Help for fixing image price to sell exclusive right!

[Morphart]

I have been contacted in order to sell one of my image to be used as Key Visual on a logo for a mineral water brand. The product will be exclusively sold in southern Germany.

The agency who wants to license my image wants know the price for the Exclusive rights of the image in the category *Non-alcoolic beverage* in the limited region of Southern Germany.

The image in question is : http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-75845188/stock-vector-roman-centurion-brush-helmet-or-galea-vintage-illustration-old-engraved-illustration-of-a-soldier.html?src=DJXVsZwYDQrjxGOHsq2ECg-1-0

They are aware the image was previously sold microstock and that it originates from a late 1800s book (PD).

Is there anyone qualified to give an accurate price for such a transaction? I do not mind paying a % commission for some professional help to close this transaction as I am not used to individually sell license myself .

Thanks for the help!

[JPSDK]

what if someone else finds the same book and takes a picture?

just a question.

[Morphart]

Legally it would have to be debated in court in the case someone would want to claim exclusive right. It's a pretty complex domain in regards to PD images, and it would have to be judged in court to see if the changes made in comparison to the original image is enough to claim copyright to it.

It all comes down to what changes or how they will integrate the image in the logo. Will try to find out a price for it

[sweetgirll]

I guess nobody can claim exclusivity on a public domain image itself....However if you take that image and you re-draw in a different style then nobody would copy your own artistic interpretation.
They would have to pull the image from the Public domain to use as-is or do their own interpretation.

As for price I don't know, but you could research some agencies that sell Rights Managed licenses like Alamy and see how they price these usages.

[Uncle Pete]

As usual grey area. The answer is that you may copyright a derivative image, but no one can renew after something has gone PD. However if incorporated into a work, that product, as a whole, can be protected.

Cleaning and improving and making modifications, such as restoration, makes it a new work. (my opinion, which may or may not be supported by law, because it's vague)

Read Here:  http://asmp.org/tutorials/derivative-works-and-compilations.html

They could get exclusive rights to YOUR version.

Legally it would have to be debated in court in the case someone would want to claim exclusive right. It's a pretty complex domain in regards to PD images, and it would have to be judged in court to see if the changes made in comparison to the original image is enough to claim copyright to it.

It all comes down to what changes or how they will integrate the image in the logo. Will try to find out a price for it

[nicku]

I have been contacted in order to sell one of my image to be used as Key Visual on a logo for a mineral water brand. The product will be exclusively sold in southern Germany.

The agency who wants to license my image wants know the price for the Exclusive rights of the image in the category *Non-alcoolic beverage* in the limited region of Southern Germany.

The image in question is : http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-75845188/stock-vector-roman-centurion-brush-helmet-or-galea-vintage-illustration-old-engraved-illustration-of-a-soldier.html?src=DJXVsZwYDQrjxGOHsq2ECg-1-0

They are aware the image was previously sold microstock and that it originates from a late 1800s book (PD).

Is there anyone qualified to give an accurate price for such a transaction? I do not mind paying a % commission for some professional help to close this transaction as I am not used to individually sell license myself .

Thanks for the help!

I sell also Public Domain images.... My advice: Don't sell the rights of the image....

Reason:

Despite the fact you have the right to sell the image commercially , the image is in PD and everyone who get the hands on that particular book  can photograph the image and sell it.

In case of PD images you have the right to sell high resolutions copies of the image ( even for commercial use) but you don't have the right to sell all the copyrights as the image would be produced by you.

[nicku]

what if someone else finds the same book and takes a picture?

just a question.

+1

[Morphart]

I have been contacted in order to sell one of my image to be used as Key Visual on a logo for a mineral water brand. The product will be exclusively sold in southern Germany.

The agency who wants to license my image wants know the price for the Exclusive rights of the image in the category *Non-alcoolic beverage* in the limited region of Southern Germany.

The image in question is : http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-75845188/stock-vector-roman-centurion-brush-helmet-or-galea-vintage-illustration-old-engraved-illustration-of-a-soldier.html?src=DJXVsZwYDQrjxGOHsq2ECg-1-0

They are aware the image was previously sold microstock and that it originates from a late 1800s book (PD).

Is there anyone qualified to give an accurate price for such a transaction? I do not mind paying a % commission for some professional help to close this transaction as I am not used to individually sell license myself .

Thanks for the help!

I sell also Public Domain images.... My advice: Don't sell the rights of the image....

Reason:

Despite the fact you have the right to sell the image commercially , the image is in PD and everyone who get the hands on that particular book  can photograph the image and sell it.

In case of PD images you have the right to sell high resolutions copies of the image ( even for commercial use) but you don't have the right to sell all the copyrights as the image would be produced by you.

I agree and know all this, thanks for your concern, however this is not the topic I wanted to discuss in this thread .

I told the buyer that the image came from a Public Domain book and that it was already licensed to other people who bought RF licenses. They are aware of this and are still willing to pay to have me remove the image from Microstock, give them the source of the image and such. The buyer is well aware of the source of the images and regarding all this he still wishes to buy the image. Who am I to refuse it to them?

So the same questions is: Anyone knows how to price an image for this?

[EmberMike]

The last vector I sold exclusive rights to, I got $3,000 for it. Just as a point of reference.

I'm not sure a PD image should be priced any more or less. I'm inclined to say less because of the possibility that anyone could just go and put the same image back up into microstock at any time. That and the fact that (no offense) you really didn't have to do much work to make the image mean that you don't have hours of work into it. So really you're just getting paid to take it out of circulation.

So with that in mind, I guess I'd think about how much the image currently makes and how much you expect it to make over the next few years. Take that number, add some amount for your trouble, and go with that. 

[JPSDK]

Price..?
 its easy enough. Take 300 dollars.
and take a quick bargain.
And why?
Exclusivity is not really real.
You wont ever earn much on that image.
300 is a price they can easily swallow and time is not in your favour.

[Muskoka Imagery]

If you are looking for a dollar figure, then I would ask for the full $3k EmberMike mentioned.  From the customer's perspective, it's not about what the image could earn on MS, or that its status as public domain, otherwise they'd have purchased the appropriate license for their purposes through conventional means or hire someone on the cheap to find the source material you got it from.   What this is really about is getting you to stop actively selling your copy elsewhere, and how much they are willing to pay for that service.  It would cost them a lot of money to build their brand around this image only to have some other company buy an EL from one of your agencies and use it as well thereby creating brand confusion.  Market price is whatever the customer is willing to pay to get  you to agree to the terms they've set out, you just need to figure out what that is.    I'd start the negotiations as high as you are comfortable going, and see where that leads.   

Don't undervalue the opportunity you have here.  It's not about the value of the image to you that matters, but the value of it to them. 

[Morphart]

EmberMike, thank you very much for sharing your input. In my eyes PD domain would have less value to me than the other original vector created, but I find it good to see a point of reference. I don't want to lose the sale, but I do not want to sell too cheap too . Thanks again I appreciate a lot.

JPSDK thanks for your input, that was the number I had initially in mind, but I think like Muskoka tells, we always drop the prices down too much. Thanks again for sharing your input this will help me put the price for my image today.

Muskoka Imagery, I do like your perspective that if they would have wanted the image this way, they would have contacted and dealt with the agency directly, which they must have done and try to have a bargain. You input was GREATLY VALUABLE to me, I appreciate you stopping by to share it with me. I will set my price today with that in mind. If it's too high they will surely negotiate. Thanks again!

[Muskoka Imagery]

You're welcome.  Let us know how it goes!

[Morphart]

Since it was my first experience in selling right to a foreign agency I put my price to 900$ CDN, and it was accepted without any negotiation, so I guess I could have sold higher, but I am satisfied with this price.

Thanks again for your insights, as my first thoughts would have been 300$ . Now next time I will go higher depending on the requirements Hope this threads helps someone else in the future for fixing prices.

I guess we have to keep in mind what Muskoka Imagery told me :

Market price is whatever the customer is willing to pay to get  you to agree to the terms they've set out, you just need to figure out what that is.    I'd start the negotiations as high as you are comfortable going, and see where that leads.   

Don't undervalue the opportunity you have here.  It's not about the value of the image to you that matters, but the value of it to them.