New contributor referral program at The3dStudio.com - 5% for life

[ThomasAmby]

It does seem like you have a customer base - do you accept vectors (EPS) or do you intend to do it in the near future ?

And also, yes, you would attract significantly more european contributors with an online tax treaty form like the one they set up on Shutterstock

[sharpshot]

Matt, I see we are being asked to fill out a W-8BEN form and have a U.S. Tax ID number, if we are outside the U.S. and want to use the the tax treaty benefits.  Shutterstock recently asked for this but now they have a simple online form and there is no need for a U.S. Tax ID number.  Veer marketplace have a similar simple form.  I think you will need to do this, if you want a significant number of people outside the U.S. to contribute to your site.  Getting a U.S. Tax ID number is a long process and can be expensive.  As we have seen recently, lots of contributors would prefer just using the sites that don't ask for one.

Please don't say it can't be done because that is what shutterstock said, shortly before getting it done.

Can you post a link to this on shutter, I'd be happy to take a look at what's going on and investigate what you are referring to. Of course, I can't guarantee that we can do something simply because some other company does...we have to listen to what our CPA's tell us on this issue and that's why we have the system that we have now. You can email the into to me at [email protected] as well.

You have to be logged in as a contributor to see the form page.  There is a lot of discussion about it in the forum but basically they wanted us to use the method your site uses but it caused a lot of problems for contributors and they came up with a much better solution.  http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/f-18.html

[The3dStudioDotCom]

ThomasAmby: We will be offering Vector options in the future but we want to concentrate on JPGs for now while we get started in stock.

For everyone else, we looking into the "is the ITIN" required issue again. When we first started in 3D the way this was written and the way the CPAs want this done is the way we have it. I would love nothing more than to lose the requirement of requiring a ITIN for individuals so I am seeing what we can figure out on that subject.

As for electronic submission of the W8BEN itself, I think we can likely do this one but are checking to be sure. E-signatures are fairly well accepted these days so I will see what I can find out on that. In the mean time, if anyone wants to be paid you can scan in your W8BEN and simply email it to us as well. I've even had some people take a photo of it and send the photo which is fine as well if you don't have a scanner.

I will keep this post updated with what I find and The3dStudio.com will be updated as well.

[MicrostockExp]

It would great to be able to register for this  ITIN number for us, european contributors Hope you can work something out ...
On the stats side here are mine for 3DS, I am more than happy about it so far, it really put Veer in the dust.....makes you wonder ....

1113 pictures on line, 30,364 views, 6 sales, $33.60 royalties  in 3 weeks

Here is my referral link if you want to use it : http://www.the3dstudio.com/?id_affiliate=467153

L

[gostwyck]

In my view 5% is ridiculously high for a referral __ especially if it is 'for life'.

I'd find it much more of an incentive if you either upped the commission by that amount for 'self-referrals' or, probably better, put the money into increased marketing.

Unfortunately, in my experience, the higher the % commission an agency pays the fewer the sales that result. I can't see how one agency can possibly be effective in a crowded marketplace in which almost all their competitors are paying 30-40% commission. Paying 5% referrals on top of 60% commissions is just not going to work and I'd struggle to take any agency seriously that thought it was practical.

DT have always tried to be as fair as possible to their contributors but even so they have finally had to concede that they must play on a level field and have therefore reduced commissions accordingly.

[cascoly]

why would reducing artist % be the only way to compete? leveling the playing field doesnt require paying the lowest royalties - there are other ways to trim - less overhead, smaller profits for owners & shareholders [who may be passive investors], streamlined web prcessing, better marketing, established loyal customers from other ventures, etc

sites like 3d, yay, cut etc have very liveral acceptance policies - that may backfire in the longrun, but it means their current costs are lower than sites with more reviewers

steve

[goldenangel]

In my view 5% is ridiculously high for a referral __ especially if it is 'for life'.

SS pays 3 cents. I believe their percentage is even higher compared to what contributors get.

[oboy]

The 3D Studio is different the other agencies because the sell not only Stock Images. Probably the size of the company is different too, and that leads to a different structure of the business. If Matt is running The 3D Studio since 1996 then I think he has enough experience to make a calculated decision.

[gostwyck]

SS pays 3 cents. I believe their percentage is even higher compared to what contributors get.

Not the way they've written it "�you get 5% of their sales for life."

They appear to be saying that the referral is 5% of the gross sale price __ not the photographer's commissions.

SS pay 7.8% referral on my commissions for 25-per-day sales but by the time you've taken PPD's and EL's into account it is barely more than 5% of commissions. That's likely to be about 2% of total sales.

[Adeptris]

Gostwyck,
I did think about just your points for quite a while before joining up, as I only contribute to a couple of agencies and do not sign-up easy when a new offering comes up with high commission percentages , but there were some differences with The3dStudio.com that helped me decide, thay are well know and strong in different digital media like 3D and already have a following and a customer base, I looked at the other products which ranged for Free to $300+ this means the customers are not scared to spend for the right product.

Our images are not thier only product so they will have revenue streams to build the library, they do not set the prices the contributor does, they do however suggest default prices of $4, $8 and $12 which seem to work well from the reports here and my own sales, although they are new to stock imaging they are not new to the digital business and I am sure if the default pricing does not work they would let us know, the pressure might come if they over subscribe with contributors, and the less savvy contributors in an effort to grab sales lower thier prices to far.

David    

[The3dStudioDotCom]

Just so everyone understands the 5% program, you are getting that 5% from the cut that The3dStudio.com gets.

For example, our most popular photo size (large) is usually $12 (though you can set that higher). So, on that $12 sale the contributor/seller gets $7.20 in all cases. The3dStudio.com would get $4.80 as our "take".

If there is an affiliate customer referral on that order for 20%, that 20% comes out of our "take" and if there is a 5% referral few then that 5% comes out of our take as well. Meaning, the actual contributor/seller always gets their 60% all the time. I didn't want anyone to think that our program ever reduces what the seller gets.

There are many reasons we can do this, and one of them is just that we are talking about higher priced sales vs "credit" based sites that are more like micro transactions. Now, if one of our $4 photos sells (small size) the profit margin is much smaller than a $12 photo (or a $100 model) but you have to take the good with bad (so to speak) and let it average out over all sales over time.

On top of that, our customer base is made up of huge numbers of repeat customers. So, maybe it costs us $25 to $100 to get that customer to try us but once they do they likely come back and the next time our overall profit margins increase. For us, it's more about getting good and loyal customers (they are out there) and once we do that and show them our service they reward u with continued business and that's when we can start to profit.

Add all of these things up and we are able to offer higher royalty rates, avoid the credit systems and minimum purchases, offer generous affiliate referrals, and so on. The way I see it, there is no right or wrong on this stuff but simply different markets, different customers, and different ways of doing things. We've chosen a different path than what is considered normal in stock and it is (as some suggested) based on our 13+ year experience in stock 3D (which includes stock textures which are essentially stock images for a different market).

We are confident that this will be successful in the long run and also know that we have a huge uphill battle ahead of us. We're not in this to make every rich overnight, this is a long term plan that requires us to really get a lot of contributors at this early stage and then to really go after more and more customers as time goes on.

I think it will be interesting to look back next year at this time and see how it worked out because I really do believe we are going to change the industry. Of course, I know sjlocke will be ready for that comment 

[m@m]

Hello Matt, I've being reading this thread with some interest, also have taken the time to visit The 3D Studio's site and it all sound very promising, I kind of like the idea of a new model to sell stock photos, specially coming from a already established company like yours, there's only one thing that turned me off about the site, and that is in the way the photo thumbnails are presented, from the small size of the thumbnails (were you can't really see what's on the picture) to the catalog look of the presentation, how can a buyer actually see and find what he's/she's looking for without hitting every small picture just to get an idea of what the photo is about? not to mention the quality...is this something that will change in the near future? or does the buyer gets a different view than what I'm looking at?

[gostwyck]

^^^ Thanks very much for the comprehensive clarification. I hope your business model works as intended & I'll be uploading to find out for myself.

Your average Large image price at $12 is still only about the same as IS and there's little to suggest that their customers are price-concious at this level.

[Sean Locke Photography]

I think it will be interesting to look back next year at this time and see how it worked out because I really do believe we are going to change the industry. Of course, I know sjlocke will be ready for that comment 

Ok, since you asked ...  How are you going to "change the industry"? 

[gostwyck]

Ok, since you asked ...  How are you going to "change the industry"? 

I'd say having price levels similar to IS and paying 65% in commission/referrals for non-exclusive images qualifies as 'industry changing' ... if they can generate the volume of sales.

[Sean Locke Photography]

Ok, since you asked ...  How are you going to "change the industry"? 

I'd say having price levels similar to IS and paying 65% in commission/referrals for non-exclusive images qualifies as 'industry changing' ... if they can generate the volume of sales.

Isn't that what Photographer's Direct and Alamy and MyLoupe and whoever else does?  That's not particularly industry changing.  Or is the 'industry changing' part that somehow they are going to garner the sales that none of these existing sites have done?  Alamy gets a lot of sales already.  Didn't they change the industry already?

[gostwyck]

Isn't that what Photographer's Direct and Alamy and MyLoupe and whoever else does?  That's not particularly industry changing.  Or is the 'industry changing' part that somehow they are going to garner the sales that none of these existing sites have done?  Alamy gets a lot of sales already.  Didn't they change the industry already?

Well Alamy, etc aren't at microstock price levels (at least not yet!). I wouldn't say "Alamy gets a lot of sales" either. The last time I saw their figures they licensed about 20K images per month __ compared to IS who license 4x that every weekday or about 2M per month. SS is probably licensing about 3M per month and FT about 1M.

[krimi]

^^^


Your average Large image price at $12 is still only about the same as IS and there's little to suggest that their customers are price-conscious at this level.

but you can quote your own price also

[Eireann]

Hi Matt,
I like you, I like the site and I want to join.
But I'm from Ireland!
I can give you all the legal info you need, Social Security number (called PPS number in Ireland), passport scan, Paypal, etc but that ITIN number seems like hard work. A lot of running around.
Any updates for contributors outside the USA?
Many thanks,
 

[The3dStudioDotCom]

m&m: If you click any small thumbnail you will see a larger images. We've tossed around the idea of offering larger thumbnails as well and it's something that will likely happen in the future as we grow that area of the site more.

sjlocke: We plan to start changing the industry we lots of big promises and talk...oh, wait, that's not right. Well, I think our system of dropping the credit based system is a big first step and that's a benefit to the customer. Second, I think we are paying the contributors/sellers a much better royalty (with no min payout each month with PayPal), and our third move is our 5% for life referral program. We're doing this all on a system where the contributor sets their price at the same time. We've got some other fun stuff cooked up as well as we go but we do this in phases. I figure that at this right we should have world peace figured out in no time...well, that's my goal at least. After that happens (the world peace) I will set my sites on getting you to sell with us as well! I won't make the argument that we are the best for everyone out there, but I think we have a place in this industry and I know we will change it.

Eireann: We are working on the ITIN issue, I hope to hear something from the CPA (tax people) in a few weeks. I can't do what shutter does simply because they do it, I have to follow the laws here and last time we went through this the law said we needed that ITIN. BUT...we're trying to clarify this and will happily remove that barrier the second we are allowed! In the mean time, you can sell without having a W8BEN on file (we just can't pay without one). Also, and I think you likely know this part already, if a tax ever is paid on your royalties it is ONLY from orders placed by USA customers. Around 25% of our business (sellers and buyers) is from the USA so we are very global at this point. I just point that out because if roughly 75% of sales are outside the USA you'd never have a tax issues on those sales regardless of the ITIN stuff.

Hope I didn't miss anyone in this update

[Sean Locke Photography]

sjlocke: We plan to start changing the industry we lots of big promises and talk...oh, wait, that's not right. Well, I think our system of dropping the credit based system is a big first step and that's a benefit to the customer. Second, I think we are paying the contributors/sellers a much better royalty (with no min payout each month with PayPal), and our third move is our 5% for life referral program. We're doing this all on a system where the contributor sets their price at the same time. We've got some other fun stuff cooked up as well as we go but we do this in phases. I figure that at this right we should have world peace figured out in no time...well, that's my goal at least. After that happens (the world peace) I will set my sites on getting you to sell with us as well! I won't make the argument that we are the best for everyone out there, but I think we have a place in this industry and I know we will change it.

I can appreciate you're trying to make the best image marketplace you can that benefits your bottom line.  Right now I see you combining bits and pieces from other sites, but as you said, maybe you've got some magical something up your sleeve that we've never seen before.

You're obviously passionate about your project, so I wish you the best of luck in building it up.

[m@m]

Matt, since I really like your direct and detail answers, the sites background and specially the commissions you offer, (and also believe in magic) count me in as a new contributor, look forward to the larger thumbnails and many sales...  

http://www.the3dstudio.com/?id_affiliate=474737

[The3dStudioDotCom]

Thank you both!

[Eireann]

Hi Matt,
for the time being that's good enough for me.
When it comes to magic, leave it to the Irish Leprechauns. They're not famous for nothing
I'll be joining the site in the next few hours and many thanks for your quick reply.
Best wishes,

One more question regarding illustrations. I understand that at this point in time EPS files cannot be uploaded. But what about the converted, JPEG files? Are they OK to upload? Do you need such files?

[RacePhoto]

Funny how many people are finding ways to pick at this "new" agency which has been around for many years, but when the new wannabee comes along, people jump on the wagon to destruction and defend them? It just seems odd?

Oh yes, I signed up, so at least I have an account and affiliate link. (spam alert) If you don't use mine, at least find someone else from the forum and trade referrals.

3D Studio Affiliate Link