Poll: RPI at Shutterstock (You can now edit your reply if you entered RPD)

[PixelBytes]

RPD is not so meaningful for this topic, but if you compare one site to another it a good thing to know.  That was the whole reason people got upset by DPC. Nobody knew what RPI would be, but people were upset by low RPD.

[stockmarketer]

How much should my RPI be to make $1000 a month on SS?

That's a very strange question.  If you have 1 image your RPI needs to be $1,000 and if you have 1,000 images your RPI needs to be $1.

You can't help me from the poll? How many pictures do I need to make $1000 a month?

??

The poll will not help you in personal forecasting.  That's not the point of the poll.  The poll is to give you an indication of how your SS RPI stacks up against the rest of us here. 

To find out how many pictures you need to earn $1,000 a month, see tickstock's answer.  Calculating revenue involves three numbers:  RPI x Number of images = INCOME.   Plug in $1000 for income, divide by your current RPI (you would be wise to lower it a bit if you're forecasting long-term), and you get your answer.   

[Uncle Pete]

Exactly, if you are going to compare a site to anything, RPD tells us, what they pay. It has nothing to do with number of DLs, it's just what's the average payment for a DL. I'd like to know that.

When you get hired for a job, you would like to know, how much per hour or what salary, you will make, not what other people make at the same place, doing different work.  That's RPI.

On the other hand, knowing that some anonymous person claims to make and RPI of (hypothetical number here) .50 on SS tells me little or nothing.

I'd like to know what the RPI is on FT, IS and DT for that same person, for their same images. That would be telling.

Someone else pointed out, "how has your RPI changed" That's interesting as well. But what's Sept. RPI is hardly of any value, without before and after or comparison to other agencies.

To say I make an RPI of .20 on SS in Sept. 2014, means nothing to you or anyone else. It's an individual number. You might ask, what was my RPI increase or decrease since Aug. 2014. Or how does it compare to Sept. 2013.

But as a number, for one person, standing alone, it's pretty much useless to anyone else!

RPD is not so meaningful for this topic, but if you compare one site to another it a good thing to know.  That was the whole reason people got upset by DPC. Nobody knew what RPI would be, but people were upset by low RPD.

[YadaYadaYada]

How much should my RPI be to make $1000 a month on SS?

That's a very strange question.  If you have 1 image your RPI needs to be $1,000 and if you have 1,000 images your RPI needs to be $1.

You can't help me from the poll? How many pictures do I need to make $1000 a month?

??

The poll will not help you in personal forecasting.  That's not the point of the poll.  The poll is to give you an indication of how your SS RPI stacks up against the rest of us here. 

To find out how many pictures you need to earn $1,000 a month, see tickstock's answer.  Calculating revenue involves three numbers:  RPI x Number of images = INCOME.   Plug in $1000 for income, divide by your current RPI (you would be wise to lower it a bit if you're forecasting long-term), and you get your answer.

Lower because ROI is going down on microstock? The poll is to see how I stack up on SS for 1 month nothing else? What next do we compare shoe size?

[tickstock]

Exactly, if you are going to compare a site to anything, RPD tells us, what they pay. It has nothing to do with number of DLs, it's just what's the average payment for a DL. I'd like to know that.

When you get hired for a job, you would like to know, how much per hour or what salary, you will make, not what other people make at the same place, doing different work.  That's RPI.

On the other hand, knowing that some anonymous person claims to make and RPI of (hypothetical number here) .50 on SS tells me little or nothing.

I'd like to know what the RPI is on FT, IS and DT for that same person, for their same images. That would be telling.

Someone else pointed out, "how has your RPI changed" That's interesting as well. But what's Sept. RPI is hardly of any value, without before and after or comparison to other agencies.

To say I make an RPI of .20 on SS in Sept. 2014, means nothing to you or anyone else. It's an individual number. You might ask, what was my RPI increase or decrease since Aug. 2014. Or how does it compare to Sept. 2013.

But as a number, for one person, standing alone, it's pretty much useless to anyone else!

RPD is not so meaningful for this topic, but if you compare one site to another it a good thing to know.  That was the whole reason people got upset by DPC. Nobody knew what RPI would be, but people were upset by low RPD.

Well you need to find the RPI for this month to make a comparison to next month.  I'll start another poll next month (with better instructions and allow people to change their votes if they mess up) so that you can start finding out what the average or expected RPI is and how it's trending.

[cuppacoffee]

Why can't people view the results without voting? The results might be helpful to non-contributors to SS, especially if considering dropping exclusivity at another site. Perhaps that is why (some) people vote with the wrong answer, just to view the results. Is that just the way the polling part of the forum works?

[tickstock]

Why can't people view the results without voting? The results might be helpful to non-contributors to SS, especially if considering dropping exclusivity at another site. Perhaps that is why (some) people vote with the wrong answer, just to view the results. Is that just the way the polling part of the forum works?

You can't.  I set it up to be viewed without voting but it doesn't work.  Maybe I'll add a space to vote 'just want to see results' in the next poll but that throws off the numbers.

[Valo]

Simple really, you cant manipulate RPD, you can manipulate RPI.

[tickstock]

Simple really, you cant manipulate RPD, you can manipulate RPI.

I've never seen the point in deleting files that don't sell especially not enough to drastically change my RPI.  Sure I could delete a couple thousand files that rarely sell (but every once in a while they do) to make my RPI look higher but why would I do that?  To change the poll results, to feel better about my RPI, to be able to brag about a high RPI?  I don't think many of us try to manipulate our RPI, but if you have a good reason why we should be manipulating our RPI's please tell me.

[Valo]

Who's talking about actually doing it, I am just making a statement of a fact. That is all.

[tickstock]

Who's talking about actually doing it, I am just making a statement of a fact. That is all.

Well if no one is actually doing it then I guess it's a moot point. 

[Valo]

It is not a moot point, it is a fact, if you know RPD you have an actual number that tells you something. You never know what you get with an RPI as it is manipulatable. 

[tickstock]

It is not a moot point, it is a fact, if you know RPD you have an actual number that tells you something. You never know what you get with an RPI as it is manipulatable. 

Yes it is possible.  Someone could delete all of their images except their number one best seller and throw off this poll.  It is possible that most people are deleting all of their images except their best one right now to throw off the poll.  I'm not too worried about that but if you are feel free to ignore the results.  It seems absurd that anyone would actually do any of those things to manipulate their RPI for an anonymous poll but like you said it is possible.   

[Valo]

Tickstock, I think you misunderstand me, I am not implying any of the things you say, and I will leave it at that.

[Realist]

There's something seriously wrong with the results when nearly 50% of voters are claiming more than 40c per image/month ... which itself is nearly 50% higher than Shutterstock's declared average.

Even Sean said he's only generating about 60c per image/month (in a previous thread) so we must have some absolute stock geniuses voting in the poll.

1. I'd say MSG members tend to be more active or more succesful than the average SS contributor. The SS collection includes many bad, unsaleable files (at least from today's perspective). It's not surprising that members of an independent, professional forum will have better results than the average SS member.

2. RPI is not really about how good you are, especially at SS it's more about your position in the search results. Everything gets downloaded as long as it is seen by buyers. If you came to SS recently life is much harder.

I had to smile, because with my skills I might not qualify to set up tripods or lights in the studios of some of the great photographers who shared their results - and yet my RPI at SS is much higher than theirs:) What does it prove? Nothing. I would gladly swap my higher RPI for the total income that they derive from photography. 

3. RPI is only useful so that you can realize that if your income grows at all, this growth is not linear, i.e. it doesn't correspond to your portfolio growth. The only constant is that the RPI is dropping and the only conclusion that you can withdraw from tracking it, is that this business is unsustainable (for contributors) and you should face the music and find a real job.

[cascoly]

 

How much should my RPI be to make $1000 a month on SS?



The Median of the answers lies in the 0.26 to 0.40 bracket.
Means for an average portfolio you need about 3000 files - roughly.

no - this poll is USELESS for averages.  the high rpi reports might be carefully selected images in high volume sales topics; the low rpi could be portfolios with hundreds of low selling images.  ( a different strategy, but one that will result in lower rpi)

so unless you know the details of all the datapoints you can't predict how many images are needed to make $x per month.  and of course, that's ignoring any definition of what the portfolio of the new artist consists of....

besides, underlying this entire debate is the faulty premise that nothing is changing in the environment -- but what worked last year may not work next year & vice versa, etc,etc

[stockmarketer]

There's something seriously wrong with the results when nearly 50% of voters are claiming more than 40c per image/month ... which itself is nearly 50% higher than Shutterstock's declared average.

Even Sean said he's only generating about 60c per image/month (in a previous thread) so we must have some absolute stock geniuses voting in the poll.

1. I'd say MSG members tend to be more active or more succesful than the average SS contributor. The SS collection includes many bad, unsaleable files (at least from today's perspective). It's not surprising that members of an independent, professional forum will have better results than the average SS member.

2. RPI is not really about how good you are, especially at SS it's more about your position in the search results. Everything gets downloaded as long as it is seen by buyers. If you came to SS recently life is much harder.

I had to smile, because with my skills I might not qualify to set up tripods or lights in the studios of some of the great photographers who shared their results - and yet my RPI at SS is much higher than theirs:) What does it prove? Nothing. I would gladly swap my higher RPI for the total income that they derive from photography. 

3. RPI is only useful so that you can realize that if your income grows at all, this growth is not linear, i.e. it doesn't correspond to your portfolio growth. The only constant is that the RPI is dropping and the only conclusion that you can withdraw from tracking it, is that this business is unsustainable (for contributors) and you should face the music and find a real job.

I agree with you on #1 and even on #3 to a degree.  But you're off on #2.  "Everything gets downloaded as long as it is seen by buyers?"  Yes, to be downloaded it must be seen... but if something is seen, that doesn't mean it will be downloaded.

I'd contend the higher your RPI, the more you know what customers want and are delivering to those needs.  We can gripe that SS' search seems crazy, but face it, they live or die by search... if customers can't easily find what they want, they won't be back.  SS knows this, so their main mission is to serve the most relevant results to a customer's search requests.  By definition, they're serving up the stuff that the customer will most want to buy.  So yes, the search will benefit those best serving the customer's needs. 

A high RPI -- in relation to the masses -- is absolutely a sign that you're doing things right.

[cascoly]

Exactly.  People could delete non sellers and low sellers to make their RPI look better but that comes at the expense of some sales and so almost nobody does that.  To people like UnclePete I hope this poll doesn't cause you to delete your files just so you can anonymously report a better RPI, that seems like a very bad idea.

first, anyone can report an inflated rpi without deleting files, since there's no validation

the point wasn't that anyone intended to delete images, but that BECAUSE the data can be so easily manipulated, RPI is inherently useless [except perhaps as an individual's indicator (eg, if you submit 500 new images & your rpi goes down, it might because your images aren't as salable as your previous portfolio)]

you can't make any predictions based solely on reported rpi 

what matters is $/mo and that can be achieved with many different strategies; some of those will result in high rpi, others won't.   so again, rpi can't be used to answer the question "how many images do I need to make $X"

[cascoly]

A high RPI -- in relation to the masses -- is absolutely a sign that you're doing things right.

probably true, but the logical  implied converse and inverse statements are not necessarily   true

ie, you can't assume these 2 statements:
if you're doing things right then you have a high RPI
if you don't have a high RPI you're not doing things right

a low rpi, eg, may indicate you're supplying a low demand area, possibly with less competition.   

[Realist]

I agree with you on #1 and even on #3 to a degree.  But you're off on #2.  "Everything gets downloaded as long as it is seen by buyers?"  Yes, to be downloaded it must be seen... but if something is seen, that doesn't mean it will be downloaded.

Well, I exaggerated. What I mean is that the position in the search results influences your income. And this position doesn't always depend on your skills as a photographer. There are many factors. Even the time of the image appearing online may influence its earnings.

I'd contend the higher your RPI, the more you know what customers want and are delivering to those needs.  We can gripe that SS' search seems crazy, but face it, they live or die by search... if customers can't easily find what they want, they won't be back.  SS knows this, so their main mission is to serve the most relevant results to a customer's search requests.  By definition, they're serving up the stuff that the customer will most want to buy. 

This is true for ODs and  SODs. With subscribers SS earns more if they download fewer files (as long as they don't cancel their subscriptions of course).

A high RPI -- in relation to the masses -- is absolutely a sign that you're doing things right.

I wouldn't say that. Your total income minus your total expenses is what really counts.
RPI is vanity, profit is sanity. (Although I wish it was the other way around)

[stockmarketer]

you can't make any predictions based solely on reported rpi 

what matters is $/mo and that can be achieved with many different strategies; some of those will result in high rpi, others won't.   so again, rpi can't be used to answer the question "how many images do I need to make $X"

Huh.  That's funny.  For my first several years I did exactly what you say is impossible.  After my first few months, I figured my average RPI and asked myself, "how much do I want to make and by what date?"  I charted it, figured how much I would need to upload each day to reach it... and guess what... in about two years of following this projection, I hit my goal, right when I figured I would. 

Of course, those were the old days when my port was increasing at a nice percentage in relation to agency sizes, so my RPI held rock steady (it went down in summer and holidays, but I was averaging it out).

Now, my RPI is sliding (for reasons stated way above in this thread)... but it's a predictable slide.  Now I project out a set decrease in RPI each month and can estimate how much I may make a year or two from now.  Of course, if some disaster happens... like Getty buying SS, god forbid... all bets are off. 

[gostwyck]

A high RPI -- in relation to the masses -- is absolutely a sign that you're doing things right.

probably true, but the logical  implied converse and inverse statements are not necessarily   true

ie, you can't assume these 2 statements:
if you're doing things right then you have a high RPI
if you don't have a high RPI you're not doing things right

a low rpi, eg, may indicate you're supplying a low demand area, possibly with less competition.

I'd also expect RPI to start reducing once you've been doing microstock for more than 5-6 years. The effect will be similar to the 'hitting the wall' phenomena when growth in revenue stalls.

Over 70% of my portfolio at SS is more than 4 years old. My earliest stuff is nearly 10 years old. What were once regular selling images are now rarely seen because they've been superseded by better images, newer images (SS promotes newness in the sort-order) and 100x more competition.

[Dook]

RPI means nothing in my opinion. Let's take two photographers - one is doing complicated studio shot with a lot of lighting and retouching work, the other is lifestyle or street photographer making dozens of pictures at the same time. They both earn the same amount of money for the same time and work invested. The first one with one picture, the other with ten or fifty. And their RPIs are completely different.

[stockmarketer]

RPI means nothing in my opinion. Let's take two photographers - one is doing complicated studio shot with a lot of lighting and retouching work, the other is lifestyle or street photographer making dozens of pictures at the same time. They both earn the same amount of money for the same time and work invested. The first one with one picture, the other with ten or fifty. And their RPIs are completely different.

But wouldn't you agree that both these individuals could forecast future earnings by knowing their own RPI and quantity of images produced? 

Here I figured I have used my RPI to forecast my own growth and set goals, so it's been a meaningful number for me.  I guess I've been wrong.

[dirkr]

How much should my RPI be to make $1000 a month on SS?



The Median of the answers lies in the 0.26 to 0.40 bracket.
Means for an average portfolio you need about 3000 files - roughly.

no - this poll is USELESS for averages.  the high rpi reports might be carefully selected images in high volume sales topics; the low rpi could be portfolios with hundreds of low selling images.  ( a different strategy, but one that will result in lower rpi)

so unless you know the details of all the datapoints you can't predict how many images are needed to make $x per month.  and of course, that's ignoring any definition of what the portfolio of the new artist consists of....

besides, underlying this entire debate is the faulty premise that nothing is changing in the environment -- but what worked last year may not work next year & vice versa, etc,etc

The poll is useless for averages because it doesn't contain data about the specifics of a portfolio?

It's exactly the other way round: this poll provides usefull data about averages. Only on average data points.
As always with any statistical analysis, you can't derive direct conclusions for a specific situation from a statistical average.
But that's not the point.