MicrostockGroup

Top Tier - Big 4 => iStockPhoto.com => Topic started by: vonkara on November 24, 2008, 20:26

Title: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: vonkara on November 24, 2008, 20:26
There was another thread on Istock lately where people was giving their stats trend. The result have been calculated mostly on people statements made in that thread.

+ IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

- IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

= IIIIIII

The question here will be on how does your Istock stats goes lately.


Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 24, 2008, 23:49
 Mine have dropped to the lowest of any of my sites, even on a Per image calculation. Thank goodness for the other sites the sales there have been great! I think you just have to wait it out or choose not to upload, it's about your only choice. I have gobs of images so I figure just keep uploading and hope for better sales.

Good Luck,
AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: pancaketom on November 25, 2008, 00:01
went from solid number 2 to number 4 so far this month, projected to be down about 50%.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: tubed on November 25, 2008, 00:20
I have seen a couple of sales here and there but really nothing to say things are getting better.. Still suckin..
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: nruboc on November 25, 2008, 01:45
I've never felt the motivation to upload to IStock much.....thanks to ShutterStock and Fotolia, I can do without the site with the most PITA upload process...
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: CCK on November 25, 2008, 01:48
Down to about 10% of what it used to be, in no of downloads and money made.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Smithore on November 25, 2008, 01:53
Down by 50% since June...
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: shank_ali on November 25, 2008, 02:14
I got accepted as a contributor in novemeber 2007.Each month it just keep getting better and better in regards of sales.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Konstantin Sutyagin on November 25, 2008, 02:21
Right now sales mostly depend on wherever you are exclusive to IS or not.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: sharpshot on November 25, 2008, 03:41
My sales have slumped and now my motivation to upload there is rapidly diminishing.  The good news is the other sites are doing well.  If istock sales stay this low, I will stop uploading.  They need to sell lots to justify a 20% commission.  Perhaps we should be demanding more?  I am sure they could give us all a 10% rise if the alternative was loosing our new images.  They can get away with 20% when they are ahead of the other sites but that is no longer the case.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Kngkyle on November 25, 2008, 03:50
Sales have picked up for me in the past 5 days. In fact, I've had more sales in the past 5 days than in the first 19 days of the month. Probably just luck, but did they change something? This month has already been better than last month, but that isn't saying much considering even Crestock beat IS in October.  :-\

I too have lost my motivation to upload there. I can only hope for things to continue the way they have been the past 5 days, then maybe we will at least be on the right track.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Gimmerton on November 25, 2008, 04:31
50% Down compared to October, sempiternum time reviews... It's a pleasure work with you iStock  ;D
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: leszek on November 25, 2008, 04:41
Extremely slow review process, rejections for traditional "artifacts" and "overfiltering", slow sales...no need to say anything more, except that Istock is my number 7 (out of 7) this month.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lagereek on November 25, 2008, 04:48
Yep!  down 30%  but not complaining. For some weird reason the other three agencies, handsomely made up for it and more.
Im more concerned about future uploading. Is it worth it? specialized imagery, just to never see them.

best.  Christian
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Argus on November 25, 2008, 05:05
Amazingly this month looks to be slightly better then october (but hey that doesnt mean much at all since iStock is still one of my worst performers)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: rene on November 25, 2008, 06:51
Down 30-40 %.
For the first time for 16 months SS makes better than IS for me.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: dbvirago on November 25, 2008, 07:01
From 20% to 3% of my income since first of year.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: bonus on November 25, 2008, 09:41
What is the question? If you look in the other mostly stockforums in the world, everywhere people write the same. Sales there have decreased catastrophically. And the tendency proceeds. Down! I think a some more time and authors will leave from this stock.
At least IS has undermined trust on the future.

And look, many discuss about these tendency and there best match policy have blocked on the IS forum at once. No comments.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: bittersweet on November 25, 2008, 09:46
And look, many discuss about these tendency and there best match policy have blocked on the IS forum at once. No comments.

No comments? There are hundreds of pages of comments, well past the point of anything new being said. It had gotten to the point where people were just copying and pasting their same arguments every five pages or so. Yes, when someone tries to start it all up again, they are directed to the hugest thread.

I do not like this best match either, but I was getting really sick from all the flies swarming around the dead horse.

If you are right that all the stock forums in the world say that istock is going down, then they must be.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: madelaide on November 25, 2008, 09:53
I think the only interesting tendency we night get from this poll is if we separate exclusives and non-exclusives.  Otherwise the results won't say much.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: bittersweet on November 25, 2008, 09:56
I think the only interesting tendency we night get from this poll is if we separate exclusives and non-exclusives.  Otherwise the results won't say much.


Pretty much everyone here says/believes that every non-exclusive is down, so can we assume that the poll results simply mirror this fact? Funny thing is, I didn't think there were 13 exclusives on this forum. Some of them must be in hiding.   8)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: madelaide on November 25, 2008, 11:01
I don't see 83 people active in the forum (82 current votes + me), so it could be the case.  :)

Regards,
Adelaide
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lisafx on November 25, 2008, 11:03
Not sure how this poll works, but I calculated my sales % this morning and istock came in at 29%.  This marks the first time ever that istock has dropped below 33% of my stock income, and a 7% relative drop just since September. 

By contrast, I am having a BME on Fotolia and they are hot on istock's heels at 23%.  Similarly this marks the first time that any other site besides istock has accounted for more than 20% of my royalties.

Considering istock's customer base is still largely American and Fotolia's is mostly European, that statistic is likely to change even more by the end of the month because of the long Thanksgiving weekend.  

It's a shame really, because up until the latest best match debacle I retained a great deal of affection for istock.  (yeah, I know, not enough to go exclusive, but a great fondness nevertheless)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: CofkoCof on November 25, 2008, 11:18
I think the only interesting tendency we night get from this poll is if we separate exclusives and non-exclusives.  Otherwise the results won't say much.


Pretty much everyone here says/believes that every non-exclusive is down, so can we assume that the poll results simply mirror this fact? Funny thing is, I didn't think there were 13 exclusives on this forum. Some of them must be in hiding.   8)
Even if all the 15 voters that voted for a + are non-exclusive it still shows that the sales are going down for most of the people on MSG. It doesn't mean every non-exclusive is down, but most are, read all the threads about it on IS and the polls on this site.

It's interesting to see this poll go the other way than the topic on IS. But when you go to that topic and look at the percentage of exclusive and non-exclusive replys you can see what's happening on IS. Also check who accounted for those negative replys on IS, many are from non-exclusives (some from exclusive illustrators also). I was one of the few non-exclusives that reported increase in royalties (my downloads were down). Won't be that lucky this month.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: null on November 25, 2008, 11:30
Each month it just keep getting better and better in regards of sales.

QED. Exclusive. Great welding shots, by the way.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lobby on November 25, 2008, 12:53
down for me 2

Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Freezingpictures on November 25, 2008, 14:23
I think the only interesting tendency we night get from this poll is if we separate exclusives and non-exclusives.  Otherwise the results won't say much.


Pretty much everyone here says/believes that every non-exclusive is down, so can we assume that the poll results simply mirror this fact? Funny thing is, I didn't think there were 13 exclusives on this forum. Some of them must be in hiding.   8)

I am actually one of the rare non-exclusives  whos earnings went up and I am well on the way to a new BME.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: shank_ali on November 25, 2008, 16:12
Right now sales mostly depend on wherever you are exclusive to IS or not.
Your sales depend mostly on the fact your images have a use to a buyer and  has nothing to do if your exclusive or not.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: MikLav on November 25, 2008, 16:32
flat (low) for the last couple of years :( No significant changes recently (already low enough)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Konstantin Sutyagin on November 25, 2008, 16:51
Right now sales mostly depend on wherever you are exclusive to IS or not.
Your sales depend mostly on the fact your images have a use to a buyer and  has nothing to do if your exclusive or not.

Right. And how do I sell those useful images if they are buried under exclusive images in the search? :)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: vonkara on November 25, 2008, 16:54
Here's my stats... I voted negative :)

(http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1prmudt6tCbFtAQgPydnVvr0l_xz9oWzIBJ5OA0e215Mczu1V0AbxIzl5g1zA8pt4y)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Kngkyle on November 25, 2008, 17:04
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3451/scr1227650562ea0.jpg)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: loop on November 25, 2008, 17:09
Right now sales mostly depend on wherever you are exclusive to IS or not.
Your sales depend mostly on the fact your images have a use to a buyer and  has nothing to do if your exclusive or not.

I don't think so, shank. In my perception, Exclusives have a little push on the best match, and is rigth and is good in that way. I'm exclusive.

On the other hand, even in the monthly report at IS forums I've never felt like reporting great sales or BMEs when other, exclusives or not, are complaining about downfalls. Maybe I'm vrong, but I fear someone with worst luck would resent it. Actually, I've more prone to post if my sales have been down, and I thnk this is a general feeling.

So, I wont't detail my monthly tendence, but I've voted.

Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: vonkara on November 25, 2008, 17:12
.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 25, 2008, 17:58
Hi Loop,

 If you truly want to share your data please do I think there are far more of us here that want to hear the real story rather than just one side. If people don't share then how will we ever know. If no Istock Exclusives or non-exclusives post what is really taking place then we are all wasting our time here and the data is mute. Please share.

Best,
AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Gannet77 on November 25, 2008, 18:18
Here's mine.  I vote positive.  But then I'm exclusive.

(http://www.bullersofbuchan.me.uk/istockphoto/stats.jpg)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: dbvirago on November 25, 2008, 18:22
Posted this in the other thread. Here are 32 months worth.  Spike in month 18 were ELs

(http://darrylbrooks.smugmug.com/photos/423992086_i8bgq-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lagereek on November 25, 2008, 18:27
Hi Lisa!

You know it must be the nature of our images!  Ive noticed they are skyrocketing at other agencies, selling like crazy, could be regular buyers actually??
As our corporate-industrial shots are pushed back here, they are to be found in premiere at the others and therefore selling more then ever.
Anyway, I cant really think of any other explanation. Can you?

all the best  Christian
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lisafx on November 25, 2008, 19:37
Hi Lisa!

You know it must be the nature of our images!  Ive noticed they are skyrocketing at other agencies, selling like crazy, could be regular buyers actually??
As our corporate-industrial shots are pushed back here, they are to be found in premiere at the others and therefore selling more then ever.
Anyway, I cant really think of any other explanation. Can you?

all the best  Christian

I think you are right Christian.  Most likely buyers who are looking for our images have started going where they can actually find them.

Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: loop on November 25, 2008, 19:40
Hi Loop,

 If you truly want to share your data please do I think there are far more of us here that want to hear the real story rather than just one side. If people don't share then how will we ever know. If no Istock Exclusives or non-exclusives post what is really taking place then we are all wasting our time here and the data is mute. Please share.

Best,
AVAVA

Well, I'm up, not very much but  probably getting BME for money and dl's this month, which is not strange for November. Not a great increase in downloads comparing to November 2007, but yes on money, due to EL's and higher prices. And, although I've been uploading, this year, my folder has been 25% dilluted in the istock collection, due to the exponential increase in new photographers and new files.
RPI going always up since first day.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 25, 2008, 20:11
Loop,

 Thanks for  all that stuff helps me. As long as numbers keep going up I figure it ain't broke. I wouldn't think of fixing anything if I was you.

Best,
AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: null on November 25, 2008, 20:42
I'm not exclusive:

(http://cjoint.com/data/lAcJu1c6P7_issales.jpg)

1 - IStk is at position #4, under BigStock.
2 - Totally different pictures sell than on other sites. This is probably due to search engine differences.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: null on November 25, 2008, 20:45
([url]http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3451/scr1227650562ea0.jpg[/url])
Wow Kngkyle. It's like a plane crash :)


That doesn't look like a plane crash, but more like a nice soft landing with a touch and go at the end.  ::)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Lizard on November 25, 2008, 22:18
I feel I will own someone money in about 2-3 months  ;D

If exclusivity doesn't have nothing with this , then it must be that my images are 4 times less usefully for buyers than at this time
last year , and all the images approved from then must have no use at all. I'm not saying that , but the numbers are.

(http://i35.tinypic.com/14o2lmx.jpg)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on November 25, 2008, 22:29
the data is mute.


Moot.  Or possibly Moo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLwYpSCrlHU
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 25, 2008, 23:21
 Hey SJ,
 
 Thanks for catching that. Actually it could be mute as if it were voiceless. You have to forgive my spelling, I am dyslexic and if it weren't for spell check you wouldn't be able to read a thing I write.

Best,
AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: bcnewell on November 26, 2008, 00:05
([url]http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3451/scr1227650562ea0.jpg[/url])


Mine look just like this.  Istock has been tanking since April.  Fotolia's been going crazy all of a sudden.  W/o any new uploads my sales have risen about 20% a month!
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: jeancliclac on November 26, 2008, 00:38
Non exclusive and down......actually I will sell about 180 file this month: the same number as I did after 2 months at IS in August.......2005.
Sadly I like IS..I can understand there is a commercial strategy behind this and I accept it, but..I think it would be fair that IS makes it clear what is their policy with non exclusives....
Jean
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: jeancliclac on November 26, 2008, 00:44
Right now sales mostly depend on wherever you are exclusive to IS or not.
Your sales depend mostly on the fact your images have a use to a buyer and  has nothing to do if your exclusive or not.


Sorry but what is your basis to say that...?
Statistics on exclusive sales shows increase and staristics on non exclusive show decrease. Obviously exclusivity is a parameter that has an influence......
Jean
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Konstantin Sutyagin on November 26, 2008, 02:30
..I think it would be fair that IS makes it clear what is their policy with non exclusives....
Jean

It is pretty clear when we look at the search results.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: jeancliclac on November 26, 2008, 03:41
..I think it would be fair that IS makes it clear what is their policy with non exclusives....
Jean

It is pretty clear when we look at the search results.
Yes it is with today's best match, this may change or not.
The best match effect today enlarges the gap between exclusivity and non exclusivity. In such a way that the two groups are starting to be unfriendly with each other. Some of my CN that are exclusives are not reacting anymore to contacts or have even expressed the wish not to be in my CN despite they have been initialy taking the initaitive to invite me. On the other side, some non exclusives are getting a bit agressive with exclusive. I regret the time where those groups were just part of the same community.
A clear information on the policy would make things easier for all, clearify what should be our expectations and avoid this frustration many of us non exclusive have for the time......
jean
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lagereek on November 26, 2008, 06:44
Hi Lisa!

You know it must be the nature of our images!  Ive noticed they are skyrocketing at other agencies, selling like crazy, could be regular buyers actually??
As our corporate-industrial shots are pushed back here, they are to be found in premiere at the others and therefore selling more then ever.
Anyway, I cant really think of any other explanation. Can you?

all the best  Christian


Yes, its almost uncanny.  Almost on the date of last best match change here, I noticed that many of my own files and yours ( saw them ) were moved to the actual first two pages in some of the other agencies.
If that wasnt enough, ELs are increasing a lot!
Well Lisa weve had luck! in the unlucky, if you know what I mean.

best.  Christian

I think you are right Christian.  Most likely buyers who are looking for our images have started going where they can actually find them.


Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: hofhoek on November 26, 2008, 08:33
I don't know how to copy my stats and paste them here but I started in march 2007. My downloads this month are the same as in september 2007 (my worst month at IS besides the first two months) I must have uploaded about 500 images since september 2007.  So, not exclusive and going down, down, down.
SS is not doing too swell this month either BTW...
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: CofkoCof on November 26, 2008, 08:47
Interesting topic on IS:
http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=80320&page=1

It surprises me it didn't get locked already.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: borg on November 26, 2008, 10:53
I have to praise myself...

Again today, I sold two similar images at once, both for L size and 2,40 $.

Isn't EL but I feel good!

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup.php?id=6962825
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup.php?id=6962971
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 26, 2008, 11:13
Good For you Borg,

 You have to bask in the sunlight of your accomplishments. Enjoy your day and spoil yourself with something.

Best,
AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: hali on November 26, 2008, 12:57
Hey SJ,
 
 Thanks for catching that. Actually it could be mute as if it were voiceless. You have to forgive my spelling, I am dyslexic and if it weren't for spell check you wouldn't be able to read a thing I write.

Best,
AVAVA

sj and avava, both right. moot because it's pointless; mute because IS ain't  hEARing nothing.  ;D
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: RT on November 26, 2008, 13:05
In such a way that the two groups are starting to be unfriendly with each other. Some of my CN that are exclusives are not reacting anymore to contacts or have even expressed the wish not to be in my CN despite they have been initialy taking the initaitive to invite me. On the other side, some non exclusives are getting a bit agressive with exclusive.

I think money brings out the bad side in everyone, everytime iS change the best match it means one side or the other will be worse off as a result,  and the result of that is blaming each other.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Tim Markley on November 26, 2008, 13:39
As a small timer, Istock has always been good for me but lately it has been a struggle with slow sales. I am too small to consider going exclusive so I wil hang in there.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: shank_ali on November 26, 2008, 13:54
Right now sales mostly depend on wherever you are exclusive to IS or not.
Your sales depend mostly on the fact your images have a use to a buyer and  has nothing to do if your exclusive or not.

Right. And how do I sell those useful images if they are buried under exclusive images in the search? :)
You keyword them correctly and perhaps ask another kind contributor to add them to a particular lightbox they manage.You can link a few images together..Then forget about it and go create some more magic...
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: nataq on November 26, 2008, 14:39
Right now sales mostly depend on wherever you are exclusive to IS or not.

Your sales depend mostly on the fact your images have a use to a buyer and  has nothing to do if your exclusive or not.


Right. And how do I sell those useful images if they are buried under exclusive images in the search? :)

You keyword them correctly and perhaps ask another kind contributor to add them to a particular lightbox they manage.You can link a few images together..Then forget about it and go create some more magic...


Maaan am I glad to be able to talk to an expert! You sure can explain this graph - I started in feb 2007. 5 months ago I started preparing to get exclusive by dec 13th (the estimate of getting diamond back then) so in pretty much two weeks. Now Iīm thinking about an uploadstop. What made my images not useful to the buyer anymore?

(http://www.amriphoto.com/iStock/chartNov08.jpg)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: nataq on November 26, 2008, 14:44
graph doesnīt show - perhaps now:
(http://www.amriphoto.com/istock/chartNov08.jpg)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: nataq on November 26, 2008, 14:52
and to give you an even better idea of whatīs happening: in April 2007 I didnīt even have 100 images online. By now I have 1.133 images online!!!
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 26, 2008, 16:34
Once you have created a solid image that is needed by buyers then sales are based all about image placement on a site. Has been as long as I can remember. That table can turn over night, I have seen it many times. Diversify.

AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lisafx on November 26, 2008, 16:37
Once you have created a solid image that is needed by buyers then sales are based all about image placement on a site. Has been as long as I can remember. That table can turn over night, I have seen it many times. Diversify.

Truer words were never spoken (typed).  This should be embroidered on a doily above my work station. :)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: shank_ali on November 26, 2008, 17:51
Once you have created a solid image that is needed by buyers then sales are based all about image placement on a site. Has been as long as I can remember. That table can turn over night, I have seen it many times. Diversify.

AVAVA
Your image is placed..............in the library like the other  4 million files.If the buyers keywords match yours you might get a sale.With so many new files getting added daily and the contributor base growing you cannot realistically base todays sales on past performances of anyone file our overall totals on previous BME/BDE.
best match is not the only way a buyer finds your file !
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Kngkyle on November 26, 2008, 18:02
best match is not the only way a buyer finds your file !

I'd say searching by best match accounts for 99.5% of sales, if not more.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lagereek on November 26, 2008, 18:23
Im looking right now at a pathetic Forum thread going on at IS where as usual all Exclusives are joining up at the nons, this and that, blaha, blahey etc, etc, etc, and now and then, up pops a Admin guy trying to calm things down. Same old codswhollop.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: dbvirago on November 26, 2008, 18:33
Once you have created a solid image that is needed by buyers then sales are based all about image placement on a site. Has been as long as I can remember. That table can turn over night, I have seen it many times. Diversify.

AVAVA
Your image is placed..............in the library like the other  4 million files.If the buyers keywords match yours you might get a sale.With so many new files getting added daily and the contributor base growing you cannot realistically base todays sales on past performances of anyone file our overall totals on previous BME/BDE.
best match is not the only way a buyer finds your file !

No, but I can base it on performance on other sites. The top sites are all growing at a similar rate. My images are being uploaded and accepted at a similar rate. I understand with all the new competition, I am having to do more work to stay even as is the case on DT, FT, BigStock, and SS. At IS, sales have dropped like a rock ytd. The only absolutely known wildcard is the upload limits where we are at a huge disadvantage to the exclusives. I don't have the option to increase production.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on November 26, 2008, 19:08
Im looking right now at a pathetic Forum thread going on at IS where as usual all Exclusives are joining up at the nons, this and that, blaha, blahey etc, etc, etc, and now and then, up pops a Admin guy trying to calm things down. Same old codswhollop.


All I see is independents griping they aren't making as much as they'd like, and despite posts from exclusives and independents that sales are pretty up and down equally, blame it on some conspiracy theory that iStock is out to get them.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 26, 2008, 19:18
 Could you try that again Shank,

I didn't follow a word of it. I was saying that your image placement and what page it goes on in a search engine affects your sales drastically. Getty has their Holly owned content staggered near the top of their search engines because they are very aware of image placement affecting sales revenue. Istock also stacks their exclusives in better placements on the first pages where a buyer is most likely to see it ( don't anyone attack I am not jealous just pointing out a fact ). When a large group of buyers where asked how far they search the average was 2.5 pages deep in a collection. Image placement is a huge factor on sales. It has been and still is.

Best,
AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: CofkoCof on November 26, 2008, 19:26
All I see is independents griping they aren't making as much as they'd like, and despite posts from exclusives and independents that sales are pretty up and down equally, blame it on some conspiracy theory that iStock is out to get them.
Equally? Are we looking at the same thread? Could you please supply me with all the indepenents that report their sales up and I'll supply you with at least twice the ammount of independants with their sales down. It's not that hard to count. The poll in this topic can even do it for you.

Even Michael Jay reported the new best match is (most likely) in favour of exclusives:
Quote
I don't say this is a general trend, and I'd agree the last best match changes most likely favoured exclusives a bit more than non-exclusives but it also favoured older images over newer ones (compared to the sort order before) and is giving some very strange and inconclusives results across the board.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Tuilay on November 26, 2008, 20:02
Im looking right now at a pathetic Forum thread going on at IS where as usual all Exclusives are joining up at the nons, this and that, blaha, blahey etc, etc, etc, and now and then, up pops a Admin guy trying to calm things down. Same old codswhollop.


All I see is independents griping they aren't making as much as they'd like, and despite posts from exclusives and independents that sales are pretty up and down equally, blame it on some conspiracy theory that iStock is out to get them.

I just went in to the forum to see where the blood letting is,
ironically, the main protagonist of this "conspiracy" you say, has a cynic named sjlocke.
maybe i read the wrong thread, but from what i could read , the thread by "CapturedNuance"
you (sjlocke) was mentioning persistently to "drive away competition "
rather than help the situation.

which sjlocke are you, btw? two faced or what  ??? ???
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 26, 2008, 20:51
OH Tuilay,

Thems fightin words. Yu better step up SJ and flex those muscles before this goes to far. ;D

Fireworks,,
AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Tuilay on November 26, 2008, 21:11
OH Tuilay,

Thems fightin words. Yu better step up SJ and flex those muscles before this goes to far. ;D

Fireworks,,
AVAVA

i'm not on IStock forum here, so i'm aiming to knock his teeth out for being such an arrogant sod  8)
AND NEITHER AM I CapturedNuance, so I am going to put this sob in his place, once and for all. ban me if it takes or not.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 26, 2008, 21:26
Hi Tuilay,

 Until he replies I would go have a good stiff drink and let it go tonight. But let me know when the prize fight is scheduled I want a front row seat. ;D

AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: hali on November 26, 2008, 21:54
OH Tuilay,

Thems fightin words. Yu better step up SJ and flex those muscles before this goes to far. ;D

Fireworks,,
AVAVA


i'm not on IStock forum here, so i'm aiming to knock his teeth out for being such an arrogant sod  8)
AND NEITHER AM I CapturedNuance, so I am going to put this sob in his place, once and for all. ban me if it takes or not.
(http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:yaFSKIOezFHVRM:http://images.comicbookresources.com/cons/baltimore2007/marvel/HulkPromoArt.jpg)

super  hero ! :o
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on November 26, 2008, 22:10
I just went in to the forum to see where the blood letting is,
ironically, the main protagonist of this "conspiracy" you say, has a cynic named sjlocke.
maybe i read the wrong thread, but from what i could read , the thread by "CapturedNuance"
you (sjlocke) was mentioning persistently to "drive away competition "
rather than help the situation.

What ?  I was merely pointing out that "loyalty" was not what the OP was describing, but, as they offered "fondness" for iStock. 

"Help the situation" - What situation?  There is no conspiracy I can see to drive anyone from the site.  A best match tweak does not equal a conspiracy.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Tuilay on November 26, 2008, 22:23
boo
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 26, 2008, 22:25
 Will someone please post the Istock forum Post link in question I have some spare reading time. A little in the dark as to what is going on. Posting the link would help. Maybe even a bit of background would help to understand the situation more clearly. Anyone want to fill in the gaps.

Thx,
AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Tuilay on November 26, 2008, 22:31
Will someone please post the Istock forum Post link in question I have some spare reading time. A little in the dark as to what is going on. Posting the link would help. Maybe even a bit of background would help to understand the situation more clearly. Anyone want to fill in the gaps.

Thx,
AVAVA
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqaqpjcZP-U[/youtube]
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 26, 2008, 22:37
Thanks tuilay,

 That helped clear things up a great deal.

AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: vonkara on November 26, 2008, 22:56
The youtube video feature opened a whole new world of opportunity here on MSG
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: hali on November 26, 2008, 23:00
holy smoke, this makes my day ! i'm going to bed smiling now...
ohaiyo gozamatsu, Tuilay.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: hali on November 26, 2008, 23:02
The youtube video feature opened a whole new world of opportunity here on MSG

ya, and that's no chicken either , vonkara  ;D ;D ;D :D :D
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: crazychristina on November 26, 2008, 23:04
Here's the discussion (http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=80320&page=1) in question
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 26, 2008, 23:20
Thanks Aviril,

 It is big so I jus scimmed for now but I did love what LisaFX wrote. " Some of us can Bitch and Moan and Produce  " I love it. You go girlfriend.

Best,
AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lagereek on November 27, 2008, 03:52
Ive seen this many, many times over the years and we have to resume to the facts that: IS is no longer the IS that Bruce once ruled. IS is Getty!  and Getty is not Getty anymore its an Investment called Hellman-Friedman: a far, far cry from our creative world and to Hellman-Friedman  the once so glamorous Getty/IS is just another puppet investment, no more no less. Hence, quality and creative know-how has begun its downhill race. This is so typical after a " takeover" in this business. Weve seen it many times before.

Theres no remedy to this! think about it? all of us here on the forum is but a fraction of people affected, all the rest will see the same damage and consequently the credibillity is blown away. Once thats gone its just a matter of time.
Other agencies are cashing in on this. Friend of mine_ Diamond-non-exclusive at IS has just been offerd a great deal if placing all his images with a particular agency and IMHO, he would be a fool not to go for it.
See, this is what its all about, you get your 8-10 good years, same as in any business and then its time to move over, only some can handle it better then others.
I personally think, Getty/IS, is more then aware of all this.
The Getty/IS  problems goes far, far beyond just some little chicken fight between Excl and nons.
Any consolation? some high ranking people within the Getty are not too happy either.

Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: thesentinel on November 27, 2008, 05:03
Just throwing a few discussion points in here, mainly at Christian

If the 20/80 rule applies, it's quite often a very good guide, and 80% percent of the sales at istock come from 20% percent of the suppliers and moves are made to enhance the position of that 20% the noise generated by the the dis-benefitted 80% may seem overwhelming but really of little consequence.

If, as Christian states, his and Lisas images where given greater visibility at other sites as a direct result of being demoted at istock are those other sites just as guilty of intervention, and what of their other members who must have been demoted in order to promote them? What of their credibility?

Are not most if not all of these sites the investment instruments of others? In the current climate would the investors not be either looking for a better return or to withdraw their capital?

I'm sure the next few months will see many changes, for example if agencies feel that prices cannot rise much more in the current financial situation and their investors need their returns then decreased commissions may be on the horizon, in fact at Alamy and in a convoluted way at Fotolia they are already here.

For all the name calling and playground antics here it's big business we're engaged in and the climate has changed, probably for the long term.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: abimages on November 27, 2008, 05:17
Im looking right now at a pathetic Forum thread going on at IS where as usual all Exclusives are joining up at the nons, this and that, blaha, blahey etc, etc, etc, and now and then, up pops a Admin guy trying to calm things down. Same old codswhollop.


All I see is independents griping they aren't making as much as they'd like, and despite posts from exclusives and independents that sales are pretty up and down equally, blame it on some conspiracy theory that iStock is out to get them.

Sean, that may be the general feel you get from the thread. But it is not the view of ALL independants who have posted.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lagereek on November 27, 2008, 05:37
thesentinel!

Valid points!  However I never said as a direct result, I mearly pointed out the incredible coincidences, of down there and skyrocketting elsewhere on, yes, within pretty much the same week?
Fair enough, both I and Lisa are producing images which are hard to get hold of and not run-of-the-mill. This will obviously help.
Demoted?? in a way but in another, no. Im just about 25-30% down, so what? its no big deal after what Ive heard, the majority are hit much worse, BUT! and you have to admit? pretty strange isnt it? that same month, all three of my other agencies are increasing, even without overestimating around 50%

but, you might be right, might be coincideance.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on November 27, 2008, 08:02
Im looking right now at a pathetic Forum thread going on at IS where as usual all Exclusives are joining up at the nons, this and that, blaha, blahey etc, etc, etc, and now and then, up pops a Admin guy trying to calm things down. Same old codswhollop.


All I see is independents griping they aren't making as much as they'd like, and despite posts from exclusives and independents that sales are pretty up and down equally, blame it on some conspiracy theory that iStock is out to get them.

Sean, that may be the general feel you get from the thread. But it is not the view of ALL independants who have posted.

Sorry for generalizing.  happy Thanksgiving!
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Tuilay on November 27, 2008, 09:29
the sentinel, good point, albeit to mention Alamy in the same breath as Istock , buf !
now that's like getting Bush to sit with Bin Laden.
we're talking about a site that listens and value their contributors,
and another who simply say , "if you don't like it, stick it".

lagereek , touche too, the door istock shows you opens and closes for both parties.
like any other corporate world, if you tell your associates to leave if they don't like it,
soon the world will learn of that attitude, and soon, even the most faithful friend will see a knife coming from even a once faithful friend:
as Caesar fallen at a forum cried out, "et tu , Brutus ? (you too, Brutus?)"
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: hali on November 27, 2008, 09:57
if agencies feel that prices cannot rise much more in the current financial situation and their investors need their returns then decreased commissions may be on the horizon, in fact at Alamy and in a convoluted way at Fotolia they are already here.

For all the name calling and playground antics here it's big business we're engaged in and the climate has changed, probably for the long term.

First, I hate to agree with Tuilay's harsh attitude in pushing her/his point, but it is true, business is business - but a good business can ask for more money
and get it if it takes care of the people who works for them.
Alamy just wrote us to inform us about the increase and the smaller share for contributors. I am sure no one will object to it. It's the market reality.
The last thing we want is another PhotoShelter. A good company go defunct.

Istock? well, that is a different animal. (no pun intended). ;)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 27, 2008, 13:24

 Wholly owned content, it was built for Microstock. Look into the crystal ball.

 AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lagereek on November 27, 2008, 13:29
Your right there Jonathan!

On the other hand when one really scrutenize the contents of micro, jeez! man, 80% would never ever see daylight inside the Trad-agencies.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: shank_ali on November 27, 2008, 14:26
Istockphoto changes the best match  search pattern for the good of the customers.It has worked well  for the company for many years and will continue to do so.
I am new to this forum and enjoy the debate and seeing so many artists contributing to a few different sites.
My photos are only available to download from istock.I am happy with that personnel choice i made.
Would i make more money if i uploaded my 400 files to several different sites.
No one really knows..The perks of being exclusive on istock are well known.If the latest best match switch favours exclusive contributors then that's fine by me.The best match will change again it might favour XL images again,it might favour new uploads,it might favour vectors/illustrations.
If you showcase your work on alot of different microstock sites for more money then that seems a wise and prudent thing to do but please don't ask istockphoto to treat you the same as me and a few more exclusive contributors.Thanks.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on November 27, 2008, 14:59

 Wholly owned content, it was built for Microstock. Look into the crystal ball.

 AVAVA

I doubt it.  Micro was built on having a big collection from a crowd of contributors.  You can't get that from a couple of pros shooting the same thing as each other.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: crazychristina on November 27, 2008, 15:11
I'm not big on business models, but how about this? Individual wholly owned portfolios, with buyers using a broker via web services. Then brokers would be offering their services competitively, and content producers more in control of their content. Wouldn't be just a 'couple of pros'. And many buyers buy from individual ports anyway. So, a shift from you maker contributes to big agency to broker distrubutes your content.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 27, 2008, 15:38
 Hi SJ,

 What made you think I was talking about a couple of pros I never said that or even implied it. I must say SJ you do need to read the posts more clearly. I am not talking about a couple of pros. I am talking about hundreds if not thousands of people that would be happy to sell their rights for the right price. Getty did it with hundreds of different photographers why do you not think they wouldn't do it in Micro. The quality was one part that hurt them when they did it in Macro but I bet they have learned a lot since then. Really good shooters are selling the rights to their images at this moment for as little as $60 a piece to Getty's Macro RF and they are pushing it to the top of the search, they have been for a couple years now.
 Just look at it from a profit perspective. If Istock is looking at making their biggest profit they are giving away half the farm to you right now as an exclusive. You believe they are going to keep that policy when they can go out and buy content for a smidgen of the money they pay you. Or for that matter they might move the people that only get 20% as non-exclusives right to the top since Getty makes a bigger piece off each sale. This is standard operations for Getty and most large corporations they know how to make their biggest profits. Also the only thing that is certain in life is change, that and death.
 Please if you can explain from a business stand point why it makes more sense for Getty to give you more of each sale then maybe their own content or the next wave of Exclusives that agree to a smaller percentage than you already have I would love to hear your explanation. I have also seen them take away percentages, they dropped them for exclusives in RM collections a long time ago. So much is possible that is why it is best to cover your own ass instead of expecting someone else to do it for you.
 Don't feel threatened there SJ I am sure you will always be one of the tip top shooters out there. Now try and get some turkey in you, it will help you sleep better. Full of tryptophan you know. ( Did I spell that right, check that for me will you please ).

All my best,
AVAVA
 
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on November 27, 2008, 15:51
Eh, I'm tired of the latest wave of exclusive/independent yapping.  Get back to me later...
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 27, 2008, 16:02
 Hey SJ,

 No, why don't you get back to me latter when you have a free moment. I already got back to you on your comment. No rush just looking for your opinion on this since you pointed out you felt this would not happen. If you need time to gather your thoughts you take as much time as you need I'll be around.

Best,
AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: crazychristina on November 27, 2008, 16:05
This whole deal will be a non-issue in a couple of years when all content is computer generated. Exclusive? Independent? Irrelevant.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 27, 2008, 16:18
Hi Avril,

 I have spoken to some people in the CGI world lately because of my own personal interest. From what everyone of them tell me lifestyle photography or motion ( anything with people in it ) will not be replaced for several years because it will still be much cheeper and faster to do it old school with real people than the time and cost it will take to do it in computer. I am told the first place we will see it is from major motion picture studios that can offset the cost with the high returns they make from a top films revenue. Eventually it will probably hit this market but I think we have more than two years left.

Best,
AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: crazychristina on November 27, 2008, 16:27
OK, maybe five!! Motion is hard, I know, but for still images... One area that I think will be important is parametric modelling programs. Dial in characteristics with a few sliders and presto. I'm most familiar with the open source version, MakeHuman, but there are commercial apps out there, no doubt more sophisticated. It won't be long before you can dial up a business team, do the office with arch viz, pose the figures, adjust lighting to meet current lighting styles, etc etc. Once the assets are developed they can be reused. Some of the top photographers on microstock have been using the same models for years.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 27, 2008, 16:40
 Five works much better for me :) Thanks for that bit of relief. I would love to pick your brain about CGI. I am not going into it as I am slowing down but I find it fascinating.

AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lagereek on November 27, 2008, 17:03
Behind our backs while we are squibbling, there is another and IMO quite serious threat to all of us, may it be RM, RF or Micro.
Agencies are buying up entire Portfolios!  Yes this has been going on for ages, I know that, nothing new but this is something very differant. Corporate, Studio and people photographers are approached and offerd an all out paycheque for a certain amount of shots. The money is good enough to surrender all copyrights and data, leaving the buyer to pretty much do what they like with the shots and ofcourse, future sales are 100% revenue.
To what Jonathan just said, yes large Corporations will always find new ways to improve their own profits and sure, if Getty tomorrow would find a way to keep all revenue thay would ofcourse blow out the suppliers, just like that. Thats business.
Micro? well its had what some 7 or 8 years now, the idea is getting slightly old and worn, so what can we expect? another 2 or perhaps 3 years more and then some other superior idea will come along, as always does, and brush it aside. For the majority of todays micro-shooters there wont be any room in a new strategy.
Im a firm believer there are only two future ways here: either the fleemarket syndrome where thers not enough money for anybody or the reverse: where buyers are paying something in between RF and Micro, perhaps in the region of RR with rights. i.e. back to "quality"
One thing is for sure, the Micro as we know it today, wont last much longer, they will kill off each other and the remaining will fall on their own success.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: loop on November 27, 2008, 17:18
In all these years, I've heard so many disastrous prophecies for microstock (one of them, but not the only one, that Gety had bougth IS just to close it), without any of them coming to reality that I tend to take your projections of future with a grain of salt. I any case, never let that what may (or not) happen in the future spoil your brigth present. If some disaster occurs, we'll worry when it happens, and many of us will find new ways to stay afloat.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lagereek on November 27, 2008, 17:46
Loop!

Its not a projection! common sense. Nothing lasts forever, does it?  10 years ago, who had heard of Micro? what do you think? that all business models and blueprints will stay the same for the next 10 years? just so that we can sit tight and rake in Micro money?
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: loop on November 27, 2008, 17:59
Yes, ten years ago nobody have hear of micro. But, curiously enough, these years I never read any prophecy saying "New agencies will come selling pics at 10 c and will dent on RF and MR stock". I read other prophecies about the future of stock that never went to reality. Future is unknown. Had I acted according with prophecies I've read from the wake of microstock (or from the beggining of my involvment in microstock) rigth now I woul have lost a lot of money and opportunities.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: crazychristina on November 27, 2008, 18:16
Check out this (http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/locations-and-travel/air-travel/4797777-departure-lounge.php?id=4797777) and this (http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/people/408967-business-meeting.php?id=408967) and the rest of Marks portfolio. He's istock's 3D guru. Not many people there - yet.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: loop on November 27, 2008, 18:37
Great 3D work by an exclusive istocker, but I don't understand how is that related with what we were talking, if you are talking to me. 3D substiuing photography? Please, come on. 3D has its place, as vectors, flash, photography, etc have theirs.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: vonkara on November 27, 2008, 21:44
Funny to see the results combined to the Istock result

+ IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

- IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

= IIIIIIIIIIIIII
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: vonkara on November 27, 2008, 21:46
This was the Istock results from the IS forum. (First page, first post)

+ IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

- IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

= IIIIIII





Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Konstantin Sutyagin on November 28, 2008, 02:01
Check out this ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/locations-and-travel/air-travel/4797777-departure-lounge.php?id=4797777[/url]) and this ([url]http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/people/408967-business-meeting.php?id=408967[/url]) and the rest of Marks portfolio. He's istock's 3D guru. Not many people there - yet.


Plain images done with great understanding of what sells. It is not the 3D medium that makes them popular.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: vonkara on November 28, 2008, 02:39
Great 3D work by an exclusive istocker, but I don't understand how is that related with what we were talking, if you are talking to me. 3D substiuing photography? Please, come on. 3D has its place, as vectors, flash, photography, etc have theirs.
3D make cleaner and all in focus images. It give jpg images at 50mpx dimension if you really want it and then the designers doesn't need more skills than the one they already have to edit the file. If I was able to make high quality ones I would only do 3D. No more nasty dust everywhere
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lisafx on November 29, 2008, 15:38
It is big so I jus scimmed for now but I did love what LisaFX wrote. " Some of us can Bitch and Moan and Produce  " I love it. You go girlfriend.


If my photography career ever starts to interfere with my ability to bitch and moan, it's time to hang up the camera ;)
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: crazychristina on November 29, 2008, 16:07
Interesting comment from Lobo about this whole issue, before he locked the thread on istock.

Yep, we are done here folks. Clearly there are differing opinions on what Exclusivity/Non-exclusivity means to a contributor bottom line. For all the perks we provide our Exclusives we appreciate that some would feel we are trying to push out non-exclusives. The reality is we are trying to provide more incentive to the people on the fence.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: epantha on November 29, 2008, 17:34
Quote
Yep, we are done here folks. Clearly there are differing opinions on what Exclusivity/Non-exclusivity means to a contributor bottom line. For all the perks we provide our Exclusives we appreciate that some would feel we are trying to push out non-exclusives. The reality is we are trying to provide more incentive to the people on the fence.

How does decimating a person's search position and sales help one decide to go exclusive if you are on the fence? ???

Maybe if IS was the only site you were uploading to, you would go exclusive out of sheer desperation but if you upload to other sites and can compare your progress, you can clearly see the mind games going on there. Personally, I am extremely disappointed in the tactics being used by IS. Waaaaay to extreme to the point where I don't trust them anymore.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: AVAVA on November 29, 2008, 17:54
Hi there Ave,

 The Exclusivity model was changed by Istock. It is a brand new model that restricts you doing other work ( entirely different work ) for any other RF company unless affiliated with Istock. That is the big difference that Istock is implementing and it is a very limiting contract compared to Macro exclusive contracts and how the business has been run for years. Their model is far more limiting to their excusives than stock ever used to be, or even other Micro exclusives for that matter.

AVAVA
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Konstantin Sutyagin on November 29, 2008, 23:40
Interesting comment from Lobo about this whole issue, before he locked the thread on istock.

Yep, we are done here folks. Clearly there are differing opinions on what Exclusivity/Non-exclusivity means to a contributor bottom line. For all the perks we provide our Exclusives we appreciate that some would feel we are trying to push out non-exclusives. The reality is we are trying to provide more incentive to the people on the fence.

Ironically, this latest best match change does quite the opposite. Why in the world I would think of being exclusive to an agency that accounts for about 10% of my microstock income? On the other hand the better IS does for non-exclusives the more people would consider going exclusive.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: shank_ali on November 30, 2008, 01:38
I have not seen many exclusive contributors giving up their crown and trying to submit to a few more sites to earn extra income.
Why do you think that is.Has istock brainwashed the exclusives or indeed looked after us with better exposure of our portfolio's,ability to upload more work for inspection and pays more than other stock agencies for a sale.
You will never know how much money you will earn only being exclusive on istockphoto until your exclusive and neither will an exclusive ever know how much money is available to earn uploading to alot of different stock agencies.
Each artist decides where his/her work shall goes on sale and must live with the consequences  :-\
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: nataq on November 30, 2008, 01:57
Interesting comment from Lobo about this whole issue, before he locked the thread on istock.

Yep, we are done here folks. Clearly there are differing opinions on what Exclusivity/Non-exclusivity means to a contributor bottom line. For all the perks we provide our Exclusives we appreciate that some would feel we are trying to push out non-exclusives. The reality is we are trying to provide more incentive to the people on the fence.

Ironically, this latest best match change does quite the opposite. Why in the world I would think of being exclusive to an agency that accounts for about 10% of my microstock income? On the other hand the better IS does for non-exclusives the more people would consider going exclusive.

Very well said!
BTW: Istock  has dropped to Nr. 3 in the stats to the right for the first time since I am here. Another month like that and they will be Nr.4. Iīm not at all happy about that and it might not be the most relevant statistic but perhaps they might want to have a look at it.

Many people are not only contributors but also designers - like me. As a designer I have collegues I recommend sites to and if a site doesnīt treat me well, I wonīt recommend it.
Anyway - in the longrun customers AND contributors ("staff") of a company in the civilised world have to be satisfied otherwise it wonīt work in the longrun.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lagereek on December 01, 2008, 07:38
Right now on the IS  Forum theres a thread about the November stats!  Well I knew it was bad but not that bad!
In a matter of no time at all, its gone from a "leader" to a very, very depressing site. All threads are just full of nothing really.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: bittersweet on December 01, 2008, 09:07
Right now on the IS  Forum theres a thread about the November stats!  Well I knew it was bad but not that bad!
In a matter of no time at all, its gone from a "leader" to a very, very depressing site. All threads are just full of nothing really.

I was surprised to see how many exclusives are reporting that their numbers are way down as well. I hang around here so much that I almost expected to see that clear-cut division that is often reported.

My November was slightly up (about 8%) from October, but October was way way up for me (+41%DL/+53%$$). With all the extra non-business days, I'm happy with that. It will be interesting to see how December shapes up.

One thing I do know is that I really hope they do NOT implement their yearly price increase! I think that would be suicide in this financial environment.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: thesentinel on December 01, 2008, 09:30

One thing I do know is that I really hope they do NOT implement their yearly price increase! I think that would be suicide in this financial environment.

Effectively UK buyers at all USD priced stock agencies have already had an approximately  25% increase due to the currency fluctuations.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lagereek on December 01, 2008, 12:48
I wasnt too surprised to see Exclusives way down as well, I know quite a few and theyre not happy.
I recon some of them will give up their exclusivity pretty soon.
I dont know? buyers seems to abandon ship, or what?  crying shame really.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lisafx on December 01, 2008, 13:10

BTW: Istock  has dropped to Nr. 3 in the stats to the right for the first time since I am here. Another month like that and they will be Nr.4. Iīm not at all happy about that and it might not be the most relevant statistic but perhaps they might want to have a look at it.

Boy, those stats say it all!  Looks like istock has fallen to number 4 and they are the ONLY site listed that has seen a downturn in sales.  Yikes!
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lisafx on December 01, 2008, 13:13
Right now on the IS  Forum theres a thread about the November stats!  Well I knew it was bad but not that bad!
In a matter of no time at all, its gone from a "leader" to a very, very depressing site. All threads are just full of nothing really.

BTW, Christian, did you check out how many people reporting BME's or great sales also mentioned they haven't uploaded anything new in months? 

For the life of me I can't understand a best match that rewards people who are no longer uploading and penalizes those working hard to add fresh imagery to the collection. 
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: pancaketom on December 01, 2008, 13:44
Now that the November results are in, I was indeed down from Oct over 50% (Oct was a BME despite the poor last week though). My November numbers were lower than my 3rd full month on IS with less than 10% of the total files up. (it did drop a lot after that 3rd month though with the first of many painful best match changes for me).
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: cdwheatley on December 01, 2008, 13:52
Right now on the IS  Forum theres a thread about the November stats!  Well I knew it was bad but not that bad!
In a matter of no time at all, its gone from a "leader" to a very, very depressing site. All threads are just full of nothing really.

BTW, Christian, did you check out how many people reporting BME's or great sales also mentioned they haven't uploaded anything new in months? 

For the life of me I can't understand a best match that rewards people who are no longer uploading and penalizes those working hard to add fresh imagery to the collection. 

This is what worries my the most. If new non-exclusive images are not aloud to move forward its just a slow death. It looks like the more new images sell the farther they drop, counterproductive.

The only bright spot is the ability to link though lightboxes on image and profile page.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: crazychristina on December 01, 2008, 14:23
istock has clearly attempted to address the issue of positive feedback loops that occur so much in microstock - an image that sells a couple of times thereby achieves good placement in search and therefor continues to sell - it takes off. However, this is pretty much a chance phenomenon (given that there are many good images on the site). So yes, istock is preventing this from happening by penalizing images that do take off. Like loudspeaker wail on a soundstage - put your hand over the mic to cut . The result SHOULD be that sales are spread more evenly throughout the collection, as other images improve in search placement, and in the long run quality is more likely to count than luck.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lisafx on December 01, 2008, 14:39
istock has clearly attempted to address the issue of positive feedback loops that occur so much in microstock - an image that sells a couple of times thereby achieves good placement in search and therefor continues to sell - it takes off. However, this is pretty much a chance phenomenon (given that there are many good images on the site). So yes, istock is preventing this from happening by penalizing images that do take off. Like loudspeaker wail on a soundstage - put your hand over the mic to cut . The result SHOULD be that sales are spread more evenly throughout the collection, as other images improve in search placement, and in the long run quality is more likely to count than luck.

Sorry Averil, although I respect your opinion, to me this just doesn't make sense.  Penalizing popular images will not make quality count more than luck.  Just the opposite IMHO. 

I don't agree that sales should necessarily be spread more evenly through the collection. As a for profit business, (one with stiff competition) surely it is in istock's long term best interest to showcase higher quality and newer images in the front of the "store" regardless of who makes them.  Instead they are banishing desirable images to the back because they SELL. 

After all,  Istock is not a communist state with a mandate to engineer who gets sales, it's a capitalist business.  The cream should rise to the top instead of sinking.   
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: crazychristina on December 01, 2008, 14:41
I think the success of the buying gangs about this time last year proves the extent to which success breeds success regardless of quality.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lisafx on December 01, 2008, 14:43
I think the success of the buying gangs about this time last year proves the extent to which success breeds success regardless of quality.

I definitely agree about the buying gangs, but I felt their response at the time (slot system), while not perfect, was a better solution than penalizing good selling images. 
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: crazychristina on December 01, 2008, 14:51
For anyone on this forum not familiar with the buying gangs, here's what happened. Gang member uploads image. All the others immediately buy an XS file. Downloads/month figure for the image is very high. File is placed on first page of best match, and because many buyers are not discriminating, it sells very well, ensuring that it stays on first page and continues to sell well. There were a lot of very ordinary images on the first page of popular searches (Christmas images especially). Many photographers seem reluctant to admit the extent to which luck operates here, but ask yourselves how many great images do you have that never sell because they didn't get that early kick.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lisafx on December 01, 2008, 14:57
Luck may appear to be a big part of it, particularly to exclusives who have no basis for comparison. 

But if you submit to 8 sites and most of the same images do well on all sites, and you see that the same contributors reach pretty much the same rankings on all sites, regardless of different rules, reviewing standards, search engines, etc., then it is pretty clear luck is not a big part of the equation. 
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: cdwheatley on December 01, 2008, 15:03
True the early kick helps, so does the late kick or any kick just so long as there is an oportunity for a kick at some point.

If you submit to multiple sites and the same new/old image sells on all the sites there is good chance it isn't by luck. Those are the images that you hate to see end up on your last page of bestmatch. I agree though that two identical images of a christmas ornament shot on white there might be some luck involved.

I see Lisa beat me to it gonna post it anyway. Need to learn to type faster
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: vonkara on December 01, 2008, 15:11
Recession?

Istock buyers are almost 80% North American people. One person I know is about to lost his job in the plastic industry. I would say that microstock is too cheap to be affected by. But Recession is a state of mind. The medias start yelling about how it will affect everybody lifes. Then people stop buying electronics and everything, in the case the medias are true.

These people are also designers and then they stop buying every images they could need one day. Then they start buying only what they need for their actual projects.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: crazychristina on December 01, 2008, 15:11
OK, point taken. I admit I don't have that overview that you people have, so I'll revise my thinking here.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: epantha on December 01, 2008, 15:12
I never had much of chance to do well at IS (only a few good months) and I'm sure there are many other new contributors, independent and exclusive, who feel as disappointed as me about what has happened with the best match changes. Devastating :'(
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: vlad_the_imp on December 02, 2008, 06:06
I'm an iStock exclusive vector artist. I'm in the top 200 overall contributors, top 50 vectors, and I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with my sales, which have dropped month on month from the beginning of the year, November being my worst month. My faith in the ability of IS management to run the company in a sensible way has become severely dented, the current best match debacle being a good example. If my income continues dropping in the same way over the next 3 months I'll be very seriously considering giving up my exclusivity.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Microbius on December 02, 2008, 06:59
there has been a steady downturn on IStock for months. I think anyone would have to be mad to go exclusive now.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lathspell on December 02, 2008, 07:25
My November 2008 stats compared to November 2007:

portfolio size ~130%
downloads ~25%
royalties ~35%

(and I don't mean -25% or -35% - it's actually only 1/4th and 1/3rd ...)

'nough said.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Yuri_Arcurs on December 02, 2008, 07:50
Hi there Ave,

 The Exclusivity model was changed by Istock. It is a brand new model that restricts you doing other work ( entirely different work ) for any other RF company unless affiliated with Istock. That is the big difference that Istock is implementing and it is a very limiting contract compared to Macro exclusive contracts and how the business has been run for years. Their model is far more limiting to their excusives than stock ever used to be, or even other Micro exclusives for that matter.

AVAVA

VERY VERY TRUE. No other contract I have seen in macro looks like this and I have probably reviewed about 20 or so in detail over the last year. This kind of exclusivity is unheard off.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: tiero on December 02, 2008, 12:36
Down 50% compared October, all my other microstock site are going very well. ;D
And IS's upload is always a pain...
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lisafx on December 02, 2008, 18:52
I'm an iStock exclusive vector artist. I'm in the top 200 overall contributors, top 50 vectors, and I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with my sales, which have dropped month on month from the beginning of the year, November being my worst month. My faith in the ability of IS management to run the company in a sensible way has become severely dented, the current best match debacle being a good example. If my income continues dropping in the same way over the next 3 months I'll be very seriously considering giving up my exclusivity.

It has been really shocking to see how poorly exclusive vector artists have been treated with this latest best match.  I can't imagine why istock would risk losing some of the most popular exclusive artists by not addressing this issue. 
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: GeoPappas on December 02, 2008, 19:03
It has been really shocking to see how poorly exclusive vector artists have been treated with this latest best match.  I can't imagine why istock would risk losing some of the most popular exclusive artists by not addressing this issue. 

When did IS start accepting vectors?

If it is true that the new best match is heavily weighted towards the length of site membership, then it might be possible that this is affecting vector artists more than anything.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: hali on December 02, 2008, 19:43
Recession?

Istock buyers are almost 80% North American people. One person I know is about to lost his job in the plastic industry. I would say that microstock is too cheap to be affected by. But Recession is a state of mind. The medias start yelling about how it will affect everybody lifes. Then people stop buying electronics and everything, in the case the medias are true.

These people are also designers and then they stop buying every images they could need one day. Then they start buying only what they need for their actual projects.

little off topic, but relevant to your statement...
not with electronics, vonkara. ask any chain store electronic salesperson,my roommate is one.
plasma tv, gps, wii, camera,etc.. all still selling. regulars still walk in to buy 500 dollars worth of wii PS2 games, turn around and pick up the new panasonic lumix in pink. all without a blink.
recession? what recession?

yes, as you say, recession is a state of mind. still lots of people with lots of money to spend.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: michaeldb on December 02, 2008, 20:32
It has been really shocking to see how poorly exclusive vector artists have been treated with this latest best match.  I can't imagine why istock would risk losing some of the most popular exclusive artists by not addressing this issue. 

When did IS start accepting vectors?

If it is true that the new best match is heavily weighted towards the length of site membership, then it might be possible that this is affecting vector artists more than anything.

I don't think so. Many vectorists on IS started by first submitting photos and/or 3D renders (this is the way I started). Suddenly one day in mid-October we vectorists, new and old-timers, saw our old slow-selling raster images move to the front of best match search results, and our good selling vectors move to the back.

It is without doubt that the new BMs greatly discriminate against vector illustrations. Early on,  an admin posted in the Illustrator Forum that IS did not intend to discriminate against any kind of image format and the situation would be quickly rectified, but it never was.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: bittersweet on December 02, 2008, 21:33
It has been really shocking to see how poorly exclusive vector artists have been treated with this latest best match.  I can't imagine why istock would risk losing some of the most popular exclusive artists by not addressing this issue. 

When did IS start accepting vectors?

If it is true that the new best match is heavily weighted towards the length of site membership, then it might be possible that this is affecting vector artists more than anything.

I believe they have always had vectors. They used to be the cheapest image product on the site (once they started actually charging, that is).

I've heard the length of membership theory, but there are bronze level contributors posting "BME" in the stats thread. There are also vector contributors who have had BME (there is a separate stats thread in the vector forum). There is something definitely wrong here though, but I don't think anyone has been able to pinpoint one factor that is causing it. I think that several factors are working together to create certain negative scenarios in certain portfolios. I also think that is why it has taken so long for them to correct it. They have made numerous small adjustments to the best match since this started, but none have completely corrected the wild swings in some accounts.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: dbvirago on December 05, 2008, 13:19
After being wrong in thinking sales couldn't get any worse, I did some research on a couple of my images there.

My most popular image on IS, has sold 89 times in 13 months (6.8 per month). It last sold on Sept 4. Searching for it using a variety of most releveant keywords, it didn't show up in the first 20 pages of results.

My 2nd most popular, sold 75 times in 23 months (3.3 per). Last sale in August. It also doesn't show in the first 20 pages of results.

Admittedly, this is only 2 images, but to go from 6.8 and 3.3 per month to 0 in 3-4 months, something major changed.

IS went from 18% of my revenue in Feb to 3% last month and 1% MTD.

I will leave my existing port, but don't see any value in continuing to upload there.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: bonus on December 07, 2008, 09:56
Recession?

Istock buyers are almost 80% North American people. One person I know is about to lost his job in the plastic industry. I would say that microstock is too cheap to be affected by. But Recession is a state of mind. The medias start yelling about how it will affect everybody lifes. Then people stop buying electronics and everything, in the case the medias are true.

These people are also designers and then they stop buying every images they could need one day. Then they start buying only what they need for their actual projects.

Why it has not touched other big 6 stocks?
Look, sales on Microstock Poll Resultsas. Only IS down and many months !


Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: lagereek on December 07, 2008, 10:40
Very true! all my other 4 sites are way up, 2 of them up by at least 60%, thats a lot!
Only IS down and well, that was to be expected anyway.
The Getty Hallmark throughout history has always been to leave their acquisitions alone for a year or something ( inducing a sense of safety), then it starts.
Has been the same since early 90s.
Funny?? but we never seem to learn this.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: Norebbo on December 08, 2008, 10:30
The Getty Hallmark throughout history has always been to leave their acquisitions alone for a year or something ( inducing a sense of safety), then it starts.
Has been the same since early 90s.
Funny?? but we never seem to learn this.

Exactly. It's unfortunate to think what Stockxpert might be like by this time next year.  :-[

But yes, I am another non-exclusive istock contributor who's sales have been chopped by 50% since October. Sales are way up on other sites though.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: shank_ali on December 08, 2008, 13:30
I actually had 4 sales this saturday and sunday which is nice and quite a big jump in my account balance when i logged onto istock this evening.A nice XL and L has boosted todays total.Long may it continue.
Title: Re: Istock sales (+) (-) (=) -Poll-
Post by: dbvirago on December 30, 2008, 21:31
After being wrong in thinking sales couldn't get any worse, I did some research on a couple of my images there.

My most popular image on IS, has sold 89 times in 13 months (6.8 per month). It last sold on Sept 4. Searching for it using a variety of most releveant keywords, it didn't show up in the first 20 pages of results.

My 2nd most popular, sold 75 times in 23 months (3.3 per). Last sale in August. It also doesn't show in the first 20 pages of results.

Admittedly, this is only 2 images, but to go from 6.8 and 3.3 per month to 0 in 3-4 months, something major changed.

IS went from 18% of my revenue in Feb to 3% last month and 1% MTD.

I will leave my existing port, but don't see any value in continuing to upload there.


Strange. Based on another thread, I did these same two searches again. My most popular image now shows as #1. My 2nd most popular image, still doesn't show up in first 20 pages.