When do I need a property release?

[gunnar3000]

Hi, 


I  have la little questionen today :-)   
when exactly do I need a property relesase?
in the past I avoided to make stockphotos of buildings because I was not sure about some legal issues. I have some nice images of the local power plant. do I need a property-release for such a picture? I tooked the image from a public street.
I just checked some stock agencies... there are lots images of industry facilities. do they all have a property release

thanks a lot 

[gunnar3000]

hi, its me again...

...any suggestions? 

I read some websites about this issue, but there are different opinions.
some people claim that you need a property-releast if your image focus on a private building. In my case (the power plant) the main subject is the private owned plant. so I would need a property release.
other websites claim, that you need no property release, if you shot the image from a public area. from this point of view I would not need a property release...   

so, I am interestet in you opinion :-)   

[Fred]

How about interiors?  I see lots of shots of hotel lobbies and other semi-public areas of buildings - lounges, entryways, etc.  I don't see any with "Property Release available" noted so I guess they don't have them.  This doesn't make it ok, of course, but what is the rule?

fred

[RH]

It depands an the agencies. How could they know, if you shoot the pic from a public area?
BTW: If you shoot animals in a zoo, you normally need a release also or you shoot cut outs, that nobody can identy which zoo it was.

[yingyang0]

Opinions vary because it's not really a settled area. The typical case is one founded in trademark/copyright law were the owner of a famous building trademarks the building or in the case of a building where there is one best vantage point then they copyright that specific view. I think the best case that has discussed this is Rock and Roll Hall of Fame v. Gentile.

The most worrisome developments have been in the torts area. See the link below:
http://www.photoattorney.com/2007/12/property-release-requirement-put-to.html
I wouldn't be that worried in this particular case because the plaintiff's compliant on its face doesn't even allege the basic elements for invasion of privacy and conversion so they should lose on summary judgment for those, leaving only the physical trespass.

To be honest, I'm not really worried about property releases except when there is a statue or some other art in the photo.

BTW: If you shoot animals in a zoo, you normally need a release also or you shoot cut outs, that nobody can identy which zoo it was.

I have to disagree with this. Just because many zoos (like the San Diego Zoo) claim you can't sell the photos doesn't mean that's true. I haven't seen any zoo successfully assert these claims in court. Instead they use intimidation tactics similar to the RIAA, and even less successfully because they have absolutely no legal foundation.

[RT]

I  have la little questionen today :-)   
when exactly do I need a property relesase?

This won't help much, but only you can answer the question, because only you know the: what, where and who elements of your photograph, there are some obvious examples on most stock agencies of what you shouldn't sell but they're only an indication of some common subjects.

I agree with what yingyang0 has said regarding the zoo's and to be honest that can apply in many circumstances, it's up to you to do the research yourself.

I'll finally add that because an agency tells you something don't think for one second that it's correct, the same goes for model releases, all of the agencies make up rules regarding when an image requires a release, most of them are just that - made up!

Of course you'll still need to battle through each individuals agencies requirements with uploading, but that's their terms not the law.

[RH]

@yingyang0:
Hi Brian, in germany all zoo�s have a signpost. I�ve you shoot for commercial you have to ask the administration and must pay about to 75 � per image. Isn�t it the same as a release?

[louoates]

Property release requirement rules are very subjective. I had some interior shots of my dining room and living room rejected for lack of a release by DT but accepted at SS. So the realistic answer to your question is "who . knows?" The practical answer is to upload a release whenever you ask yourself, "do I need a release for this shot"?

[yingyang0]

@yingyang0:
Hi Brian, in germany all zoo�s have a signpost. I�ve you shoot for commercial you have to ask the administration and must pay about to 75 � per image. Isn�t it the same as a release?

I don't know about Germany or German law so I can't speak to how it works there under the civil law tradition. I normally qualify my statements with "in the US" but someone went on a personal attack when I did that in the Copyright Infringement thread so I didn't do it here.

[JC-SL]

I was right with you on one of those copyright threads and still can't believe how many knuckleheads here attack the person and not the issues!  anyhow..  still having a running battle with IS with regards to property releases.  I shoot mainly sport and what images I do send to IS has been altered both in color and content.  Without anything being identifiable I get this response

 " A model release would be required from each person within the file, a property release would be required for each of the horses, and a property release for the field/location/sporting facility signed by the owner of the field/location/sporting would be required and it is very unlikely that the owners would sign off on such a release for commercial purposes.  These regulations are in no way intended to be malicious, these are intended to protect the models, the clients, us and ultimately you.  We want all of our contributors to have the smoothest ride possible in their time here at iStock and these files do present copyright concerns."

The most popular images I have on IS are horseracing, but have been trying for months to find something they'll take...   not even hooves running on grass!  really think they've gone a bit crazy with all this stuff!
UGH!

JC