A call to the "Big Players" - Can we tip the scales now?

[lisafx]

I must retract. Sometimes I catch myself in flawed thinking. Its possible having the wrong "big players" would give us big problems. Especially since many of these are used to having things easy.

A very good example is a recent issue where somebody was handed a few advantages so they could say "professionals work with professionals" officially offsetting the damage done by another honest person who stated people's images were being given away by that very same "professional" company. Sometimes the big players are just used as distractions so that hundreds of small ones can make stupid decisions. Unfortunately while symbiostock has much to offer, unfair advantages are not one of those things.

Another thing is by stating we need more "big players" I am really taking away credit from the enormous players that have made Symbiostock, many of whom have humble portfolios. And they are seeing sales finally...so why break our wonderful progress by stupid human social assumptions? 

So again, I retract. Forgive my foolishness, and if needed we can even lock this thread. Symbiostock has new signups every day. Most of them don't even get seen on the main site for a few weeks. Steady and consistent growth eventually makes for a nice tall solid tree, right?

I think the people talking about marketing methods on the .org address are the ones that have it right. If anyone else joins, it will be due to natural growth and progress.

Excellent points above, Leo.  I do agree that having divas in any collective effort would cause more problems that they would solve. 

However, I would take issue that anyone who is successful in microstock has "had it easy".  This is a tough business to climb to the top of and everyone who has done it has started at the bottom and worked their ass off way up. 

It's purely a business decision weighing time invested vs. return.  People are bound to come up with different answers to that question. 

[Leo Blanchette]

Yeah I guess your right. There's nothing easy in this business, and everyone's had to work, and it definitely is as you say - just a return on investment of time or money question.

[LesPalenik]

Steady and consistent growth eventually makes for a nice tall solid tree, right?

Yes, it is important to see the steady and consistent growth. The engine is much smoother and more powerful now than just a few months ago.
Considering the challenges, starting from zero, with a totally new concept, IMO, the Symbiostock growth has been phenomenal.
Volume of online images is growing exponentially, and we are now adding almost 40,000 images per month. That's with 100 contributors.
In six months, the network can easily grow to 250 contributors and 100,000 new images every month.

The big challenge is to let the buyers know about the new world order.

 
 

[Ron]

Steady and consistent growth eventually makes for a nice tall solid tree, right?

Yes, it is important to see the steady and consistent growth. The engine is much smoother and more powerful now than just a few months ago.
Considering the challenges, starting from zero, with a totally new concept, IMO, the Symbiostock growth has been phenomenal.
Volume of online images is growing exponentially, and we are now adding almost 40,000 images per month. That's with 100 contributors.
In six months, the network can easily grow to 250 contributors and 100,000 new images every month.

The big challenge is to let the buyers know about the new world order. 

LOVE IT !!! 

[cidepix]

Leo, you are right to retract..

this thread wasn't actually needed to get the attention of so called "big" players.. what's being offered here should be enough to lure them.. if it's not, then there is nothing we can do..

the network is slowly growing.. in a year time they will come in flocks.. and that's my prophecy 

[JoRodrigues]

I signed up to Microstock Group a few months ago through research on Google. This my first post I think. I'd like to point out a few things as what can probably be seen as an outsider looking in since I have mostly read, read, and read some more.

Overall, I like the idea of Symbiostock. I don't like to get screwed by the big (and small) Micro's. I've been taking photos from probably an age 9 or 10 and I'm 44 now. Recently I decided to actually try to earn some revenue from photography and creative related fields with vectors and such. I also like to spread my bases.

Now, let me get to it. I'm a creative person. I'm all about writing and creating. I'm not a salesman. I also loath to read through endless red tape/terms and conditions (and I spent days if not weeks doing just that before starting in Micro Stock). My questions are not about the layouts and the design. I've got enough experience to graphically modify an existing theme. That is nothing new to me.

I've been to Symbiostock and done some reading up while there. Correctly or INcorrectly my first impression is that I must invest. Fine, one cannot just take one must give too. So even though my financial status is very shaky, and we have the unfortunate downside of a weakened currency that is around ZAR10 for every $1, I would invest if I could see the potential for sales that would at least pay my monthly outlay. By potential I mean a way to sell photos since as I have stated before, I am not a salesman. I can have an html gallery of photos on a website within days. That is easy!

What I am looking for are clients. So it makes no sense to spend money on something that I don't see providing me with any real clients. Please note I am not being judgemental. I think I express what others feel towards Symbiostock.

So I pay up the fees, I spend time uploading photos, set up the site... then what? I've now spent money on a static corner of the web. My ego is fairly healthy. I don't need an online gallery for people to oooh and ahh. How do I find the clients or how do they find me? The type that are not cheap and buy my next to nothing $ pictures on iStock and everywhere else? It could be I am missing the obvious and maybe we all are but nevertheless, we are either missing the obvious, or we are right in our thinking.

How do we make money to at least pay for our outlay? I know about search engines and optimisation and all the jargon. The question still remains, how does being with Symbiostock help me to sell some images? If you can provide some realistic examples of how this can be achieved a lot of us would get onboard.

The internet is filled with people offering everything from used underwear to false promises. So we are bombarded by the minute by someone trying to sell us something. Why in your words does Symbiostock work and how? Perhaps it isn't working just yet (due to simple numbers of users) and that is ok. How will it work and how does it help us? Why should we sit up and take notice?

We know the sales pitch of setting our prices and not getting paid peanuts. 100% of nothing remains nothing while a very small percentage of something at a MicroStock site gets us some income. Photography has two distinct aspects to it. Art and business. When I sell an image at iStock... it's business. When I work on a composite image or vector (and they don't go to the sales bin) it's art. So I know the art. I want to know how to make money (even modestly) and how Symbiostock helps me.

I know this is long I never apologize for trying to make myself clear.

[Ron]

You can use your site for all sorts of things. Be creative. I am sorry, but I dont understand why we need to convince people why to open their own website.

Its to have the opportunity to sell your images directly and keep 100%. What more is there to it?  If you dont have a shop, you cant sell anything. 

I am sorry, I am not being argumentative, I just dont understand why people need convincing. Symbiostock is the cheapest option out there if you want your own web store. If you dont want your own web store, fine too. 

[cthoman]

So I pay up the fees, I spend time uploading photos, set up the site... then what?

Nothing. Something. I don't think anybody can really answer this definitively. I do well with my personal site, but I don't have any magic secrets. It's a good investment for me, but I'm sure others won't have the same results.

[stockastic]

So I pay up the fees, I spend time uploading photos, set up the site... then what? I've now spent money on a static corner of the web. My ego is fairly healthy. I don't need an online gallery for people to oooh and ahh. How do I find the clients or how do they find me?

This is - as they used to say - the 64 thousand dollar question.  Way back when 64K was some serious money.

It's the same on FAA where you will be advised  that you have to market yourself, without anyone saying exactly how.   If pressed, people will name Facebook and Twitter, and drop the "SEO" buzzword.  After that it gets it little vague...

I think a lot of people are proceeding on faith - that in the future, buyers will start to search for images with Google instead of going through agencies - your images will show up  there because you've done a lot of SEO mumbo-jumbo - they'll be led to your Symbiostock site, and buy direct.    Hey it could happen.  But I think for this to really take off, Google would have to give us some help.  Their image search would need to be more sophisticated, and somehow let buyers filter for images that are actually for sale from legitimate sources.  Otherwise click fatigue will set in pretty quickly.

[JoRodrigues]

It's not so much whether we want our own store or not. I suspect most of us do want a store to sell our images. The point is that a store that sells no images and has no clients is a financial loss. I don't need convincing to have my own site. I've got several sites for different things. I don't write complex code but I've done web design for over a decade.

Symbiostock might be a cheap option. No arguments there. Price is less of an issue than the fact that a person with no clients to generate income has therefore no reason to keep the store open. So the question has been asked why we are not getting onboard. Well, I cannot see how it will help me find clients to purchase from my shop. I would imagine others see it similarly. It's not like we are saying that Symbiostock is a con or a bad store maker. Just that without potential clients driven somehow by being on Symbiostock, it is not much use to someone who hasn't any clients.

The challenge with making the sales is that the big guys sell (and have millions of images on hand) to an established clientele. So just because I set up shop with Symbiostock and hope for the best, it doesn't mean it will make any change in the unfortunate set up we are faced with.

Also bear in mind that I have been wanting to set up something to sell my own images on my own terms for a while now. What I don't see is being able to compete with the established sites, which is what we are talking about.

I am also not opposed to proceeding on faith. I still need to see some reason for that faith though.

[Ron]

Setting up a Ktools site or a Zenfolio site should raise the same questions then?

You are asking why Symbiostock. Its not different as to why Ktools or why Zenfolio.

So you are asking why should you set up a website and where are the buyers? No one can answer that question for you. You need to do the work, promote yourself, network, market yourself. If you dont want to do that, stick with the agencies.

The big difference ad advantage  for Symbiostock is that you are part of a network of sites.

[JoRodrigues]

What exactly is that advantage? I'm not looking to fight with you. I'm looking for the positives. How does being part of a large group generate increased traffic for example. That is a common sales pitch but it is never broken down how it ACTUALLY helps a person.

As I have said, maybe we are missing the bigger picture. Currently I am seeing that without having some way to generate sales there is little point in signing up with Symbiostock or anyone for that matter.

Being indexed on Google and using Blogger helps to get you hits through searches. How does being part of Symbiostock help me as a startup store? If it doesn't help me then that is the reason why people are "Oh Hum" about it.

[chromaco]

Customers DO use google images. I get them from there everyday. Do I make as many sales as SS - no way, but I do make sales. When I do it is worth 33 sales at SS and around 16 at IS (average rpd).
I guess a better question is why wouldn't you try? Initial expenses are around $75 for a year. Based on most peoples pricing that equates to about 4 sales per year or 1 sale every 3 months to break even.

As far as why would our sites compete with the big guys here is my answer. I sold two images last week on my symbio site that are also on 22 other sites and have been for over 3 years. My site is just over a month old. For whatever reason the customer found my symbio site before SS, IS, DT, 123, FT, or BS.
I don't blog and do almost zero social networking.

I understand that my results may not be typical but the symbio platform works and considering the cost to get started to me it was a no-brainer.

[JoRodrigues]

Customers DO use google images. I get them from there everyday. Do I make as many sales as SS - no way, but I do make sales. When I do it is worth 33 sales at SS and around 16 at IS (average rpd).
I guess a better question is why wouldn't you try? Initial expenses are around $75 for a year. Based on most peoples pricing that equates to about 4 sales per year or 1 sale every 3 months to break even.

As far as why would our sites compete with the big guys here is my answer. I sold two images last week on my symbio site that are also on 22 other sites and have been for over 3 years. My site is just over a month old. For whatever reason the customer found my symbio site before SS, IS, DT, 123, FT, or BS.
I don't blog and do almost zero social networking.

I understand that my results may not be typical but the symbio platform works and considering the cost to get started to me it was a no-brainer.

Ah now you see, this makes sense to me. I've been online for over 15 odd years now and this is something to sink my teeth into. I'm a little dyslexic (esp. with numbers and stats) even though I do write but this is simple, understandable real information.

So you are selling the same images as on the Micro sites? Are clients not thinking... well I could just get this at MicroStock.com on subscription for next to nothing?Interesting.

I was thinking differently. I was going to keep the stuff on the Micro sites there and use different material on a site like Symbiostock. Would you advise uploading all the stuff you already have on existing sites?

How is Google finding your images on Symbiostock? Through the meta tags or just through keywords on your Symbiostock site?

Thanks for the help!

[Travelling-light]

A couple of years ago, when we were thinking of leaving IS exclusivity, we decided to try as many different avenues for selling our work as possible, to discover what worked and what didn't. Like you, we had no idea whether or not we would be able to sell direct, but we set up a Photoshelter site and decided we would run it for two years and see what happened.

The first year was poor,  the second year, although not impressive, was better. However, we did discover that there are people out there who are willing to buy direct from us, and pay more than peanuts.

Symbiostock came along in the meantime, and it's much cheaper than Photoshelter, and has actually brought in more sales in its first months than Photoshelter did. We will therefore abandon our Photoshelter site in a couple of months, at the end of its second year, and stick with Symbiostock.

We don't know if your files will sell. If you aren't prepared to risk $75 to find out, you will never know either. Your choice.

[Harvepino]

I've just finished my new SYS website and I'm uploading images  at the moment I'm not a big player, but I love the idea and I believe in its potential and will support SYS at least by writing blogs about my experience.

As many others, first I didn't want to join because of the vast number of bug threads here on forum. I can now report to all that I haven't experienced any bugs, it wasn't hard to set up using the http://www.symbioguides.com and everything works smoothly. Uploading is easy - it takes as much time as uploading to agencies... similar to Fotolia or Depositphotos. Upload to FTP, categorize (if you care), publish. That's it.

The thing about sales... lets say I make some $100/month on iStock. That means iStock earns some $566 selling my work. Shutterstock earns even more selling the same work. Then DT, FT, etc. The point is that selling through agencies is VERY expensive option. I am a small fish, but I could already hire a dedicated sales-person for the money that agencies take away from me. Symbiostock is almost free in this sense, while it can take care of the whole of the selling process. From business point of view, it is an opportunity of lifetime. If we get it working for us, we'll be one happy bunch of people 

[JoRodrigues]

A couple of years ago, when we were thinking of leaving IS exclusivity, we decided to try as many different avenues for selling our work as possible, to discover what worked and what didn't. Like you, we had no idea whether or not we would be able to sell direct, but we set up a Photoshelter site and decided we would run it for two years and see what happened.

The first year was poor,  the second year, although not impressive, was better. However, we did discover that there are people out there who are willing to buy direct from us, and pay more than peanuts.

Symbiostock came along in the meantime, and it's much cheaper than Photoshelter, and has actually brought in more sales in its first months than Photoshelter did. We will therefore abandon our Photoshelter site in a couple of months, at the end of its second year, and stick with Symbiostock.

We don't know if your files will sell. If you aren't prepared to risk $75 to find out, you will never know either. Your choice.

Thanks for your input. These are the types of things people want to hear.

$75 might not be much in Dollars but currently (just checked) you can multiply that by 9.81. 750 South African rands is not petty cash. It is also not just that we are trading in Zimbabwe $ It's that we have an idiotic government. So in realistic terms $75 costs us about $200-300! It's great when the sales come in because of the exchange rate but you win and lose.

So I'm investing several hundred $. I'm actually rather glad I decided to make my first post here today. Indirectly I am actually encouraged. I'm going to have a second look at Symbiostock in the near future.

[chromaco]

@ JoRodrigues
I'm not saying there is no expense and you certainly need to put in some time. You will need to determine if it is worth it.

To answer your questions.
New stuff goes to my two personal sites first. I then upload to my premium sites (sites with rpd over $5.00) next. I will track sales on my sites and on the premium sites and then maybe 6 months later the sub sites will get anything that isn't selling.

I have no idea why people find my sites but they do. I am careful to use different descriptions and I prioritize certain keywords on my own sites.
My pricing is lower or equal to almost all of the big sites for on demand and my customers almost never are looking at enough images to get a sub plan. They are printers and soccer moms and sign shops who want 1 image. Some if  not most of them don't even know about the agencies.

Here's a story for you. I got a call from a customer who wanted one of my images but didn't understand the licensing. I spoke with her for about 5 minutes on the phone and answered her questions. During the course of the conversation she told me she originally found my image on a FREE site. Yes, she could have had the image for free but chose to find my site a couple of images down in the search because she wanted to pay for it (good karma I guess). She also went to the agencies but couldn't get her questions about the license answered. She bought the image from me instead of using the free site or one of the agencies because I was there to answer her questions.

This is just one example of why you should have your own site. I won't even go into custom requests and other non-stock ways to make money off of your site.

[JoRodrigues]

@ JoRodrigues
I'm not saying there is no expense and you certainly need to put in some time. You will need to determine if it is worth it.

To answer your questions.
New stuff goes to my two personal sites first. I then upload to my premium sites (sites with rpd over $5.00) next. I will track sales on my sites and on the premium sites and then maybe 6 months later the sub sites will get anything that isn't selling.

I have no idea why people find my sites but they do. I am careful to use different descriptions and I prioritize certain keywords on my own sites.
My pricing is lower or equal to almost all of the big sites for on demand and my customers almost never are looking at enough images to get a sub plan. They are printers and soccer moms and sign shops who want 1 image. Some if  not most of them don't even know about the agencies.

Here's a story for you. I got a call from a customer who wanted one of my images but didn't understand the licensing. I spoke with her for about 5 minutes on the phone and answered her questions. During the course of the conversation she told me she originally found my image on a FREE site. Yes, she could have had the image for free but chose to find my site a couple of images down in the search because she wanted to pay for it (good karma I guess). She also went to the agencies but couldn't get her questions about the license answered. She bought the image from me instead of using the free site or one of the agencies because I was there to answer her questions.

This is just one example of why you should have your own site. I won't even go into custom requests and other non-stock ways to make money off of your site.

Thanks for taking the time out to reply. Now we are getting into the reasons to set up a site. Not necessarily on Symbiostock but you understand what I mean. It is because of these answers that I see things a little differently. It is always a good day when your eyes are opened. I've worked for myself most of my life on and off but I've never tried to sell images hehe

[cthoman]

...costs us about $200-300!

That's closer to what I pay for hosting, and I've been profitable every month since November 2010.

[JPSDK]

Last time I posted in a symbiostock thread with the same initial question and asked some critical questions I got a bunch of angry villagers with pitchforks coming after me.

But I havent changed my mind:
Symbiostock is not very customer friendly, by means of licensing and prices.
There are huge security risks.
The chain is not stronger than the weakest link, meaning quality control.

..as someone said back then... the Symbiostock apple is not the pear you want it to be.
Thats right, it is not, there is too much anarchy as it is now.

[cthoman]

Here's a story for you. I got a call from a customer who wanted one of my images but didn't understand the licensing. I spoke with her for about 5 minutes on the phone and answered her questions. During the course of the conversation she told me she originally found my image on a FREE site. Yes, she could have had the image for free but chose to find my site a couple of images down in the search because she wanted to pay for it (good karma I guess). She also went to the agencies but couldn't get her questions about the license answered. She bought the image from me instead of using the free site or one of the agencies because I was there to answer her questions.

This is just one example of why you should have your own site. I won't even go into custom requests and other non-stock ways to make money off of your site.

People definitely do find these smaller sites. My first customer sent me an email telling me my site was still in Sandbox mode, but he wanted to buy some images. I flipped the switch, then the sales started.

[Shelma1]

Those of you who've found success on Symbiostock, if you could contribute to the "questions for Symbiostock marketing description" thread under Marketing/SEO on symbiostock.org, it would go a long way towards helping me craft copy. 

Then I'll be able to write a comprehensive message that will (hopefully) answer a hella questions.

Thanks in advance!

[Harvepino]

What exactly is that advantage? I'm not looking to fight with you. I'm looking for the positives. How does being part of a large group generate increased traffic for example. That is a common sales pitch but it is never broken down how it ACTUALLY helps a person.

As I have said, maybe we are missing the bigger picture. Currently I am seeing that without having some way to generate sales there is little point in signing up with Symbiostock or anyone for that matter.

Being indexed on Google and using Blogger helps to get you hits through searches. How does being part of Symbiostock help me as a startup store? If it doesn't help me then that is the reason why people are "Oh Hum" about it.

I'll try to answer this question by example. Lets say SYS network has 1,000,000 images at 1,000 sites... not unrealistic numbers if it keeps growing, I think. Some of the 1,000 SYS sites should certainly have fairly good Google rankings. And than you decide to join SYS and upload your pictures. You are newcomer, so your Google ranking is poor. Customers wouldn't find you, you wouldn't sell anything if not part of the network. But you are on the SYS network and lets say you have many good photos of puppy dogs. A customer is searching for a puppy dog on one of the better established websites on the network. Because you are on the network, in spite of your poor Google ranking, your puppy images will pop up right in front of the eyes of potential customer and you can get a sale. Is this a convincing positive of Symbiostock as a startup store? 

Moreover, there is an advantage of joining early. By the time SYS start attracting lots of buyers, you'll have good Google rankings, established links, etc... and so more chances to sell.

[JoRodrigues]

Last time I posted in a symbiostock thread with the same initial question and asked some critical questions I got a bunch of angry villagers with pitchforks coming after me.

But I havent changed my mind:
Symbiostock is not very customer friendly, by means of licensing and prices.
There are huge security risks.
The chain is not stronger than the weakest link, meaning quality control.

..as someone said back then... the Symbiostock apple is not the pear you want it to be.
Thats right, it is not, there is too much anarchy as it is now.

What are the "huge security risks" then? What do you mean by "quality control"?

Thanks.