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Author Topic: iStock is making a change to Best Match tonight.  (Read 20245 times)

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« on: December 10, 2012, 23:42 »
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Posted in the best match thread about 20 mins ago by Search Fairy.

I have an update on Best Match.
 
The search team spent last week trying to figure out how Best Match might have changed.  We are still trying toget to the bottom of that, but over the weekend turned our attention instead to how to make it better from where it is right now.
 
To that end, we are going to turn some dials, increasing the impact that downloads have in search result sorting, and decreasing the impact of file age.  After the change, in general you should see more images that have downloads on the first few pages, and an increase in relevance because of that.
 
The change is scheduled to happen overnight, tonight.
 
Typically we would test changes like this with a small percentage of customers to make sure there are not unintended consequences, but given the urgency of the situation we think it is worth the risk to push it out to all customers.
 
Let us know what you think of the adjustment.
 
Thank you for all of the examples, they were very helpful in exploring what is going on.


tee

« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 00:01 »
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Good sign, and I'm grateful for the basic needs of the site finally being addressed. Let's hope this helps some, and when the flip is switched, that the entire site doesn't go down.

KB

« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 00:15 »
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The search team spent last week trying to figure out how Best Match might have changed.  We are still trying toget to the bottom of that, but over the weekend turned our attention instead to how to make it better from where it is right now.
 
To that end, we are going to turn some dials, increasing the impact that downloads have in search result sorting, and decreasing the impact of file age.


To me that just sounds like: "We have no idea at all how this code works, so we're just going to change some things and hope that helps."

Really, really disillusioning.

« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 01:47 »
+1
> To me that just sounds like: "We have no idea at all how this code works,
> so we're just going to change some things and hope that helps."

totally. however, at least they're doing something, which means they have moved away from their "everything is fine, you morons" position.

« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 02:33 »
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Hide and search

They know exactly how it works.
They had turned it into a hide machine, to hide files so they could save money.

All they have done during the last 2 years smells of financial trouble. They said it themselves: "unsustainable".
So they introduced RD and raised the prices so they could be sure the contributors would have a falling share.
Som when contributors complain about falling sales and dropping RD levels, its just a sign of sustainability, exactly as they planned for.
If only the shouting was not so loud and if only the communication was more civilized and not like watching a carcrash.

gillian vann

  • *Gillian*
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 02:36 »
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Let's hope this helps some, and when the flip is switched, that the entire site doesn't go down.

! let's hope not, although it would be hilarious.

« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 03:42 »
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I had an image that peaked at 100 downloads a month but it sold zero times in October and 2 XSmall's in November.  I can understand a slow fall off in sales but this one just got killed.  Until that picks up again, I'll be skeptical about their search.

rubyroo

« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 04:00 »
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I hope this works for those who have seen big drops.  I'm a bit concerned that it sounds like a few tweaks rather than the return to BM2 that so many have recommended.  Also that it's not being tested with buyers at all before it's rolled out (that's a bit bizarre innit?) - but fingers crossed. 

As for me - I've strangely been doing OK on the recent best match, so this may not work so well for me - but nevertheless I'm hopeful that others will recover some of their losses.

« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 04:13 »
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So far, it looks like total disaster for independants. Blue and red flames are just fading into oblivioun. See this is what I cant understand? there are categories where the exclusives simply can not deliver the best possible files, yet others are pushed way back behind the crowns.

Im afraid if they really truly want to increase revenues for both company and contributors, FOR ONCE!  they simply have to mix the crowns with the indies. period!

This is about saving a company, not segregation between exclusives and non exclusives. having in mind that the non-excl, outnumbers the exclusives by 10-1.

Got a funny feeling though they will do the same mistake yet again?

CarlssonInc

« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 04:17 »
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Looks like the change has happened - regular searches I perform now looks "normal" and a fairer representation of ALL images.

« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2012, 04:43 »
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Interestingly, my blue and red flames images came back closer to the top when putting in a couple of their keywords.

« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2012, 05:02 »
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Looks like the change has happened - regular searches I perform now looks "normal" and a fairer representation of ALL images.

Hi Martin!  yes they do. Big improvement actually. Just did a few searches myself within my own fields and it looks much better. Lets hope it carries on.

best.

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2012, 05:06 »
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Yep, big change. Will be interesting to see responses. What some people see as an improvement probably just screwed a bunch of other people. There's no way of making everybody happy.

« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2012, 05:12 »
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Yes same here...definite improvement. How hard was that!!

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2012, 05:33 »
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Not impressed.
On my phone, it defaulted to 'audio only', and each time I tried a new search, it went back to 'audio only'
Doesn't do that on the desktop, but although  the best match are definitely 'different', pushing downloads doesn't always improve keyword relevancy.
Also, when you use two search terms, I'm seeing a lot more of the '0 downloads, same contributor' scenario than I was before, on my search terms.
Vetta being promoted heavily in some searches (Added: in some searches, not at all in others); E+ STILL being shafted. Some photo only searches are still dominated by ingested Vetta raster drawings, with 'extremely variable' quality,
Must be the old geographical difference thing again.
OTOH, as before, the pattern isn't the same with all search terms: i.e. different  'factors' are weighing more heavily than others in different searches.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 06:07 by ShadySue »

rubyroo

« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2012, 05:51 »
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Certainly my flames are now front page, top rows in their categories... but I'm still hunting for my newer stuff.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2012, 06:54 »
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There has been a big change, but are we sure the change they indicated has started?
On every search I've tried, just having two words, not a search phrase, (e.g girl toy) brings all the new 0dl files to the top.
That particular search (girl toy) in my geographical, non-buyer profile has:
9 0dl Agency files, 7 of these from Images_Bazaar
1 video
1 vector
3 0dl Agency files, 2 from Images_bazaar
The next 34 after that are dominated by 0dl Vetta raster illustration images from CSA_Images, most of which are 'fashion dolls' (no girl, unless you count the doll as a girl).
(NB, that's a search I have no personal interest in, but it's more 'general' than my usual personal interest searches)
http://www.lizworld.com/BeM.jpg
That's exactly what people were reporting before.
Do other people's current results look like this?


« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 07:13 by ShadySue »

« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2012, 07:20 »
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There has been a big change, but are we sure the change they indicated has started?
On every search I've tried, just having two words, not a search phrase, (e.g girl toy) brings all the new 0dl files to the top.
That particular search (girl toy) in my geographical, non-buyer profile has:
9 0dl Agency files, 7 of these from Images_Bazaar
1 video
1 vector
3 0dl Agency files, 2 from Images_bazaar
The next 34 after that are dominated by 0dl Vetta raster illustration images from CSA_Images, most of which are 'fashion dolls' (no girl, unless you count the doll as a girl).
(NB, that's a search I have no personal interest in, but it's more 'general' than my usual personal interest searches)
http://www.lizworld.com/BeM.jpg
That's exactly what people were reporting before.
Do other people's current results look like this?


Could it be because changes take a little while to propagate throughout the net?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2012, 08:04 »
0
There has been a big change, but are we sure the change they indicated has started?
On every search I've tried, just having two words, not a search phrase, (e.g girl toy) brings all the new 0dl files to the top.
That particular search (girl toy) in my geographical, non-buyer profile has:
9 0dl Agency files, 7 of these from Images_Bazaar
1 video
1 vector
3 0dl Agency files, 2 from Images_bazaar
The next 34 after that are dominated by 0dl Vetta raster illustration images from CSA_Images, most of which are 'fashion dolls' (no girl, unless you count the doll as a girl).
(NB, that's a search I have no personal interest in, but it's more 'general' than my usual personal interest searches)
http://www.lizworld.com/BeM.jpg
That's exactly what people were reporting before.
Do other people's current results look like this?


Could it be because changes take a little while to propagate throughout the net?

Perhaps, but there has definitely been a change in my personal interest one-word/phrase best match.

« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2012, 13:03 »
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There has been a big change, but are we sure the change they indicated has started?
On every search I've tried, just having two words, not a search phrase, (e.g girl toy) brings all the new 0dl files to the top.
That particular search (girl toy) in my geographical, non-buyer profile has:
9 0dl Agency files, 7 of these from Images_Bazaar
1 video
1 vector
3 0dl Agency files, 2 from Images_bazaar
The next 34 after that are dominated by 0dl Vetta raster illustration images from CSA_Images, most of which are 'fashion dolls' (no girl, unless you count the doll as a girl).
(NB, that's a search I have no personal interest in, but it's more 'general' than my usual personal interest searches)
http://www.lizworld.com/BeM.jpg
That's exactly what people were reporting before.
Do other people's current results look like this?


Could it be because changes take a little while to propagate throughout the net?

Perhaps, but there has definitely been a change in my personal interest one-word/phrase best match.


Well it must have changed drastically. Ive just made 90 quid in the last two hours, the sales are pouring in!

« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2012, 13:10 »
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I have had 0 sales today - that doesn't happen, even on weekends. Feast and famine - enjoy it while it lasts :)

Edited to add that 3 have shown up, but that's still a big drop from even the new "normal-lite"
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 13:33 by jsnover »

« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2012, 13:14 »
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Doesn't this mean new files have little chance to be found?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2012, 13:23 »
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I have had 0 sales today - that doesn't happen, even on weekends. Feast and famine - enjoy it while it lasts :)
Yup, 1 M today.

lisafx

« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2012, 13:46 »
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So far not so good for me either.  Not 0 sales, but about 50% down from the past week or two (which already wasn't good). 

Maybe they increased the exclusive bias a bit more, to throw a bone to exclusives with flaming files?  It would be a sensible thing to do to appease their top sellers...

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2012, 13:50 »
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Like I said above, there's no way of making everybody happy. Some will do better, some will do worse. The next monthly sales thread will likely be just a slightly different list of people complaining their sales have tanked.

« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2012, 13:52 »
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So far not so good for me either.  Not 0 sales, but about 50% down from the past week or two (which already wasn't good). 

Maybe they increased the exclusive bias a bit more, to throw a bone to exclusives with flaming files?  It would be a sensible thing to do to appease their top sellers...

Not a "top seller" but only a large ported "mid class" exclusive here.  I can tell you that sales today not only are not appeasing they are quite depressing.

« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2012, 14:12 »
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Same here, fewer sales than before. best match is not the problem, advertising and marketing is.

traveler1116

« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2012, 14:19 »
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Same here, fewer sales than before. best match is not the problem, advertising and marketing is.
Low sales here but the best match is still broken.  For my hometown where I have a high % of the images, 28 out of the first 30 are non-relevant, 0 DL, Getty images.  Mostly shots of inside doctors offices or at the beach (I don't live near the ocean).

« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2012, 14:23 »
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Haven't they told us several times that the best match we see is not the best match that their customers see?

Seems pointless checking the best match if that is the case, any big customers out there want to do a screen dump for us?

« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2012, 14:36 »
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Haven't they told us several times that the best match we see is not the best match that their customers see?

Yes, they used to tell us that. Interesting they haven't mentioned it, not even a peep, in the latest round of excitement.

« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2012, 14:43 »
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Whatever they did, it's made a big positive difference for me.  Looks like I'll make about 3x what I made yesterday on IS, and it will be my best day in weeks, maybe months.

« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2012, 15:02 »
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Yup, 1 M today.
As in "One million"?  ;)

*SCNR*

lisafx

« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2012, 15:27 »
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Whatever they did, it's made a big positive difference for me.  Looks like I'll make about 3x what I made yesterday on IS, and it will be my best day in weeks, maybe months.

I'm glad it is working for you.  At least there are some who are doing okay ATM.  Kind of like winning the lottery.  And that's really the problem.  The default search order of a major internet business shouldn't be a lottery.  But I guess we all know that already.  Sigh. 

« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2012, 15:38 »
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Whatever they did, it's made a big positive difference for me.  Looks like I'll make about 3x what I made yesterday on IS, and it will be my best day in weeks, maybe months.

I'm glad it is working for you.  At least there are some who are doing okay ATM.  Kind of like winning the lottery.  And that's really the problem.  The default search order of a major internet business shouldn't be a lottery.  But I guess we all know that already.  Sigh.

I'm guessing I'm doing well after the change because I haven't been uploading regularly in years, which probably has been punishing me the way search has been these last few months.  But I have a bunch of flamed images that have probably been elevated today with the search change, so perhaps people who have a lot of flames but haven't uploaded at IS in a long time may see positive results like I have?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2012, 17:06 »
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At least two of my flamers are lower than they were. My new files have dropped, sometimes out of the top 200 in under 48hrs. But one swathe of these recent uploads never really got a place in the sun (another group did, the search was and is different for different words).

« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2012, 17:39 »
+1
This best match change is probably going on for some time before its done. I searched an area where myself and Lisa were totally dominant and before we use to have at least 3 pics a piece on page one. Now they are pushed way back and in favour of many pics which are not only irrelevant but also badly keyworded and ONLY because they are shot by exclusives, I mean it dont even show what I searched for.
As I undestood the important thing here was to sort of "save" the company, etc. quality and commercial value should get prefferance, etc?  but no. As far as I can see, they are still pushing lots of inferior, irrelevant material way up only because the file carries a crown. Bad call from somebody who wants to sort out a company.

Having said this the best match change might still be under way.

lisafx

« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2012, 18:04 »
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This best match change is probably going on for some time before its done. I searched an area where myself and Lisa were totally dominant and before we use to have at least 3 pics a piece on page one. Now they are pushed way back and in favour of many pics which are not only irrelevant but also badly keyworded and ONLY because they are shot by exclusives, I mean it dont even show what I searched for.

I thank you for keeping track.  I stopped doing sample searches a cpuple of years ago when it became obvious that Istock's best match was no longer an acronym for Best Match, but the other, more unpleasant kind of best match. 

mlwinphoto

« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2012, 20:12 »
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This best match change is probably going on for some time before its done. I searched an area where myself and Lisa were totally dominant and before we use to have at least 3 pics a piece on page one. Now they are pushed way back and in favour of many pics which are not only irrelevant but also badly keyworded and ONLY because they are shot by exclusives, I mean it dont even show what I searched for.
As I undestood the important thing here was to sort of "save" the company, etc. quality and commercial value should get prefferance, etc?  but no. As far as I can see, they are still pushing lots of inferior, irrelevant material way up only because the file carries a crown. Bad call from somebody who wants to sort out a company.

Having said this the best match change might still be under way.

This crown took a hit from the best match tweak today.  Several of my files sank several pages in the search order and not a single sale since the 'fix'. 

« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2012, 21:12 »
0
This best match change is probably going on for some time before its done. I searched an area where myself and Lisa were totally dominant and before we use to have at least 3 pics a piece on page one. Now they are pushed way back and in favour of many pics which are not only irrelevant but also badly keyworded and ONLY because they are shot by exclusives, I mean it dont even show what I searched for.
As I undestood the important thing here was to sort of "save" the company, etc. quality and commercial value should get prefferance, etc?  but no. As far as I can see, they are still pushing lots of inferior, irrelevant material way up only because the file carries a crown. Bad call from somebody who wants to sort out a company.

Having said this the best match change might still be under way.

This crown took a hit from the best match tweak today.  Several of my files sank several pages in the search order and not a single sale since the 'fix'.

Other than the Agency junk that's clogging up some searches, I think a number of groups took a hit. I have a grand total of 7 sales, all small or XS which is just a ridiculous Tuesday. Sorry you got wiped out temporarily. Once you've experienced these cliff diving episodes, you "get" why people get worked up about playing games with best match order...

The searches still don't look right, although you can see some minor changes from yesterday (I don't monitor them regularly but had been looking at the examples in the best match thread in the last few days).

« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2012, 02:32 »
0
This best match change is probably going on for some time before its done. I searched an area where myself and Lisa were totally dominant and before we use to have at least 3 pics a piece on page one. Now they are pushed way back and in favour of many pics which are not only irrelevant but also badly keyworded and ONLY because they are shot by exclusives, I mean it dont even show what I searched for.
As I undestood the important thing here was to sort of "save" the company, etc. quality and commercial value should get prefferance, etc?  but no. As far as I can see, they are still pushing lots of inferior, irrelevant material way up only because the file carries a crown. Bad call from somebody who wants to sort out a company.

Having said this the best match change might still be under way.

This crown took a hit from the best match tweak today.  Several of my files sank several pages in the search order and not a single sale since the 'fix'.

Other than the Agency junk that's clogging up some searches, I think a number of groups took a hit. I have a grand total of 7 sales, all small or XS which is just a ridiculous Tuesday. Sorry you got wiped out temporarily. Once you've experienced these cliff diving episodes, you "get" why people get worked up about playing games with best match order...

The searches still don't look right, although you can see some minor changes from yesterday (I don't monitor them regularly but had been looking at the examples in the best match thread in the last few days).


Well, SIGH!  I guess its all so screwed up that its become impossible to even find an algorithm never mind restoring it to normal. Did I make a misstake?  didnt RR say something about welcoming independants back, etc? funny way to go about it.

All this about their "own" engineers, etc. Whats that supposed to mean, all they have are employees. Why dont they just pay for a team of experts and get it sorted out?
Here in Stockholm, a small insignificant picture agency just paid 25K for a search sort out. I suppose they cant afford it.

« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2012, 03:14 »
+3
This is silly, the fix is meant to be about getting the right files in front of buyers.

There is no way they can ensure that every one of their exclusives have their files all moving up the search. The idea that a better search means any particular person's files will be higher up is a complete logical disconnect.

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2012, 05:20 »
+1
This is silly, the fix is meant to be about getting the right files in front of buyers.

There is no way they can ensure that every one of their exclusives have their files all moving up the search. The idea that a better search means any particular person's files will be higher up is a complete logical disconnect.

The "right files" will be different for everybody.

No matter how many times they tweak it some people will be happier and some will think it still has too much of this and not enough of that.

Is this about the right files for buyers or right files to increase sales?


« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2012, 05:36 »
+4
They can tweak best match any way the see fit. But no matter what, no way everyone can go back to making enough sales again as they were 12-14 months ago. Supply greatly outweighs demand at this point, plus many buyers have packed up and left, and there simply aren't enough people to press the "buy now" button to go around anymore. Improving the best match to give buyers more of what they are looking for means they might hold on better to the remaining buyer pool. But it's not going to dramatically change things for individual contributors. The whole best match debacle is a red herring.

Microbius

« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2012, 06:09 »
0
Please tell me stats aren't reporting yesterday and today, otherwise I've just had my first zero download day in many years  >:(
I hope this isn't what the best match "fix" has done

ETA okay, just had the sales show up after I posted, very good day actually  ;D

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2012, 07:12 »
0
Please tell me stats aren't reporting yesterday and today, otherwise I've just had my first zero download day in many years  >:(
I hope this isn't what the best match "fix" has done

ETA okay, just had the sales show up after I posted, very good day actually  ;D
Was that a huge batch of iStock subscription sales?
Lousy day yesterday for me and nada so far today.  :(

« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2012, 07:15 »
0
The whole best match debacle is a red herring.

I've been saying this for ages, but it's a simple thing for people to understand and the company can make changes without actually having to pony up any cash so it's very attractive for both sides to focus on it.

More buyers and better royalties are what's needed more than anything else. If artists lobbied harder for those things we might be able to make this business sustainable.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2012, 07:29 »
0
Search: Girl toy
That particular search (girl toy) in my geographical, non-buyer profile has:
9 0dl Agency files, 7 of these from Images_Bazaar
1 video
1 vector
3 0dl Agency files, 2 from Images_bazaar
The next 34 after that are dominated by 0dl Vetta raster illustration images from CSA_Images, most of which are 'fashion dolls' (no girl, unless you count the doll as a girl).
(NB, that's a search I have no personal interest in, but it's more 'general' than my usual personal interest searches)
http://www.lizworld.com/BeM.jpg
That's exactly what people were reporting before.
Do other people's current results look like this?


Could it be because changes take a little while to propagate throughout the net?

Perhaps, but there has definitely been a change in my personal interest one-word/phrase best match.

Today the only change is that the top three files (for girl, toy) are now a different ingested Agency supplier, WaveBreak, everything else has dropped down three places.

Lots of two-word searches are still totally dominated by these very retro raster images from CSA.
And even where CSA isn't dominating, the two word search is very much the same pattern as before, with 0 images files dominating.
In my best match for "african elephant" river, there are three apparently identical photos in positions 5, 6 and 7.  ::)  >:(

ETA: that said, there has been a change since yesterday on "african elephant" as one 'keyword phrase'. Looks like a reasonable-ish mix at the top, though indies won't think so (5 indies in top 20, all media). It doesn't take long before the 0 sales files are dominating.
So whatever they changed, it wasn't very radical.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 08:16 by ShadySue »

« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2012, 10:32 »
+2
The only way contributors are going to see their incomes increase again is if iStock's site traffic goes back up. So you have an oversupplied archive and an under supplied buyer pool.

That means iStock really has to roll up their sleeves, get out there, and push the market by investing in marketing and advertising.

But if they aren't even willing to reach into their fat pockets to hire the right developers to expeditiously fix site problems, then they are never going to spend money on marketing and brand development.

The only brand of value to the owners in terms of promoting at this point is Getty and so iStock is being marginalized.

Best match tweaks are just smoke and mirror fixes to make it look as they are being proactive to the contributors. You can even bring back the contributor acclaimed BM2 and still little will change. No increased traffic, no increased downloads.

« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2012, 10:38 »
0
The only way contributors are going to see their incomes increase again is if iStock's site traffic goes back up. So you have an oversupplied archive and an under supplied buyer pool.

That means iStock really has to roll up their sleeves, get out there, and push the market by investing in marketing and advertising.

But if they aren't even willing to reach into their fat pockets to hire the right developers to expeditiously fix site problems, then they are never going to spend money on marketing and brand development.

The only brand of value to the owners in terms of promoting at this point is Getty and so iStock is being marginalized.

Best match tweaks are just smoke and mirror fixes to make it look as they are being proactive to the contributors. You can even bring back the contributor acclaimed BM2 and still little will change. No increased traffic, no increased downloads.

Youre right actually!  this best match tweak is just a playact. Makes it look as if they are doing something.

« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2012, 11:20 »
+2

Youre right actually!  this best match tweak is just a playact. Makes it look as if they are doing something.

Thanks. Now my maths isn't so good cause I nevva finish skool so just bear wiff me ok?

But I can tell you one thing. Double the volume of pictures, times half the site traffic as before gives you 25% of the total downloads from a year ago equals a bunch of upset contributors shouting for answers. So whatever admins are left running the little store in Calgary they are trying like mad to window dress as best they can before all the contributors realize the best match isn't going to save them, they hand in their crowns, and then there is no longer a little shop for them to go to work in anymore.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 11:24 by iStop »

« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2012, 11:26 »
0

Youre right actually!  this best match tweak is just a playact. Makes it look as if they are doing something.

Thanks. Now my maths isn't so good cause I nevva finish skool so just bear wiff me ok?

But I can tell you one thing. Double the volume of pictures, times half the site traffic as before gives you 25% of the total downloads from a year ago equals a bunch of upset contributors shouting for answers. So whatever admins are left running the little store in Calgary they are trying like mad to window dress as best they can before all the contributors realize the best match isn't going to save them, they hand in their crowns, and then there is no longer a little shop for them to go to work in anymore.
|
Brilliant. This sounds spot on.

lisafx

« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2012, 11:27 »
0
The only way contributors are going to see their incomes increase again is if iStock's site traffic goes back up. So you have an oversupplied archive and an under supplied buyer pool.

That means iStock really has to roll up their sleeves, get out there, and push the market by investing in marketing and advertising.

But if they aren't even willing to reach into their fat pockets to hire the right developers to expeditiously fix site problems, then they are never going to spend money on marketing and brand development.

The only brand of value to the owners in terms of promoting at this point is Getty and so iStock is being marginalized.

Best match tweaks are just smoke and mirror fixes to make it look as they are being proactive to the contributors. You can even bring back the contributor acclaimed BM2 and still little will change. No increased traffic, no increased downloads.

Very well put.  Your posts are extremely rational and enlightening.  Thank you :)

« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2012, 11:34 »
0
Thank you lisafx. Now that I am not doing the shoot, upload, repeat dance, nor busy putting in many payment of earnings requests anymore, I have lots of time to contemplate my navel. :)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 11:46 by iStop »

« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2012, 12:12 »
+2
By the way, closing down iStock regional offices (Germany) cutting down staff (Calgary), and outsourcing IT (South America) means there isn't anybody around the store to drive the stock photo buyers' market back in iStock's direction.

But none of this is actually for me to worry about according to my job description as artist supplier, right? So things like site problems, malfunctions, accounting errors, losses in site traffic, competitors gaining market share, scam sites reselling iStock contributor content, the buyers' rising price concerns, to zoom or not to zoom, to show dollar prices or not, fraud and charge backs, refunds and charge backs, incorrect picture view tallying, file descriptions that need to be edited twice for any changes to be reflected on the site, and whatever else goes wrong with my agent's cyber sales platform, these things are just not my job to worry about, right?

After all, I am blessed with the easier job of only having to try to supply iStock with something they can sell. So I shouldn't be worrying about all these other logistical things. I should just keep it simple and do my job and let them do theirs. And I mean that. So why is it we always have to cross the line and try and help them do their job anyway and then still have to try and keep them honest with us on top of it all?

Thank god though they see the value of me and my contributions by paying me so much more than they pay themselves when the products I create for us do sell. So, see that, I've really got nothing to complain about :)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 12:40 by iStop »

« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2012, 13:04 »
0
Better sales here, not still the way they were but good enough.

« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2012, 14:00 »
0
Funny this! because whatever happens, good search or bad, whatever. It will never, ever, in 1000 years benefit an independant. Although we outnumber the excl. by 20-1. they still after all these blinding misstakes, errors, issues, whallops,...... that a crown will bring them revenues.

No I dont think that Getty, behind the scenes is masterminding this. I have known them since 93 and frankly they are a quite clever bunch.
I am sure its been left to the IS Admin, which is exactly what bothers me.

mlwinphoto

« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2012, 14:13 »
+1
Funny this! because whatever happens, good search or bad, whatever. It will never, ever, in 1000 years benefit an independant. Although we outnumber the excl. by 20-1. they still after all these blinding misstakes, errors, issues, whallops,...... that a crown will bring them revenues.

No I dont think that Getty, behind the scenes is masterminding this. I have known them since 93 and frankly they are a quite clever bunch.
I am sure its been left to the IS Admin, which is exactly what bothers me.

And here I am thinking about dropping my crown (after only 5 months) and going back to being an independent.  My income may drop but so will my blood pressure.  Having my photography income solely in the hands of the train wreck that iStock is becoming is not a pleasant thought.

« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2012, 15:34 »
+2
And here I am thinking about dropping my crown (after only 5 months) and going back to being an independent.  My income may drop but so will my blood pressure.  Having my photography income solely in the hands of the train wreck that iStock is becoming is not a pleasant thought.

It's unlikely to improve or level out anytime soon either. Look at Sean's downloads graph and those of others too. Let the trend be your friend.

Anyone thinking of ditching their crown needs to consider the timing in order to minimise loss of income and give their images the best of starts at the other agencies, most especially at SS. Right now is probably the optimum time to give the 30-day notice or close to it . Sales accelerate sharply from mid-January until the end of March so that's when the demand for new images is at it's peak. Early sales are a huge help in getting images to the top of the sort-order at SS and, as an independent contributor, that's where 50% of your microstock earnings are most likely to be coming from.

« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2012, 15:43 »
0

Anyone thinking of ditching their crown needs to consider the timing in order to minimise loss of income and give their images the best of starts at the other agencies, most especially at SS. Right now is probably the optimum time to give the 30-day notice or close to it . Sales accelerate sharply from mid-January until the end of March so that's when the demand for new images is at it's peak. Early sales are a huge help in getting images to the top of the sort-order at SS and, as an independent contributor, that's where 50% of your microstock earnings are most likely to be coming from.

Great advice, thanks. Is there a similar high-sales period at SS in Sep-Nov? I ask because my ark is not yet even half-built.

« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2012, 15:57 »
0
Great advice, thanks. Is there a similar high-sales period at SS in Sep-Nov? I ask because my ark is not yet even half-built.

Yes. March was a BME for me this year followed by massive, and I do mean massive, BME's in both October and November.

SS have already projected revenues to rise to $160M+ for 2012 (up from $121M in 2011) and then to over $200M in 2013. Looking at my graph, which pretty much matches SS's growth, I'm anticipating a few more BME's next year. Oh yes.

Trust me, SS is a different game to what you're used to. The graph of sales is the same shape as the IS graphs that folk have been posting __ except that it's a mirror image.

traveler1116

« Reply #60 on: December 12, 2012, 16:02 »
0
Great advice, thanks. Is there a similar high-sales period at SS in Sep-Nov? I ask because my ark is not yet even half-built.

Yes. March was a BME for me this year followed by massive, and I do mean massive, BME's in both October and November.

SS have already projected revenues to rise to $160M+ for 2012 (up from $121M in 2011) and then to over $200M in 2013. Looking at my graph, which pretty much matches SS's growth, I'm anticipating a few more BME's next year. Oh yes.

Trust me, SS is a different game to what you're used to. The graph of sales is the same shape as the IS graphs that folk have been posting __ except that it's a mirror image.
That doesn't seem to be the experience of many exclusives that have left, most or all had massive drops income and have slowly (after a year or more) worked their way up to near what they were at before.  I don't think the picture is as rosy as you paint it but if you have some examples to counter this I would love to see them.

« Reply #61 on: December 12, 2012, 16:55 »
0

Anyone thinking of ditching their crown needs to consider the timing in order to minimise loss of income and give their images the best of starts at the other agencies, most especially at SS. Right now is probably the optimum time to give the 30-day notice or close to it . Sales accelerate sharply from mid-January until the end of March so that's when the demand for new images is at it's peak. Early sales are a huge help in getting images to the top of the sort-order at SS and, as an independent contributor, that's where 50% of your microstock earnings are most likely to be coming from.

Great advice, thanks. Is there a similar high-sales period at SS in Sep-Nov? I ask because my ark is not yet even half-built.

Take it with a pinch of salt. Euforia sets in whenever an exeptional month at SS. I myself had a month during this year where I earned almost 5K, next month under 2K. So you know it varies same as everywhere.
SS is great but after the IPO, there are hints in their own forum that things aint what they used to be. I dont know really but something is cooking thats for sure. One of the absoloute best earners at SS is a personal friend of mine and he agree, something is not right?

Nothing in micro is to be taken seriously or at face value. Its just a numbers game. Safest bet is to stay where you are and not venture into unknown territory.

best.

« Reply #62 on: December 12, 2012, 17:01 »
0
The only way contributors are going to see their incomes increase again is if iStock's site traffic goes back up. So you have an oversupplied archive and an under supplied buyer pool.

An under supplied buyer pool which was caused by iStock's mismanagement of their IT department.

Quote
That means iStock really has to roll up their sleeves, get out there, and push the market by investing in marketing and advertising.

Correct - as long as the product they are supposed to sell is working 100%. Showing the current iStock web site to a new buyer might rather scare them away than invite them to put money into it...

Quote
But if they aren't even willing to reach into their fat pockets to hire the right developers to expeditiously fix site problems, then they are never going to spend money on marketing and brand development. ...

These expenses should go hand in hand.

Poncke

« Reply #63 on: December 12, 2012, 17:19 »
0

Anyone thinking of ditching their crown needs to consider the timing in order to minimise loss of income and give their images the best of starts at the other agencies, most especially at SS. Right now is probably the optimum time to give the 30-day notice or close to it . Sales accelerate sharply from mid-January until the end of March so that's when the demand for new images is at it's peak. Early sales are a huge help in getting images to the top of the sort-order at SS and, as an independent contributor, that's where 50% of your microstock earnings are most likely to be coming from.

Great advice, thanks. Is there a similar high-sales period at SS in Sep-Nov? I ask because my ark is not yet even half-built.

Take it with a pinch of salt. Euforia sets in whenever an exeptional month at SS. I myself had a month during this year where I earned almost 5K, next month under 2K. So you know it varies same as everywhere.
SS is great but after the IPO, there are hints in their own forum that things aint what they used to be. I dont know really but something is cooking thats for sure. One of the absoloute best earners at SS is a personal friend of mine and he agree, something is not right?

Nothing in micro is to be taken seriously or at face value. Its just a numbers game. Safest bet is to stay where you are and not venture into unknown territory.

best.
What for influence has an IPO on the workings of a stock site? 

« Reply #64 on: December 12, 2012, 19:47 »
+1
Great advice, thanks. Is there a similar high-sales period at SS in Sep-Nov? I ask because my ark is not yet even half-built.

Yes. March was a BME for me this year followed by massive, and I do mean massive, BME's in both October and November.

SS have already projected revenues to rise to $160M+ for 2012 (up from $121M in 2011) and then to over $200M in 2013. Looking at my graph, which pretty much matches SS's growth, I'm anticipating a few more BME's next year. Oh yes.

Trust me, SS is a different game to what you're used to. The graph of sales is the same shape as the IS graphs that folk have been posting __ except that it's a mirror image.
That doesn't seem to be the experience of many exclusives that have left, most or all had massive drops income and have slowly (after a year or more) worked their way up to near what they were at before.  I don't think the picture is as rosy as you paint it but if you have some examples to counter this I would love to see them.

I can only speak from my own experience of sales/income from SS. Obviously, with 8 years there, I've had the opportunity to get many of my images well established in the default sort-order. It does take time to do that but, if their work is good enough, then the same should happen to any other contributor. It really is a true meritocracy of images. Truth is SS is going up, IS is going down, and it's entirely up to you where to place your chips. From my data, to any casual observer, it would be a very easy decision to take.

« Reply #65 on: December 12, 2012, 20:51 »
+2
Great advice, thanks. Is there a similar high-sales period at SS in Sep-Nov? I ask because my ark is not yet even half-built.

Yes. March was a BME for me this year followed by massive, and I do mean massive, BME's in both October and November.

SS have already projected revenues to rise to $160M+ for 2012 (up from $121M in 2011) and then to over $200M in 2013. Looking at my graph, which pretty much matches SS's growth, I'm anticipating a few more BME's next year. Oh yes.

Trust me, SS is a different game to what you're used to. The graph of sales is the same shape as the IS graphs that folk have been posting __ except that it's a mirror image.
That doesn't seem to be the experience of many exclusives that have left, most or all had massive drops income and have slowly (after a year or more) worked their way up to near what they were at before.  I don't think the picture is as rosy as you paint it but if you have some examples to counter this I would love to see them.

I don't know what you're hoping to see, but as many, many diamond and up iStock exclusives were saying their Nov 2012 earnings were 50% of what they were in November 2010, I think being where I was in 2010 is not bad. SS had BMEs in October and November and unless iStock falls even further in the toilet next year, continued strength at SS may mean some growth over 2012 numbers.

I'll take reversing the slide over being sad over a 50% drop any day. You can take it as not rosy because I'm not above 2010, but I'd rather see the positive trends and how it could have been me in that -50% camp.

« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2012, 02:41 »
0
Funny this! because whatever happens, good search or bad, whatever. It will never, ever, in 1000 years benefit an independant. Although we outnumber the excl. by 20-1. they still after all these blinding misstakes, errors, issues, whallops,...... that a crown will bring them revenues.

No I dont think that Getty, behind the scenes is masterminding this. I have known them since 93 and frankly they are a quite clever bunch.
I am sure its been left to the IS Admin, which is exactly what bothers me.

And here I am thinking about dropping my crown (after only 5 months) and going back to being an independent.  My income may drop but so will my blood pressure.  Having my photography income solely in the hands of the train wreck that iStock is becoming is not a pleasant thought.

IMO and after 25 years of supplying in this bloody stock game, one is as good or bad as the other but let me tell you this. I know 4 of my old pals, yes we are old hands you know, some would even call us antiques. In the beginning of 2013, they will pull their ports from every sigle micro agency and I am not talking some neewbie ports here but ports with 5000+ images AND put them into macro-RF or whatever, as long as its not micro.
I myself will hang on a bit more since I want to see the outcome of all this with IS and SS, etc.

Best advice I can give with my humble experience is to start thinking beyond micro, start thinking about getting some value for your craft. Micro is a concept, its riding on its 13th year which really means that the golden halleluja days are over. :)

PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2012, 06:35 »
0
Funny this! because whatever happens, good search or bad, whatever. It will never, ever, in 1000 years benefit an independant. Although we outnumber the excl. by 20-1. they still after all these blinding misstakes, errors, issues, whallops,...... that a crown will bring them revenues.

No I dont think that Getty, behind the scenes is masterminding this. I have known them since 93 and frankly they are a quite clever bunch.
I am sure its been left to the IS Admin, which is exactly what bothers me.

And here I am thinking about dropping my crown (after only 5 months) and going back to being an independent.  My income may drop but so will my blood pressure.  Having my photography income solely in the hands of the train wreck that iStock is becoming is not a pleasant thought.

IMO and after 25 years of supplying in this bloody stock game, one is as good or bad as the other but let me tell you this. I know 4 of my old pals, yes we are old hands you know, some would even call us antiques. In the beginning of 2013, they will pull their ports from every sigle micro agency and I am not talking some neewbie ports here but ports with 5000+ images AND put them into macro-RF or whatever, as long as its not micro.
I myself will hang on a bit more since I want to see the outcome of all this with IS and SS, etc.

Best advice I can give with my humble experience is to start thinking beyond micro, start thinking about getting some value for your craft. Micro is a concept, its riding on its 13th year which really means that the golden halleluja days are over. :)

But what can you put on macro that already isn't in micro? Unless you have a specialization with access to stuff that few people can get, maybe like oil rigs ;), you're probably not going to do well.

« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2012, 07:46 »
0
Funny this! because whatever happens, good search or bad, whatever. It will never, ever, in 1000 years benefit an independant. Although we outnumber the excl. by 20-1. they still after all these blinding misstakes, errors, issues, whallops,...... that a crown will bring them revenues.

No I dont think that Getty, behind the scenes is masterminding this. I have known them since 93 and frankly they are a quite clever bunch.
I am sure its been left to the IS Admin, which is exactly what bothers me.

And here I am thinking about dropping my crown (after only 5 months) and going back to being an independent.  My income may drop but so will my blood pressure.  Having my photography income solely in the hands of the train wreck that iStock is becoming is not a pleasant thought.

IMO and after 25 years of supplying in this bloody stock game, one is as good or bad as the other but let me tell you this. I know 4 of my old pals, yes we are old hands you know, some would even call us antiques. In the beginning of 2013, they will pull their ports from every sigle micro agency and I am not talking some neewbie ports here but ports with 5000+ images AND put them into macro-RF or whatever, as long as its not micro.
I myself will hang on a bit more since I want to see the outcome of all this with IS and SS, etc.

Best advice I can give with my humble experience is to start thinking beyond micro, start thinking about getting some value for your craft. Micro is a concept, its riding on its 13th year which really means that the golden halleluja days are over. :)

But what can you put on macro that already isn't in micro? Unless you have a specialization with access to stuff that few people can get, maybe like oil rigs ;), you're probably not going to do well.

Nah forget that! I got much more specialized stuff then oil industry already as RM and RF, selling really well. BTW, I was refering to macro-RF not RF such as in micro.

« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2012, 17:21 »
0
Thanks for the helpful advice, gostwyk and jsnover. Appreciated.

mlwinphoto

« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2012, 20:40 »
0
Funny this! because whatever happens, good search or bad, whatever. It will never, ever, in 1000 years benefit an independant. Although we outnumber the excl. by 20-1. they still after all these blinding misstakes, errors, issues, whallops,...... that a crown will bring them revenues.

No I dont think that Getty, behind the scenes is masterminding this. I have known them since 93 and frankly they are a quite clever bunch.
I am sure its been left to the IS Admin, which is exactly what bothers me.

And here I am thinking about dropping my crown (after only 5 months) and going back to being an independent.  My income may drop but so will my blood pressure.  Having my photography income solely in the hands of the train wreck that iStock is becoming is not a pleasant thought.

IMO and after 25 years of supplying in this bloody stock game, one is as good or bad as the other but let me tell you this. I know 4 of my old pals, yes we are old hands you know, some would even call us antiques. In the beginning of 2013, they will pull their ports from every sigle micro agency and I am not talking some neewbie ports here but ports with 5000+ images AND put them into macro-RF or whatever, as long as its not micro.
I myself will hang on a bit more since I want to see the outcome of all this with IS and SS, etc.

Best advice I can give with my humble experience is to start thinking beyond micro, start thinking about getting some value for your craft. Micro is a concept, its riding on its 13th year which really means that the golden halleluja days are over. :)

Well, I don't have 5,000 images on micro but I'm going to be doing the same. 
Only one sale since the latest iStock best match tweak and very little hope that the sinking ship can be righted....sick and tired of the games they play with their contributors livelihoods.
I'm also going to devote more of my shooting and marketing efforts into promoting my own work in the RM marketplace....put my fate into my own hands, so to speak.
If I going down in flames in this business I want it to be of my own doing, not someone elses.

« Reply #71 on: December 14, 2012, 01:52 »
+1
The thread started by a frustrated long term buyer has now been locked. His post from earlier today about the current state of best match results seems pretty accurate to me:

"I have just come back to have a look at the site after one of my colleagues mentioned that the Zoom function is back.  It does look good I must say and seems to load quicker than its previous incarnation.

however, I just wanted to say that there is a lot of talk about how dreadful Best Match is at the moment and how it got even worse.

Ive just taken a good look and searched for the sort of things I normally or typically look for.  I just cannot believe it. How can 18 images by the same photographer all in a row of the same subject possibly be part of a legitimate Best Match?

I am sorry, but until this changes for the good (it is truly dreadful at the moment) neither myself nor any of my colleagues are likely to be rushing back here for stock images. Just have a look how well Best Match type seaches work on other sites and perhaps it will be easy to understand why previously dedicated buyers like me (and others) prefer to buy elsewhere at the moment."


So SearchFairy twiddled a few dials and this is the outcome?

It seems to me as long as iStock is a dumping ground for Getty Agency/Vetta files which get a huge advantage in placement (and it was promised when these ingestions began that they'd fix best match so that they didn't all appear up front like new content typically would; so much for that), and on which Getty makes so much more money - paying 20% royalty on content they don't own vs. up to 28% on iStock contributors' content - they have no incentive to fix this even though the results are so awful when you do common searches.

On a separate but related note: I recall many forum discussions where someone would say they got terrible results searching for (some single term) and there'd be a chorus of self-righteous contributors saying that of course you got rubbish; you needed to refine the search with multiple terms. In the course of the discussion about best match results, Rebecca and SearchFairy said that buyers typically use a single search term so showing examples where multiple terms made for horrible results wasn't really pertienent.

If it wasn't so many people's livelihoods, it'd be funny...

« Reply #72 on: December 14, 2012, 02:19 »
0
The thread started by a frustrated long term buyer has now been locked. His post from earlier today about the current state of best match results seems pretty accurate to me:

"I have just come back to have a look at the site after one of my colleagues mentioned that the Zoom function is back.  It does look good I must say and seems to load quicker than its previous incarnation.

however, I just wanted to say that there is a lot of talk about how dreadful Best Match is at the moment and how it got even worse.

Ive just taken a good look and searched for the sort of things I normally or typically look for.  I just cannot believe it. How can 18 images by the same photographer all in a row of the same subject possibly be part of a legitimate Best Match?

I am sorry, but until this changes for the good (it is truly dreadful at the moment) neither myself nor any of my colleagues are likely to be rushing back here for stock images. Just have a look how well Best Match type seaches work on other sites and perhaps it will be easy to understand why previously dedicated buyers like me (and others) prefer to buy elsewhere at the moment."


So SearchFairy twiddled a few dials and this is the outcome?

It seems to me as long as iStock is a dumping ground for Getty Agency/Vetta files which get a huge advantage in placement (and it was promised when these ingestions began that they'd fix best match so that they didn't all appear up front like new content typically would; so much for that), and on which Getty makes so much more money - paying 20% royalty on content they don't own vs. up to 28% on iStock contributors' content - they have no incentive to fix this even though the results are so awful when you do common searches.

On a separate but related note: I recall many forum discussions where someone would say they got terrible results searching for (some single term) and there'd be a chorus of self-righteous contributors saying that of course you got rubbish; you needed to refine the search with multiple terms. In the course of the discussion about best match results, Rebecca and SearchFairy said that buyers typically use a single search term so showing examples where multiple terms made for horrible results wasn't really pertienent.

If it wasn't so many people's livelihoods, it'd be funny...


Ofcourse!  when all their PR avenues has been closed, people didnt fall for it, didnt swallow the garbage, what else? when fighting a losing battle but to close the threads and hide in shame.

« Reply #73 on: December 19, 2012, 08:09 »
0
That last best match shift has really screwed up my port and basically jumbled up everything, my sales have plummeted.


 

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