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Author Topic: Sales have tanked big time  (Read 180570 times)

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« Reply #475 on: October 29, 2011, 16:54 »
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each week keeps getting worse and worse for me... i'm now down about 40% in weekly $ earnings from 'normal'.

could this be from increased competition? I don't see competition talked about to often on here, and was just curious what everyones take on it was.


« Reply #476 on: October 29, 2011, 17:24 »
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For competition to do that the collection would need to have almost doubled in size in a matter of months.
A combination of new collections (that's competition), changed search engine algorithms, deliberate redirection of buyers to other member sites, buyers quitting because they don't like the pricing/search results/whatever and reduced advertising budgets due to the recession is probably the answer

Slovenian

« Reply #477 on: October 29, 2011, 17:57 »
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For competition to do that the collection would need to have almost doubled in size in a matter of months.
A combination of new collections (that's competition), changed search engine algorithms, deliberate redirection of buyers to other member sites, buyers quitting because they don't like the pricing/search results/whatever and reduced advertising budgets due to the recession is probably the answer

+frustrated contributors submitting less, meaning they are not as up to date as some other sites like SS

« Reply #478 on: October 29, 2011, 18:07 »
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sorry folks....but what happened tonight (european night) on istock ? my sales overnight are tanked ! about 80% less than a regular night

Not quite sure but I had a lot more sales for a Friday than normal. I think there is probably some localised best match testing going on - I had a similar experience on Monday night where sales just stopped for 8 hours durring part of the US daytime, but I couldn't see any change in the best match here.

I agree with you, I am sure IS is not only site using search algorithms fine tuned to localized markets based on ROI database datamining and I would not be at all surprised to see them manipulate search algorithms based on payout scales.

The visible analytic's the sites use on the buyer side are getting fatter and more sophisticated every year!

« Reply #479 on: October 29, 2011, 21:02 »
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I think the change was pretty sudden for me sometime halfway through september so I would say it's either something istock has been doing with the best match or otherwise they must have lost some huge contract or a number of big contracts at the same time. If things don't improve in November and early December I will have to start exploring my options, the current relationship is beginning to look unsustainable.

« Reply #480 on: October 29, 2011, 22:14 »
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I think the change was pretty sudden for me sometime halfway through september so I would say it's either something istock has been doing with the best match or otherwise they must have lost some huge contract or a number of big contracts at the same time. If things don't improve in November and early December I will have to start exploring my options, the current relationship is beginning to look unsustainable.

So your concern is about a change over the last 6 weeks? How are your numbers for the year compared to last year Jan-Oct? Full disclosure - summer was good but lower than I expected. However, my Oct sales are up from September and from Oct last year, although I have noticed the best match tweaks every few days.

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #481 on: October 29, 2011, 22:15 »
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I think the change was pretty sudden for me sometime halfway through september so I would say it's either something istock has been doing with the best match or otherwise they must have lost some huge contract or a number of big contracts at the same time. If things don't improve in November and early December I will have to start exploring my options, the current relationship is beginning to look unsustainable.

40% suddenly...brutal. I remember how that felt when it happened to me in 2008, and my volume of sales then would have been absolutely nothing compared to yours. since the shift was sudden in your case, it certainly seems to point to a search change, best match shift or as you said, loss of business somewhere. since you are both a vector artist and photographer, do you mind stating if you've lost sales in both media?

I'm sure I don't have anywhere near your volume of sales, but I've seen very steady and slightly growing dl numbers consistently since the spring. besides some very bad days here and there, during which I inevitably worry about a long best match drought.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 22:18 by SNP »

« Reply #482 on: October 30, 2011, 06:32 »
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I agree with you, I am sure IS is not only site using search algorithms fine tuned to localized markets based on ROI database datamining and I would not be at all surprised to see them manipulate search algorithms based on payout scales.

The visible analytic's the sites use on the buyer side are getting fatter and more sophisticated every year!

If they ever did this it would be an extremely severe breach of trust. Basically you are saying if you are higher up in the payout scale, istock will slow you down and show your files less in a best match search and push files from a contributor on a lower percentage level.

They already have the RC system that allows them to decide how many 40% artist they want to have, by increasing the targets anyway they like, but to then add another "filter"/downgrade via best match would be terrible.

So many people on the team are contributors as well, it would demorailze anyone if best match got abused that way.

It would probably also be very difficult to keep something like this a secret.

No, I just cannot imagine them doing that.

« Reply #483 on: October 30, 2011, 07:54 »
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I agree with you, I am sure IS is not only site using search algorithms fine tuned to localized markets based on ROI database datamining and I would not be at all surprised to see them manipulate search algorithms based on payout scales.

The visible analytic's the sites use on the buyer side are getting fatter and more sophisticated every year!

If they ever did this it would be an extremely severe breach of trust. Basically you are saying if you are higher up in the payout scale, istock will slow you down and show your files less in a best match search and push files from a contributor on a lower percentage level.

They already have the RC system that allows them to decide how many 40% artist they want to have, by increasing the targets anyway they like, but to then add another "filter"/downgrade via best match would be terrible.

So many people on the team are contributors as well, it would demorailze anyone if best match got abused that way.

It would probably also be very difficult to keep something like this a secret.

No, I just cannot imagine them doing that.
No one really knows. A lot of people are seeing a significant drop though. This must be either a drop in overall sales at iStock, or a drop for a significant number of people, a lot of whom seem to be on higher royalty rates. You can see why with the way things have gone in the last 12 months that people might think the worst, particularly when you think about things like how the wording of the agreement was changed to "distributor" from "agent", freeing them (in my opinion at least) of any need for treating all their contributors equally.
I'm not saying they are actually doing anything to boost sales of the content they prefer to sell, just that past performance shows they are capable of doing whatever it takes to maximise their own profits.

« Reply #484 on: October 30, 2011, 08:08 »
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No one really knows. A lot of people are seeing a significant drop though. This must be either a drop in overall sales at iStock, or a drop for a significant number of people, a lot of whom seem to be on higher royalty rates. You can see why with the way things have gone in the last 12 months that people might think the worst, particularly when you think about things like how the wording of the agreement was changed to "distributor" from "agent", freeing them (in my opinion at least) of any need for treating all their contributors equally.
I'm not saying they are actually doing anything to boost sales of the content they prefer to sell, just that past performance shows they are capable of doing whatever it takes to maximise their own profits.

No one really does know but I agree with you. I personally don't believe anything would be out of bounds, as long as their profits improve.

So many people on the team are contributors as well, it would demorailze anyone if best match got abused that way.


It wouldn't demoralize if those contributors were included in the benefits. As far as keeping it a secret, I think the threat of losing their job and meal ticket would serve as a little incentive to keep their mouth shut. No one is going to complain or squeal if they are reaping benefits. And really, they would be in the same boat as us...they might suspect this is going on, but no way to prove. And the people who might actually know for a fact, I am sure, are wrapped up tightly in confidentiality agreements and job loss threats as well.

The problem is, with all the facts that contributors on the forums have gleaned from their own sales figures, this is the only conclusion that one can come to. Do you have another explanation for why things have started happening this way? That's kind of the problem...it's the only rational explanation for why things are happening as they are.

« Reply #485 on: October 30, 2011, 08:23 »
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I agree with you, I am sure IS is not only site using search algorithms fine tuned to localized markets based on ROI database datamining and I would not be at all surprised to see them manipulate search algorithms based on payout scales.

The visible analytic's the sites use on the buyer side are getting fatter and more sophisticated every year!

If they ever did this it would be an extremely severe breach of trust. Basically you are saying if you are higher up in the payout scale, istock will slow you down and show your files less in a best match search and push files from a contributor on a lower percentage level.

They already have the RC system that allows them to decide how many 40% artist they want to have, by increasing the targets anyway they like, but to then add another "filter"/downgrade via best match would be terrible.

So many people on the team are contributors as well, it would demorailze anyone if best match got abused that way.

It would probably also be very difficult to keep something like this a secret.

No, I just cannot imagine them doing that.


-------------------------------------

So few people know how best match works and I think they have the technology to manipulate this data easily with just a few senior people and an IT tech or two.   It really is a question of trust, which I have very little of.  Are they actually doing it?  I've no idea.

lisafx

« Reply #486 on: October 30, 2011, 08:25 »
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I tend to agree with Dave and Cathy.  There is no reason to assume that the search engine is NOT being manipulated to lower the RC levels of the top (most expensive) contributors.   It has been manipulated for years to put the most profitable content in front of buyers.  As for being a huge breach of trust, sure it is, but that's nothing new for Istock.  Remember the canister grandfathering?  And the canisters being unlinked to royalties?  And the royalty rates being slashed for audio, and vectors?  And nobody being forced into the partner program?  And future frauds will not be deducted from contributor balances?  The list of their violations of trust goes on and on.  
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 08:27 by lisafx »

« Reply #487 on: October 30, 2011, 09:12 »
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Yes, I remember the canister grandfathering. You are perfectly right to point that out. Also the dropping of rates, especially on V/A content, cancelling of punctum day etc...

But at this point I still believe it has to do with the amazing drop in sales volume, which is clearly visible with the traffic stats. It is the pink elephant in the room that istock is not talking about.

The October sales thread is coming up, lets see what the results are. I find it very worrying that Nico is reporting such a large drop.

My own sales are steady but on a very low level. I was expecting a strong upswing for xmas, but dont really see it yet. My blue flame xmas bestseller has dropped from the first pages of best match, but it still one of the top 20 files if you search by downloads. But it doesnt look like many people do this. However I still have other files in good positions, so if the customer volume was there it should be happy xmas. Lets see what happens.

My portfolio on Getty is holding up much better although it is tiny and I didnt have time to add much this year. That is why I will make a big focus on Getty next year.

Like everyone here, I just follow the money. If istock drops even more...I am trying not to think about that.

But I am learning video to offer a new type of digital products.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 09:17 by cobalt »

Phadrea

    This user is banned.
« Reply #488 on: October 30, 2011, 09:15 »
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My sales this October have slowed right down the last few days to pathetic. As soon as I get to the end of November I am going to drop the crown and head for greener pastures with a lot of images that will sell well.

The pink elephant in the room has a loud megaphone, disco lights and still they ignore it.

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #489 on: October 30, 2011, 10:09 »
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I tend to agree with Dave and Cathy.  There is no reason to assume that the search engine is NOT being manipulated to lower the RC levels of the top (most expensive) contributors.   It has been manipulated for years to put the most profitable content in front of buyers.  As for being a huge breach of trust, sure it is, but that's nothing new for Istock.  Remember the canister grandfathering?  And the canisters being unlinked to royalties?  And the royalty rates being slashed for audio, and vectors?  And nobody being forced into the partner program?  And future frauds will not be deducted from contributor balances?  The list of their violations of trust goes on and on.  

I mentioned something similar a while back. Based on the current RC model it would be in IS's best financial interest to keep promoting files from lower RC level contributors. Which in effect would most likely negatively affect the upper tier RC people. And there's nothing preventing IS from intentionally throttling back people who are on track for the next RC level. Both would likely put more money per sale in IS's pocket. And increasing profits by any means seems to be their primary goal.

Couple other things I've noticed so far. I actually moved up in search placement pretty much across the board with this latest best match. For one popular category I now have quite a few images on the first page. But my sales after March dropped and after June have ranged from low to flat. So how could my best match results improved overall but sales are flat? Would seem to indicate buyer volume is down.

And the big forth quarter boost Kelly was touting isn't happening so far for me in Oct. Oct is even with Jan which is toward the bottom of both downloads and revenue volume this year.

lagereek

« Reply #490 on: October 30, 2011, 11:33 »
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I tend to agree with Dave and Cathy.  There is no reason to assume that the search engine is NOT being manipulated to lower the RC levels of the top (most expensive) contributors.   It has been manipulated for years to put the most profitable content in front of buyers.  As for being a huge breach of trust, sure it is, but that's nothing new for Istock.  Remember the canister grandfathering?  And the canisters being unlinked to royalties?  And the royalty rates being slashed for audio, and vectors?  And nobody being forced into the partner program?  And future frauds will not be deducted from contributor balances?  The list of their violations of trust goes on and on.  

Ah no! youre kidding, they wouldnt do such a thing?  would they? :o they are supposed to be religious people, arent they ::)

« Reply #491 on: October 30, 2011, 11:58 »
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I am a low canister level, and there is no bump up here. My sales have dropped by percentages approx. equal the the big players.
If it were not for a small handful of Getty sales the last couple of months, I would not have even reached a payout in either Sept. or Oct.
Contrast that with the previous year where I sometimes reached two payouts per month and on one rare month made four.

While I don't dismiss the possibility that manipulation is going on, I don't see it. I am inclined to believe that the buyers are just going elsewhere.

Slovenian

« Reply #492 on: October 30, 2011, 12:03 »
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I am a low canister level, and there is no bump up here. My sales have dropped by percentages approx. equal the the big players.
If it were not for a small handful of Getty sales the last couple of months, I would not have even reached a payout in either Sept. or Oct.
Contrast that with the previous year where I sometimes reached two payouts per month and on one rare month made four.

While I don't dismiss the possibility that manipulation is going on, I don't see it. I am inclined to believe that the buyers are just going elsewhere.

+1

« Reply #493 on: October 30, 2011, 12:54 »
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I'm only just over the 17% redeemed credits level.  It would be impossible for me to reach the 18% level but my sales have still tanked.  I don't think they are manipulating the best match to stop people reaching the next RC level, its just a lousy best match and a lot of buyers seem to of gone elsewhere.

« Reply #494 on: October 30, 2011, 15:49 »
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... I think they have the technology to manipulate this data easily with just a few senior people and an IT tech or two.   It really is a question of trust, which I have very little of.  Are they actually doing it?  I've no idea.

I think the conspiracy theorists are granting Istock's development team with way too much credit. If they were trying to manipulate the search results for their own benefit we would know about it because the entire search facility would have been broken for weeks.

Sales have tanked because buyers are choosing to do their shopping elsewhere. Pretty much all the internet traffic indicators prove that to be the case. Considering how Istock have treated both their customers and their contributors over the last couple of years it would only be surprising if sales were not tanking. Istock miscalculated that their growth would carry on forever. Expensive mistake. Greed, impatience and lies have done for them. That's all there is to it and there is no probably route back to the 'good times'. The only question now is at what level will sales at Istock stabilise.

tee

« Reply #495 on: November 02, 2011, 16:17 »
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Might as well pile on here. October was the worst month in earnings for me since December 2008, and the worst month in number of downloads since April 2007. My first photos were posted in MARCH 2007! People have said it before and now I'll say it - this crown is getting heavy. At this point it's Vetta keeping me around, but that's about it, and I don't know for how much longer.

« Reply #496 on: November 02, 2011, 17:32 »
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... I think they have the technology to manipulate this data easily with just a few senior people and an IT tech or two.   It really is a question of trust, which I have very little of.  Are they actually doing it?  I've no idea.

I think the conspiracy theorists are granting Istock's development team with way too much credit. If they were trying to manipulate the search results for their own benefit we would know about it because the entire search facility would have been broken for weeks.

Sales have tanked because buyers are choosing to do their shopping elsewhere. Pretty much all the internet traffic indicators prove that to be the case. Considering how Istock have treated both their customers and their contributors over the last couple of years it would only be surprising if sales were not tanking. Istock miscalculated that their growth would carry on forever. Expensive mistake. Greed, impatience and lies have done for them. That's all there is to it and there is no probably route back to the 'good times'. The only question now is at what level will sales at Istock stabilise.

LOL

Kinda like SS's

Thanks for the laugh, you do have a point!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 17:39 by gbalex »

helix7

« Reply #497 on: November 02, 2011, 21:12 »
0
...If things don't improve in November and early December I will have to start exploring my options...

Please don't. I'd rather not see your vectors showing up at other sites.

;)

« Reply #498 on: November 03, 2011, 00:08 »
0
You're winking .... but we're all coming.  Soon.    ;)

« Reply #499 on: November 03, 2011, 00:14 »
0
You're winking .... but we're all coming.  Soon.    ;)

Bring it on! ...Oh, but please sign up with me as a referral.  ;)


 

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