MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => iStockPhoto.com => Topic started by: Lee Torrens on April 01, 2008, 11:55
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Sorry Leaf, couldn't resist. ;) Referring thread (http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php/topic,4114.0.html)
iStock were first to market, so they likely have a lot of buyers who started when they were the only option and have never had a reason to leave.
We all know how loyal iStock exclusive contributors are, so there's likely a similar element in their buying members.
They do a MASSIVE amount of marketing, events and pressing the flesh.
Their website is great for buyers with a lot of functionality that isn't available at competing agencies (zoom to 100%, corporate accounts, etc)
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I agree with Lee. IS is much more evolved in many respects. Buyers feel it. I feel it. Simplicity is not always a winner.
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"They do a MASSIVE amount of marketing"
Where? Before I started working at BTL ageny for a while, I didn't even know they existed. I recently talked to a few high level creative colleagues, and they never heard of it either. People tend to think when they are involved in something that it's all bigger than life
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Maybe they did a massive amount of marketing 2-1/2 years ago when this post was created. And it was on April Fools day so maybe it was a joke.
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That's too funny. Sure, in 2008, I would have totally agreed with Lee!
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I couldn't agree more Lee. Is it time to go exclusive while the others jump ship. Sounds like an opportunity waiting to happen for many shooters. If I went exclusive at Istock I would start at 40%. I haven't seen those kind of numbers in years. They also now pay on a motivation level of who produces the best and highest selling work with more returns. I wish I could say that is how it has been done in the past through Macro but no such offer has ben present. So if you work harder and make more return to me is a very motivating offer.
Best,
Jonathan
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If I went exclusive at Istock I would start at 40%.
Really? How are you going to do that with 12K sales in 3 years? I guess this is yet another of your fantasy number exercises.
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If I went exclusive at Istock I would start at 40%.
Really? How are you going to do that with 12K sales in 3 years? I guess this is yet another of your fantasy number exercises.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure JR passed the Gold mark after me, but is now at 12K+ images sold whereas I'm on 11K with not much to spare - I think its a reasonable bet that on the exclusive Redeemed Credits over the course of a year he'd get to 40% with the increased upload slots etc if he's not there already.
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I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure JR passed the Gold mark after me, but is now at 12K+ images sold whereas I'm on 11K with not much to spare - I think its a reasonable bet that on the exclusive Redeemed Credits over the course of a year he'd get to 40% with the increased upload slots etc if he's not there already.
He must have had some great growth over the last year. Regardless, the point makes sense. It seems like the best options are to go exclusive or leave iStock entirely. Rolling over and accepting under 20% still makes me cringe, and I'm not sure my confidence in IS is strong enough to make the leap to exclusive.
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I think its a reasonable bet that on the exclusive Redeemed Credits over the course of a year he'd get to 40% with the increased upload slots etc if he's not there already.
He's not talking about 'over the course of a year', he's saying immediately __ which is obviously nonsense.
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He's not talking about 'over the course of a year', he's saying immediately __ which is obviously nonsense.
I suppose theoretically it is possible. I'd need about 11k in downloads to reach 150,000 redeemed credits. That's with mostly 10 credit downloads which would be 14 credits as exclusive. Although, I'd assume you'd need more as a photographer, since they don't average as high.
Edit: I realized you'd need to already be exclusive for the above to work, so I guess you'd need to sell 10,000 XL files or 15,000 L files to make 150K of redeemed credits.
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I couldn't agree more Lee. Is it time to go exclusive while the others jump ship. Sounds like an opportunity waiting to happen for many shooters. If I went exclusive at Istock I would start at 40%. I haven't seen those kind of numbers in years. They also now pay on a motivation level of who produces the best and highest selling work with more returns. I wish I could say that is how it has been done in the past through Macro but no such offer has ben present. So if you work harder and make more return to me is a very motivating offer.
Best,
Jonathan
Are you planning to go exclusive at IS? How would you get around the fact that you have ownership stakes in both Blend and Spaces? Would that no longer be a conflict with the IS exclusivity agreement?
FWIW, Jonathan is a high producer. If he says so, I'm willing to believe he can make it to the 40% level. However these numbers will be tough to maintain, even for some of the top shooters.
I can't imagine any serious pro will actually go exclusive at this point. Speaking for myself, I don't ever expect to be jumping back on that fence :P
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I couldn't agree more Lee. Is it time to go exclusive while the others jump ship. Sounds like an opportunity waiting to happen for many shooters. If I went exclusive at Istock I would start at 40%. I haven't seen those kind of numbers in years. They also now pay on a motivation level of who produces the best and highest selling work with more returns. I wish I could say that is how it has been done in the past through Macro but no such offer has ben present. So if you work harder and make more return to me is a very motivating offer.
Best,
Jonathan
That's one way to look at things. But wasn't it much better before the change, even for you? You would have been able to upload about 7,000 images in a year and that would get you to diamond pretty quickly which was permanent. The new change might help you get the 40% rate a few months faster for this year but who knows next year. And how many people are jumping ship, would 1,000 people leaving make anything better for new people? I don't see how changing the goal posts each year is good for anyone, how can you plan for anything if all you know is what you'll make for the next 12 months (and we don't even know if the levels won't be changed sooner, nobody knows anything any more)?
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Hey Gostywk,
I am off on the Istock numbers I am about to hit 40,000 which would be 35%, I read the site info incorrectly. The idea was not to brag about numbers the idea is that no other agency makes a higher per image return and then rewards you for your hard work. Watch how well Istock does in the next year they will easily pass last years sales in a horrible economy. My mistake with the numbers this week. Lots going on and it was completely a mis print. Thank you for bringing to my attention no matter what vehicle you delivered it on. Always happy to step up for my errors and take responsibility.
Jonathan
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Hi Lisa,
I am not an exclusive at this time but if I could do it I would drop the other Micros in a heart beat right now. Being owner of another agency is not a breech in the contract as I know it. It has to do with having RF at other agencies copy written in your name.
Cheers,
Jonathan
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...The idea was not to brag about numbers the idea is that no other agency makes a higher per image return and then rewards you for your hard work...
Maybe I'm missing the obvious, but what kind of rewards are we talking about here? Increasing royalty rates? Because maintaining those rates, even with hard work, is going to be a lot harder at istock for everyone. So maybe I'm missing something...
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Hi Helix,
I think the reduction is unfortunate but they are the top player and I don't think they are going anywhere soon. I think they are positioning themselves against the competition and trying to outplay them. I also don't think they need as many photos as they have and I would prefer they just pull images that have not sold for three years. Many other Macro agencies do this. It keeps your Sell through rate higher and makes you more desirable for an agency to represent you. At the moment anyone can upload there images to Micro but the future might hold something different. Trying to always make your sell through rate strong will only help your business in the long run.
Best, Jonathan
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Being owner of another agency is not a breech in the contract as I know it. It has to do with having RF at other agencies copy written in your name.
I would verify this with Contributor Relations if I were you. At one time you could be thrown off Istock just for being a reviewer at another stock agency, much less an owner. Maybe that's changed, but it would be something to look into if you are serious about exclusivity.
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Hi Lisa,
Thanks for the tip. I have spoken with people there but that is a good point to make clear to them. I appreciate the guidance.
Best,
Jonathan
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I'm pretty sure that's not something that would work...
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Thanks Sean,
If possible you know the company as good if not better than most everyone, can you point me to the part of the contract the reflects that information? I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Jonathan
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Hi all,
I have spoken directly with the company and it is my RF images in Macro that are copy written to my company that keeps me out, I can't un-license them for several years. Thanks for your input.
Best,
Jonathan
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I couldn't agree more Lee. Is it time to go exclusive while the others jump ship. Sounds like an opportunity waiting to happen for many shooters
Except that it isn't an opportunity. What someone with your portfolio is looking to do is dominate the 1st page of searches with your images. If you think that will be easier because a bunch of exclusives are giving up their crowns, think harder about it. Most of those people weren't dominating searches anyhow. Images from Yuri, Lise, Andres, Sean, Iofoto, DNY59, etc are what you see on the 1st pages, and many of these contributors are exclusives who aren't going anywhere, or non-exclusives who aren't going anywhere either.
It might be easier to compete farther down "the tail" but that's about it. You will not get better exposure by jumping in when contributors with less mojo than you are jumping out.
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Hi Lisa,
I am not an exclusive at this time but if I could do it I would drop the other Micros in a heart beat right now. Being owner of another agency is not a breech in the contract as I know it. It has to do with having RF at other agencies copy written in your name.
Cheers,
Jonathan
Jonathan, not so long ago you were dead set against exclusivity with any agency. I'm wondering what's caused you to re-evaluate that position.
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Jonathan, not so long ago you were dead set against exclusivity with any agency. I'm wondering what's caused you to re-evaluate that position.
He mentioned in another thread he is recovering from a soccer injury. Maybe he is on some very nice drugs for the pain ;D
(Just kidding in good fun Jonathan - not taking a shot BTW. )
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Hi Crazy and Lisa,
No , I am only on Ibuprofen, the fun ones always make me cranky in the long run, and you guys don't want that ;) I am always looking into every possibility that is out there so I know where I stand in this business. If there was a chance to make the shift I might have but there isn't so that makes the decision easier.
I still am not happy with the way they changed the standard of exclusivity in the industry but if I want to play there it is important to know the company as well as I can. I think they have a very strong hold on the Micro market and I think their future is bright for people that produce large quantities of salable images ( at least to make a strong income ). Times change in just a year and I try to change with them as much as possible.
If I had the choice with what I see taking place in the Micro market I would go exclusive with my Micro RF mainly because I follow the money as much as possible and I think there is a strong opportunity to make good returns for another 2-3 years until the company is then sold. After new ownership it is hard to say what will happen. Just to confirm, Jonathan Klein said the company will be sold off in the next three years after they build up their inner agencies with higher returns. I think they will rely on Istock heavily to add to that growth and they know how to do that.
I am sad for those that are losing a lot on this deal, I know I will lose a bit but I will keep uploading as a non exclusive because I believe in the companies opportunity to make money even if not an exclusive.
Cheers,
Jonathan
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Thanks for detailed answer Jonathan. I guess it's just good business sense - go with the money while maintaining the flexibility to change if necessary.
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I couldn't agree more Lee. Is it time to go exclusive while the others jump ship. Sounds like an opportunity waiting to happen for many shooters. If I went exclusive at Istock I would start at 40%. I haven't seen those kind of numbers in years. They also now pay on a motivation level of who produces the best and highest selling work with more returns. I wish I could say that is how it has been done in the past through Macro but no such offer has ben present. So if you work harder and make more return to me is a very motivating offer.
Best,
Jonathan
That's a compelling argument if the future is the growth in quality of microstock at the expense of the casual hobbyist. To most of my clients, microstock begins and ends at Istock. They are perfectly happy to pay whatever Istock asks because it's so much cheaper than RM. The only question would be if those kind of buyers will be much of a force in the future. In the same way that assignment photography was and is being squeezed by stock, so the low cost throwaway image market is squeezing the carefully constructed document in favor of the "here today , gone tomorrow" communication model. I agree that the new Istock model in theory will reward the excellent shooter. The question is - will it be a sustainable business model? For all the effort and expense of creating these images, will the RPI continue to shrink, or will it grow again?
As for relaunching Getty in an IPO, if that happens, it would be a great short oppourtunity!
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Jonathan, not so long ago you were dead set against exclusivity with any agency. I'm wondering what's caused you to re-evaluate that position.
He mentioned in another thread he is recovering from a soccer injury. Maybe he is on some very nice drugs for the pain ;D
(Just kidding in good fun Jonathan - not taking a shot BTW. )
Would it have anything to do with your cultura collection on inmagine, will those images be included on IS?
http://www.inmagine.com/cultura-images (http://www.inmagine.com/cultura-images)
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Hi gbalex,
I do have this opportunity to produce content for the new collection and Cultura is part of that so there is still a new opportunity to upload to new outlets. I will be doing some testing on some uploads, see how it goes and report back after I have seen some sales returns. We are all becoming one big happy family :)
Best,
Jonathan
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Hi gbalex,
I do have this opportunity to produce content for the new collection and Cultura is part of that so there is still a new opportunity to upload to new outlets. I will be doing some testing on some uploads, see how it goes and report back after I have seen some sales returns. We are all becoming one big happy family :)
Best,
Jonathan
Thank for the response Jonathan, I am sure your returns will be interesting, thank for offering to report back!