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Author Topic: Anyone understand iStock's changes in Most Popular search option?  (Read 13546 times)

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« on: July 28, 2014, 13:43 »
+5
The Most Popular search option used to show images in order of popularity based on the number of times each image had been downloaded during its life on the site. The first image shown was the one with the most downloads; the 2nd image was the image with the second highest number of downloads, 3rd had the third highest number of downloads and so on. This was true as late as the end of June 2014.

Now, based on examining the portfolios of contributors with many images licensed more than 1,000 times, I discovered that there is no longer any sequencing based on the overall popularity. For some of the best selling photographers the first image shown will have no more than a few hundred downloads and the second or third images shown may have fewer than 100 downloads. The most downloaded may be 4th or 5th, or buried much deeper.

Since many searches result in more returns than any customer has time to review, many customers have come to rely on the Most Popular search option. Their understanding has been that in a few pages they will see the images with a particular keyword that other customers have found most useful. That may no longer be true.

The new approach certainly has the advantage of surfacing a lot of images that customers may not have seen before, but it doesnt help customers find the images that have been most popular historically. Now, with any particular keyword some of a images that have been downloaded the most times may not be shown until the 400th or 500th return.

The key question is how the search algorithm decides which image to show first. I searched for woman computer office. The sixth most popular images only has 300 total downloads, the 9th has 10,000 and the 10th has 100. Interestingly, on this particular search seven of the top 20 images were created by monkeybusinessimages. What is the logic behind how these images are chosen?

Is Most Popular based on the number of downloads of a particular image in the last 30 or 60 days, or is there no basis on popularity whatsoever? If iStock felt a need to add a new search option why did they have to eliminate the Most Downloads option that many customers have come to rely on? There is no indication that iStock has explained, or intends to explain to customers or contributors -- the logic for this change. Is there a good reason for keeping everyone in the dark?

Does this new search option benefit customers? Most Popular could mean that in the last 60 days an image has been downloaded 10 times and that is more than most other images using the same search term were downloaded during that period.  There is no indication as to what that number might be, but the customer will be able to discover that the images has been downloaded 300 or 3,000 times over its lifespan.

The new system may benefit photographers who are pumping lots of new images onto the site, particularly if those new images have been shown for a while near the top of the Best Match search return order. Photographers with a few best selling images, who may have cut back on the number of new images they are contributing could see a major decline in sales as it becomes harder and harder for customers to find their images. There are lots of unanswered questions.

Check out your portfolio and some of the search terms customers are likely to use to find your images.


« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2014, 13:51 »
0
Maybe they use the views too. Views through google image search and so on. I know other sites.. who use this, called "favorite images" and other names. I think its not a bad idea.

« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 13:54 »
+1
"Since many searches result in more returns than any customer has time to review, many customers have come to rely on the Most Popular search option. Their understanding has been that in a few pages they will see the images with a particular keyword that other customers have found most useful. That may no longer be true."

What "most downloaded" used to return was the images with a particular keyword sorted by downloads.  That isn't the same as images that other customers have found useful for a particular keyword sorted by downloads from that keyword.

Shelma1

  • stockcoalition.org
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2014, 13:56 »
+1
My guess is that they're trying to compete with Shutterstock. Sorting most popular only by most downloads is a double-edged sword. It helps people who joined iStock early to selll more images. But If you're a designer or art director and all you see on the first page is the same images you've seen there for ten years, you may look elsewhere because the selection seems stale to you, and you don't want to slog through ten pages to get to fresher "popular" content.

« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2014, 14:20 »
+3
I don't know how the algorithm works, but when I see "Most Popular" on any agency I assume it's the number of downloads divided by the number of days the image was online. So a new file with a few downloads in a rapid succession have a chance to go to the top, and if after a while sales start to slow down the file will go under. That's of course not considering the keyword used in the search, which in reality makes it a bit more complex than that. Sort by number of downloads only is not clever and only good for old files that are likely not the best ones anymore.

cuppacoffee

« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2014, 14:26 »
0
DT has something similar. You can sort your search results by Most Downloaded or Best Selling, fuzzy terms. I think each agency applies different criteria based only on what they want to push to the front. And, it changes all the time. I suspect they all want to shake things up to put new images in front of the buyers to make it look like they are relevant and keeping up to date with how images and buyers are changing.

« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2014, 15:34 »
0
Every agency does its own secret sauce to come up with best match or most popular or whatever they call it. IS is famous for huge swings of their best match - causing wide fluctuations in sales for contributors. SS was much more stable, but they started tweaking things a few years ago too.

« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2014, 15:42 »
+2
"Since many searches result in more returns than any customer has time to review, many customers have come to rely on the Most Popular search option. Their understanding has been that in a few pages they will see the images with a particular keyword that other customers have found most useful. That may no longer be true."

What "most downloaded" used to return was the images with a particular keyword sorted by downloads.  That isn't the same as images that other customers have found useful for a particular keyword sorted by downloads from that keyword.

exactly.  If I search for apple, I'll get the images that other people purchased when searching for apple.  Even if said apple image only has 100 downloads and the next image has 1000 downloads.  The second image could have gotten 950 downloads from a search term involving woman apple and only 50 downloads from just apple.  While the first image could have all 100 downloads on the search term apple.

« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2014, 15:53 »
0
"Since many searches result in more returns than any customer has time to review, many customers have come to rely on the Most Popular search option. Their understanding has been that in a few pages they will see the images with a particular keyword that other customers have found most useful. That may no longer be true."

What "most downloaded" used to return was the images with a particular keyword sorted by downloads.  That isn't the same as images that other customers have found useful for a particular keyword sorted by downloads from that keyword.

exactly.  If I search for apple, I'll get the images that other people purchased when searching for apple.  Even if said apple image only has 100 downloads and the next image has 1000 downloads.  The second image could have gotten 950 downloads from a search term involving woman apple and only 50 downloads from just apple.  While the first image could have all 100 downloads on the search term apple.

hmm, even i didn't know that, LOL.
so really, i should be paying more attention to the keywords that are POPULAR since that is the most useful to clients. and then juxtapose with my earnings to see how i should re-keyword the non-sellers, or when i upload again the new images.  ie. think like the buyer even especially when entering keywords.  i suppose the POPULAR and DOWNLOAD for Shutterstock is similar, right?

anyway JSL +1 Leaf +1 awarded by me

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2014, 16:03 »
0
LIke Best Match, it's not the same over different searches. I've seen some where Popular was very like 'new' and others where it's very similar to 'best match'. There was a big best match shakeup just over a week ago, again favouring indies in most, but not all searches.
There haven't been uniform search results between searches for months now, and where Fresh Match fits in is anyone's guess.

« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2014, 16:16 »
+3
However the agencies want to justify it, this new practice is misleading, and outright deceiving. It doesn't help me as a buyer, and certainly it doesn't help me as the contributor. Often it's not even proportional (number of days/number of downloads). It even seems that some agencies in their misguided effort trying to present a fresh look of the stats, punish older images with high number of downloads  and push them intentionally down several pages.

"Most downloaded" would be a very useful option for the buyers, reflecting the real situation. Leave the decision to the buyers whether they want (or not) the most downloaded image or the most popular image in the last month. As it is implemented now, the display sequence is based on fabricated figures. If you can't trust "the most popular" information, what else can you expect?

Go back to the "classic" model.

Shelma1

  • stockcoalition.org
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2014, 16:27 »
-1
However the agencies want to justify it, this new practice is misleading, and outright deceiving. It doesn't help me as a buyer, and certainly it doesn't help me as the contributor. Often it's not even proportional (number of days/number of downloads). It even seems that some agencies in their misguided effort trying to present a fresh look of the stats, punish older images with high number of downloads  and push them intentionally down several pages.

"Most downloaded" would be a very useful option for the buyers, reflecting the real situation. Leave the decision to the buyers whether they want (or not) the most downloaded image or the most popular image in the last month. As it is implemented now, the display sequence is based on fabricated figures. If you can't trust "the most popular" information, what else can you expect?

Go back to the "classic" model.

One of my new images is now number one most popular in its category on iS. The next most popular has 3x as many dls, but mine happened over a few months and the other over four years. Which is more popular?

I had the opposite happen to me at SS (same image). Mine was bumped out of the number one spot by a newcomer. You win some,you lose some. But you can't have buyers looking at the same images for ten years or you'll start losing sales altogether.

« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2014, 16:42 »
+2
... But you can't have buyers looking at the same images for ten years or you'll start losing sales altogether.

That's true, but you can easily have a few alternatives to Best Match - which should, IMO, be heavily keyword weighted.

You can have Most Downloaded and Popular - where the former is absolute downloads and the latter some downloads per month/week/quarter. You could name popular Hot, or Trending or some such.

MyFonts has Hot New Fonts and Best Sellers - I think both are useful and other than arguing about which should be the default, I don't see any reason the buyer shouldn't have a range of sort options (including, at agencies with multiple pricing, price).

Shelma1

  • stockcoalition.org
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2014, 16:52 »
0
Agreed.

« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2014, 16:57 »
0
lol, it seems it is very bad for me too. i did not sell anything for the last 2 days.
Hope for thinkstock works better for me.

KB

« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2014, 18:39 »
+1
But If you're a designer or art director and all you see on the first page is the same images you've seen there for ten years, you may look elsewhere because the selection seems stale to you, and you don't want to slog through ten pages to get to fresher "popular" content.
Wasn't that supposed to be taken care of by the "Fresh Match" search? Not that it's worked out that way ....

« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2014, 18:47 »
+1
However the agencies want to justify it, this new practice is misleading, and outright deceiving. It doesn't help me as a buyer, and certainly it doesn't help me as the contributor. Often it's not even proportional (number of days/number of downloads). It even seems that some agencies in their misguided effort trying to present a fresh look of the stats, punish older images with high number of downloads  and push them intentionally down several pages.

"Most downloaded" would be a very useful option for the buyers, reflecting the real situation. Leave the decision to the buyers whether they want (or not) the most downloaded image or the most popular image in the last month. As it is implemented now, the display sequence is based on fabricated figures. If you can't trust "the most popular" information, what else can you expect?

Go back to the "classic" model.

One of my new images is now number one most popular in its category on iS. The next most popular has 3x as many dls, but mine happened over a few months and the other over four years. Which is more popular?

I had the opposite happen to me at SS (same image). Mine was bumped out of the number one spot by a newcomer. You win some,you lose some. But you can't have buyers looking at the same images for ten years or you'll start losing sales altogether.

I never said that they should not promote new images. But they should call it appropriately and not use misleading terms. It smells too much of certain regimes that elevated their propaganda above the truth. Most buyers would prefer to have the facts presented in real honest numbers and make the choices themselves.

« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 03:24 by LesPalenik »


« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2014, 02:03 »
0
Is Most Popular based on the number of downloads of a particular image in the last 30 or 60 days, or is there no basis on popularity whatsoever? If iStock felt a need to add a new search option why did they have to eliminate the Most Downloads option that many customers have come to rely on? There is no indication that iStock has explained, or intends to explain to customers or contributors -- the logic for this change. Is there a good reason for keeping everyone in the dark?
...
Check out your portfolio and some of the search terms customers are likely to use to find your images.

Well, I checked out my own portfolio since searching for a certain term won't help me because I will never know how many times each images was downloaded for that particular keyword.

However, having a look at "Most popular" it is pretty apparent that there is something like "number of downloads in the most recent timeframe".

The new system may benefit photographers who are pumping lots of new images onto the site, particularly if those new images have been shown for a while near the top of the Best Match search return order. Photographers with a few best selling images, who may have cut back on the number of new images they are contributing could see a major decline in sales as it becomes harder and harder for customers to find their images. There are lots of unanswered questions.

I don't think it necessarily benefits people with high upload volumes. I think it benefits people with a high hit-miss ratio in their uploads through the last couple of year(s). Masses of images with 0 downloads won't make any of them appear in the "Most Popular" section. Two searches for keywords returned pages of images, none of them having 0 downloads. So you have to upload images that will be found and downloads through other search methods successfully to help your images advance in the "Most Popular".

« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2014, 02:08 »
0
Jim, I wanted to share some more information privately but apparently you are blocking personal messages. If you're interested, contact me.

« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2014, 03:02 »
0
I'm done with iS. Doesn't matter about Most Popular. Doesn't matter if your keywords are Mickey Mouse. They control the system for iS above all else. It's the end for me. I'm moving on.

« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2014, 23:53 »
0
They should have just added a "Feeling Lucky" Button like Google!

I have noticed that their searches bring up irrelevant results which is going to send some consumers away, It's also going to hurt their exclusive contributors.


cuppacoffee

« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2014, 06:07 »
+2
...their searches bring up irrelevant results

Irrelevant results are mostly due to irrelevant keywords. It's way too late to clean up bad keywords on all sites. Too many images, not enough policing of wong words/phrases from the get go.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 10:54 by cuppacoffee »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2014, 06:18 »
+2
...their searches bring up irrelevant results

Irrelevant results are mostly due to irrelevant keywords. It's way to late to clean up bad keywords on all sites. Too many images, not enough policing of wong words/phrases from the get go.

Why iS dropped keyword inspection and messed up their best match system which should have worked really well is a mystery, although I have some theories. A photo of an apple under their new image inspection might be bad enough, but a bad photo of an orange keyworded 'apple' (pear, plum, cherry, kumquat...) is a double whammy.

Batman

« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2014, 09:36 »
0
But If you're a designer or art director and all you see on the first page is the same images you've seen there for ten years, you may look elsewhere because the selection seems stale to you, and you don't want to slog through ten pages to get to fresher "popular" content.
Wasn't that supposed to be taken care of by the "Fresh Match" search? Not that it's worked out that way ....

I never understood Fresh Match, what it's supposed to mean. But then somebody tell me exactaly what does Most Popular mean? Sales, views, money, who buys, keywords. Does anybody know what Most Popular is supposed to be, beore it is broken.

KB

« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2014, 11:54 »
0
But then somebody tell me exactaly what does Most Popular mean? Sales, views, money, who buys, keywords. Does anybody know what Most Popular is supposed to be, beore it is broken.
Supposed to be? I don't know.

Used to be? The first few sentences of the OP state that very clearly -- it was "By Downloads" renamed:

The Most Popular search option used to show images in order of popularity based on the number of times each image had been downloaded during its life on the site. The first image shown was the one with the most downloads; the 2nd image was the image with the second highest number of downloads, 3rd had the third highest number of downloads and so on.


 

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