and trying to get the attention onto yourself instead of just ignoring it . ???

Lokk after yourself and your family and let the sufferers kin take care of their own.
Because i am entitled to an opinion and feel quite strongly about charities in general,hence the post.Forget about giving money to charity ;try giving your TIME, go do some gardening or decorating for an elderly person in your neighbourhood.

I understand your opinion about charities, but I have a feeling you have no idea what this particular organization is about. It is a LOAN agency that lends to people who want to WORK for a living, and who need funds to help their businesses grow. They are required to repay the loan, and should you choose to lend, you will get your full investment back at the end of the loan term, which you can then withdraw or choose to LEND to another WORKING entrepreneur.

There is a very small risk of default on the loans, but as of yet I have not experienced any problems with that.

In any case, this is not an example of someone asking for a handout so that they can sit at home and watch their widescreen plasma that they paid for with your hard-earned tax contributions.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: null on January 01, 2009, 10:39
Charities are breeding throughout our modern day society like a cancer.

[deleted]

Ali, you are right.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on January 01, 2009, 11:05
I wonder how all my loans so far have been paid back if the drunks just ran off with the money and evaporated into the slums. Hmm...
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: fotografer on January 01, 2009, 11:11
Exactly what I was thinking. Mine are making their payments on time so far.

It's exactly why I really like this organization as it is helping people to help themselves and at the same time keep their pride and dignity and ultimately probably not going to cost us anything .

I wonder how all my loans so far have been paid back if the drunks just ran off with the money and evaporated into the slums. Hmm...
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: null on January 01, 2009, 11:24
I wonder how all my loans so far have been paid back if the drunks just ran off with the money and evaporated into the slums. Hmm...


You are probably right. I'm totally biased since I can see what happens in real, unlike people far away that see the truth and the broader picture on a website. I sinned against my own rule, never mix business (photography) with politics and I will remove my rant in 24 hrs. Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundus_vult_decipi,_ergo_decipiatur).
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: shank_ali on January 01, 2009, 15:01
I wonder how all my loans so far have been paid back if the drunks just ran off with the money and evaporated into the slums. Hmm...


You are probably right. I'm totally biased since I can see what happens in real, unlike people far away that see the truth and the broader picture on a website. I sinned against my own rule, never mix business (photography) with politics and I will remove my rant in 24 hrs. Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundus_vult_decipi,_ergo_decipiatur[/url]).

lISTEN..you had something to say and i read it well and found it interesting.I feel for any person who is the victim of theft.
nb The givers who have donated and find it rewarding..well done and please keep it up if it helps people who are less fortunate than ourselves.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on January 01, 2009, 16:24
Guys,

I understand the point-of-view of people who distrust helping people through NGOs, but I don't think this discussion is positive here, nor this is the objective of this thread.  You don't want to loan to Kiva, you don't trust Kiva, it's ok.  But this thread is for people to discuss Kiva loans.

Flemish, comparing the theft you suffered with Kiva loans is not valid.  Kiva is not stealing from us, unless you want to consider the lack of interest in our loans vs the interests the NGOs charge the money borrowers.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: null on January 01, 2009, 20:38
lISTEN..you had something to say and i read it well and found it interesting.I feel for any person who is the victim of theft. nb The givers who have donated and find it rewarding..well done and please keep it up if it helps people who are less fortunate than ourselves.

The theft issue weakened my point. The main point was about what I have witnessed about charity, both gov and nongov money, on the terrain. And I ended with a positive note that there are nevertheless people around that make it their own way cent by cent with no charity involved at all. But once again, this issue, just like the religious issue some time ago, has nothing to do with photography. Nor have kiva-loans. So I rest my case.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Peiling on January 03, 2009, 07:35
I just saw newspaper today about a store that opened but there are no staff as they all went on holiday. The owner left the store open and an honesty box in the store for people to buy things and give the money. The result, there was no theft and those who bought stuff left the money. I was so gratified when i read the news and i tght wow, that makes me want to believe in human race again!
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on January 03, 2009, 12:40
Where was that?  A lost island?   ;D

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on January 03, 2009, 18:24
If anyone is interested, I have just made a loan to these ladies in Camboja:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=82043

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Phil on January 05, 2009, 20:21
I am often sceptical towards charities, plenty of the large ones are essentially companies whose business is fundraising and managing the return on the investments of the "foundation"

there are also wonderful "volunteer" programs that costs thousands and then you see that the money is going to one place and the program is essentially a 'front', run on a shoestring budget only to get money in for the underlying organisation...

but I still give small amounts to groups / charities, always anoumously so that I dont get continous requests

I only looked at it last month but personally I like kiva, you are loaning not giving, and it is I think it is a totally different mindset for both parties.  The people receiving know what they need and this targets those needs specifically, and often allows them to produce or increase their income.  I am now allocating $100 month to kiva which my kids each choose someone to lend $25 to. 

our first four are here
http://www.kiva.org/lender/phil3624

Phil

Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: fotografer on January 06, 2009, 03:02
That's exactly what I like about this organization. I have heard so many bad stories about where the money goes when  you give money to charity or sponsor a child but this group seems genuine as they have already started paying money back that I lent a couple of months ago. 
I also plan on doing this as a regular thing.

I am often sceptical towards charities, plenty of the large ones are essentially companies whose business is fundraising and managing the return on the investments of the "foundation"

there are also wonderful "volunteer" programs that costs thousands and then you see that the money is going to one place and the program is essentially a 'front', run on a shoestring budget only to get money in for the underlying organisation...

but I still give small amounts to groups / charities, always anoumously so that I dont get continous requests

I only looked at it last month but personally I like kiva, you are loaning not giving, and it is I think it is a totally different mindset for both parties.  The people receiving know what they need and this targets those needs specifically, and often allows them to produce or increase their income.  I am now allocating $100 month to kiva which my kids each choose someone to lend $25 to. 

our first four are here
[url]http://www.kiva.org/lender/phil3624[/url]

Phil


Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on January 06, 2009, 15:13
Phil,

I think it's ok that someone makes a living by running a NGO/charity.  I'm happy to give money to a NGO/charity knowing that they will help people as they propose.

I know a company here whose business is to collect money for charity.  One runs a home for abandoned elders, they collect money for it.  Another runs a support group for HIV-positive adolescents, they collect money for it.  The charities don't have to seek contributors, hire people to collect them, risk losses, etc.  The business is a service to them.  I think it's ok, as long as they don't get a huge chunk of the money I give. 

Congratulations on the loans, it is a great feeling when we see how many different people we can help. If you want, join the Microstockgroup.com Lending Team (http://www.kiva.org/community/viewTeam?team_id=331)

Regards,
Adelaide

PS: BTW, folks, the Cambodia loan has not been filled yet:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=82043
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: GBlack on January 06, 2009, 18:50
I saw this thread and thought I'd chip in with a recommendation for the book "Banker to the Poor" by Muhammad Yunnus.  He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2006, and is widely regarded as the father of microlending.   It's an interesting book and details how he originated the concept in Bangladesh in the early 1970s.  Banks and the government were riddled with corruption, and had no desire to loan money to the people who needed it the most.  And in the very patriarchal society, it was taboo to loan to women.  Yet with microlending he was able to create something that has enabled people, and especially women, to build their own businesses and work their way out of poverty.  Kiva is a different organization, but incorporates many of the same principles.  Kiva's innovation is that it allows individuals to use the Internet and Paypal to fund the loans, rather than governments and traditional banks.

Interestingly, he is very against outright charity for the poor, for much of the same reasons that others have posted in this thread.  It's a very good book.


Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Phil on January 07, 2009, 17:38
I saw this thread and thought I'd chip in with a recommendation for the book "Banker to the Poor" by Muhammad Yunnus.  He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2006, and is widely regarded as the father of microlending.   It's an interesting book and details how he originated the concept in Bangladesh in the early 1970s.  Banks and the government were riddled with corruption, and had no desire to loan money to the people who needed it the most.  And in the very patriarchal society, it was taboo to loan to women.  Yet with microlending he was able to create something that has enabled people, and especially women, to build their own businesses and work their way out of poverty.  Kiva is a different organization, but incorporates many of the same principles.  Kiva's innovation is that it allows individuals to use the Internet and Paypal to fund the loans, rather than governments and traditional banks.

Interestingly, he is very against outright charity for the poor, for much of the same reasons that others have posted in this thread.  It's a very good book.


thanks for that, I'll grab the book and have a read.

madelaide, sorry I wasn't real clear. I am sceptical of a number but definetly not against charities. I have some friends who work for an small environmental ngo, it has 4-5 staff who aren't well paid and wouldnt be able to match there work with volunteers (or have to put there wages into advertising to bring up membership). their budgets are tight because they put as much as possible into their programs etc and they do some great work. I just dislike it when large amounts end up paying high level corporate wages etc.

Regards
Phil

 
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: litifeta on January 07, 2009, 23:46
Madelaide.

How much do you have to put in to join the microstock group at Kiva? I have $25AUD in my PayPal account.

Dave
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on January 08, 2009, 01:20
You don't have to put anything in - you can just join the team, then when you make your first loan (US $25) you can count it towards whatever team you want.  It is still listed as your loan and you get the $$ back when the loan is finished, the teams are just sort of a way of having a visual of working together.

http://www.kiva.org/community/viewTeam?team_id=331
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on January 08, 2009, 09:18
Is there a way to add my loans to the team if I have already established a portfolio separately without joining the team? (I started before there was a team)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on January 08, 2009, 09:21
Whatalife,

I don't think so, as new loans are not even automatically added to a team, you have to select it from a lista, even if you are not a member of more than one team.  Maybe if you ask Kiva staff to make the association?

Regards,
Adelaide 
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on January 08, 2009, 11:33
Whatalife,

I don't think so, as new loans are not even automatically added to a team, you have to select it from a lista, even if you are not a member of more than one team.  Maybe if you ask Kiva staff to make the association?

Regards,
Adelaide 

That's what I thought. thanks
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on January 08, 2009, 12:43
I just found a topic on kivafriends forum that confirms it. It can't be done.
http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,3094.0.html (http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,3094.0.html)

Oh well, maybe next time... I'm about 3 dollars away from having enough paid back to loan again.

Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: litifeta on January 08, 2009, 17:54
Cool. I joined. Won't be until end of month for first payment.

Dave
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Phil on January 17, 2009, 01:22
if I make a loan and choose for it to be part of the team, does it still appear on my personal page?
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: digiology on January 17, 2009, 02:01
if I make a loan and choose for it to be part of the team, does it still appear on my personal page?

Yes it does!

Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Phil on January 17, 2009, 03:19
thanks
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: kosmikkreeper on January 17, 2009, 08:24
Thanks for creating the team Leaf! I just found out about it and joined it. :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on January 20, 2009, 13:34
If anyone is interested in lending, here is a Pakistani group I lent to:

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=84745

I only regret that the money is in fact not for these ladies, but for their husbands' businesses. I can only hope this still improves their lives.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on January 20, 2009, 13:59
I put in a loan earlier today thanks to Fred's membership - I should have posted it here so you could join.  There are no spots left now.  It was the only loan available.  good to see that Kiva is so successful.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on January 20, 2009, 14:20
I didn't think to post here since they fill up so fast. Is that what we are supposed to do?
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on January 20, 2009, 15:15
i dunno, i guess we could so that just in case others want to lend they can join in.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Pixart on January 20, 2009, 15:32
Boy, I'm having a hard time finding a loan.  I hope that Kiva doesn't lose lenders in the long run because they are doing such a great job.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on January 20, 2009, 16:01
i dunno, i guess we could so that just in case others want to lend they can join in.

Unless they see the post the minute it's posted, it's unlikely they would have time to join in. Besides, the more variety we have, the more loans show up on our team page. ;)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on January 20, 2009, 16:16
At least for me, there was a delay in repayments, so all of a sudden I had a huge amount in my Kiva account - I even collected some back to my Paypal account.  If this was general, it explains why lender options suddenly disappear.

I saw one very long term loan today - 20 months or more, something that long - as was surprised to see it quickly filled up.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on January 20, 2009, 16:31
yeah, well it depends on how many loans they have available.  A couple weeks ago madelaide posted a link and I was able to join a day later I think.

If you manage to find a loan that is buried deep in the site, I think they can stay open for a couple days.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on January 21, 2009, 01:34
yeah, well it depends on how many loans they have available.  A couple weeks ago madelaide posted a link and I was able to join a day later I think.

If you manage to find a loan that is buried deep in the site, I think they can stay open for a couple days.

Yes, that's true. When I first started lending about a year ago, there would be pages of loans and an actual need for the search engine. The last time I lent, I had the choice of only 8 available loans.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Pixart on January 21, 2009, 15:44
No available loans again today.  I've checked every day this week.  Maybe I'll have to get up a little earlier.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on January 21, 2009, 17:34
There were plenty around the 15th, when I got my repayments.  There were about 20 yesterday, and they disappear very fast.

Regards,
Adelaide

PS: There are 19 right now.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Pixart on January 21, 2009, 19:34
Thanks Adelaide, I found some loans tonight.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Pixart on February 02, 2009, 10:48
Today there's 34 pages of loans if anyone else was discouraged about not finding an available loan on Kiva last month.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on February 02, 2009, 15:54
Thanks for reminding me.  I had some credits there and just used them.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on February 02, 2009, 16:28
dido, nice to have some choice :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on February 20, 2009, 13:28
They are out of loans again. This happens every time I get my credit up to enough to fund another loan. Now I have to practice patience, which is not very fun.  :D

ETA, it looks like they are trickling in a few at a time today, so I guess if you hang out long enough you will eventually be able to get one.

Unfortunately I have actual work that I gotta do and can't hang out. If somebody happens to see a big group uploaded, let us know. thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on February 20, 2009, 17:40
The vast majority of my pay-backs appear on the 15th.  I guess this is happening to everybody, and when they receive enough for a new loan they use it and available loans are filled quickly.  I kept money in credit and I'll wait a few days for my next loan.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on February 27, 2009, 21:13
There are currently 40 loans available, for those interested.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on March 09, 2009, 18:36
If anyone has funds available for a long-term loan (24 months), this guy here from Moldovia needs help to keep on his truck business:

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=93946

I have recently added more funds to Kiva, so right now I will only lend more when I get paybacks later this month.

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 01, 2009, 19:24
There are currently 988 loans available at Kiva, should anyone be interested in helping.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on April 02, 2009, 01:07
thanks for the notice.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Clivia on April 02, 2009, 01:56
I started a couple more. My previous one has been repaid, so I am reusing the funds. It is a great way to make our small change works for someone else!
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 02, 2009, 16:36
I celebrated one year in Kiva last February.  28 loans have already been paid back.  It feels great to know that I was able to help so many people in so little time.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 09, 2009, 18:56
I have just made a loan to Sudan, a country that I haven't seen in Kiva before.  There are four loan requests for them, should anyone be interesting in doing good in Easter/Passover.

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&queryString=sudan
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on June 02, 2009, 21:52

MSG in Kiva is about to reach its 100th loan - we're currently at 97th.
http://www.kiva.org/team/microstockgroup (http://www.kiva.org/team/microstockgroup)

So if you decide to do a loan, don't forget to select MSG (you need to join the group before having that choice).
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Phil on June 03, 2009, 00:28
cool, I'll get my kids do another 3 when they are home from school to make it up to 100 :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on June 03, 2009, 10:48
We reached 100!  I only see ywo after mine, so I guess mine was in fact the 98th, maybe the 97 I had seen was not yet updated.

Way to go, MSG!  :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on June 03, 2009, 11:07
Nice to see some action in this.  Hopefully 100 people were able to build a bit of a business for themselves.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on August 16, 2009, 15:14
Anyone interested in making a loan?

From Togo:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=126367 (http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=126367)

From Tanzania:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=128814 (http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=128814)

From Nicaragua:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=129036 (http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=129036)

From Honduras:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=129554 (http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=129554)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: goldenangel on August 16, 2009, 16:02
I joined the group and made my first loan. Thank you for pointing this out.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on August 16, 2009, 16:42
i got in on the one :)
thanks madelaide
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on August 16, 2009, 19:23
Three of us joined these loans.

If anyone is still interested, the one from Nicaragua needs one more person.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Phil on August 16, 2009, 22:20
The top two had got their funds when I looked, but I loaned to the bottom tow. Now that I've lent him some money, just out of interest what is the guy with the bike going to do? :) (it's in spanish?) 
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: bittersweet on August 17, 2009, 01:50
The top two had got their funds when I looked, but I loaned to the bottom tow. Now that I've lent him some money, just out of interest what is the guy with the bike going to do? :) (it's in spanish?) 

That's weird...I've never seen a listing entirely in Spanish before.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: fotografer on August 17, 2009, 02:02
The top two had got their funds when I looked, but I loaned to the bottom tow. Now that I've lent him some money, just out of interest what is the guy with the bike going to do? :) (it's in spanish?) 
He sells icecream.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: fotografer on August 17, 2009, 02:15
I've made 6 loans now.  I love this scheme. It's such a great way of helping people without them losing their pride. Looks like I'm too late to  join in on the Microstock group one again.  It always seems to happen when I have emptied my paypal account.  I think I will leave 25$ in my account next time and then I will have it there ready.  :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: phildate on August 17, 2009, 05:48
I just joined the MSG on Kiva, have been making loans there for a long time but had some Kiva credit to re-issue today and did it as part of the group. Everyone has re-paid their loan so far which is great, means the scheme works and I can re-loan to someone else.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on August 17, 2009, 05:53
I have a total of 98 loans in 18 months, 57 of which have been fully paid back.  There is one loan whose last installment is currently delayed, but they clarified that there was a problem with the agency and they have rescheduled their payments.  Given the variety of countries and agencies, I am actually surprised there have been no real losses.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: leaf on August 17, 2009, 10:49
here is another if anyone is still interested

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=129438 (http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=129438)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Phil on August 17, 2009, 18:02
The top two had got their funds when I looked, but I loaned to the bottom tow. Now that I've lent him some money, just out of interest what is the guy with the bike going to do? :) (it's in spanish?) 
He sells icecream.

thanks :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Phil on August 17, 2009, 18:05
I have a total of 98 loans in 18 months, 57 of which have been fully paid back.  There is one loan whose last installment is currently delayed, but they clarified that there was a problem with the agency and they have rescheduled their payments.  Given the variety of countries and agencies, I am actually surprised there have been no real losses.

wow!

we've made 26, 3 are paid back. a month or so ago there was a default of a few dollars, but whoever it was must have got caught up because it's not there now :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: fotografer on August 18, 2009, 00:39
It's completed already :(
 
here is another if anyone is still interested

[url]http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=129438[/url] ([url]http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=129438[/url])
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on September 20, 2009, 21:47
My 100th Kiva loan was added to our MSG team there, but it doesn't show because other teams have lent more.  Anyone wants to join?

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=138038 (http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=138038)

our MSG team page:
http://www.kiva.org/community/viewTeam?team_id=331 (http://www.kiva.org/community/viewTeam?team_id=331)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on September 25, 2009, 20:11
Sorry to pester you.  Here is another loan I am involved, it expires in 5 days and there is still US$400 needed.  In case someone wants to join...

http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=129023 (http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=129023)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: goldenangel on September 25, 2009, 20:23
Thanks Adelaide! I participated as well.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on March 17, 2010, 18:17
In case someone wants to join these loans I've just made:

from Ecuador: http://www.kiva.org/lend/185433 (http://www.kiva.org/lend/185433)
from Togo: http://www.kiva.org/lend/185209 (http://www.kiva.org/lend/185209)
from Kyrgyzstan: http://www.kiva.org/lend/185282 (http://www.kiva.org/lend/185282)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: luissantos84 on March 17, 2010, 20:53
I joined I guess 1 or 2 month ago when I have reached 1000$ in microstock earnings..! Joined Roberto Marinello team :)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: PowerDroid on March 18, 2010, 09:37
I joined last month as well.  My intention is to do Kiva loans once a month, using the microstock revenues of my highest day of the past 30 days. 
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Suljo on March 18, 2010, 22:35
I think Kiva or other landing sites are not good.
Maybe Kiva alone as concept is good but pawn savings companies under Kiva umbrella.
So any person from 2nd or 3th part dont look at this loan gentle as you think.
(Madelaide once says that she want to meet person e.g. from Ucraine or other county to see how it works or somewhat after she lend money in romantic way how business is groving).
I think it is bad for us to lending money without any interest (as I read about it, and you can loose that invested money), while this companies which are something between savings bank and pawn shop (and under Kiva badge on their web sites) use OUR money and exploiting they customers to pawn they real property with interest which is 20% or more.

Conclusion
1. We have (generous, gentle, noble, refine, sublime) purpose to help somebody.
2. Under Kiva there are lot of plunder wannabe savings baks and pawn shops who use our money to lend it with 20 or more percent for they own pocket.
3. Sorry I dont want to have deal with that.
(If you dont believe me, I check some wannabe saving banks in my area under Kivas map page and if you see that pages everything will bee clear to you)
4. You can not invest money in that wannabe savings banks which are under Kiva to share they profit because they have enough money free from YOU and they want that plunder profit only from themselves.

Tell me if I am wrong...
If you want to help somebody turn around yourself and just help without Kiva with plunders under this umbrella........
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: red on March 18, 2010, 23:31
Not all bad things in this article, but there may be better ways to microfinance those who need these types of loans (microplace.com)?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/business/global/09kiva.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/business/global/09kiva.html)

Confusion on Where Money Lent via Kiva Goes
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Phil on March 19, 2010, 01:16
I think Kiva or other landing sites are not good.
Maybe Kiva alone as concept is good but pawn savings companies under Kiva umbrella.
So any person from 2nd or 3th part dont look at this loan gentle as you think.
(Madelaide once says that she want to meet person e.g. from Ucraine or other county to see how it works or somewhat after she lend money in romantic way how business is groving).
I think it is bad for us to lending money without any interest (as I read about it, and you can loose that invested money), while this companies which are something between savings bank and pawn shop (and under Kiva badge on their web sites) use OUR money and exploiting they customers to pawn they real property with interest which is 20% or more.

Conclusion
1. We have (generous, gentle, noble, refine, sublime) purpose to help somebody.
2. Under Kiva there are lot of plunder wannabe savings baks and pawn shops who use our money to lend it with 20 or more percent for they own pocket.
3. Sorry I dont want to have deal with that.
(If you dont believe me, I check some wannabe saving banks in my area under Kivas map page and if you see that pages everything will bee clear to you)
4. You can not invest money in that wannabe savings banks which are under Kiva to share they profit because they have enough money free from YOU and they want that plunder profit only from themselves.

Tell me if I am wrong...
If you want to help somebody turn around yourself and just help without Kiva with plunders under this umbrella........

You often get a report after it has been paid back on how it has helped (and reading between the lines in some cases you can see it hasn't helped much, but in other cases it has made amazing differences).

20% interest is pretty good for short term & small amount loans (My 'gold', 'you're a special customer' blah blah :) credit card is 19.8%). Many loan sharks / pawn shops work on daily interest that can be end up over 1000% interest per year.  Kiva's not perfect but it is better for people than the alternatives?? Certainly better than giving it to charities who in some cases put it in a foundation and then use the interest to pay their staff, office costs, marketing, etc and a tiny little bit of interest ends up with the people who need it (and often it is giving the wrong type of aid)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: ShadySue on March 19, 2010, 03:21
Kiva may attract 'new' money, as it's fun and interactive - you get to choose exactly whom you benefit. While fun, I didn't like the experience of having to actively 'reject' so many others in the process, so that emotional interactivity backfired me.
I wonder if there's an American organisation which works in the same way as Traidcraft Exchange.
http://www.traidcraft.co.uk/about_traidcraft/how_traidcraft_works/traidcraft_charity (http://www.traidcraft.co.uk/about_traidcraft/how_traidcraft_works/traidcraft_charity)
They don't loan money, they use gifts in different ways to help people in business in developing countries. They don't ask for their money back (though you as a donor can get your original capital back at any time), but I've often read how people who have benefitted go on to either employ or train others.
Donations are handled through an umbrella organisation which only charges a 5% fee. It's a UK charity, so taxpayers opt for Gift Aid (so the Govt adds tax to your donation).
"We process donations and reclaim Gift Aid for our member charities, and charge a small fee for our service. It works like this:
       1. When you donate £10 on our site, we send 100% to the charity by the end of the week.
       2. We reclaim Gift Aid from the government, which takes about a month, adding £2.82 to your donation.
       3. It’s only when we receive the Gift Aid that we charge our 5% fee, along with credit/debit card/PayPal charges, and send the rest to the charity. If you are not a UK taxpayer and we can’t reclaim Gift Aid, our fee comes out of your donation. Since over 85% of donations through JustGiving are eligible for Gift Aid, our charities always end up raising more with us.
    So, for every £10 you give as a UK taxpayer, the charity receives almost £12, and they get it much faster than they would otherwise."

http://www.justgiving.com/how-justgiving-works/ (http://www.justgiving.com/how-justgiving-works/)
As a UK company, I wouldn't think they are geared up for international donations, and Gift Aid wouldn't apply to those, but there may be a US similar company?
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Phil on March 19, 2010, 03:51
I had issues with who I was not helping (and so did my kids who actually make most of the choices) but then I realised that everyone actually gets their loan whether it is us or not, so we are choosing who we lend too but not actually saying no to anyone :) (our choices are often based on high level decision making like 'thats a nice looking cake and I'm hungry, I'll lend money to you, or you have a big family...)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on March 19, 2010, 10:19
There were discussions about this at Kiva Forum itself.

Here in Brazil interest rates in banks are very high, and to get one you have to fulfill many requirements.  If you don't have a formal job or run a formal business, they won't lend you a cent.  So this type of people only have access to informal loans, which charge absurd interest rates - and not rarely threat you if you can not pay for some reason.

What the NGOs associated with Kiva do is to get bank loans (if not getting from Kiva) at "normal" rates - which, as I said, can still be very high - but lower than the "sharks" charge, and lend this money to the needy people.  Of course they have to charge interest rates higher than the bank asks them, so they can cover their costs.  NGOs are not voluntary work.  These intermediates may even make a living out of it, and I see nothing wrong.  They are still better to the poor people than the sharks.

It seems Kiva does regular checks on these NGOs.

Remember that "microloans" is an initiative that began in Bangladesh and even received a Nobel Prize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grameen_Bank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grameen_Bank)). I think very few initiatives are so successful, because it is not charity, it is a way to help people achieve a better condition through their own work.

There are microloans in Brazil, but from funds with donated money.  I have already emailed a couple of these institutions telling about Kiva, but maybe they already get the support they need.

Of course, we all can run microloands ourselves, and my family has done it a lot, lending money to maids, janitor, taxi driver, etc - people we know and trust.  But it is good to count on a company liek Kiva, from which I never heard anything suspicious.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Suljo on March 19, 2010, 18:45
Of course they have to charge interest rates higher than the bank asks them, so they can cover their costs.

Anyhow if they desperate need to cover their cost under few percent under shark loans depend in which country I dont want to lend my money without any interest. I need to cover my cost too e.g. In first transaction bank or payment processor will grab few percent just for transaction and for withdraw too.
If Kiva or other wanabee benefactors cant offer lenders few percent of interest to cover lenders costs it is not place for me.
Maybe selfish from my side but for me it seems more selfish from Kiva and others...

I will prior to give money as gift e.g. buy lunch for kids in Africa or some similar program but not to Kiva with that conditions.
I just wonder how they personal earnings are. It looks that they have about 10.000$ per month while average earnings in that country is about 1 or few $ a day and they are acting a miracle from the sky...
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on April 02, 2010, 20:53
Today I checked my Kiva account and discovered that I have reached 100 paid-back loans. It feels so good to have helped so many people in just 2 years.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Phil on April 02, 2010, 22:38
Today I checked my Kiva account and discovered that I have reached 100 paid-back loans. It feels so good to have helped so many people in just 2 years.

congrats!!!

(we made our 50th loan last week, that felt good too ( and we started because of you comments here, so you could count some more too)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on June 17, 2010, 21:20
I have not seen Burundi in Kiva before, and decided to pick them for a loan today, cpunting towards our MSG Kiva group.

http://www.kiva.org/lend/208536 (http://www.kiva.org/lend/208536)

I hope others here will help finance this loan.

My second choise was this group in Uganda, through a field partner that has a longer record in Kiva, but I had already finished my credit balance:

http://www.kiva.org/lend/207592 (http://www.kiva.org/lend/207592)
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: Suljo on June 17, 2010, 22:50
I really dont know what is going about there.
About 50 peoples in photo needs 5000$
Is it so complicated to do what they need by themselves or it is better that "me" or "your" under "famous" Kiva which black mail them with our money?????????
And I think that employees on Kiva has more than 5000$ for it "service" every month.
Blahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: FD on June 19, 2010, 14:39
I really dont know what is going about there. About 50 peoples in photo needs 5000$ ... Blahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I'd better keep my mouth shut but you are right. After Maria's post last March, I checked out some "projects" in Northern Mindanao, where I happen to live a large part of the year. I particularly checked out a couple of projects in places I have very good contacts. Those projects smelled... (deleted) ... Don't want to spend money on a Kiva-lawyer, although I can prove my points.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on June 19, 2010, 15:51
There will be always people taking advantage of other people's good will. Microcredit is however a well established way of helping those who can not get a regular loan with a bank. And, unlike donations, you get your money back, losing only the interest you would have made along the time.

FD, I'd be curious to know if your suspicions regard Kiva or the local partner (PM me, if you want).
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: gostwyck on June 19, 2010, 15:56
I particularly checked out a couple of projects in places I have very good contacts. Those projects smelled... (deleted) ... Don't want to spend money on a Kiva-lawyer, although I can prove my points.

I'm disappointed to hear this. Is it possible you can give some general indication of what issues concern you? I doubt that Kiva are minded to instruct expensive lawyers anyway as they are themselves a non-profit organisation. It's not as if they have serious vested interests of their own at stake.

I've lent on a few projects and it has all seemed above board to me. All my loans so far have been repaid in full and usually early. Other than the voluntary donations to Kiva for administration purposes at the start of the loan it has cost me nothing.

There is always a cost to raising money for charity and naturally that cost tends to be much higher when the charity is based in the Western world. Kiva seems to be a relatively efficient means of loaning much needed money to hard-working people to improve their lives. It is always entrepreneurial people who are prepared to take risks who improve the lives of those in their communities.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: madelaide on September 15, 2010, 21:15
Another loan in our MSG Lending Team:  Ivarat Abdieva's Group (http://www.kiva.org/lend/230524), from Kyrgyzstan. US$1075 still needed.
Title: Re: Kiva.org Loans
Post by: FD on September 16, 2010, 10:36
I'm disappointed to hear this. Is it possible you can give some general indication of what issues concern you? I doubt that Kiva are minded to instruct expensive lawyers anyway as they are themselves a non-profit organisation. It's not as if they have serious vested interests of their own at stake. ... It is always entrepreneurial people who are prepared to take risks who improve the lives of those in their communities.
Sorry for my late reply. At that time I was on travel, then back in Europe. I can't judge projects in other countries than the Philippines, just the two I saw in Northern Mindanao. It was about two local convenience stores or sari-sari shops. I could write a book about the economy of those but to be short: it's the kind of little enterprises that lose money and that magically stay afloat, since a cousin in Dubai or the US (better) shoulders the losses. Sari-sari stores are just to keep mom and grandmom busy.

They buy their stuff not even with a wholesaler but in another shop in town, and they carry it all back home by public transport (jeepneys) where they sell it 10% higher. Considering some goods will expire, eaten by mice and rats, stolen, robbed, - 10% is not profitable. But those people never count their working hours. Gross income for a Filipino = profit. The whole country lives on that assumption. Must be microstockers.  ;)

When a sari-sari store at a location is successful (= breaks even without working hours and investment in the store, or has a minor loss), people in the neighborhood get jealous or curious, and one of them will build a crap sari-sari store nextdoors, then another one at the other side of the road. Those 3 will compete each other to death lowering their prices till none makes even a profitable cash-flow. Luckily, there are the cousins in Dubai and the US sending them money from time to time to survive. The whole scheme is not business, but keeping people busy to fight boredom.

I had a look at the local partner of KIVA, and I read the blog of a girl that was a KIVA field officer for a while in my area. It was a tourist that probably never went to the remote villages where the NPA (Maoist guerrillas) rules. The stories on her blog sounded quite naive. The collectors drove by motorcycle in that area and never got robbed, carrying fortunes (in local terms). Come on. In an area with 70-80% unemployment, desperados have all the time to follow you and rob you for 10$. Yet, on the site, they claimed to have 100% recovery. Come on...

Then, the "entrepreneurs" have to come to the office in the big city to collect the loan. The fare from the faraway village represents 20% of the loan. Come on... if you subtract the fuel and the time of the collectors, it all doesn't make sense. Nothing in the Philippines involving money does make sense. Most of all, any profits are killed by the rampant corruption: bribes to politicians and police take up a lot. I really can't give details or I get evicted.

I subsequently applied to be a KIVA officer online, but it turns out they prefer tourists, and that I had to follow a seminar first in San Francisco. Yeah right. It's certainly not fraud, just ignorance about how money really works and flows in an under-developed poor country. People will sell their soul, their wife, daughters and kids to have some. Apart of foreign money (the cousins and aunties) a part of the cash economy (people don't use banks) thrives on shabu (a drug).

What can you do? Certainly not whine. Misery is so rampant at some places that I spent a lot out of my own pocket, I'm ashamed to say. Sure I have been fooled (and robbed) too, but not as much as the NGO's. At the moment, I'm in contact with a local (Belgian) charity that focuses on the poorest kids and claims to have zero overhead costs. I will insist on my own QC with the recipients myself (or better locals I trust). If anybody is interested, I'll post a follow-up later. It has to do with the only investment that matters in the long run: education. There are grade-schoolers around that had to skip 2 years and idle around in their slums, just because the family can't pay the school uniform (5$) and the school fees.

You have to be very careful though. I heard (from locals) about charity recipients that walk around with iPods (5 months wage of a grade school teachter). How they got it? I have some ideas. Poverty makes some people ingenious and shrewd, and borderline criminal. I heard the same stories from a friend in Chennai (India). Nevertheless, there are many cases of extreme poverty that fall totally under the radar because they don't have a clever "friend" or "cousin" that can write up a proposal for Kiva for a fee of 50%. You need to look for those actively, making your boots dirty.

By long experience, I can only testify that of the large NGO's the Red Cross does the best work in the field. The reason is that the Red Cross works with local volunteers, that know the culture and how money works. By the scale and the experience, the Red Cross also has very good auditing and accountability schemes. The only problem for a donor is that a gift to the Red Cross will apparently disappear in a large pocket, and you can't "feel" your gift did any good. But in my humble opinion, it does much more than a gift to you-know-who.