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Microstock Photography Forum - General => Newbie Discussion => Topic started by: Dennis Holmes on June 11, 2009, 05:54

Title: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Dennis Holmes on June 11, 2009, 05:54
Can I get advice on what the best (for stock pics) beginers camera would be?
Like the best click for your buck?
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: leaf on June 11, 2009, 06:29
After you choose your brand, Canon or Nikon.  Both are good, I use Canon and the rest of my post refers to Canon cameras.

 I would go with a 100 series body like the 400D, 500D etc.  The functions are a little less accessible than on a 10 series body like the 30D, 40D, 50D but they work very well and are quite cheep.  They would be a good camera to start with.  If you are going to spend more $$, spend it on the lenses, but to get started try the 50mm 1.8.

Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: MichaelJay on June 11, 2009, 06:30
Can I get advice on what the best (for stock pics) beginers camera would be?
Like the best click for your buck?

With a generic question like this? Probably not, no.

What do you want to do primarily? Model shoots with studio light? Landscape images? Night shots? Macros?

Basically any DSLR will do if you learn how to use it. Probably Canon and Nikon have the largest variety of cameras and accessories, Sony is likely to be called #3 in the market. You can't do anything wrong with any of their DSLR cameras.

But some bridge cameras (non-interchangable but still high quality lense like the Canon G10) will be sufficient as well. Preferrably one that can shoot in RAW mode. Depending on how much you want to shoot and upload, it might be a better choice for beginners.

The key still will be how fast you learn what you can do with the camera of your choice.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: gostwyck on June 11, 2009, 06:34
Any DSLR. Don't even think about P&S __ you will just make life much harder for yourself. Lots of hardly used cheap kit oneBay to be had.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: michealo on June 11, 2009, 07:22
I second Leaf's thoughts, 50 mm on either a cheap Canon or Nikon.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Karimala on June 11, 2009, 08:37
Be aware that the "best click for your buck" for stock is going to cost you in the neighborhood of at least $1,000.  Inexpensive cameras where you just click a button and take a picture don't cut it anymore.  You'll have to spend a lot of money for those clicks to produce anything close to being sellable.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: astrocady on June 11, 2009, 08:38
if you're looking for bang for the buck, don't rule out Pentax.  They recently dropped the price on the k20d so you can now get a 14.5 meg camera with decent lens for $800 or less.  The reviews are good, and there are a couple on this group using them with good results.  I've been looking really hard at this one -- just need a few hundred more 25 cent sales!
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: gbcimages on June 11, 2009, 08:43
How much $ do you have? read upon it and get the best you can afford.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: willie on June 11, 2009, 09:06
I would look for the non top 3, with the established digital technology names: 1) -Samsung , which is actually Pentax.
-Panasonic Lumix , which is actually Leica.
-Sony, which is actually Minolta.

I stay away from Canon, Nikon, as you are paying for the name. Pentax k20d blows the competition away. If you ask any camera salesman, even those who sells Nik and Can will tell you that. Except those who won't, because we do get paid the commission to push the big 2.

Which do I actually sell as a salesman, under my breath? Lumix.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: etienjones on June 11, 2009, 10:41
If Nikon,  start with the D80 which should be relatively cheap these days.  Do yourself a favor and get the camera without the Kit Lens . . .  the fact is,  the quality of these lenses are way below the quality of the camera.  Like mentioned before get the very cheap 50 mm 1:1.8D lens . . .  great quality, low price.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: michealo on June 11, 2009, 10:48
I would look for the non top 3, with the established digital technology names: 1) -Samsung , which is actually Pentax.
-Panasonic Lumix , which is actually Leica.
-Sony, which is actually Minolta.

I stay away from Canon, Nikon, as you are paying for the name. Pentax k20d blows the competition away. If you ask any camera salesman, even those who sells Nik and Can will tell you that. Except those who won't, because we do get paid the commission to push the big 2.

Which do I actually sell as a salesman, under my breath? Lumix.

The value to going with Canon and less so with Nikon is that you will find lots of people whose lens, speedlights, etc you can use

Though Pentax Sony etc may be more reasonably priced right now it is because they have to be to gain market share.


Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: etienjones on June 11, 2009, 10:53
What! just saw the D80 for $350 on the internet . .  boy, the prices for these camera sure fall fast!
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: willie on June 11, 2009, 11:16

The value to going with Canon and less so with Nikon is that you will find lots of people whose lens, speedlights, etc you can use

Though Pentax Sony etc may be more reasonably priced right now it is because they have to be to gain market share.


both statements true. To the latter, all the more reason to get the Pentax Sony etc before they become overpriced. Canon and Nikon do more advertising, and you pay the premium.
I am hard pressed to believe that Leica lenses or Pentax lenses are inferior to Nikon or Canon.

more, for that lesser body of Lumix or Pentax, I end up using the money I save for better quality prime lenses. Even studio equipment. The savings is substantial if you consider the whole battlion of equipment you pay for the Canon or Nikon name.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: astrocady on June 11, 2009, 11:21
the k20 will accept ANY lens ever make by pentax -- so there is lots of good glass out there for this camera and very reasonable prices.  Some may not have auto focus, but with pentax, the image stabilization is build into the body, so you always have that no matter what lens you use.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: michealo on June 11, 2009, 11:24

The value to going with Canon and less so with Nikon is that you will find lots of people whose lens, speedlights, etc you can use

Though Pentax Sony etc may be more reasonably priced right now it is because they have to be to gain market share.


both statements true. To the latter, all the more reason to get the Pentax Sony etc before they become overpriced. Canon and Nikon do more advertising, and you pay the premium.
I am hard pressed to believe that Leica lenses or Pentax lenses are inferior to Nikon or Canon.

more, for that lesser body of Lumix or Pentax, I end up using the money I save for better quality prime lenses. Even studio equipment. The savings is substantial if you consider the whole battlion of equipment you pay for the Canon or Nikon name.


Or because Sony don't make any money from selling dslrs they could exit the business leaving you with a lot of equipment with no upgrade plan....
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: willie on June 11, 2009, 11:32
the k20 will accept ANY lens ever make by pentax -- so there is lots of good glass out there for this camera and very reasonable prices.  Some may not have auto focus, but with pentax, the image stabilization is build into the body, so you always have that no matter what lens you use.

Astrocady wins a heart !  ,,,which also makes the lenses you buy less expensive.
Also, K20D has the extended dynamics which saves you the bracketing for getting those ED shots by using a combo ISO of say, 200-400.

But don't forget Lumix is quite formidable too. Leica lenses are hard to beat. Anyone who has been in photography will know that Leica never advertises for the consumer market because they "don't have to". Also,  being with Panasonic means your Lumix camera has HD compatibility with Panasonic HD visual equipment.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: travelstock on June 11, 2009, 11:54
Why is it that there are so many people who only seem to think there are 2 companies making DSLRs? Life doesn't begin and end with Canon and Nikon, and depending on what you do with your camera they're often not the best choices.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: melastmohican on June 11, 2009, 13:51
If you are asking you are probably beginner. Get cheapest DSLR in store (can be used) and start learning. After a while you would know what you need.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: WarrenPrice on June 11, 2009, 14:11
I have a Panasonic Lumix (prosumer) and the Nikon D80.  Each is a fine camera but my biggest regret in converting to digital is NOT buying a full frame (FX) sensor from the get go.  The larger the sensor the better the quality.

Both Canon and Nikon have "affordable" FX cameras.

And, as other have already said, buy the best lenses.  They will appreciate as your camera depreciates.

Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: OM on June 11, 2009, 19:10
Get a lightly-used Canon 5D and 50mm f1.8 lens + adapter for old Olympus OM/or Leica R lenses. Those lenses now cost buttons on feebay (stay away from the real exotica) and as long as you don't mind manual, stop-down operation, you're init2winit for optical quality.IMHO.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Dennis Holmes on June 12, 2009, 02:59
If you are asking you are probably beginner. Get cheapest DSLR in store (can be used) and start learning. After a while you would know what you need.

Yes sorry complete novice I know you point the big circle bit to the front and the square thing you look through to the back.....
I snuck up from the illustrators section. I'm a cartoonist and will be setting up my own site to sell me clipart. I'm planning on going on a trip around Australia (6 - 8 months time) I thought I may be able to throw a few pic's on the site as well as some sketches.

What I plan to photograph would be landscape, Flora, fauna.

I know nothing about cameras. (sorry how basic the question first was, I blame it on my medication  :-[)
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: litifeta on June 12, 2009, 03:14
ditto to what Leaf said. I had a Canon 300D for years, then a 30D and now a 5D.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Dennis Holmes on June 12, 2009, 03:50
Can I get advice on what the best (for stock pics) beginers camera would be?
Like the best click for your buck?

With a generic question like this? Probably not, no.

What do you want to do primarily? Model shoots with studio light? Landscape images? Night shots? Macros?

Basically any DSLR will do if you learn how to use it. Probably Canon and Nikon have the largest variety of cameras and accessories, Sony is likely to be called #3 in the market. You can't do anything wrong with any of their DSLR cameras.

But some bridge cameras (non-interchangable but still high quality lense like the Canon G10) will be sufficient as well. Preferrably one that can shoot in RAW mode. Depending on how much you want to shoot and upload, it might be a better choice for beginners.

The key still will be how fast you learn what you can do with the camera of your choice.
Yeah sorry it was very vague. A bridge camera is an all in one?
I'm confused by all of this. I'll start Googling what you kind people have said and creep back down to the illustrators section.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: dbajurin on June 12, 2009, 04:05
I think for your purpose the best camera is Olympus 400 seris with basic lens in a kit. It is lightweight camera for traveling and on auto mode (P) you can make a lot of good pictures. I started with one of these cameras and I have been illustrator also. Now I switch to Canon 5DMkII but Olympus has payed most of this Canon.
http://www.olympus-europa.com/consumer/dslr_digital_slr_e-450_21270.htm (http://www.olympus-europa.com/consumer/dslr_digital_slr_e-450_21270.htm)
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: TimAck on June 12, 2009, 04:07
If you can afford it get a camera you can grow into, I unwisely got the Nikon D60 and while it is a good camera it is a bit lacking in some areas, no AEB, only AF-S lens Auto Focus, noise at higher ISO etc.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Phil on June 12, 2009, 05:05
imo the brand is totally irrelevant.  there isnt a dslr on the market that will not do what you want it do (I doubt if there has been one made that you couldnt successfully use for stock - does any have bad iso100-200)

many of my best selling photos were shot with a 6mp pentax ds worth au$200-$300 on ebay, a number of them were shot with 1 of 2 lenses I bought from a pawn shop for $35 each (of course you have to know what you are buying and then the limitations of the lens (or be lucky :)). Every micro library will still quite happily take images from this camera (or any other 6-8mp camera).

every brand has its advantages and disadvantages but if your looking for your first dslr brands really are irrelevant. You'll enjoy the advantages and learn to shoot and work around the disadvantages just like the millions of other people using the brand you chose. Nikon / Canon / Sony / Oly / Panasonic / Pentax I dont think any of them are going anywhere in a hurry and when you are starting there is always an upgrade path and your investment at least for a while isnt going to be real big so changing brands later isnt really a major problem. 

Every brand has some real gem lens that can be had for a 'relative' bargain :) (and every brand has some badly overpriced dogs). Its usually pretty easy to find out what they are (pretty much all the 50mm primes, tamron 28-75 etc)

personally I tell everyone to go to a shop that has a good stock, I usually ignore the saleperson because when a pentax shooter and now sony i get sick of the you can only take good photos with Canon or Nikon (whichever the salesperson shoots or gets higher commision) or the bimbo's (I dont know the male version of bimbo?) who know nothing. Anyway go have a play, which one feels good, which one do you like, thats the one you will want to use and enjoy using and so take the best photos with :) or if on a budget go have a play work out which one, go onto dpreview found out the predecessors ie canon 500->400->300 (not sure of actually numbers I dont get into gear too much) then go on ebay and see what you can pick up an earlier model for (you can always list it again 6 months later after you've had a good play or after you've worked out what you are really looking for :))

cut your camera budget and put the moeny into your lenses (always more important than the camera), 1 good lens is better than 5 poor ones.

well thats my 10c, no matter who you ask you will get a different answer :) and no matter what you buy someone will tell you that you made the wrong choice and that the other people giving you advice is full of garbage :):)
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Dennis Holmes on June 12, 2009, 05:31
I was looking at this - Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1- I think it would suit a noob like myself?

I know it's limited in allot of ways, but for special reasons I need simplicity.


Probably ok for a starter, yeah?
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Phil on June 12, 2009, 06:52
wow its little :)  (which can be cool when you've carried 19kg backpack of gear around all day).
I saw a little while back that michael reichman of luminouslandscape.com has one I think (personally a pretty good recommendation, but I sure someone will come along and say otherwise :)).
I think (without knowing much about it) it is designed partly as a bridge cam (going from point and shoot to dslr), therefore I'd expect it to be easy to use, personally the veiwfinder (and reliance on liveview) would rule it out for me, but if you arent used to using a viewfinder / dslr then it wouldn't be a big deal.
I wouldnt expect it to be great for high iso (but dont really know) but then stock is pretty much all low iso so irrelevant for stock (unless you decide to become a concert photographer etc instead :)).
My only concern would be lens and accessory availability, check what your after currently exists (i had a quick look, didnt see a macro lens?)
 
anyway looks like good fun :)
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Dennis Holmes on June 12, 2009, 08:13
Here is a link. Looks like you can get attachment lenses
-http://www.cnet.com.au/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh1-339295275.htm

Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Dennis Holmes on June 12, 2009, 08:16
wow its little :)  (which can be cool when you've carried 19kg backpack of gear around all day).
I saw a little while back that michael reichman of luminouslandscape.com has one I think (personally a pretty good recommendation, but I sure someone will come along and say otherwise :)).
I think (without knowing much about it) it is designed partly as a bridge cam (going from point and shoot to dslr), therefore I'd expect it to be easy to use, personally the veiwfinder (and reliance on liveview) would rule it out for me, but if you arent used to using a viewfinder / dslr then it wouldn't be a big deal.
I wouldnt expect it to be great for high iso (but dont really know) but then stock is pretty much all low iso so irrelevant for stock (unless you decide to become a concert photographer etc instead :)).
My only concern would be lens and accessory availability, check what your after currently exists (i had a quick look, didnt see a macro lens?)
 
anyway looks like good fun :)

I dunno - viewfinder / dslr
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: MichaelJay on June 12, 2009, 08:46
I was looking at this - Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1- I think it would suit a noob like myself?
I know it's limited in allot of ways, but for special reasons I need simplicity.
Probably ok for a starter, yeah?

I've seen prices around $1600 which is far above a entry-level camera. And the accessories might be a bit limited yet but certainly will become bigger if the FourThirds standards gains some more market share. Though you probably will be limited to the format which is even smaller than the usual APS-C sized sensors. Smaller sensor means denser pixels and is likely to produce more noise in less-than-perfect conditions.

If you settle for this camera, I would avoid to make any further investments even if you feel limited later on. It's pretty common that you start with a camera and kit lense and will find reasons to buy more glass, flash, remote trigger whatever after 6 - 12 months. You can certainly do so with the Lumix but you will always be bound to FourThirds while Canon, Nikon, Sony at least offer that you can invest in full frame lenses from the beginning even when you only have an APS-C sensor in your camera. That's why I would recommend to stick with one of those three brands.

Also - if you are willing to spend $1600, you will be better off by buying a cheaper entry-level camera and one or two excellent lenses.The lenses are more important to the image quality than the camera. And they will last much longer than the body.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: leaf on June 12, 2009, 09:13
Here are a few products we are talking about.


The G10
(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/583955.jpg) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/583955-REG/Canon_2663B001_PowerShot_G10_Digital_Camera.html?BI=1878&KW=&KBID=2528)
A great little camera and one that I would really like to get, and is great for travelling since it is so small BUT it would be frustrating to try and do stock with it.  It still has a small sensor and you would for sure have to shoot everything ISO 100 and probably downsize to get things accepted.  It is a great camera but it is STILL a point and shoot.  That said, if having a bigger camera is going to make you not bring your camera, then this is a very good compromise.


next up is the Canon 1000D
(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/571144.jpg) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/571144-REG/Canon_2762B003_EOS_Rebel_XS_a_k_a_.html?BI=1878&KW=&KBID=2528)
A great starter DSLR, does everything the others do and is small.



Canon 450D
(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/542177.jpg) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542177-REG/Canon_2756B001_EOS_Rebel_XSi_Digital.html?BI=1878&KW=&KBID=2528)
A small step up in resolution but a very similar camera to the 1000D



Canon 50D
(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/580462.jpg) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/580462-REG/Canon_2807B006_EOS_50D_SLR_Digital.html?BI=1878&KW=&KBID=2528)
Great camera, has very accessible controls, similar functions to the 5D series camera, but a smaller sensor.


Canon 5D
(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/583953.jpg) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/583953-REG/Canon_2764B003_EOS_5D_Mark_II.html?BI=1878&KW=&KBID=2528)
The big selling point of the 5D is the sensor size.  it is full frame 35mm which means very little noise.  The new 5D mark II also takes video and has less noise and more resolution than the regular 5D
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: leaf on June 12, 2009, 09:17
and here is the 50 f/1.8 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-USA/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html?BI=1878&KW=&KBID=2528) lens that was mentioned.  Cheap, sharp and a great lens to learn with.  You would be much better off with this lens than the kit lens some cameras come with.

(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/12142.jpg) (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-USA/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html?BI=1878&KW=&KBID=2528)
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Dennis Holmes on June 12, 2009, 09:36
and here is the 50 f/1.8 ([url]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-USA/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html?BI=1878&KW=&KBID=2528[/url]) lens that was mentioned.  Cheap, sharp and a great lens to learn with.  You would be much better off with this lens than the kit lens some cameras come with.

([url]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/12142.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-USA/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html?BI=1878&KW=&KBID=2528[/url])


Like this? http://www.citiwideonline.com/au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=2646&category_id=107&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1&vmcchk=1&Itemid=1 (http://www.citiwideonline.com/au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=2646&category_id=107&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1&vmcchk=1&Itemid=1)
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Dennis Holmes on June 12, 2009, 09:45
I really need it to be easy to use.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Dennis Holmes on June 12, 2009, 10:00
I was looking at this - Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1- I think it would suit a noob like myself?
I know it's limited in allot of ways, but for special reasons I need simplicity.
Probably ok for a starter, yeah?

I've seen prices around $1600 which is far above a entry-level camera. And the accessories might be a bit limited yet but certainly will become bigger if the FourThirds standards gains some more market share. Though you probably will be limited to the format which is even smaller than the usual APS-C sized sensors. Smaller sensor means denser pixels and is likely to produce more noise in less-than-perfect conditions.

If you settle for this camera, I would avoid to make any further investments even if you feel limited later on. It's pretty common that you start with a camera and kit lense and will find reasons to buy more glass, flash, remote trigger whatever after 6 - 12 months. You can certainly do so with the Lumix but you will always be bound to FourThirds while Canon, Nikon, Sony at least offer that you can invest in full frame lenses from the beginning even when you only have an APS-C sensor in your camera. That's why I would recommend to stick with one of those three brands.

Also - if you are willing to spend $1600, you will be better off by buying a cheaper entry-level camera and one or two excellent lenses.The lenses are more important to the image quality than the camera. And they will last much longer than the body.
The price on that site was Australian dollars.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: GeoPappas on June 12, 2009, 10:10
leaf:

Why didn't you include the Canon T1i/500D?

<a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/613611-REG/Canon_3818B001_EOS_Rebel_T1i_Digital.html" target="_blank">
Canon EOS Rebel T1i
(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images345x345/613611.jpg)[/url]
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: willie on June 12, 2009, 10:17
the best camera for you is the one your hands feel good carrying. it does not have to be the ones everyone is carrying. as the old saying goes about art or whatever skill, "it's not the machine, it's the man behind it".

there are advantages that work for you, such as full frame, higher ISO tolerance,resale value,etc... but these are pretty irrelevant to the artists. most artists or skill craftsman don't buy and sell their equipment. most keep their equipment until it runs out of life. at least i do, and many who taught me do.

leaf and those who say get the 50mm 1.8 lens is undoubtedly the best advice here.
it really does not matter which camera you get, you can get one of the generic makes sigma,etc.. and get that 50 mm 1.8 . (i think). 
as so, the macro lense is also available via sigma, tamron, tokina,etc.

a full frame camera would mean more money. always you need a CMOS sensor that has a resolution 14MP or higher. this means more money.
a non full frame camera would the same resolution 14MP , for example, means more pixel in the smaller frame. more packed pixels in a smaller frame means better resolution. at least that's my understanding.
which is why, if you're getting a full frame sensor, you better settle for the top of the line like Canon has, or else you will be disappointed.

then you have to think about which in camera noise reduction you prefer. some , like Canon does a lot more noise reduction on their JPG format, while others do less in camera processing.

then, like someone else mentioned, there is the in camera stabilization, vs, in the lense. which again means more expensive for the lenses.

really, if you look at where some of the stock sellers with their history goes,
one can truly get away shooting stock with even a 7MP camera with one lense
50mm 1.8.  if you get the exposure correct and use the sweet spot of the lense.
zoom lenses are inferior at best , in comparision to prime lenses. which is why most would recommend getting the best prime lense for your work.
50mm on a full frame would be like 50mm on a 35mm, which is quite useless.
but on a smaller frame camera would be like the ideal portrait lenses giving you 1.5x = 75mm.

so if you add that to say a 200mm prime lense with macro feature. you have enough to last you for stock photography until you grow a beard. lol.

so if you have a limited budget. i would say, get the cheapest body with the highest resolution , and spend more on getting the best lense you can find for that camera.

nikon, pentax, canon, olympus, all make good cameras. to say one is better is like saying there is only one car we should all drive.and you know that is all advertising talk, or status bs.

the camera you should get is the one you can carry with a 200 mm lense you can hand hold steadily at ISO 100-400, and the resolution of 7MP and higher.
and it has to have RAW , so you can shoot it at this format. JPG fine is awesome
if your shots are perfect and does not need post processing . but RAW will save you almost everytime in case you're off a bit

i said a camera you can safely handhold at 200mm, because some of the 200mm
zoom are heavily SOBs. i would n't want to carry it with me even if you paid me .
which goes back to prime lenses.

if you look at the absurdity of a zoom lense, you will understand why only an amateur will want it.  imagine carrying at 28mm lense which is 5 inches long.
and a 75mm that is like a salami??? lol.

if you ever used a zoom lense, you will find you only use a certain focal length and at a certain aperture. why? because that's the only way to get good clean sharp images .  so really, why would you need the rest of it?
if you want a lense for your vacation, yes. the zoom's best.

if you want a lense to make money for stock, go for prime lenses.
cheaper , faster, and less CA and distortion, and less headaches.

hope this helps. now, go to a camera store that has all the brands and handle as many cameras of your choice and buy the one you enjoy carrying.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Dennis Holmes on June 12, 2009, 10:25
http://www.portagadgets.com/australia/product.php?productid=35327 (http://www.portagadgets.com/australia/product.php?productid=35327)


My brain hurts.



I have fibromyalgia. main reason why I need it easy to use.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: willie on June 12, 2009, 11:07
[url]http://www.portagadgets.com/australia/product.php?productid=35327[/url] ([url]http://www.portagadgets.com/australia/product.php?productid=35327[/url])
My brain hurts.
I have fibromyalgia. main reason why I need it easy to use.


it seems to have all that 's needed. don't see why not. so all you need is the 50mm 1.8 and if you need a second prime lense, 200mm with macro .
good luck
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: leaf on June 12, 2009, 11:09
leaf:

Why didn't you include the Canon T1i/500D?

<a href="[url]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/613611-REG/Canon_3818B001_EOS_Rebel_T1i_Digital.html[/url]" target="_blank">
Canon EOS Rebel T1i
([url]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images345x345/613611.jpg[/url])[/url]


thanks, I thought there was a 500D out.  I couldn't find it on BHPHOTO when i was looking before.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: travelstock on June 12, 2009, 12:12
I was looking at this - Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1- I think it would suit a noob like myself?

I know it's limited in allot of ways, but for special reasons I need simplicity.


Probably ok for a starter, yeah?



I could be wrong but I don't think the DMC-GH1 is available yet - most sites are saying it will be available in July and cost about US$1499. Another micro 4/3 camera is going to be announced on Monday by Olympus - so far they're only showing teasers, but it will essentially be a compact camera with a 4/3 size sensor:

(http://43rumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/20090611_225203_1.jpg)

I think essentially it will become a modern version of a rangefinder... but its also not yet available.

The new camera, the DMC-GH1 and the G1 which is available now operate a bit like bridge cameras but have the image quality of a digital SLR because they have a much larger sensor than any compact camera.

Out of currently available cameras, I think the best travel kit is the E620 with 14-42 and 40-150mm lenses.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/607510-REG/Olympus_262162_E_620_SLR_Digital_Camera.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/607510-REG/Olympus_262162_E_620_SLR_Digital_Camera.html)

If you want HD video, I'd wait for the DMC-GH1 - it will actually have a lens that is designed for video.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: eric.zx on June 12, 2009, 12:27
What are your thoughts on Nikon D40 compared to other entry-level cameras?
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: photosoup on June 12, 2009, 17:13
I started my younger days with analog Nikon. Getting my feet into digital world, I went through a pile of p&s cameras, including Fuji, Kodak, Olympus, Nikon and Canon. I was really happy with Canon G1 at the time. Which lead me to G2, G5, a 300D, 400D, 30D, 40D, now 5D and I'm getting a Canon G10 soon.

I've used a friend's G9 for the past year and have no problem getting some shots accepted in both SS and IS. My workflow with G9 is to shot RAW, iso100, downsample to about 6 MP.

Good luck with whatever you choose!
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Dennis Holmes on June 12, 2009, 20:36
Do most of you use Mac computers. I know it's a little of subject but somethings just don't go together. And I'm my mind it relates to what I buy  as well.

I'll try and explain...stick with me. I use an Imac, it's 4 years old now. I've only had to have it fixed once and I don't need to worry about viruses.
The problem that I've outgrown it and appart from a little extra ram and a bigger hard drive that is the best I can do for it.


I forgot what my point was. :-[


Oh yeah, I think it was reliability, ease to use but also being able to upgrade components.


I guess you also need to pay more for brand and quality.


Are there any compatibility issues with cameras and Macs?




Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: epixx on June 12, 2009, 23:54
The best bargain out there right now is the Pentax K20D. You can have them as low as $650. It has 14MP, full weather sealing (as have a number of their lenses), one of the best viewfinders etc. The reason for the low price is mostly the launch of the new Pentax K7, which has more or less the same sensor, but is smaller but even better built and faster. Pentax makes some of the best lenses you can find, but they are mostly less expensive than Canikon.

Apart from that, all the DSLRs out there are good, although some will fit better in your hand than others.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: travelstock on June 13, 2009, 00:08
Do most of you use Mac computers. I know it's a little of subject but somethings just don't go together. And im my mind it relates to what I buy  as well.

I'll try and explain...stick with me. I use an Imac, it's 4 years old now. I've only had to have it fixed once and I don't need to worry about viruses.
The problem that I've outgrown it and appart from a little extra ram and a bigger hard drive that is the best I can do for it.


I forgot what my point was. :-[

Of course. I shudder at the thought of having to use windows Vista...
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Phil on June 13, 2009, 01:27
whereabouts are you Dennis?

I just googled you see 07 area code, are you in Brisbane? if so there seems to be about 6-8 camera shops within about 3 streets, head into there and have a play, which one is easy partly on you (pentax sometimes criticised for poor layout, yet I always found it reasonably clear and logical).

Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Dennis Holmes on June 13, 2009, 02:11
whereabouts are you Dennis?

I just googled you see 07 area code, are you in Brisbane? if so there seems to be about 6-8 camera shops within about 3 streets, head into there and have a play, which one is easy partly on you (pentax sometimes criticised for poor layout, yet I always found it reasonably clear and logical).



Gold Coast. Where are you? Finding the right sales person is the problem.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Phil on June 13, 2009, 22:44
lovely cold armidale :(

sorry cant be much help with the salespeople :)
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Squat on June 15, 2009, 10:56
The best bargain out there right now is the Pentax K20D. You can have them as low as $650. It has 14MP, full weather sealing (as have a number of their lenses), one of the best viewfinders etc. The reason for the low price is mostly the launch of the new Pentax K7, which has more or less the same sensor, but is smaller but even better built and faster. Pentax makes some of the best lenses you can find, but they are mostly less expensive than Canikon.

Apart from that, all the DSLRs out there are good, although some will fit better in your hand than others.

actually it was you who got me to get the K20D. and I am crazy for it since .
also, I am basically just using one lense . the FA 50mm 1.4 ... also the one you recommended.

You don't know how incredible this lens and camera is to me. SHooting predominantly using EXtended Dynamic ISO . And most of the stuff are not even post processed other than the basic RAW photoshopping.

Thanks again Epixx !

Oh, and if sales at Fotolia keep up (Knock on wood ... more Extended licenses)...I will get that wide angle prime for my Christmas exotic tour vacation  8)
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: luceluceluce on June 16, 2009, 16:10
i think the reality will probably be that you won't know what you want until you've shot a bit more.... probably most people go along the 'buy the most reasonably priced entry-level dslr' route and then upgrade when they know what their needs are.

Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Squat on June 17, 2009, 08:45
i think the reality will probably be that you won't know what you want until you've shot a bit more.... probably most people go along the 'buy the most reasonably priced entry-level dslr' route and then upgrade when they know what their needs are.



good point. But it doesn't have to be entry level. Getting last year's model of a prosumer DSLR would not cost much nowadays. Each time a new model comes out, the previous model half in price. So I would say wiser to get last year, or the previous years' model. example is the Olympus E series. the E300 I paid over 1.5K in 2005 is now no more than 300 dollars .
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: travelstock on June 21, 2009, 23:14
i think the reality will probably be that you won't know what you want until you've shot a bit more.... probably most people go along the 'buy the most reasonably priced entry-level dslr' route and then upgrade when they know what their needs are.



good point. But it doesn't have to be entry level. Getting last year's model of a prosumer DSLR would not cost much nowadays. Each time a new model comes out, the previous model half in price. So I would say wiser to get last year, or the previous years' model. example is the Olympus E series. the E300 I paid over 1.5K in 2005 is now no more than 300 dollars .

Hey a current model E420 is $279 at B&H... I think you're being a bit optimistic with $300 for the E300.... :)
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: skipper on July 03, 2009, 20:58
hi guys,
need some advice, my sony cam powershot dsc 650 has a problem with lenses, a lot of green pixels
I'm thinking now of a canon 1000 D , any advice regarding this one ?
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Squat on July 04, 2009, 13:18
i think the reality will probably be that you won't know what you want until you've shot a bit more.... probably most people go along the 'buy the most reasonably priced entry-level dslr' route and then upgrade when they know what their needs are.



good point. But it doesn't have to be entry level. Getting last year's model of a prosumer DSLR would not cost much nowadays. Each time a new model comes out, the previous model half in price. So I would say wiser to get last year, or the previous years' model. example is the Olympus E series. the E300 I paid over 1.5K in 2005 is now no more than 300 dollars .

Hey a current model E420 is $279 at B&H... I think you're being a bit optimistic with $300 for the E300.... :)

no exaggeration holgs. i was at henry's opening of their halifax new centre, and these were the prices
on their flyer:
E510 with lens kit 399C$
E620D with lens 649C$ with trade in of E510 or 500.
a trade in for my e300 with 2 zooms was almost not enough to even buy me a prime lens for my Pentax k20D. so i decided to keep them as a backup camera and 2 zoom lenses.  this was  back on april 25th...
This in canadian currency, which is about 85centsUS on foreign exch +-
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: puravida on July 04, 2009, 13:29
hi guys,
need some advice, my sony cam powershot dsc 650 has a problem with lenses, a lot of green pixels
I'm thinking now of a canon 1000 D , any advice regarding this one ?

Not sure what you mean by green pixels. Can you put a shot here to demonstrate? Are you sure it's not the sensor, rather than the lense? Did you contact Sony Support on this? Perharps there is already a firmware to correct this.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: graficallyminded on July 06, 2009, 09:31
What about a second hand Canon 20D?  $200-300 and $100 more for the battery grip if wanted.  It was my first slr, and still shoot with it to this day :)  Very easy to learn on.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: RacePhoto on July 06, 2009, 10:50
Can I get advice on what the best (for stock pics) beginers camera would be?
Like the best click for your buck?



Pocket camera / compact = Canon G10, 14mp shoots raw, small enough tat you can use it for everything if you decide stock isn't for you. ISO 80 and shoots RAW if you decide to go that route. Basically all the functions of a DSLR but you aren't viewing through the lens. Under $500 new
http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=3775&review=canon+powershot+g10 (http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=3775&review=canon+powershot+g10)

G9 $350 used, which isn't too expensive?

Canon 40D used and like people said get the 50mm "nifty 50" for a great starter lens. Under $700 I'd prefer this to the 50D and it takes just as good pictures.

What you'll find with a DSLR as people have mentioned is the camera is just the start. Good lenses will cost as much as, or more than the camera. You can get a used 20D or 30D for under $300 and a 70-200 Non-IS f/4 which is as sharp as the f/2.8 and if you don't need IS, it's a really nice zoom range, under $500. Around $800 for lens and camera. f/4 is not really a slow lens, it's just not a "fast" lens.  :D

Nikon makes similar models of the DSLRs if that's your flavor of choice. Parts, repairs and used lenses for Canon or Nikon are easy to find.

While full frame is nice, you can always move up after you test the market and see what you find. 5D will cost over $1100 used, without a lens. That's not budget in anyone's book.

Most of all, after all this, what are you planning on shooting? The equipment needs to match your subject. The above is a generic response.

Any P&S will not give you the control and options that you need for shooting marketable stock, especially for a starter. Understanding and controlling lighting is more important than the brand and model of camera you use.

Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: willie on July 06, 2009, 13:42
racephoto more or less has covered the basics for you, so i won't repeat it.
one thing not mentioned yet is the equivalence to 35mm. be aware that if your DSLR is full frame sensor, you lens is not 1.5x of 35mm. meaning spending all that money on a dedicated full frame sensor lens will mean wysiwyg. 200mm =200mm.
whereas getting a less than full frame sensor DSLR your lenses  will be 1.5x so your reach will be longer as a FL of 200 mm will mean 300mm in the 35mm equiv.

is this important? i think so, esp with a high res 1.5x DSLR, you probably do more with it spending far less , saving the money for equipment or lights rather than
just carrying the top of the line.
also, as racephoto mentioned, what you shoot.

i was brought up on nothing but nikon Fs , + viewcams and medium format top of the line rolleiflex, sinar, and RF leicas. however, for microstock and field work, i selected a  K20D which is more than all i need as i shoot portraits. i don't need the equivalent canon or nikon, like say race would need for speed.
also the tradeoff, some things that the nikon and canon don't have are found in olympus, pentax, linux,sony, or their partners panasonic, samsung,minolta..
such as liveview, HDMI, smaller, compact, moisture and dust sealing, auto cleaning, etc.. all at a much lower cost to not burn a hole in your wallet.


Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: RacePhoto on July 06, 2009, 22:41
I don't know Sony or Panasonic so I left that out, They may very well be the answer.

As for the "crop" camera, there's a misconception that the same lens with the same focal distance to the same film plane, somehow magically becomes a longer lens. Hey guess what, if it's a 300mm, it's still a 300mm! The sensor is smaller and "Crops" the image. If there's an advantage to the crop sensor, it's that you are getting the image from the center of the lens and won't get aberrations or soft edges as much as a full frame image.

What changes is the field of view, which appears as if it was a longer lens. You do not get more lens from a crop camera than a full frame, you get the identical image! It's just that you lost 60% of the edges.

If that doesn't explain it, imagine: you take a picture of a basketball on your crop camera and the ball is 1cm wide on the sensor. You take a picture with the same lens, same distance, same everything, on a full frame camera and the ball is still 1 cm on the sensor.

Crop cameras do not bring you closer to anything, it's a visual perception because the field of view is narrow.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: willie on July 07, 2009, 14:05
The sensor is smaller and "Crops" the image. If there's an advantage to the crop sensor, it's that you are getting the image from the center of the lens and won't get aberrations or soft edges as much as a full frame image.

What changes is the field of view, which appears as if it was a longer lens. You do not get more lens from a crop camera than a full frame, you get the identical image! It's just that you lost 60% of the edges.

If that doesn't explain it, imagine: you take a picture of a basketball on your crop camera and the ball is 1cm wide on the sensor. You take a picture with the same lens, same distance, same everything, on a full frame camera and the ball is still 1 cm on the sensor.

Crop cameras do not bring you closer to anything, it's a visual perception because the field of view is narrow.


Good point racephoto. I never thought of it that way, but you are right.
Also re aberration and edge vignette , barrel, pincushion... comparing a full sensor to a crop sensor, this no doubt emphasizes the need for more superior lens for a full sensor camera, isn't it?
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: RacePhoto on July 07, 2009, 18:50
Good point racephoto. I never thought of it that way, but you are right.
Also re aberration and edge vignette , barrel, pincushion... comparing a full sensor to a crop sensor, this no doubt emphasizes the need for more superior lens for a full sensor camera, isn't it?

Physics and light transmission theory, but I would assume you are correct.  :D

The pixel density doesn't need to be as high with a full frame to get the resolution into a larger space. Same reason why a P&S will often be X megapixels and the pictures are nowhere as clear as an identical resolution APS C and from another planet compared to a full frame sensor. Pixel size and density are more important than just counting them.

I've posted the chart so many times, but I can't find it now. Just figure that a P&S camera is 1/6th the size of a crop sensor, and a full frame is 60% larger than an APS. When some of the new cameras came out, say going from a 10MP to a 12MP resolution, it was pointed out that this was a 17% increase in resolution. Not a whole lot of difference to be paying for. In the case of a full frame, you could have the original 5D at 12.7MP vs the new 50D at 14.1 and the 5D still produce images with less pixel density and should be a sharper image. (although the 50D has a newer sensor design, so the comparison is scientifically flawed) The 50D is roughly the same as a full frame with an 8.6MP sensor.

Real simple, the used 5D MkI @ $118 per pixel should still produce better images than a new 50D @ $100-$118 per pixel.  ;)
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Aetherial on July 08, 2009, 01:44
I've posted the chart so many times, but I can't find it now. Just figure that a P&S camera is 1/6th the size of a crop sensor, and a full frame is 60% larger than an APS. When some of the new cameras came out, say going from a 10MP to a 12MP resolution, it was pointed out that this was a 17% increase in resolution. Not a whole lot of difference to be paying for. In the case of a full frame, you could have the original 5D at 12.7MP vs the new 50D at 14.1 and the 5D still produce images with less pixel density and should be a sharper image. (although the 50D has a newer sensor design, so the comparison is scientifically flawed) The 50D is roughly the same as a full frame with an 8.6MP sensor.

your reasoning is correct until the very end, I suppose it's a typo and you wanted to say that 5D mark II is the same as a crop camera with 8.2mpix sensor. full frame camera spreads pixels over the larger area. crop factor is a linear measure of increase. Canon crop sensor is a 22.3 x 14.9 mm. Full frame camera is 24x36mm. You see, each size of full frame sensor is 1.6 times larger than with crop sensor making it's area 2.56 times greater. 5d mark II has 21mpix, so it's pixels are as big as in 21/2.56 = 8.2mpix crop camera, so apart from  vignetting, fuzzy corners and such things that plague the outer areas of lens coverage, highest resolution dslrs today are no more demanding when it comes to optics than a Canon 20D, because they have the same effective resolution (meaning same number of pixels on the same surface area equals same pixel size) ! "It only want's highest class glass" is actually a myth, what's good for a 20D is good for 5DMkII apart from phenomenon I've mentioned (vignetting etc etc).
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Squat on July 08, 2009, 07:42
I've posted the chart so many times, but I can't find it now. Just figure that a P&S camera is 1/6th the size of a crop sensor, and a full frame is 60% larger than an APS. When some of the new cameras came out, say going from a 10MP to a 12MP resolution, it was pointed out that this was a 17% increase in resolution. Not a whole lot of difference to be paying for. In the case of a full frame, you could have the original 5D at 12.7MP vs the new 50D at 14.1 and the 5D still produce images with less pixel density and should be a sharper image. (although the 50D has a newer sensor design, so the comparison is scientifically flawed) The 50D is roughly the same as a full frame with an 8.6MP sensor.

your reasoning is correct until the very end, I suppose it's a typo and you wanted to say that 5D mark II is the same as a crop camera with 8.2mpix sensor. full frame camera spreads pixels over the larger area. crop factor is a linear measure of increase. Canon crop sensor is a 22.3 x 14.9 mm. Full frame camera is 24x36mm. You see, each size of full frame sensor is 1.6 times larger than with crop sensor making it's area 2.56 times greater. 5d mark II has 21mpix, so it's pixels are as big as in 21/2.56 = 8.2mpix crop camera, so apart from  vignetting, fuzzy corners and such things that plague the outer areas of lens coverage, highest resolution dslrs today are no more demanding when it comes to optics than a Canon 20D, because they have the same effective resolution (meaning same number of pixels on the same surface area equals same pixel size) ! "It only want's highest class glass" is actually a myth, what's good for a 20D is good for 5DMkII apart from phenomenon I've mentioned (vignetting etc etc).

 Cheers too, Aetherial.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: travismanley on July 09, 2009, 12:16
I wrote a blog post about this a little while back that you might find helpful.

http://twcdm.blogspot.com/2009/04/what-kind-of-camera-do-you-need-to-be.html (http://twcdm.blogspot.com/2009/04/what-kind-of-camera-do-you-need-to-be.html)
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: nehbitski on July 10, 2009, 17:39
if you are really low on money, you could just pick one secondhand DSLR that is functioning, and just put your all remaining money on lenses. That'd give you much more flexibility. I have Nikon d50, and well, it works beautifully even after four years, and I have no problem microstocking with it.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Squat on July 10, 2009, 17:47
if you are really low on money, you could just pick one secondhand DSLR that is functioning, and just put your all remaining money on lenses. That'd give you much more flexibility. I have Nikon d50, and well, it works beautifully even after four years, and I have no problem microstocking with it.

Hear ! hear! That has to be the best advice anyone can give to someone starting out. Well spoken !
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: nehbitski on July 10, 2009, 18:01
if you are really low on money, you could just pick one secondhand DSLR that is functioning, and just put your all remaining money on lenses. That'd give you much more flexibility. I have Nikon d50, and well, it works beautifully even after four years, and I have no problem microstocking with it.

Hear ! hear! That has to be the best advice anyone can give to someone starting out. Well spoken !

thanks. Also if you do it my way, you'd better stay away from pentax or sony or etcetera, because you will need lens compatibility and diversity, and canon&nikon duo are the ones with most lenses. by sacrificing autofocus, you may get brilliant pieces of shiny metal-not plastic- quality hardware. in that way, stay away from anything that could narrow down your options, such as d40, d60(which cannot use AF in anything other than lenses with autofocus motor built in to lens, which are pretty rare.) I would buy nikon if I had to buy second hand, because in terms of build quality nikon seems to be far better and should endure longer getting into your hands with far fewer creaks.(IMHO about last part, canon's pretty good too.)
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Squat on July 10, 2009, 19:39

thanks. Also if you do it my way, you'd better stay away from pentax or sony or etcetera, because you will need lens compatibility and diversity, and canon&nikon duo are the ones with most lenses. by sacrificing autofocus, you may get brilliant pieces of shiny metal-not plastic- quality hardware. in that way, stay away from anything that could narrow down your options, such as d40, d60(which cannot use AF in anything other than lenses with autofocus motor built in to lens, which are pretty rare.) I would buy nikon if I had to buy second hand, because in terms of build quality nikon seems to be far better and should endure longer getting into your hands with far fewer creaks.(IMHO about last part, canon's pretty good too.)

Oops, not sure if I agree on this part with you.
Pentax lenses are back compatible with the K20D all the way back to the older lenses. Also , the K20D has the body stablization as opposed to Nik and Can which has stabilization in the lenses.
I don't know about Sony, but I did remember the salesman saying the Sony is back compatible to Minolta lenses as well.

Unless you mean something else when you say lens diversity and compatibility.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: puravida on July 11, 2009, 00:17

thanks. Also if you do it my way, you'd better stay away from pentax or sony or etcetera, because you will need lens compatibility and diversity, and canon&nikon duo are the ones with most lenses. by sacrificing autofocus, you may get brilliant pieces of shiny metal-not plastic- quality hardware. in that way, stay away from anything that could narrow down your options, such as d40, d60(which cannot use AF in anything other than lenses with autofocus motor built in to lens, which are pretty rare.) I would buy nikon if I had to buy second hand, because in terms of build quality nikon seems to be far better and should endure longer getting into your hands with far fewer creaks.(IMHO about last part, canon's pretty good too.)


Oops, not sure if I agree on this part with you.
Pentax lenses are back compatible with the K20D all the way back to the older lenses. Also , the K20D has the body stablization as opposed to Nik and Can which has stabilization in the lenses.
I don't know about Sony, but I did remember the salesman saying the Sony is back compatible to Minolta lenses as well.

Unless you mean something else when you say lens diversity and compatibility.



neversaynever that's a misinformation what you said about Pentax and Sony..

here's an extract from Peter Spiro , a photographer with Istock.
taken from his webpage: http://ca.geocities.com/spirope/pentlens.html (http://ca.geocities.com/spirope/pentlens.html)
===========

One of the great things about the Pentax system is that every bayonet mount lens ever made by Pentax (going back to 1975) can still be used with a high degree of functionality on the most modern Pentax SLR. These lenses can be focussed manually, and used in aperture priority automatic exposure. (Nikon is the only other brand which has allowed its older lenses to be used on modern autofocus cameras, but generally with less metering capability then Pentax.) Hence, it is worthwhile keeping track of the tests of the older lenses. Lenses last much longer than cameras, and many of the older lenses are available in the used market.

Pentax autofocus cameras even provide focus confirmation when used with older manual focus lenses: a green diamond lights up in the viewfinder to indicate the point of correct focus. In the first generation autofocus bodies, the SF series, there was even an arrow that showed what direction the focus ring should be turned in manually to attain focus.

(One important point that should be noted: some non-Pentax brand K-mount lenses have protrusions that will cause them to get stuck when put on an autofocus camera. Ricoh program lenses are especially dangerous. No non-Pentax lens should be put on a Pentax autofocus camera until it has been carefully examined.)

As of December 2004, Pentax has two digital SLR models on the market. They should be given credit for maintaining a greater degree of lens compatibility than any other manufacturer. Any K-mount lens made since 1975 can be used to give aperture priority auto-exposure on a Pentax DSLR with an extra push of a button.

Why is this important? For some kinds of photography (still lifes, scenics, architecture), manual focussing is still ideal, and if you are going to focus manually, it is preferable to have a lens that its designed for it. Nothing beats the smooth precision of the focussing ring on a Pentax M or A lens. Autofocus lenses are made with a much looser mechanism, in order to allow the motors to turn them easily. For this reason, the lens elements are often less well aligned, and optical quality is lower as a result. You won't find any manual focus lenses you can put on a Canon SLR. You can put some older Nikon lenses on a Nikon DSLR, but the exposure meter won't function. This backwards compatibility is a unique and important feature of the Pentax DSLRs. ===============

this article is quite dated but it still applies with the latest K7 pentax and it's predecessor 14.6MP K20D.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: puravida on July 11, 2009, 00:22
and here's an extract on sony and minolta backward compatibility:
taken from http://photo.net/equipment/sony/ (http://photo.net/equipment/sony/)
=========

The Sony system of digital single-lens reflex (SLR) bodies and lenses, built on the bones of the discontinued Konica/Minolta SLR system, is ideal for photographers with a cabinet full of Minolta-mount autofocus lenses.

All Sony digital bodies are "small sensor" bodies and incorporate sensor-based image stabilization. Thus handheld photos taken with any compatible lens, including Minolta film-era lenses, will benefit from reduced camera shake.


The Sony Alpha series is compatible with the numerous Minolta Maxxum A-mount lenses dating back to 1985 (96 lenses and 6 teleconverters). In addition, there are new Sony lenses, three of which have Carl Zeiss optical designs.

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neversaynever, i wouldn't call 96 lenses little compatibility and diversity.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: puravida on July 11, 2009, 00:30
repeat:

You won't find any manual focus lenses you can put on a Canon SLR. You can put some older Nikon lenses on a Nikon DSLR, but the exposure meter won't function. This backwards compatibility is a unique and important feature of the Pentax DSLRs.
(quote/unquote: Peter Spiro , Istock contributor)

Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: nehbitski on July 11, 2009, 13:57
yes, yes I'm sorry, appears that I'm misinformed. It's probably my unconscious interpolating a canon problem to all others. However, yes if not values inserted, nikon offers limited metering, but if you enter lens info, nikon dslr's can meter fully. I can happily accept such compromise if it allows me to use any lens nikon made.

Also, I still think that Nikon and Canon offers most variety of lenses. Since canon is not so backwards friendly, this leaves nikon. Am I wrong? While pentax and minolta do have some pretty decent lenses when it comes to quantity and quality, the big two triumphs.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: GeoPappas on July 11, 2009, 14:53
I've posted the chart so many times, but I can't find it now. Just figure that a P&S camera is 1/6th the size of a crop sensor, and a full frame is 60% larger than an APS.


I'm not sure if one of these has the chart you are talking about, but it shows the size differences for sensors:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0210/02100402sensorsizes.asp (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0210/02100402sensorsizes.asp)

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/key=sensor%20sizes (http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/key=sensor%20sizes)
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: puravida on July 11, 2009, 15:15
yes, yes I'm sorry, appears that I'm misinformed. It's probably my unconscious interpolating a canon problem to all others. However, yes if not values inserted, nikon offers limited metering, but if you enter lens info, nikon dslr's can meter fully. I can happily accept such compromise if it allows me to use any lens nikon made.

Also, I still think that Nikon and Canon offers most variety of lenses. Since canon is not so backwards friendly, this leaves nikon. Am I wrong? While pentax and minolta do have some pretty decent lenses when it comes to quantity and quality, the big two triumphs.

Is it only Canon and Nikon lens that rule? If you believe that, I am sure many Sigma users will laugh at you; many who use Canon and Nikon bodies.

Not quite really. While Nikon and Canon do the most advertising and most salesman , me included get spiffs for selling these two names, no optically informed technician in his right mind is going to dare say that only Canon and Nikon make the best optics.
Pentax , Olympus (Zuiko) , Lumix (Zeiss, Leica),  lenses have been making equally good optics.
There is also the Summicron made by Leica that is far superiror to any of the Canon and Nikon glasses. Yet how many ads do you see , or how many Nikon and Canon proponents even know that lense exist?

only you don't see as much marketing in magazines. Also, writers also get paid to write good things about the products that advertise the most with their magazines. This any marketing consutlant will politely reveal.
It only appears that Canon and Nikon make the best glasses, but that is a marketing perception.
Is a Porsche not as good as a Mercedez or a Volvo? HAs anyone heard of Aston Martin?   
 You would be laughed out of the debate if you think that one brand makes the universe. Same thing that happened a long time ago when some American dude  thinks that his TransAm is better than his friend's Camaro, and never knew that the CooperS and LotusElan existed, simply because he didn't see the ads on either of these much better British cars.
Or touching much closer, in the old days, how often did you see an ad of  Sinar ? or  Rolleiflex  or Leica? You still only saw Nikon and Canon.  But we all knew we didn't have to rely on ads to tell us about Symmar lenses, or Leica , even though all we read about and carried were our Nikon Fs. We still also used the Leica as much.

 It's all a perception, you paid a lot of money for it, you'd better believe it's the best. That's why it cost more, you paid for the ads. As for Summicron, you pay for the glass alone, and not forthe ads or  the spiff Nikon and Canon pay the camera sales people.

Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: willie on July 11, 2009, 15:38
It's like this in any art form. Like music, the best musicians talk about music, the rest keeps writing about how many pedals and sound effect gadget they used. Real drummers talk about rhythm and syncopation, the rest talk about what brands they have and which snare rules. when it all comes down to rhythm, the best drummers were the african tribes and baiano percussionists that bang on archaic and no name boxes, even tin cans.
The instruments and the brands are irrelevant.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: nehbitski on July 11, 2009, 15:52
@puravida actually what you say is true, but I did not say anything about that pentax's or sony's lenses were worse than nikon or canon's. In bold, I said that canon and nikon have more lenses to choose from. I said nothing more. I also agree perseus in saying " a bad sculptor who blames his tools."
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Squat on July 12, 2009, 09:46
How about this unique camera for out of the box images. If you consider that this camera can be used with gloves in winter, and underwater to 10m, shockproof for the amazing clut who is used to dropping SLR.
its 12 MP 28-102 mm zoom (35 mm equiv), much heavier than the usual P&S, for obvious reasons.
Olympus Stylus Tough 8000

Imagine the unique shot of snorkeling, and underwater shots you can get for micro . Definitely could put you into the niche class, which could mean more dls and less competition.  It's a bit pricey for 400 US MFL.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: skipper on July 13, 2009, 06:03
hi guys,
need some advice, my sony cam powershot dsc 650 has a problem with lenses, a lot of green pixels
I'm thinking now of a canon 1000 D , any advice regarding this one ?

Not sure what you mean by green pixels. Can you put a shot here to demonstrate? Are you sure it's not the sensor, rather than the lense? Did you contact Sony Support on this? Perharps there is already a firmware to correct this.
hi Puravida,
sorry
my cam is Sony Cybershot DSC 650 S.
I'm having already two lenses from my Canon film camera EOS REBEL X S
one is Canon Zoom Lens EF 28-80 mm 1:3.5 - 5.6 II
second is Sigma Zoom 100-300 mm 1:4.5 - 6.7 DL
and I would go for a Canon to buy, given I'm already having lenses, just don't know what to start with.
Any advice will be appreciated.

Thanks
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: puravida on July 13, 2009, 09:46
hi Puravida,
sorry
my cam is Sony Cybershot DSC 650 S.
I'm having already two lenses from my Canon film camera EOS REBEL X S
one is Canon Zoom Lens EF 28-80 mm 1:3.5 - 5.6 II
second is Sigma Zoom 100-300 mm 1:4.5 - 6.7 DL
and I would go for a Canon to buy, given I'm already having lenses, just don't know what to start with.
Any advice will be appreciated.

Thanks

There are many Canon users here, so putting this comment will draw some good first hand advice from them.
As for which lens you need , this is what I personally suggest:
1)Make a note of the lenses that whoever comes in here say are awesome.
2) get one of your old memory cards, one that you don't need, or just buy a cheap one.
3) visit your camera stores, and ask to try those lenses.
Let the sales person know you are serious about building up your equipment, if you have a business card better still, give it to that person.  Say you brought a memory card so you can use the XS there, or whatever camera you intend to buy, and use those lenses to shoot around the shop.
Once, I even had the salesperson let me stand outside to shoot a few shots with each lens.
Of course, I am already known to that person, and he knows where to send the cops if I ran away, lol.
But that's my advice. You can then take the card home to view it with your computer.
Then you can decide which lens you want to buy next.
Any review you read is highly subjective. The proof is in your own eye and your own preference.
Many times, some experts tell me xxx lense or  xxx body rules, only for me to go to the shop to find out how much I hate them. Not because they are lousy cameras or lenses, but because they don't feel good shooting in my own hands.
It's like finding a partner. Your friends can tell you xxx is hot, or xxx is hotter, but only you know which  person is best for you.  Cameras and equipment are the same, especially when you consider we probably changed partners more often than we change our camera equipment.

So choose your camera / lenses as carefully as you choose your life partner ;)
Advantage is you can try your cameras and lenses the method I suggested.
Unfortunately, I am not so sure if you can apply that to selecting your future partner , lol..
 
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Squat on July 13, 2009, 10:04
Also, Booggie, re: what puravida said,  here's some additional hints from me as someone who sells pro equip as seasonal :
-don't try this at the mall or large departmental stores. the security will come down hard on you. go to the pro stores , they are used to having pros do this.
- even if the pro stores are more expensive, just do the test.
- check around for the prices, get quotes, and then go back to the pro store to let the salesperson know you had a better price. we always price match.

I like to buy from one person or one store. It builds confidence and many times, we exchange ideas and even get to hear of horror stories about equipment, even some of the top names have lemons.
We all work on commissions, so it is in our mutual interest to be good to our regulars. As a photographer, I do this even when I travel, I have certain stores I favor, and most times, I end up with the cheapest price because I get them to price match my best offer.

In return, I use that extra savings to buy extra stuff from the salesperson ie. mem card, card reader, filters,etc.  or simply put that savings into my next purchase, from the same store and the same sales person.

P.S.
and don't neglect the savings you get from trade in to upgrade.
My fave pro store (which just opened here in my lovely city) is always advertising on trade ins values and even if you can't find the used equipment in this branch, they can get it from another across the country.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: skipper on July 13, 2009, 11:16
Thanks guys,
well I do have an offer for trade in my old cam for

canon 1000 D body only -aprox 500 USD
canon 450 D body only - aprox 745 USD
canon 500 D body only - aprox 1100 USD

best prices OTC in the whole country w/warranty online and best prices in Bucharest as pro stores go, not too much offer here
there would be some stuff on black market but no warranties

unfortunately I can't afford 500D

I do already have lenses, presumably it fit 
I'm not good with all this stuff so can't figure it out what's better to start with
1000 D or 450 D

Thanks again
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Squat on July 14, 2009, 09:56
Thanks guys,
well I do have an offer for trade in my old cam for

canon 1000 D body only -aprox 500 USD
canon 450 D body only - aprox 745 USD
canon 500 D body only - aprox 1100 USD

best prices OTC in the whole country w/warranty online and best prices in Bucharest as pro stores go, not too much offer here
there would be some stuff on black market but no warranties

unfortunately I can't afford 500D

I do already have lenses, presumably it fit 
I'm not good with all this stuff so can't figure it out what's better to start with
1000 D or 450 D

Thanks again


Instead of getting yet another Canon, why not get the Lumix GH1
the first DSLR camera that will video better than any other DSLR . 1080p 24fps , 720p 60fps, in HDTV Stereo , with continuous focusing. Lumix uses Leica lenses so it blows away the competition in that optical grounds too.  The other DSLR that can do videos even the top names cannot do even close to this bugger.

I do not subscribe to the problem of not so many lenses to select. Any professional will tell you he/she  only uses a selection not buy all 60 or 200 different lenses . So the argument that XXX camera has less lenses than Nikon and Canon or Pentax or Sony, is moot.

Why I suggested this, is that you already have all you need for still stock photos. With Lumix GH1 you have the edge over any one else to do video for stock.
Just an out of the box idea .
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: basti on July 14, 2009, 10:47
In fact there is NONE really good and reasonably priced basic zoom on APS-C Canon but psst - everyone knows they are the best :P I have crappy Olympus so Im completely mad when I have tiny noisy sensor and everyone knows that Oly has no really good lenses and even those "not-good" are only few :P  ;D
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: willie on July 14, 2009, 10:56
In fact there is NONE really good and reasonably priced basic zoom on APS-C Canon but psst - everyone knows they are the best :P I have crappy Olympus so Im completely mad when I have tiny noisy sensor and everyone knows that Oly has no really good lenses and even those "not-good" are only few :P  ;D


touche !  ;D

Well, look on the bright side, basti. You can travel all over the world with your Olympus, and won't get robbed. Nobody wants a "lousy cheap" Olympus.  ;D

Seriously, Olympus has been making some of the best and lowest priced cameras and lenses.
Even the dedicated flashes are underpriced compared to the Big 2, or even Pentax.
We all pay for the advertising, or the symbol. Zuiko has been producing optics for scientific instruments long time. I guess it's not good enough for photography ;)

FWIW, somehow Canon cameras have the most trade-ins, even with cameras that are hardly used. The owners tend to keep looking for next year's model, much like xbox or ps,etc.. enthusiasts look for the next game.
The  users of  other makes tend to hang on to their camera longer regardless of next year's model. not sure if there is a significance or not.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: skipper on July 14, 2009, 15:16
Thanks guys,
well I do have an offer for trade in my old cam for

canon 1000 D body only -aprox 500 USD
canon 450 D body only - aprox 745 USD
canon 500 D body only - aprox 1100 USD

best prices OTC in the whole country w/warranty online and best prices in Bucharest as pro stores go, not too much offer here
there would be some stuff on black market but no warranties

unfortunately I can't afford 500D

I do already have lenses, presumably it fit 
I'm not good with all this stuff so can't figure it out what's better to start with
1000 D or 450 D

Thanks again


Instead of getting yet another Canon, why not get the Lumix GH1
the first DSLR camera that will video better than any other DSLR . 1080p 24fps , 720p 60fps, in HDTV Stereo , with continuous focusing. Lumix uses Leica lenses so it blows away the competition in that optical grounds too.  The other DSLR that can do videos even the top names cannot do even close to this bugger.

I do not subscribe to the problem of not so many lenses to select. Any professional will tell you he/she  only uses a selection not buy all 60 or 200 different lenses . So the argument that XXX camera has less lenses than Nikon and Canon or Pentax or Sony, is moot.

Why I suggested this, is that you already have all you need for still stock photos. With Lumix GH1 you have the edge over any one else to do video for stock.
Just an out of the box idea .
Thank you,
it's a good idea surely not for me
1. I can't make good movies , I don't have the patience for it, I get annoyed
2. I just checked prices, it seems over my budget.
Title: Re: Basic beginers camera?
Post by: Buz on September 12, 2009, 19:00
OK.....so you've decided on your camera and lens kit, but that's not all of it. You also  need to consider your computer and software, and internet access, all of which need to be built into the initial setup costs.
Good luck, its worth it for the fun.
BUZ