Find the Vetta

[TheDman]

It seems to me that acceptance into Istock's Vetta Collection seems to be closer to a random coin flip rather than a discerning critique of the quality of a photo. I've uploaded several to that queue in recent months, and haven't had much success. Let's see if I'm wrong: can you pick which of the photos below is the Vetta? Only one of them is.

 

 

[Karimala]

Oooh...nice panorama of San Francisco from Treasure Island.  That's not an easy photo to make, because a hard wind is constantly blowing straight at the camera.

It has to be either the flower or the ocean rocks, because I'm a decent enough photographer to shoot those, but not the other three.   

[Pixart]

Wow, that's a beautiful pano.  

[nruboc]

Ah, great game, I like this one.... no cheating all. It's gotta be the pano, it's gotta be..whatta do I win??

[Karimala]

Wow, that's a beautiful pano.  

It really is beautiful. 

Camera shake from that spot is a given (and I was mistaken about the wind's direction...it comes directly from the right of "The City" through a narrow channel underneath the Golden Gate Bridge).  The wind never stops blowing.  And then there's the courage it takes to drive off the Treasure Island exit from the Bay Bridge just so you can get the shot.  Freaks me out just thinking about it.  Too many speeding cars and not enough lane...gotta slow down fast to make the curve onto the island.

[Karimala]

Ah, great game, I like this one.... no cheating all. It's gotta be the pano, it's gotta be..whatta do I win??

I'm not falling for the lack of watermark.  It can't be that easy...can it?

[Karimala]

On to the next post...

[TheDman]

Oooh...nice panorama of San Francisco from Treasure Island.  That's not an easy photo to make, because a hard wind is constantly blowing straight at the camera.

It has to be either the flower or the ocean rocks, because I'm a decent enough photographer to shoot those, but not the other three.   

You know your shooting locations! That was extremely tough, the wind was so strong you had to yell at the person next to you just to hear each other, and I was using my own body as a human windscreen because otherwise the whole camera and tripod would vibrate. Managed to pull it off though through 8 consecutive shots, and after meticulous stitching this one was accepted into the main collection, landed on page 16 for "San Francisco Skyline", and hasn't even been viewed since it's acceptance in July. So no, it's not the pano, but thanks for the comments!

[TheDman]

Wow, that's a beautiful pano.  

It really is beautiful. 

Camera shake from that spot is a given (and I was mistaken about the wind's direction...it comes directly from the right of "The City" through a narrow channel underneath the Golden Gate Bridge).  The wind never stops blowing.  And then there's the courage it takes to drive off the Treasure Island exit from the Bay Bridge just so you can get the shot.  Freaks me out just thinking about it.  Too many speeding cars and not enough lane...gotta slow down fast to make the curve onto the island.

Hehe, you're spot on about everything! My human windshield strategy could only block about 60% of the wind, because it was coming nearly directly at the camera. Shot it with the Canon 100L macro and had to remove the lens hood because it was acting like a sail. And not being from San Francisco, I first drove through all of the restricted military roads on Treasure Island (and was chased by a truck) before finding this location. I should have asked some locals for advice. 

Lack of a watermark was just so I could show it in a larger size than the tiny istock panoramic thumbnail.

[TheDman]

Wow, that's a beautiful pano.  

Thanks!

[BaldricksTrousers]

The top one, 'cos otherwise it would be rejected as over-filtered.

[Karimala]

Oooh...nice panorama of San Francisco from Treasure Island.  That's not an easy photo to make, because a hard wind is constantly blowing straight at the camera.

It has to be either the flower or the ocean rocks, because I'm a decent enough photographer to shoot those, but not the other three.   

You know your shooting locations! That was extremely tough, the wind was so strong you had to yell at the person next to you just to hear each other, and I was using my own body as a human windscreen because otherwise the whole camera and tripod would vibrate. Managed to pull it off though through 8 consecutive shots, and after meticulous stitching this one was accepted into the main collection, landed on page 16 for "San Francisco Skyline", and hasn't even been viewed since it's acceptance in July. So no, it's not the pano, but thanks for the comments!

So does "no" mean your pano is in the Vetta collection or not?

[Karimala]

Hold on...I have a tendency to read things backwards. 

Are all of these photos yours? 

[TheDman]

Hold on...I have a tendency to read things backwards. 

Are all of these photos yours? 

They are. And the pano is not in the Vetta collection.

[qwerty]

my guess is the river shot

[leaf]

my guess is building - top left.

[Karimala]

Hold on...I have a tendency to read things backwards.  

Are all of these photos yours?  

They are. And the pano is not in the Vetta collection.

Okay...then I'm narrowing my choice down to the rocky ocean shot.  Left corner could benefit from an extra exposure or two...and lately missing a piece or two seems to be the acceptable norm for IS.  

[rubyroo]

I would have guessed the top building or the pano to start with.

But now I'm thinking it must be the one I would least expect it to be, so I'm going to guess it's the flower.

[aeonf]

My bet is the buiding.
Although they are all very nice shots, I don't think any are Vetta worthy.

[Karimala]

Dumb question...how do you find Vetta photos?  Since I'm not exclusive, I haven't bothered to pay attention.  Just been doing my own thing.

[ShadySue]

I would have guessed the top building or the pano to start with.

Yup, me too.
Looking at what's coming in to Vetta, clearly being in the 'in' crowd is more important than anything else.
Unless flared, overfiltered, or the colour's off, I can seldom see the difference between Vettas and lots of non-Vettas in the collection.

[TheDman]

The answer is... the fall river. Qwerty was the only one who got it. Interesting that most people either said the building or the pano. Those are the two that I thought had the strongest case especially when compared to the competition. I wouldn't have even much cared if all of them had been shot down, but the logical side of me struggles with the fact that the river was deemed worth 10x more than the others. Frankly, it's the most easily reproducible of the bunch (save for maybe the flower) - just a quick grab shot while on a hike in the Smokies. Not that I'm complaining though. Of this group, the only one that has sold so far is the Vetta. And I have no doubt that that is because it gets shoved in front of a bunch of eyes.

It might not be so bad that we contributors are confused by the seeming randomness of it all, but I shudder to think how many buyers see things like that, throw up their hands, and head for the next site. There is certainly a segment of the market that's willing to pay for quality, but when the 'quality' merchandise is as hit or miss as it is, the brand suffers.

[contrastaddict]

I just submitted this to Vetta, it got an initial 5 but still didn't make it I don't know what the secret is, but I can't seem to get any more in there.

[qwerty]

Do I win a prize

[Graffoto]

I have a small handful of Vetta's & I can't seem to get anything else in either.

I believe the secret is the difficulty and/or rarity of the image.
Unique location, or unique content or fantastical composting.
In my mind, these are what they want now.

[qwerty]

from my observation Vetta seems better quality than alot of the Agency stuff.

[TheDman]

from my observation Vetta seems better quality than alot of the Agency stuff.

You win the satisfaction of being the most eagle-eyed Vetta scout on MSG. And you're right, Vetta still beats Agency, since a lot of that stuff wouldn't even pass inspection for the main collection. Yet another issue that I'm sure drives customers nuts.

[BaldricksTrousers]

from my observation Vetta seems better quality than alot of the Agency stuff.

You win the satisfaction of being the most eagle-eyed Vetta scout on MSG. And you're right, Vetta still beats Agency, since a lot of that stuff wouldn't even pass inspection for the main collection. Yet another issue that I'm sure drives customers nuts.

With all respect, I think that if an independent had submitted those files they would all have been rejected except for the pano. That doesn't mean they are bad photos, it just means that different requirements seem to apply to indes and exclusives.

[qwerty]

from my observation Vetta seems better quality than alot of the Agency stuff.

You win the satisfaction of being the most eagle-eyed Vetta scout on MSG. And you're right, Vetta still beats Agency, since a lot of that stuff wouldn't even pass inspection for the main collection. Yet another issue that I'm sure drives customers nuts.

If I was an Istock exclusive I'd probably get one of those little badge things for this amazing talent. wooyay ! Istock you rock !  :p

I don't think it drives the customer nuts it
a) Drives them to other sites or
b) they're oblivious to it and it increases their spend 30x

[TheDman]

from my observation Vetta seems better quality than alot of the Agency stuff.

You win the satisfaction of being the most eagle-eyed Vetta scout on MSG. And you're right, Vetta still beats Agency, since a lot of that stuff wouldn't even pass inspection for the main collection. Yet another issue that I'm sure drives customers nuts.

With all respect, I think that if an independent had submitted those files they would all have been rejected except for the pano. That doesn't mean they are bad photos, it just means that different requirements seem to apply to indes and exclusives.

Why so?

[BaldricksTrousers]

Filtration, mostly, and I'm certain they would find some reason to reject the flower if I sent it.

[ShadySue]

I have a small handful of Vetta's & I can't seem to get anything else in either.

I believe the secret is the difficulty and/or rarity of the image.
Unique location, or unique content or fantastical composting.
In my mind, these are what they want now.

Unique location/content doesn't do it, I can testify.

Fantastical composition?  Type in any generic word, push the slider up to 3 (and down to 3 if you like), sort by age and decide for yourself. Depending on the word you choose you may need to remember all the images ingested as Vetta.

[TheDman]

Filtration, mostly, and I'm certain they would find some reason to reject the flower if I sent it.

There's not a whole lot of filtration going on with these though, save for the building which is just an exposure blend. But point taken that anything can seemingly be rejected as 'overfiltered'. Quick search for Cosmos Flower though shows that there are some non-exclusives getting those in, so it looks like it's doable.

[traveler1116]

from my observation Vetta seems better quality than alot of the Agency stuff.

You win the satisfaction of being the most eagle-eyed Vetta scout on MSG. And you're right, Vetta still beats Agency, since a lot of that stuff wouldn't even pass inspection for the main collection. Yet another issue that I'm sure drives customers nuts.

With all respect, I think that if an independent had submitted those files they would all have been rejected except for the pano. That doesn't mean they are bad photos, it just means that different requirements seem to apply to indes and exclusives.

Come on, that's just silly.  Look at the latest accepted photos.

[SNP]

from my observation Vetta seems better quality than alot of the Agency stuff.

You win the satisfaction of being the most eagle-eyed Vetta scout on MSG. And you're right, Vetta still beats Agency, since a lot of that stuff wouldn't even pass inspection for the main collection. Yet another issue that I'm sure drives customers nuts.

With all respect, I think that if an independent had submitted those files they would all have been rejected except for the pano. That doesn't mean they are bad photos, it just means that different requirements seem to apply to indes and exclusives.

Come on, that's just silly.  Look at the latest accepted photos.

agree. can't believe that some contributors here think that they're being singled out. as though iStock has nothing better to do than petty retaliation against independents. really is silly

[BaldricksTrousers]

from my observation Vetta seems better quality than alot of the Agency stuff.

You win the satisfaction of being the most eagle-eyed Vetta scout on MSG. And you're right, Vetta still beats Agency, since a lot of that stuff wouldn't even pass inspection for the main collection. Yet another issue that I'm sure drives customers nuts.

With all respect, I think that if an independent had submitted those files they would all have been rejected except for the pano. That doesn't mean they are bad photos, it just means that different requirements seem to apply to indes and exclusives.

Come on, that's just silly.  Look at the latest accepted photos.

agree. can't believe that some contributors here think that they're being singled out. as though iStock has nothing better to do than petty retaliation against independents. really is silly

I don't think I am being singled out, I think there are two different queues which probably have different inspectors and it would be a simple matter to apply different levels of rigour. I don't spent time examining new uploads so maybe I'm wrong, but it is an impression I got some time ago as a result of some of my own rejections compared with acceptances I saw back then.

Actually, I'm not sure why some people seem able to believe that inspectors will go to the trouble to single out their friends for special treatment and might not single out people they don't like for the opposite treatment, one is no sillier than the other, though I'm not claiming that it happens.

[SNP]

^ I think it would it's human nature to make inspection decisions with some bias--whether it's positive or negative--on a subconscious level. where I think it gets silly is suggesting it is part of their typical, management-sanctioned workflow....

[gostwyck]

^ I think it would it's human nature to make inspection decisions with some bias--whether it's positive or negative--on a subconscious level. where I think it gets silly is suggesting it is part of their typical, management-sanctioned workflow....

Agreed. As an independent I get virtually no rejections from IS nowadays. After 5K-odd submissions I've had more than enough feedback to understand what they will or won't accept. I think they're remarkably consistent considering how many inspectors they have.

[Mantis]

from my observation Vetta seems better quality than alot of the Agency stuff.

You win the satisfaction of being the most eagle-eyed Vetta scout on MSG. And you're right, Vetta still beats Agency, since a lot of that stuff wouldn't even pass inspection for the main collection. Yet another issue that I'm sure drives customers nuts.

With all respect, I think that if an independent had submitted those files they would all have been rejected except for the pano. That doesn't mean they are bad photos, it just means that different requirements seem to apply to indes and exclusives.

Come on, that's just silly.  Look at the latest accepted photos.

agree. can't believe that some contributors here think that they're being singled out. as though iStock has nothing better to do than petty retaliation against independents. really is silly

I don't think I am being singled out, I think there are two different queues which probably have different inspectors and it would be a simple matter to apply different levels of rigour. I don't spent time examining new uploads so maybe I'm wrong, but it is an impression I got some time ago as a result of some of my own rejections compared with acceptances I saw back then.

Actually, I'm not sure why some people seem able to believe that inspectors will go to the trouble to single out their friends for special treatment and might not single out people they don't like for the opposite treatment, one is no sillier than the other, though I'm not claiming that it happens.

According to Donald G at IS, there are indeed different queues, he is part of the independent submission queue and others are part of the exclusive queue.  I can't find the exact post but according to him this is the way they divide the submissions.  So having criteria for one versus the other is entirely possible.

[KB]

According to Donald G at IS, there are indeed different queues, he is part of the independent submission queue and others are part of the exclusive queue.  I can't find the exact post but according to him this is the way they divide the submissions.  So having criteria for one versus the other is entirely possible.

It may be entirely possible, but having spent plenty of time in both queues, I saw no evidence at all that one queue's inspection criteria are different from another.

[Mantis]

According to Donald G at IS, there are indeed different queues, he is part of the independent submission queue and others are part of the exclusive queue.  I can't find the exact post but according to him this is the way they divide the submissions.  So having criteria for one versus the other is entirely possible.

It may be entirely possible, but having spent plenty of time in both queues, I saw no evidence at all that one queue's inspection criteria are different from another.

How could you possibly see it?  The fact that they segregate the queues opens up that possibility.  Ask yourself why Q1 inspects these images and Q2 only inspects these images. Is it for speed only?

[SNP]

honestly, whatever criteria they use to inspect, whatever number of queues they have--to suggest they're using inspection as a means of retaliation is still absurd

[Mantis]

honestly, whatever criteria they use to inspect, whatever number of queues they have--to suggest they're using inspection as a means of retaliation is still absurd

So why segregate?

[traveler1116]

honestly, whatever criteria they use to inspect, whatever number of queues they have--to suggest they're using inspection as a means of retaliation is still absurd

So why segregate?

The exclusive queue is faster, that's one of the tangible benefits of exclusivity so it makes sense to have two queues.  One fast one and one slower one.

[Mantis]

honestly, whatever criteria they use to inspect, whatever number of queues they have--to suggest they're using inspection as a means of retaliation is still absurd

So why segregate?

The exclusive queue is faster, that's one of the tangible benefits of exclusivity so it makes sense to have two queues.  One fast one and one slower one.

Speed is what I suggested originally.  But it is not what I believe.  

[traveler1116]

honestly, whatever criteria they use to inspect, whatever number of queues they have--to suggest they're using inspection as a means of retaliation is still absurd

So why segregate?

The exclusive queue is faster, that's one of the tangible benefits of exclusivity so it makes sense to have two queues.  One fast one and one slower one.

Speed is what I suggested originally.  But it is not what I believe.  

It wouldn't make sense to have everyone in the same queue if exclusive files are supposed to get inspected faster. 

[Karimala]

honestly, whatever criteria they use to inspect, whatever number of queues they have--to suggest they're using inspection as a means of retaliation is still absurd

When I was a reviewer at LuckyOliver, where my name was signed to every review, my fellow reviewers and I were accused of such nonsense on a regular basis.  These folks never stopped to think we'd lose our jobs, if we were caught retaliating or favoring one contributor over another.   

[KB]

It may be entirely possible, but having spent plenty of time in both queues, I saw no evidence at all that one queue's inspection criteria are different from another.

How could you possibly see it? 

How could I possible see it? Perhaps you didn't understand what I meant: Having submitted as both an independent for over 3 years and an exclusive for over a year, I haven't noticed any difference in what I get accepted and what I get rejected. No differences at all.

[BaldricksTrousers]

honestly, whatever criteria they use to inspect, whatever number of queues they have--to suggest they're using inspection as a means of retaliation is still absurd

So why segregate?

The exclusive queue is faster, that's one of the tangible benefits of exclusivity so it makes sense to have two queues.  One fast one and one slower one.

That's right. And another tangible benefit could be different standards particularly if you have different inspection teams. Years ago Gostwyck (who watches these things far, far more closely than I do) pointed out some dreadful stuff that was getting approved for one particular high-ranked exclusive which we both agreed neither of us could get through. If Gostwyck says things have changed and it's the same for everyone, then I accept his assessment (because he watches these things).

I'm sure if it had been said years ago that exclusives would have an easier inspection because they can't put their less good files anywhere else it would have got a big "wooyay" and have been hailed as a right and proper benefit.  Of course that could not be said because it would have run directly against the "excusive content is superior to non-exclusive content" mantra, but I did have the impression that it was something the management kept in mind. Of course, I could be entirely wrong and/or the thinking might have changed (it does seem to have got easier to get acceptances at iS, but then we're all developing our skills, too).

[ProImage]

Hmm, I would go with the river shot