GO Greece!

[gcrook]

Since they were elected, what changes greek government have implemented to combat the corruption and the taxes invasion?
They spend their time in European reunions, they don't present serious proposals, how they expect their country to be sustainable? They need to be sustainable to avoid the unhealthy financial system. When they are not in reunions they go to TV and Twitter telling the europeans are terrorist. They closed the banks for a week and they go to TV telling the greeks it is Europe fault. Eurozone is not only Germany and France, it is mainly countries with smaller monthly minimum wage, and surely where you don't pay 2 euros for a coffee... That government is not showing any respect or consideration for the other countries (what kind of democracy is this?) and I think this situation is going to a wrong direction for the greek people, both for the YES or NO perspective.
They only talk of debt restructuring, how many debt restructuring they had already? They don't make changes in their country to limit their expanses, they just need to ask for debt restructuring once a year.

Honestly, if I see only in a personal interest, it's better for me that Greece don't leave the euro because it weaknen the euro.

I waited for a post like yours for days.
I plussed you just for being brutally honest (the only plus i gave in this thread).Dont necessarily agree with you in general (you have made a LOT of points -somne valid some not- regardless of whether you realize it or not), although i agree with some especially the big one where the government -almost CRIMINALLY-failed to impose its own agenda to its country, seeking excuses,but i am relieved that since this thread started you gave the most honest answer as described in the last sentence of your post.

We dont necessarily have to agree here to discuss.
But if there is honesty that can surpass this primal fear of personal loss to the point that someone will come out and openly say "im sorry for them (they messed up though) but im afraid more that it will all tumble down and come to bite me in the @ss" ,meaning that one does not afraid to expose him/herself openly, we then have a connection as people.
If we dont have at least this kind of honesty in a discussion then we have here what i described many pages back (wont quote myself) .
Over and out.

[Digital66]

Since they were elected, what changes greek government have implemented to combat the corruption and the taxes invasion?

A taxes invasion...   

[Zero Talent]

Since they were elected, what changes greek government have implemented to combat the corruption and the taxes invasion?
They spend their time in European reunions, they don't present serious proposals, how they expect their country to be sustainable? They need to be sustainable to avoid the unhealthy financial system. When they are not in reunions they go to TV and Twitter telling the europeans are terrorist. They closed the banks for a week and they go to TV telling the greeks it is Europe fault. Eurozone is not only Germany and France, it is mainly countries with smaller monthly minimum wage, and surely where you don't pay 2 euros for a coffee... That government is not showing any respect or consideration for the other countries (what kind of democracy is this?) and I think this situation is going to a wrong direction for the greek people, both for the YES or NO perspective.
They only talk of debt restructuring, how many debt restructuring they had already? They don't make changes in their country to limit their expanses, they just need to ask for debt restructuring once a year.

Honestly, if I see only in a personal interest, it's better for me that Greece don't leave the euro because it weaknen the euro.

I waited for a post like yours for days.
I plussed you just for being brutally honest (the only plus i gave in this thread).Dont necessarily agree with you in general (you have made a LOT of points -somne valid some not- regardless of whether you realize it or not), although i agree with some especially the big one where the government -almost CRIMINALLY-failed to impose its own agenda to its country, seeking excuses,but i am relieved that since this thread started you gave the most honest answer as described in the last sentence of your post.

We dont necessarily have to agree here to discuss.
But if there is honesty that can surpass this primal fear of personal loss to the point that someone will come out and openly say "im sorry for them (they messed up though) but im afraid more that it will all tumble down and come to bite me in the @ss" ,meaning that one does not afraid to expose him/herself openly, we then have a connection as people.
If we dont have at least this kind of honesty in a discussion then we have here what i described many pages back (wont quote myself) .
Over and out.

Speaking about honesty, I have no problem quoting myself:

I have no connection with Greece, let alone with PASOK (as per google translate), except for my falling euro savings.

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[Titus Livius]

Poroshenko himself admitted that overthrow of Yanukovych was a coup. Besides, it wasn't Putin who took all the gold from the ukrainian central bank. George Soros paid a visit to Ukraine and now the nobel peace prize winner Obama is crazy to start (another) full scale war. Ukraine today is ruled by foreigners. NATO/EU are our true enemies here, by the time most people realize it will be too late.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-22/ukraine%E2%80%99s-president-poroshenko-admits-overthrow-yanukovych-was-coup

and while they're at it they also appointed the georgian clown Saakashvili as governor of Odessa, he even got the Ukrainian citizenship now.

[Zero Talent]

Says someone with WWII obsessions

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/mobile/news/article/russian-european-far-right-parties-converge-in-st-petersburg/517839.html

actually the european far right supports russia as a counterbalance to NATO and the EU, not because of the cold war or communism or WW2 or whatever happened before 1989.

said that, Putin has never did anything in favour of russian or foreign neo * and nationalists in general, actually under his rule russia approved several anti-racism laws designed to keep the far right at bay .. the  kind of national pride encouraged under Putin is of the "czarist" type.

And you belive that?
Lol.
This is why white supremacists like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Taylor are guest spekers, while democratic protesters are detained and beaten.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/03/23/russia-hosts-fascist-forum-in-st-petersburg/

Somehow, Kremlin belives having the world anti-fascist mononopoly, treats as fascist all those opposing its imperialist ("czarist") nostalgic ambitions, while ecouraging and paying all those knuckleheads to represent its interests in Europe and undermine the union.

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[Zero Talent]

Timeout!

So funny, watch it: https://youtu.be/ur5fGSBsfq8

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[cobalt]

Apparently we all didn�t get it. Greece is not voting on their financial future, they are taking part in a celebration instead.

I sincerly wish Greece all the best, it will be a very hard and long path no matter what they choose.

[Semmick Photo]

Varoufakis is a bellend. He's called the measures  of the eurogroup terrorism. At the same time he expects them to give him more money. He's a bellend.

[cobalt]

Yes, calling us all terrorists and criminals will certainly encourage the Europeans in the other 18 countries to vote to give Greece more money.

But depending on the vote, he will no longer be there tomorrow. But who knows who comes after him?

I mean, they elected him and Tsirpas. If things get worse, who will be next?

[ferdinand]

Yes, calling us all terrorists and criminals will certainly encourage the Europeans in the other 18 countries to vote to give Greece more money.

But depending on the vote, he will no longer be there tomorrow. But who knows who comes after him?

I mean, they elected him and Tsirpas. If things get worse, who will be next?

,,, communists or golden dawn...will be next -

[cobalt]

I guess then even more people will emigrate

But in the end it is their decision. It is their country, nobody else can pull them out of their own mess.

[fritz]

Yes, calling us all terrorists and criminals will certainly encourage the Europeans in the other 18 countries to vote to give Greece more money.

But depending on the vote, he will no longer be there tomorrow. But who knows who comes after him?

I mean, they elected him and Tsirpas. If things get worse, who will be next?

He didn't call YOU terrorist but those bureaucrats in European Commission,International Monetary Fund  and  European Central Bank! and YES I agree they are terrorists and criminals( not as bad as ISIS but still...). Sorry but that's my opinion and don't have time and energy to explain why I think they're high class criminals
Best,
Alex

[ferdinand]

Yes, calling us all terrorists and criminals will certainly encourage the Europeans in the other 18 countries to vote to give Greece more money.

But depending on the vote, he will no longer be there tomorrow. But who knows who comes after him?

I mean, they elected him and Tsirpas. If things get worse, who will be next?

He didn't call YOU terrorist but those bureaucrats in European Commission,International Monetary Fund  and  European Central Bank! and YES I agree they are terrorists and criminals( not as bad as ISIS but still...). Sorry but that's my opinion and don't have time and energy to explain why I think they're high class criminals
Best,
Alex

...exactly - eu bureaucrats are terrorists - no doubt about that...

 - cobalt - you are good photographer, nice girl - with good will  - but you are vary naive...

 

[cobalt]

Yes, calling us all terrorists and criminals will certainly encourage the Europeans in the other 18 countries to vote to give Greece more money.

But depending on the vote, he will no longer be there tomorrow. But who knows who comes after him?

I mean, they elected him and Tsirpas. If things get worse, who will be next?

He didn't call YOU terrorist but those bureaucrats in European Commission,International Monetary Fund  and  European Central Bank! and YES I agree they are terrorists and criminals( not as bad as ISIS but still...). Sorry but that's my opinion and don't have time and energy to explain why I think they're high class criminals
Best,
Alex

I don�t know Alex, the way they have been attacking Germany, Merkel and Sch�uble is an attack on all the millions of Germans that democratically elected them. These are our chosen representatives and if you continuosly attack and insult them, you are insulting all of us here in Germany.

I understand what you are saying, but I really don�t think anywhere in the other 18 eurozone countries are V and T very popular. Just read the comments in the foreign press in these countries.

Like many I found them interesting when they started out, I thought they would be the ones who will now get things done, tax the rich, cut the military spending, go after the church and their extreme financial privileges, but all I saw was an endless waste of time and European resources. And amazing arrogance coupled with misleading populism.

Europe and Brussels are buraucratic and probably quite formal, but I am still happy and proud to be part of the European union. I really wouldn�t want to live anywhere else.

If the people of Greece don�t want to be part of Europe, that is sad, but in the end that is their decision. Sometimes you need to try something and if it doesn�t work, it doesn�t work.

ETA: @ferdinand

my family lives across, the globe, have been refugees and had to leave several countries because of civil war, dictatorships, had to rebuild their lives over and over.. etc...etc...but if you think I am naive, no problem.

I don�t take anything here personal

We all have our own experiences and I love hearing your views.

[cobalt]

In the meantime V has decided that all the other 18 countries will give him a deal in 24 hours if Greece votes no. Isn�t that convenient? Why would we even bother to let our parliaments decide? We should just make him the master of Europe instead.

How can people believe him? They guy said there will be no capital controls and 4 hours later he introduced a limit of just 60 euros a day.

[ferdinand]

 @cobalt

... politically naive -  to be precise -

..fritz already explained it - endless loans are sophisticated way of occupation...

[fritz]

No Comment

Here's Greece's finance minister in 1953, canceling 50% of Germany's debt. Because it was the right thing to do



Cobalt any comment on this photo?

[ferdinand]

...good old black and white photo

[gcrook]

I don�t know Alex, the way they have been attacking Germany, Merkel and Sch�uble is an attack on all the millions of Germans that democratically elected them. These are our chosen representatives and if you continuosly attack and insult them, you are insulting all of us here in Germany.

Did anyone accuse the German people?
Sorry for breaking this to you but thιs sentence right here is undoubtedly the philosophy of totalitarianism.
Since when your government and it's views reflect your people as a whole (even the voters if not all)?
Do you see your people as an entity with common traits and set of mind?By attacking (criticizing actually) your government we attack you?Thats fascism plain and simple and im sorry to say it bluntly.
I dont care how you view yourself but your opinion of the world and society reflected on your writings is hobbesian at its best and fascist at its worst.

[Semmick Photo]

Why do the few  people here defending the Greeks constantly attack the person who doesn't agree with them,  instead of the comment. I've seen Cobalt talk more sense than anyone else in the last 3 pages.

[Semmick Photo]

No Comment

Here's Greece's finance minister in 1953, canceling 50% of Germany's debt. Because it was the right thing to do



Cobalt any comment on this photo?

Times change. Completely different situation. Utter fallacy. Step into the 21st century.

[gcrook]

Why do the few  people here defending the Greeks constantly attack the person who doesn't agree with them,  instead of the comment. I've seen Cobalt talk more sense than anyone else in the last 3 pages.

Speak for yourself and dont try to encapsulate (conveniently) who talks more sense here, and who gets attacked by whom and for what reason.
You are the one in this thread that steps in and tries to moderate the conversation when you feel that is steering away from the general consensus.
I know that you like cobalt's views but thats your business and if cobalt or anyone else posting here makes sense or not that here is for us(EDIT:for "ME to judge" is more appropriate)  to judge,this conversation is not a live political debate.

You never go off topic dragging P5 into every conversation, right? You never have a squabble with anyone, right?

Anyway, carry on, the playground is yours.

This thread is about Greece. If you want to talk about Portugal, its best to open a new thread. Please.

[ferdinand]

Why do the few  people here defending the Greeks constantly attack the person who doesn't agree with them,  instead of the comment. I've seen Cobalt talk more sense than anyone else in the last 3 pages.

... I don t attack person - I attack opinion -

... at least,unlike you,  - cobalt has some opinion...

[CatTheCat]

Well, the NO wins with 52 %.
Let's wait and see.
For a truth democracy, all the people in the eurozone should now vote in a referendum if they agree with the future new decisions, whatever they are.

[gcrook]

Oh thank god,it looks like we might get that 3rd memorandum after all.
Wait what.....